Towing vehicle advice

[phil24_7]

I need a vehicle to tow a 2-2.5 tonne trailer and am hoping the mighty org can help me.

I am purchasing the vehicle on behalf of a charity for their school life centre caravan/trailer which I would add isn't loaded particularly well, with no scope at present to rearrange the load.

It can't be a LWB van as the trailer is quite long and it occasionally needs to go through some tight entrances. I've been looking at Disco 3's, Range Rovers, Defenders, X5's, Hi-Lux's, Patrols, Land Cruisers etc but with so many to choose from I'm starting to loose the plot!

Fuel economy isn't too much of a concern, reliability is (especially as we will be maintaining the vehicle gratis). It needs to be capable of towing the caravan whilst maintaining stability. From what I can gather, the higher the vehicle weight the better, but it also need reasonably firm suspension (or adjustable/upgradeable) so that it isn't to bouncy with the trailer on. A decent amount of power would be a bonus and diesel is preffered but Petrol or LPG will be considered.

At present we are using a modified Defender but this is well past it's sell-by-date and is probably a little light due to the weight distribution in the trailer.

Budget is £7000 private or £8400 from a VAT registered dealer/company.

Please help...it's for charity!!!

Regards

[LewSpeight]

Im probably so useless at this. But something with a lot a of torque and apparently the best for pulling something is the vw touareg.

Im afraid thats all i know haha. But it certainly, from what i know about it, fits everything you mentioned above.

Have a look into it maybe?

[SvNewbie]

Ideally you want something heavier than that trailer, ideally by a bit of a margin, to make towing it moderately pleasant. However, unless you can move up to a 7.5t tow vehicle you are out of luck given how heavy the trailer is.

I can't help but feel the Defender is as good as you are going to get. People have been towing heavy things with these for years with reasonable results. They are slow, ugly, and noisy but they get the job done.

If you are determined to get something heavier to pull it with I'd check out the Iveco Daily, these have some of the highest towing capacities of 3.5t vans, but even the short ones are pretty big. You said you can't rearrange the weight of the trailer, but putting some of the heavy stuff in the back of the van would make it much safer to drive.

A random one that is worth checking out it the VW T5. Looks nice and have surprisingly high gross train weights, but I'm not sure I'd be happy driving a 2t van with a heavier trailer.

Sorry to be this person, and I'm not sure how being a charity may impact this, but you realise you need a taco and an operators licence for that outfit right?

[phil24_7]

No tacho needed as we supply a driver and it's not their usual job, nor is it for hire or reward. It is simply towing a trailer to various schools a few times a month. We're a commercial vehicle repairer and tacho centre so know the score regarding tacho's,

[SvNewbie]

Ah yeah, charities are exempt. Thought I'd point it out on the off chance, easy to not realise that towing a heavy trailer with a discovery could put you into tacho territory!

https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/exemptions-from-eu-law

[Kenzie]

Most common tow vehicles we see at work are L200s, Shoguns, Navaras and the Discovery.

[Ch00]

Shoguns at work are the longer wheelbases one with a plated weight of 3000 and a train weight of 6000.

Fairly hardy auto boxes.

[_Stretchie_]

The Land Rover should be no problems towing wise, just double check but I think things like the Ford Maverick (which is a rebadged Nissan Terrano) has a low tow rating at about 2,700kg but apart from the Freelander I think all the Land Rovers are plated for 3,500 or more?

The problem with any of the Land Rovers is reliability, (I am a Land Rover fan but have to concede this), you could get a decent bit of kit for that money, how about a Range Rover, comfy, will tow the world and you can get a TDV8 in that price range, if you allow about £300 - £400 within your budget you can get a diagnostic tool that will read any fault codes to tell you any issues and the right ones will also reset faults which negates the bending over from a dealership to reset something stupid like a blown bulb warning on the dash at about £80 (the robbing barstewards).

Apart from that, anything BIG and Japanese should sort you out, some may have a rear axle diff locker as standard, a very useful bit of kit

[phil24_7]

We already have a fair few diagnostic tools so that's not an issue. Would love a Range Rover but I think it may be a little flashy and better vehicle could be had for the same money, albeit with less bling.

Land Rover wise I'm only really interested in the Disco 3 or a Defender 110...but reliability issues put me off. Whilst they pull like trains, they aren't really designed as towing vehicles, more off road work horses. This vehicle will rarely get used as anything other than a towing vehicle!

