View Full Version : Crashed last night :(
Coming home from work and riding in a bus lane when a car appeared from no where between traffic and boom... off in come. Fractured my left wrist and left forearm :(
Think the bike will be a complete write off in all honesty as it then proceeded to hit a kerb and metal bollard. Off top of my head the Clutch case has a massive hole in it, Left wing mirror is missing, both foot pegs came off, Gear selector Is pretty much straight all fairings scratched and cracked....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/woogieuk/IMG-20130419-WA0009_zps0c87cff3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/woogieuk/media/IMG-20130419-WA0009_zps0c87cff3.jpg.html)
Thankfully I had my helmet cam on so recorded it all :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtspvtZjPqY&feature=youtu.be
Blimey hope you are ok. Gd luck about the helmet cam. Get well soon!
Geodude
20-04-13, 04:10 PM
Ouch GWS
andrewsmith
20-04-13, 04:18 PM
Ouch gas
Make sure you send a copy to the insurance
sent from a weapon of mass distraction
kiggles
20-04-13, 04:19 PM
OUCH. hope you get it all sorted. Hardest part is not going to be riding for a while because of your injuries. Hope you get well soon. Watched video several times and still makes me cringe every time.
Pricey12
20-04-13, 04:40 PM
Bloody hell, video made me wince :( Hope you heal up soon and get everything sorted.
Trickster2445
20-04-13, 04:46 PM
If its a write off do NOT accept any offers on buy back or pay out before you pm me your reg. I work in the insurance industry and will do my best to get you more.
Ricky
ethariel
20-04-13, 04:54 PM
Damn, that was unlucky! GWS (btw, nice lass that ran over, u get her number? lol)
Fallout
20-04-13, 05:11 PM
Holy moly mate. I was expecting to see something that could make you to blame, but really that could've happened to anybody. Perhaps a bit fast? Perhaps you could've been more left if someone was to pick holes. But in any case, I could easily see myself in that situation, so I don't think you couldve done much to improve your safety.The car driver had enough visibility to see you and was just an absolute muppet.
On the plus side the woman who came to your rescue looked quite tidy. Did you get her number? :D
I watched the video a few times, holy **** that makes me cringe!
Hope you have a speedy recovery, all the best!
Did you get the girls number? She looked pretty good...
Oh, unlucky about the crash too ;)
Holy moly mate. I was expecting to see something that could make you to blame, but really that could've happened to anybody. Perhaps a bit fast? Perhaps you could've been more left if someone was to pick holes. But in any case, I could easily see myself in that situation, so I don't think you couldve done much to improve your safety.The car driver had enough visibility to see you and was just an absolute muppet.
On the plus side the woman who came to your rescue looked quite tidy. Did you get her number? :D
Damn, didn't see this!
Teejayexc
20-04-13, 05:18 PM
Ouch. Never like the idea of riding in bus lanes. More often than not you're travelling faster on the inside lane than t'other traffic with the added hazards of being blind to traffic turning right from the other direction.
Hope you heal quickly.
RobbieSV
20-04-13, 05:33 PM
That sucks mate, looks like Holloway road? I go up there all the time, could easily have been me.
Get well soon.
Oh, and as already mentioned, tasty girl :)
Really sorry to hear this :(
It's for this reason I've just bought a helmet cam, been trying it out today.
I'm always very untrusting of gaps in traffic especially in bus lanes at side turnings for that reason, and so tend to crawl past them.
Get well soon, consider any offer carefully before accepting it, and here's hoping all's well shortly!
Jambo
Sent from my thingie
Dave20046
20-04-13, 05:40 PM
Where the hell was he going?
I thought he was going to go down the road slightly to his right but appeared to steer left as if to go the wrong way down the road or onto the pavement. Unless he abandoned whatever he was doing as he saw you...
GWS! With that footage, atleast you don't have to worry about the claim too much while you mend.
kiggles
20-04-13, 06:08 PM
"not my accident. But happened to someone else last night. People in britain can not drive for ****.
Woogie's Accident
www.youtube.com
Car pulled out as I was passing. Bike is pretty trashed and I fractured my left wrist and left forearm
Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · Promote
Dominic Rossetti the bike was undertaking.
about an hour ago · Like
Simon King Was just about to say the same thing... At speed and have the other driver no time to look. Your just another biker who thinks you own the road.
