View Full Version : Absolutely stupid motorcycle laws.
byron126
07-05-13, 09:41 PM
Was just wondering as im fairly new to motorcycles (50cc peice'o**** for a year and sv650 33bhp for a couple months now) wether anyone else apart from myself thinks the motorcycle licensing laws in this country are just ridiculous, for instance coming from a 50cc that could just about do 50mph was bad enough on the roads when everything wants to kill you, let alone doing 28mph on a dual carriageway! luckily I managed to do the test 10 days before they changed the laws :smt040 but after that id have been on a 125 for two years the only other alternative being a...car :( which you now have to take out a mortgage to insure.
Anyway rant over, just wanted to see if anyone else on the forum thinks these laws were a bit ridiculous? :smt093
otaylor38
07-05-13, 09:54 PM
Yup. I agree. Anybody would think the government dont like motorcycles...
Tbh. I just get confused how we are all supposed to be doing all we can to save the planet, yet theyre doing more and more to put people off buying a motorcycle. I thought bikes were better than cars for the planet? I think they need to understand that we arent all power rangers...
byron126
07-05-13, 10:12 PM
I agree, I just can't understand how in anyone's mind doing 28mph on a dual carriageway is remotely safe. I have to say there was quite a few scary moments on that little bike, thank god I don't have to drive that thing anymore :)
Yup. I agree. Anybody would think the government dont like motorcycles... ..
They don't and never have done. They monitor the statistics and it looks good if the Minister can reduce the casualties by making it more difficult.
Thankfully people like MAG (http://www.mag-uk.org/en/index/a6296) exist to fight our corner.
Pete
Seeing as someone mentioned us, it is worth noting that it is our 40th anniversary this year, and the BMF is over 50. That should give you an idea of what motorcycling has been up against in the corridors of power...
The new licensing is coming from europe amongst other codswalllop like trying to get us to wear hi vis 24/7 etc. Lets get out of the eu i say!
The new licensing is coming from europe amongst other codswalllop like trying to get us to wear hi vis 24/7 etc. Lets get out of the eu i say!
Don't forget the new Mot laws Europe are pushing through as well.
Euro union my donkey...
Corrupt bunch of idiots .
kiggles
08-05-13, 09:54 AM
I think they need to understand that we arent all power rangers...
if there were more power rangers on the road bikers would be safer! proper leather suits with good armor and a good back plate will reduce injuries!
What you meant to say is less idiots on bikes. Its hard to say what is best to avoid accidents. I had gone from riding a 125 for 3-4 months to 33bph sv650. Admittedly the addiction to this more power became dangerous as always wanting to go faster (or accelerate harder rather then top speed). Lessons were learnt in the wet where the resistor helped me respect the power of the bike alot more by preventing more wheel speed and possible out of control moments.
after covering about 10-15k miles I was ready for the full 65bph but couldn't as i had another year to go.
But not all people pass a motorcycle test to ride a bike every day. Alot of people do it for sunny weekends on sports bikes, where they would maybe cover 1k-2k a year and would be total novice until they rack at least 10k miles.
The problem is you cant record how many miles/ experience someone has from riding a bike to impose the correct restrictions. Someone who rides every day for 30+ miles in town motorways is more experienced then ones out for the weekend. So have to restrict for people who use it least.
otherwise yes it is very annoying. I want my fireblade/R1 NOW. But I have learnt tarmac hurts and so do many other hard objects.
aesmith
08-05-13, 09:55 AM
The new licensing is coming from europe amongst other codswalllop like trying to get us to wear hi vis 24/7 etc. Lets get out of the eu i say!
UK licensing is based on the EU directive, but we have set higher age limits that the EU require for all the motorcycle categories. It seems to be the normal thing with harmonisation, no country wants to relax their existing requirements so the EU-wide scheme ends up more restrictive than any country's previous scheme.
SvNewbie
08-05-13, 10:21 AM
Having followed StuR on bank holiday Monday it is quite clear that the driving test will never test the ability of a 33hp bike never-mind a 46hp bike. Making someone do the exact same test twice is silly.
I think the upgrade path should have consisted of something mildly relevant to driving a more powerful machine, could quite easily have been similar to an advanced training day, and might actually save a life or two.
timwilky
08-05-13, 10:54 AM
You have to remember that whenever a new law is imposed those impacted will think it stupid.
When they reduced the learner bike from 250 to 125 most thought it stupid as a 125 bore no resemblance to the "Big" bike you could then ride once you passed.
When 125 technology started to up the BHP they put it a power limit as well as an engine size, most thought that stupid as learners no longer had the power to get themselves out of trouble.
When they introduced CBTs many thought that stupid as it was a hurdle into getting on two wheels.