Heard good things about the Navara...but after a short bit of research have uncovered durability issues!!!

My god this is a minefield! If it was my money this would be a lot easier but it is the charity's money (well council money but it is from the charity's pot!) so I don't want to get it wrong.

[Pete7]

I towed this for 8 years including trips down to South Brittainy for summer hols. she weighed 2.6T with the trailer and camping kit. Tow vehicle was a 300TDI Auto Disco which was superb and never had any problems. However, the 300 TDI are now getting long in the tooth and the Series 3 Disco is a completely different vehicle with lots of engine electronics, whilst the 300 series were mechnical.

With this weight do make sure the brakes on the trailer are tip top as they do help with keeping it all in a straight line when braking at speed. Also make sure the tow vehicle hitch is adjusted to the right height because you will be towing a 4 wheel caravan.

Appreciate it's difficult to move wieghts inside, but anything heavy like water should be over the axles and deffinately out of the ends, it really makes a difference. Towing a rib with a heavy outboard on the back is probably the worst example and leads to fish tailing etc.

Pete

[phil24_7]

Cheers Pete.

Above all I want stability, durability and reliability. Power is a secondary concern as the Defender we currently use could be easily overtaken by a slug! Anything newer will have a multitude of electronics to go wrong and ensure I keep the local independents in business!

The trailer is maintained by us and is regularly serviced.

[_Stretchie_]

Would love a Range Rover but I think it may be a little flashy and better vehicle could be had for the same money


Agree on the Flashy part, but you could go for an older vehicle, from 2003 to current they are pretty much the same shape so still look current especially if looked after not sure about the better vehicle for money though



They aren't really designed as towing vehicles, more off road work horses. This vehicle will rarely get used as anything other than a towing vehicle!


Are you sure? I loads of people use these for taking all sorts of big, heavy and full horse boxes and transporting long car trailers.


How's about something less than your budget, made out of granite and used the world over?

http://www.unimogs.co.uk/machinedetail.asp?searchstring=U1141

[phil24_7]

Although they do, they're primarily off-road work horses with some towing thrown in. This vehicle will be used for towing only but I suppose for the amount it will be getting used it wont make much difference.

Funnily enough, unimogs have been mentioned here as well as JCB fast tracks. Unimogs are serious money though and fast tracks in good nick at a good price are rare!

[_Stretchie_]

But think of how cool you'd look driving it then parachuting down from the drivers seat, you could park up next to people and be a proper anorak and talk to them about ported axles, low range boxes and diff locks

(I know, I'm sad :( )

[phil24_7]

Cool??????? Have you looked in the mirror?!?!?!?! :)

[phil24_7]

I've shrunk the list down now...diesels only.

Land Rover Discovery 3 (maybe a TD5 but I'd prefer the newer Disco)
Land Rover Defender 110 (though it's a little basic)
Range Rover (probably not though as you pay a lot for the bling/name)
VW Touareg 2.5 or 3.0V6(know little about this other than it pulls like a train)
Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD (little known about this curve ball too)
Nissan Patrol GR 3.0 Di Profi
Toyota Land Cruiser 4.2
Mitsubishi L200 (the 2700KG towing limit and low weight may count this out)

Thought the idea of a shortlist was for it to be short?!?!?!?! LOL

[maviczap]

At work we use a VW Transporter T32 130 TDI to tow a 2t double axle trailer about.

Plenty of grunt to easily tow it, think ours is the V5 engine.

Ours has rear bench seats and glass for the rear passengers, so is classed as a car, not a van

Never known it to struggle, even fully loaded with overnight bags and equipment.

[svrich]

Go for the Disco 3. The difference between the Defender and Disco is night-and-day. Electronics are the weak point but it seems that you'll have that covered with your business resources. The Disco is extreemly capable off road (I won an off road event in a Disco 4 a couple of years ago :)) but it will tow a heavy trailer/caravan all day long. The auto is very smooth and the engine is full of power. My in-laws have had one for about 3/4 years and tow a double axle caravan with it all over Norfolk. They are planning on towing it to France this summer. The cab comfort is very good and you get the added bonus of a large boot space even without the rear seats folded down.