59 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1
Dominic Rossetti Completely agree with that statement
54 minutes ago · Like
Kevin Daglish Incorrect. Its a bus lane. There is two lanes which merge and the left lane becomes a bus lane. THE BUS LANE IS FOR BUS'S AND MOTORCYCLES.
look at 0.16-0.17. The blue sign on the left shows its for bus's, cyclists and motorcyclists. ITS A TWO LANE ROAD. Its not undertaking when you are in a designated lane!
you just proven peoples ignorance, congratulations. Go back and pass your driving test
2 minutes ago · Edited · Like"
I posted your video on facebook to show other people what to look out for. Look at the response I got. Feel free to spam these people with what ever crap you want. Im pretty angry right now about it.
kiggles
20-04-13, 06:23 PM
please someone back me up here? welcome to add me on facebook. Are they right he is undertaking? Is he breaking the speed limit?
kevin daglish
When you are stuck in traffic, are all those buses undertaking? Don't think so!
Sorry to hear about the off! hopefully it will be a nice clearcut case and will get a good payout!
Holy mtoexpecting to see something that could make you to blame, but really that could've happened to anybody. Perhaps a bit fast? Perhaps you could've been more left if someone was to pick holes. But in any case, I could easily see myself in that situation, so I don't think you couldve done much to improve your safety.The car driver had enough visibility to see you and was just an absolute muppet.
On the plus side the woman who came to your rescue looked quite tidy. Did you get her number? :D
I thought this as well that maybe I could have been going flower but I had just reached 30 st that point but still could have been slower. If you watch the video I swerve to get left, any further over and I'd have still gave come off as I'd have hit the kerb or metal bollard.
Didn't get her number as the gf wouldn't appreciate that lol
I've not posted video direct to my Facebook yet but no one has of yet told made me feel like an idiot and it was my fault so quite shocking to see that :-(
Videos are deceiving in terms of speed. It looks like you are doing the speed limit, riding safely/considerately and giving yourself & other road users room. Hope you make a speedy recovery.
It was certainly not your fault. I would have been riding the same. Damn cagers!
please someone back me up here? welcome to add me on facebook. Are they right he is undertaking? Is he breaking the speed limit?
kevin daglish
If you look at the video, the bus lane ends before the pedestrian crossing, and there isn't 2 lanes marked out on the road. Think it is more up to your interpretation of the situation and how you would read the road when riding it.
Personally i wouldn't be travelling at 30mph down the inside of stopped vehicles. Lots of hazards around-pedestrians crossing, cyclists and the approaching junction.
rictus01
20-04-13, 07:46 PM
Not having a go or any thing but this type of thing happens all the time, it's easy to just blame others driving, but that's not to say you can't improve your own odds of completing your journey.
Now playing devils advocate....
whilst "fault" is in little doubt, being legally in the right doesn't stop injuries, a few things you clearly missed here, since the opening of bus lanes this type of incident has become more prolific, firstly on your video; at 0.24 you approach the rear quarter of a panel van, you can't see through it (first warning to slow), there is a turning on the left adjacent to the front of that van (second warning to slow), safety bollards are placed on the junction corners, indicating accidents have happened there before (third warning to slow down), between the front of the van and the car ahead; is enough gap to squeeze a car through (foruth warning to slow down), and of course traveling on the left of traffic requires greater care at anytime.
having say that, hope you recover as soon as possible and don't get dicked about too much through process.
Cheers Mark.
Probably would have got me too. By the way, what camera is that?
GWS
Ouch, sorry to hear this and hope you made a speedy recovery. Get back on two wheels as quick as possible as the longer you put it off, the harder it will be to get your confidence back.
I'm going to play devils advocate and say I think you were going too fast for the road conditions. Although it's certainly not your fault, It could have perhaps been avoided to an extent. I certainly wouldn't have been travelling any faster than 5-10mph over what the vehicles either side is.
Although it's conjecture as you could have hit it head on if you'd have been going just a little bit slower rather than being swiped off. You'd have had to be going a lot slower to have avoided it altogether.
Good luck in getting better and back up, that's the main thing.
madnlooney
20-04-13, 08:33 PM
GWS, this is why i dont travel in bus lanes if i can avoid them in traffic. When in them i feel im not seen too well by people either coming in or out of the side roads plus people think the traffic has all stopped and edge in like that car did, i think they would of seen a bus due to the height of them but didnt see you without edging in as they did
that video made me wince too, the camera helps show your side of things, Id really like to get one too with the amount of near misses I seem to have on a daily basis, what camera is it?
Oh and get well soon ;-)
Lee
21QUEST
20-04-13, 09:04 PM
Sorry to hear about your accident and wish you a full recovery.
Regards if the accident was avoidable, I'd say "it was".