The phased systems are there for a problem that really does not exist. That of a learner doing a test on a gutless 125 and going balls out on a full power bike. So a gradual transition.
I have a friend who did her DAS and immediately bought an R1. Did she kill herself. No, did she even come off it. No. But could she ride it. Well yes in a straight line.
My daughter passed her driving test at 17 and was immediately out in my 220bhp ST220. Again did she crash. No. But at the same time I have seen plenty of new drivers crash in 70bhp corsas etc.
As a parent, I want all kids to get on the road in a safe and responsible manner. Fact is far too many newly qualified drivers/riders crash. On 4 wheels you stand a good chance of walking away. on two it is a different matter.
The DAS makes sense if you were to change the restrictions for qualification of two years full licence holder whether it be car or bike. Then the candidate has experience of reading the road, understanding the dangers etc.
These days of mums taxi service most kids have never even ridden a push bike on the road prior to riding/driving, no wonder they think themselves invincible!
How many crashes are due to the power of a bike?
Its more about thinking for the other idiots on the road.
and a 125 is less safe when Mr Corsa pulls out on it than an R1.
Falling off on corners due to power is less common than incidents involving other road users.
TheRuffellator
08-05-13, 12:05 PM
I reckon the new laws are pretty ridiculous too but I think progression when it comes to riding is a very good idea. Being unrestricted from the word go is a bad plan In my opinion... as much as I'd have liked to have jumped straight onto a Gixxer 1000 as my first bike :smt073
yorkie_chris
08-05-13, 12:12 PM
Falling off on corners due to power is less common than incidents involving other road users.
Far far less.
AFAIK, in terms of at fault crashes, the worst culprits in a single vehicle crash are crashy 16-17 year olds tailgating and crashing into the backs of cars... the next worst are the weekend warriors losing it on bends the machine could easily have got round.
Personally I say leave it be, the 33hp thing was bollox and this one is even worse.
EssexDave
08-05-13, 01:22 PM
Just some thoughts...
The figures also show that 48% of crashes between motorcycles and cars were the result of the car driver failing to look properly.
Failing to look properly was the most frequent cause of crashes for all vehicles except motorcycles. Motorcyclists were most likely to crash through ‘loss of control’ and also most likely to be the victim of someone else failing to look.
(http://www.bikelawyer.co.uk/bike-accident-statistics)
A study (Clarke et al 2004) has indicated that there are 2 clear peaks in casualty age (21-25 & 31-35) and that there are 3 basic discernable motorcycle crash types:
- Right of way violation accidents (38% of cases)
- Loss of control at bends at speed (11% plus of cases)
- Overtaking/filtering accidents (15% of cases)
I have seen a few people do a das, get a big bike and crash it. One died this year in my town as I mentioned.
However I don't think any law or new way of doing things would have stopped him, he was loved by many but often boasted of his near death experiences including mounting the pavement having not made corners on Facebook.
I took my DAS after three years of 'L-plating it up' and got a 60 rwhp supermoto weighing 144 kg wet with a tank of fuel but repected the bike.
However, riding the er500 for my das did help me settle in to having more weight and power on the road, even if theyre gutless in comparison to modern middleweights..
You can over cook a bend on a 125 @ fast enough speeds to hert badly .
Your also tempted to keep the wick wound up on a little un so you keep that speed.
So power restrictions don't work that well.
As its the other road users who don't look this is the area that needs work.
Ceri JC
08-05-13, 01:57 PM
conspiracyTheoristModeOn
It's yet another attempt to kill off motorcycling via the 'long game'.
They know an outright ban will not be accepted (at least, not for the next couple of decades), so instead, you attack the problem by preventing new 'users' of motorcycles. Over time, the existing users will age and retire (or die off). If you can ensure that the rate at which this occurs exceeds the rate of new recruits signing up, eventually motorcycling will die out so much that a ban becomes socially acceptable as there are only a few hundred lunatics left doing it.
The guy in his 40s who already has had the bug for a couple of decades and the disposable income to fund it is unlikely to be convinced to stop riding by anything other than a total ban. A 17 year old looking at a small capacity bike vs a <1.0l car is an entirely different proposition. You just need to make it joyless and expensive enough that the misery and expense of a car seem the lesser of two evils and bingo, one less motorcyclist.
If they banned it, id do it anyway!
TheRuffellator
08-05-13, 02:22 PM
If they banned it, id do it anyway!
Damn right! Take the old number plate off and go for a blitz, It's not like they're going to be able to keep up with a lot of bikes out there:smt117
the thing is, what would you have to lose?
yorkie_chris
08-05-13, 02:49 PM
Your bike!
TheRuffellator
08-05-13, 02:54 PM
Yeah but if ridings banned anyway, unless you plan on doing track days it doesnt matter that much... and they'e got to catch you first ;)
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