Speed seems higher than would have been advisable, coupled with not very good observation.
I see similar situations all the time and have lost count of the number of accidents I've prevented various two wheeled and four wheeled vehicles from having.
Things of note are, the gap in front of the van, side street on the left and your positioning.
Bluepete
20-04-13, 09:07 PM
From the point of view of a guy who deals with these events, has the benefit of a huge amount of training and a massive sense of self preservation, I'll make the following statement.
You approached the junction to the left with a gap in the traffic to your right with little consideration that a car MAY turn across your path. You had no view into the gap that the car appeared from because of the traffic in that queue. Equally, the car driver couldn't have seen you until a nanosecond before the collision due to the same obstruction to his view.
Whilst the collision wasn't your fault, your riding was contributory. You didn't leave that margin for error that keeps bikers alive.
Just my POV.
Pete
you were going way to fast on the inside for that amount of traffic in a built up area.. i seen the gap/junction and gaps with junctions mean other vehicles crossing your path.
bad luck. next time open your eyes and slow down. if that car had been a pedestrian you would have killed them.
21QUEST
20-04-13, 09:31 PM
Also, from what I can make out, there wasn't a bus lane at the point the incident occured...you were just undertaking...
With that in mind, I'm not sure if the video would actually count in your favour. You could roll the dice and get a 'muppet' working on behalf of the third party but any person/firm worth something should spot the obvious and be able to argue 'shared fault'....
You are very possibly going to need quite a bit of luck for it to go 100% in your favour.
"oooffft!"
Sorry to hear/see your off, at least you're mostly in one piece.
Dont take the comments to heart, learn from them, accidents happen, some are more avoidable than others. We just need to do our best to prevent them. Your ego will be as bruised as your arm just shortly!
GWS
otaylor38
20-04-13, 11:12 PM
Hmm nasty. Hope your wounds heal quickly
From your point of view, your just riding along in a bus lane at the speed limit. However, if i was driving that focus, i think id be struggling to see aswel. You werent exactly going slow and he does have the length of his bonnet sticking out before he can see.
Im not saying its anyones fault but i dont think your speed and road positioning helped.
I just feel its unfair to blame the focus driver that was trying to slowly edge out, what else was he supposed to do?
Hope i dont offend anyone or spark an arguement, just my view.
Cheers
Oli
Rogue_Shadow
20-04-13, 11:47 PM
Get well soon buddy
Skybaba
21-04-13, 12:38 AM
if that car had been a pedestrian you would have killed them.
A similar thing happened right in front of me just after my CBT (I hired a 125 for a week).
I was on the A13 road in London and was in the bus lane riding a bit cautiously (I'd been T-Boned 6 days earlier). Another bike rode past me and crashed into a pedestrian who appeared suddenly from behind the stationary cars in traffic while trying to cross.
The pedestrian was knocked off his feet flying high........the biker didn't stop; instead he sped off!!
Skybaba
21-04-13, 12:45 AM
Forgot to say Get Well Soon.
That sucks mate, looks like Holloway road? I go up there all the time, could easily have been me.
Get well soon.
Oh, and as already mentioned, tasty girl :)
Spot on, Opposite the gulf garage
I agree I probably should have been going slower I agree and is one of the things I have mentioned to Police, Paramedics and my insurance but from when I saw the car to when I hit it seems vastly longer in the video and I can guarantee id have hit it even doing half the speed I was, maybe not as bad but there would still have been a collision.
Camera is a Drift HD.
As for the comments on a bus lane not being there where I was, The bus lane actually starts at 12 seconds then the markings disappear for the junction and the turn but is still a double width road and a bus lane.
Thanks all for the GWS messages finding it incredibly awkward with only 1 arm\hand but surprisingly the insurance compamy have offered me a hire bike despite the fact i cannot ride it lol.
aesmith
21-04-13, 07:12 AM
That's what I thought re the bus lane - bus lane continues but there's a gap to allow traffic into the side road. A bus would continue as you did.
Biker Biggles
21-04-13, 07:21 AM
That looks 100% liability to the car to me.You had right of way and the car crossed against that.Having said that I would treat it as a huge learning event and think long and hard about what happened and why.
littleoldman2
21-04-13, 07:43 AM
GWS
I just feel its unfair to blame the focus driver that was trying to slowly edge out, what else was he supposed to do?
li
Wait
savage86
21-04-13, 07:43 AM
Show it to your own solicitor first they should be able to made the call whether the video is in your favour or not. Hope your all good and on the mend.
Personally (and im not just saying this because I hit him) but if I was the focus driver I would have waited for the first van to move first and then edged out slightly, especially in London (or any other big city) due to the sheer volume of cyclists and motorbikes that are riding around.
Show it to your own solicitor first they should be able to made the call whether the video is in your favour or not. Hope your all good and on the mend.
Why? It is evidence in a crash investigation, If it helps the focus driver then good, if it helps me even better. I cannot expect to ride around with a helmet cam and hide it if it shows something slightly damning towards myself.
littleoldman2
21-04-13, 08:00 AM
For how long ?
Until it's safe. How long is a life worth.
otaylor38
21-04-13, 08:07 AM
Until it's safe. How long is a life worth.
Sorry mate, but i disagree. Have you driven a car? The guys sat behind the length of a bonnet, he needs to edge out slowly to see if its safe.
If he sat further back, he wouldnt be able to see anything, and could possibly be sat there forever non the wiser of whether its safe or not. He wasnt to know a bike was going to come teararsing down the lane close up to the stationary traffic.
littleoldman2
21-04-13, 08:20 AM
I have driven a car since 1981 and so far have not had an accident due to impatience. The length of the bonnet is the reason he should have waited as you state he COULD NOT SEE where or what he was driving into.
I'd agree that it would be very difficult for the driver of the car to see properly. I don't know how many people on here drive cars as well, but as the owner of a MG ZT, I can safely say it's extremely difficult/impossible to see when you've 3-4 feet of bonnet in front of you and the only option you've got is to edge out very slowly so that it gives time for people to react to your presence until you are able to see yourself. I would however say that the car drive wasn't edging out slowly, but simply crossing the road at a normal speed without any thought to something being in the lane.
If I was dealing with this claim I'd certainly say it was a 50/50 claim on the basis that the motorcycle rider was riding too quickly and not giving him/herself any chance should something cross the path, and the car driver for not slowly edging out through stationary traffic and crossing a lane which could have moving traffic in.
For the time being though, concentrate on getting yourself well and give yourself plenty of time to digest what's happened. When you're back up to full strength, have another look at the video and ask yourself what you could have done differently, what actions you could have taken which could have prevented this happening and use it as a tool to improve your riding rather than something to show your mates.
aesmith
21-04-13, 08:40 AM
I would however say that the car drive wasn't edging out slowly, but simply crossing the road at a normal speed without any thought to something being in the lane.
Probably wasn't expecting anything smaller than a bus.
Reminds me of one of my first driving lessons. Stopped at a junction the instructor asked what am I looking out for ... "oncoming traffic". No he said, you're looking for a clear road, if you can't see that then you can't tell its safe. The car driver could see there was no bus, but couldn't see and didn't check that the lane was clear.
GWS mate, **** situation.
At least you have the driver, my first off the f*cker didn't stop!
Regards to a hire vehicle, you can request a car if you are unable to ride a bike. I did that last time as I broke my hand am had it in a cast. As long as you have a car licence and declare the injuries/casts etc to them when requesting the car instead of bike and your doc says you are fit to drive, no worries!
I can't see how the car driver isn't to 'blame', your riding might have been contributory, I don't know, but in the same situation as the car driver, I was always taught to peep and creep forward until the view is clear. Not blast out and hope for the best.
Thanks for sharing the video though, hopefully it will prompt me to improve my observations and awareness.
Jackie_Black
21-04-13, 09:39 AM
Looks nasty, get well soon.
Looks like a nasty hit. Hope you heal up quick and get back on a bike.
This is why I always where a helmet cam, even when popping to the shops as you never know when something could happen.
a_monkey_hint
21-04-13, 11:01 AM
Ouch! Looks like a nasty fall - hope you recover quickly.
As others have said, the driver is at fault, but you definitely missed a number of observations that could made the situation avoidable.
And now for a bit of damage
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/woogieuk/IMG-20130421-WA0006_zps4db2740f.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/woogieuk/media/IMG-20130421-WA0006_zps4db2740f.jpg.html)
Hole in side of bike.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/woogieuk/IMG-20130421-WA0007_zps0267ee6c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/woogieuk/media/IMG-20130421-WA0007_zps0267ee6c.jpg.html)
Left side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/woogieuk/IMG-20130421-WA0010_zps18d556f9.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/woogieuk/media/IMG-20130421-WA0010_zps18d556f9.jpg.html)
Dash
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/woogieuk/IMG-20130421-WA0012_zpsde985bbb.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/woogieuk/media/IMG-20130421-WA0012_zpsde985bbb.jpg.html)
Front left
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/woogieuk/IMG-20130421-WA0011_zpsa46cfcb2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/woogieuk/media/IMG-20130421-WA0011_zpsa46cfcb2.jpg.html)
otaylor38
21-04-13, 01:51 PM
Pretty sure your correct in saying its a right off lol
andrewsmith
21-04-13, 01:56 PM
Cat c buy looks, engine looks toast unless there is a tip over switch
sent from a weapon of mass distraction
Sorry to hear about your crash buddy, think you are quite lucky with all the road furniture around the city that you could have hit.
Well done with the video evidence, so better than a load of witness statements from idiots.
Don't put all your focus on blame etc, that will be decided for you by the insurance companies. Just get healed up, do your physio exercises and get back in the saddle.
WeegieBlue
21-04-13, 07:44 PM
I used to work in motor insurance claims and can tell you the following:
1. Speed cannot be used as a factor unless it is supported by evidence (speed camera reading, police investigation etc) so it is very unlikely the other driver can use this in their argument.
2. You were travelling legally in your lane. It is the responsibility of the person carrying out the manoeuvre to ensure the way is clear, which it wasn't.
3. If I was presented with this case, I would find in favour of the motorcycle rider. The car failed to ensure the way was clear prior to carrying out a manoeuvre and struck a vehicle that was making progress in a designated lane, passing stationery traffic as it went.
Now as a rider, I would say you we're travelling a bit quickly for the situation and if it were me I'd take 30% of the speed off and also slow down at the junction. The law doesn't say you have to, and no insurance company can claim your riding was reckless, however if this had been a bit more serious would you be wanting to win your claim when you were severely injured, or god forbid worse?
yorkie_chris
21-04-13, 09:15 PM
That looks 100% liability to the car to me.You had right of way and the car crossed against that.Having said that I would treat it as a huge learning event and think long and hard about what happened and why.
Yeah that sounds about right.
You can't get away with that sort of maneuver (tear *rsing up the inside) and get away with it forever... sh*t happens... least it was only a kawa though ey.
My personal thing is to beware gaps in traffic, they attract cars to try and chance it when frustrated with queuing like flies to ****. Pedestrians I don't much mind, from past experience I've got about an even money chance of hitting them and staying on.
In this case all clues were there which you didn't seem to react to in the way that I would. A bit blase about traffic from riding in the smoke compared to us more rural lot maybe?
Other thing is, it might not be such a good idea to show the insurance company the video!!
Edit:
Hope you are back on soon and it gets sorted out, don't mean to tear a stripe off you or owt!
Im a bit confused about why so many people think he was hooning down the road? Maybe it was a bit over what was safe, but not over what was legal. Yes there are various things he could have done to lessen or prevent the accident but the matter of fact is that the accident was not caused by him. Just because you could have been riding differently does not mean to say there is a 50/50 liability, thats rubbish. I appreciate the car had a crap view, but perhaps if they had inched out, woogie would have seen this and slowed accordingly.
yorkie_chris
21-04-13, 09:42 PM
Im a bit confused about why so many people think he was hooning down the road? Maybe it was a bit over what was safe, but not over what was legal. Yes there are various things he could have done to lessen or prevent the accident but the matter of fact is that the accident was not caused by him. Just because you could have been riding differently does not mean to say there is a 50/50 liability, thats rubbish. I appreciate the car had a crap view, but perhaps if they had inched out, woogie would have seen this and slowed accordingly.
Who is suggesting 50/50 liability? I don't see anyone.
I think people are suggesting that some differences could have avoided it. The reason I point them out is so other people who might have only been riding 2 minutes might benefit from them... rather than to pussyfoot around and not offend anyone.
When I ride... I try and avoid getting knocked off.
otaylor38
21-04-13, 09:47 PM
Just because his speed could be seen as too fast given the amount of hazards around him. Also his positioning left him a little vulnerable.
Never the less. Things happen. The op isnt seriously injured and thats the main thing. The rest is up to the insurance companies i suppose.
I agree with a previous post though. I wouldnt show the insurance company this. Id just say you were riding along within the speed limit when the car unexpectedly pulled out on you leaving u no time to brake or swerve
otaylor38
21-04-13, 09:48 PM
When I ride... I try and avoid getting knocked off.
You and me both mate haha
If I was dealing with this claim I'd certainly say it was a 50/50 claim on the basis that the motorcycle rider was riding too quickly and not giving him/herself any chance should something cross the path, and the car driver for not slowly edging out through stationary traffic and crossing a lane which could have moving traffic in.
And another post that suugested he would need alot of luck for it to go 100% to him.
I agree with alot of the comments on the riding but perhaps some of them could have come across better is all. Im fortunate to not have come off (yet) but if i did, i dont think people telling me off for my riding before ive even had a chance to get over the accident would be very pleasant. Of course you could argue if you didnt want that opinion, not to post it online, which is fair enough.
But alas, rant over. GWS!:)
Spank86
21-04-13, 10:14 PM
please someone back me up here? welcome to add me on facebook. Are they right he is undertaking? Is he breaking the speed limit?
kevin daglish
Breaking the speed limit? I've hit the floor on a push bike at 20mph and you tend to slide, it looks quick on camera but he didn't slide or travel far when he hit the ground so I'd say slower than it looks so within the speed limit.
Maybe it was a bit over what was safe, but not over what was legal.
Not necessarily.
The "speed limit" is the absolute maximum upper speed the road should be travelled on in optimum conditions, it could be argues that there are a lot of occasions where going at speeds below but close to the speed limit are not legal as they represent (at the least) driving without due care and attention.
Not suggesting this was one of them just pointing out that "below the speed limit" is not such an iron clad defence as some see to think.
I know people who've been fined despite going slower than the speed limit after having an accident because the police considered that they were still too fast for the conditions.
Fair enough, hadnt thought of it that in depth. Interesting to know that the rozzers have done that too.
Spank86
21-04-13, 10:24 PM
Sorry to get all technical on ya, just something I wanted to make sure people were aware of. Luckily the police often feel you've learnt your lesson with the expense of the crash but that probably wouldn't stop them if they were quota filling (plus I had this convo with fallout earlier and he took the same stance you did so its obviously a widely held belief).
Until it's safe. How long is a life worth.
In London that would be about 29 days after the zombie apocalypse
I'm curious as to why people are saying I shouldn't give this to my insurers as that is why I got the camera in the first place
otaylor38
22-04-13, 06:48 AM
Not tryin to pee you off here, but some small things in the vid (your speed given the hazards and situation, and road positioning) may make the insurers question that the driver wasnt 100% at fault.
Just think you might be more likely to win your case without it.
Spank86
22-04-13, 07:31 AM
I'm curious as to why people are saying I shouldn't give this to my insurers as that is why I got the camera in the first place
A 50/50 decision helps no one except the insurance companies.
Unless you get full fault one way or the other you both lose your no claims bonus.
If the video establishes contributory negligence (if, that's just what others are suggesting, I don't know) it won't help the driver, just his insurance company.
aesmith
22-04-13, 07:41 AM
I know people who've been fined despite going slower than the speed limit after having an accident because the police considered that they were still too fast for the conditions.
What was the offence in those cases?
aesmith
22-04-13, 07:42 AM
I'm curious as to why people are saying I shouldn't give this to my insurers as that is why I got the camera in the first place
Is the other driver trying to dispute what happened? If not then there's no need to rock the boat. Is the lovely lady a witness?
Is the other driver trying to dispute what happened? If not then there's no need to rock the boat. Is the lovely lady a witness?
No idea as her insurance company were closed till today apparently and the police never told me who was\wasn't a witness although they did tell my insurance company it was on camera :(
Spank86
22-04-13, 08:04 AM
What was the offence in those cases?
Due care and attention.
Don't know anyone yet where it's been dangerous driving BUT they were on country roads, loss of control on a bend.
If the road is wet the police will suggest that possibly the 50mph or NSL was a little high to be using as a target. You may say that's different but its not, it's the principle of going too fast fr the conditions be it other road users, pedestrians, weather, or reasonably noticeable/predictable debris.
Spank86
22-04-13, 08:05 AM
No idea as her insurance company were closed till today apparently and the police never told me who was\wasn't a witness although they did tell my insurance company it was on camera :(
Shame it got corrupted in the accident then.
:confused:
Possibly, I mean it might have done, you should check yourself and see if it seems corrupted.
Biker Biggles
22-04-13, 08:08 AM
I would get on to White Dalton and take their advice on all of it.Give them the vid.
Dicky Ticker
22-04-13, 08:30 AM
You claim you were riding in a bus lane which is authorised for motorbike use but from what I can see on your video you have left the bus lane and overtaking stationary traffic in the inside at a road junction which is not part of the bus lane. The bus lane has stopped and restarts at the other side of the junction. Regarding speed you do not seem to have slowed down on the approach to the junction and due to the white panel van your vision was obstructed as much as the car drivers. The panel van had left space for traffic to turn right which to me means that turning traffic is a possibility. Taking it that is a regular commute for you I would have expected you to have experience of vehicles turning at the junctions and slowed down for the junctions.
Be careful in using your video as evidence as in my opinion it does not completely exonerate you and a good defence lawyer will pick out the same points as I have made.
Having said the above the car still turned right across your direction of travel when they should have given way.
granty92
22-04-13, 08:42 AM
ah man hope you are ok, hate things like this :(
Spank86
22-04-13, 08:44 AM
You claim you were riding in a bus lane which is authorised for motorbike use but from what I can see on your video you have left the bus lane and overtaking stationary traffic in the inside at a road junction which is not part of the bus lane.
Which is still permissible (in a general sense at least)
The speed is the only thing that could be an issue but its very hard to tell from the video those wide angle lenses always make things seem faster.
Roberrrrt
22-04-13, 08:50 AM
GWS mate, **** situation.
At least you have the driver, my first off the f*cker didn't stop!
Regards to a hire vehicle, you can request a car if you are unable to ride a bike. I did that last time as I broke my hand am had it in a cast. As long as you have a car licence and declare the injuries/casts etc to them when requesting the car instead of bike and your doc says you are fit to drive, no worries!
Yeah just make sure you get signed off as fit to drive, because when my hand was broken in an off last year I wasn't allowed a car - even if doc said it was OK, insurers were of the view that you were impaired and as such insurance wasn't valid - double check!!
Dicky Ticker
22-04-13, 09:00 AM
Granted it is permissible but my point being as it is a road junction and restricted visibility was sufficient care exercised by both parties involved.
Nobody has to take heed of the points I have raised but IF I was the car driver I would be using them as my defence.
The OP has my sympathy but I can't agree to them being 100% faultless, even if it boils down to lack of observation and speed
Spank86
22-04-13, 09:27 AM
I thought you were suggesting it made a difference to the OP's overtaking.
The junction means he should have been cautious but whether its a bus lane or not the overtaking on the inside is ok, it's just the speed that's questionable IMHO anyway.
Owenski
22-04-13, 09:40 AM
Just seeing this now Woogie, hope you're ok mate and heal up sharpish.
You dont need to hear another opinion on the event so all I offer is that you were 5hit out of luck on the day. Concentrate on the healing and speak to some of the org experts (bluepete) and ignore the opinionists they'll confuse and falsely encourage you.
Chin up, keep well.
If its a write off do NOT accept any offers on buy back or pay out before you pm me your reg. I work in the insurance industry and will do my best to get you more.
Ricky
LIKE :thumbsup:
Littlepeahead
22-04-13, 09:43 AM
Just out of interest, the driver of the van to your right had left a gap so that traffic had space to turn into the side road that was on his left. He may have waved the driver of the car that you collided with across.
I very nearly got hit when I was in the outside lane with stationery traffic to my left, but luckily I wasn't going very fast. The driver to my left had left a space so traffic could leave a forecourt, and then the driver coming in the opposite direction flashed a car out of the forecourt as he hadn't seen me coming along in the outside lane. Luckily I saw the drive flash his lights and realised he was giving someone the ok to pull straight out in front of me.
Quite easily in your situation that van might have waved or flashed at the focus and travelling at the speed you were, even if the van driver had first checked his mirror to look for a bus, he may still not have seen you as you'd have been approaching very fast.
I no longer ride in the bus lanes in London after a 4x4 turned left from the car lane to my right without either checking his mirrors or indicating. Scary moment as I nearly went into his passenger door. Drivers just aren't looking for motorcycles in bus lanes. Plus every van driver who parks in there unloading seems to be on a mission to open their doors onto you.
But wishing you a speedy recovery. Find a good physio!
Dicky Ticker
22-04-13, 11:10 AM
Spank,There is a difference between overtaking and undertaking and undertaking is not always legal. Filtering is a form of undertaking, permissible but with caution, and can constitute an offence in certain circumstances.
I have only stated facts as seen on the video and do not consider myself a qualified accident investigator but an ex police officer.
TheRamJam
22-04-13, 01:29 PM
Man that sucks
GWS mate :-)
I have watched this over and over. It could have easily happened to me. Remember to tell us how this ended with insurance, untill then I will be watching long and hard for side roads when driving up on the inside of traffic.
davepreston
22-04-13, 01:56 PM
so heres the long and short of it
who's fault in the view of the law was it - the car driver
how much should you settle for - everything you can get 100% non fault
could you have mitagated this incident - yes with better observation, road positioning and less speed due to conditions
is you video damming of you or the driver - imho both they did wrong but so did you
do we care that you were hurt - yes and we ALL hope you make a speedy recovery
what can you take from this - a lesson, and put that lesson into practise for every ride here on out
in sumation - it looked sore im sure it was sore , be thankful your alive, learn for this and for god sake dont start crashing as much as me
HTH
DP
The main thing here is definatley the lessons we can learn. It has made me take a look at how I use bus lanes, filtering and certainly to look out for the potential hazards - brings me back to the theory test and actually why its a good addition (although a flawed computer program)
They are just about to open some of the bus lanes in Brighton to bikes, not so sure I want to use them now, too many potential issues. Does anyone know who would have the right of way in the following example:
Bus Lane and Traffic Lane going in the same direction side by side. Car in the traffic lane wants to turn left and is ahead of a bus in the buslane. Does the car have right of way to turn or does he have to wait for the bus to come past first ?
GWS woogie, no one wants an off in any situation !
davepreston
22-04-13, 02:02 PM
the car would have to wait as it is crossing a designated route (lane) of another vehicle
you are responcible for any manovers you make that cut across another lane, you are the one changing the viariables, so must do so safely
Thought as much, but you see about possible confusion. If cars are not expecting bikes in the bus lane and think they have the right of way etc...
aesmith
22-04-13, 02:29 PM
Spank,There is a difference between overtaking and undertaking and undertaking is not always legal. Filtering is a form of undertaking, permissible but with caution, and can constitute an offence in certain circumstances.
Bus lanes wouldn't serve any purpose if their permitted traffic wasn't allowed to progress when the rest of the carriageway is held up.
Spank86
22-04-13, 02:35 PM
Spank,There is a difference between overtaking and undertaking and undertaking is not always legal. Filtering is a form of undertaking, permissible but with caution, and can constitute an offence in certain circumstances.
I have only stated facts as seen on the video and do not consider myself a qualified accident investigator but an ex police officer.
Oh I know, but In This case he's clearly passing on the left in heavy traffic as outlined and permitted in the Highway Code.
Again it comes down purely to speed.
Spank86
22-04-13, 02:39 PM
. Does anyone know who would have the right of way in the following example:
Bus Lane and Traffic Lane going in the same direction side by side. Car in the traffic lane wants to turn left and is ahead of a bus in the buslane. Does the car have right of way to turn or does he have to wait for the bus to come past first ?
GWS woogie, no one wants an off in any situation !
The bus.
Same as if the bus lane was any other lane.
The "bus lane" is simply a lane of traffic where only certain vehicles are permitted, traffic in it has all the same priorities as if the traffic were in an unrestricted lane Including any that pertain specifically to that type of vehicle.
In this instance you'd be turning across the bus and so blocking its right of way. Probably easiest to imagine that and was a separate parallel road to see the only other occasion this is likely to occur short of someone being in the wrong lane.
One thing is, isn't there a rule where you can move into the bus lane for a few yards prior to turning off a road to prevent this kind of thing?
joshwalker094
22-04-13, 02:45 PM
Damn, that was unlucky! GWS (btw, nice lass that ran over, u get her number? lol)
Plus 1 on that. She was quite fit.
Unlucky btw and gws
aesmith
22-04-13, 03:31 PM
... Does anyone know who would have the right of way in the following example:
Bus Lane and Traffic Lane going in the same direction side by side. Car in the traffic lane wants to turn left and is ahead of a bus in the buslane. Does the car have right of way to turn or does he have to wait for the bus to come past first ?
The bus.
Same as if the bus lane was any other lane. ...
Not sure on that. The car should only be moving over in the gap in the bus lane created for the purpose, not crossing the solid line. At that point it has as much right to that bit of road as the bus does. You could draw an analogy with overtaking. If it was the other way round, you'd expect an overtaking vehicle to give way to a vehicle indicating to turn right.
I think if the car was crossing the solid line then the bus would definitely have at least some right of way, as the car isn't actually allowed there.
Spank86
22-04-13, 03:43 PM
What I mean is if the car pulls into the bus lane then turns right it would be fine assuming they did it with room to spare but if the car turns accross the bus lane then its different and would NOT be correct, same as if you tried to turn right from the left hand lane with cars passing you on your right. Your indicator is a signal of what you would like to do not a god given right to move in that direction.
Just my opinion of course, I haven't delved Into the law books.
yorkie_chris
22-04-13, 03:48 PM
Your indicator is a signal of what you would like to do not a god given right to move in that direction.
Don't go for a job as BMW salesman... you won't get far...
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