[Red Herring]

I went through all this when I was looking for something to pull my boat. I ended up with a 3.0D long wheelbase Landcruiser and I have to say I have never regretted it. They are pricey when up against a similar age and mileage Disco/Shogun/Nissan etc but you really do get what you pay for. I hunted around for ages until I found a 1999 one with less than 70k and a full history and paid under 5k for it. The boat is just under 2 ton complete with trailer and all it's gear, but it's 30' long with a fair bit of windage so the tow vehicle has to have plenty of presence and the Landcruiser will happily pull it at 60+ all day. You could pay a bit extra and try and get the 4.2 six cylinder version but I don't think they are rated any heavier on the train weight and unless you plan on pulling up and down mountains I don't think you'll find the 3.0 short of power.

[Dabteacake]

You thought about an ex mil 90 or 110 wolf?

[phil24_7]

Nope, they never even got considered. Would guess these are rare or difficult to get hold of? They're essentially just Defenders though, with a few mods.

[phil24_7]

The Fourtrak has also made a surprise appearance on the list though it's low kerb weight may prove it's undoing!

[phil24_7]

Go for the Disco 3. The difference between the Defender and Disco is night-and-day. Electronics are the weak point but it seems that you'll have that covered with your business resources.

Are you talking about the difference in comfort and spec or the difference in pulling power etc?

[phil24_7]

The shortlist is now:

Land Rover Discovery 3
Land Rover Defender 110 (a direct replacement for what we already use but a little basic)
Toyota Land Cruiser 4.2
Daihatsu Fourtrak Independent 2.8 TDL

[Fordward]

Why did you rule out the Touraeg?

The answer is a no brainer IMO, its a Land Rov... sorry Cruiser, you said you wanted reliability ;-)

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[svrich]

Are you talking about the difference in comfort and spec or the difference in pulling power etc?

Both. The 90 will be an inline 5 cylinder, the Disco will be a V6. The 90 will be a slightly more comfy version of my old Series 2a SWB (for comfy see not-at-all), the Disco will be more like sitting in arm chairs. The heater will actually be worth turning on, and you won't get ringing ears from all the wind noise.
I did think today that you could get a Disco 2 V8 on LPG. The V8 will usually have lower mileage, there will be plenty of torque for towing, and they suffer from fewer electrical issues than the TD5. They still need checking carefully but is sounds like you know what you're looking at.

[phil24_7]

Why did you rule out the Touraeg?

The answer is a no brainer IMO, its a Land Rov... sorry Cruiser, you said you wanted reliability ;-)

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Touareg was dumped as I don't know enough about them nor know anybody who does. I'm sure they're up to the job but wheelbase, length and width were on a par with the Range Rover. For these two reasons it got ditched!

I'm leaning towards a Disco 3 though the Land Cruiser is close due to it's reliability. The old bloke at work that will be driving it wants to stick with a defender 110 as that's what we use now and he knows it'll do what we need it to.

The length and width of the Land Rover and Land Cruiser are a little bigger that the defender and that may play a crucial part as some of the places we need to take this trailer have very limited access!

[phil24_7]

Both. The 90 will be an inline 5 cylinder, the Disco will be a V6. The 90 will be a slightly more comfy version of my old Series 2a SWB (for comfy see not-at-all), the Disco will be more like sitting in arm chairs. The heater will actually be worth turning on, and you won't get ringing ears from all the wind noise.
I did think today that you could get a Disco 2 V8 on LPG. The V8 will usually have lower mileage, there will be plenty of torque for towing, and they suffer from fewer electrical issues than the TD5. They still need checking carefully but is sounds like you know what you're looking at.

Wont be able to sway the boss; or indeed the charity into going for petrol...even if it is LPG...though a V8 would be lovely! :)

[phil24_7]

What's the Disco's rear suspension like? Is it soft and wollowy or taught and tight?

The trailer we are pulling is not made correctly. The two axles are spaced apart more than they should be and the tow hitch is slightly off centre, this makes it naturally want to move slightly from side to side, to soft a suspension will only exaggerate this effect!

[BanannaMan]

Get the Toyota, reliability is second to none.
It's kinda boring and the best at nothing, but always up to task no matter what that might be.
Nothing to see one with over 300k on the clock and repairs are few and far between.
If reliable, practical and long term are your considerations the Landcruiser is the answer.
(even if it the 'vanilla ice-cream' of the bunch)

[svrich]

Lifted from Wikipedia;
The LR3 features full independent suspension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_suspension) (FIS). Like the Series III Range Rover, this was an air suspension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_suspension) system, enabling ride-height adjustment by simply pumping up or deflating the air bags. The vehicle can be raised to provide ground clearance when off-road, but lowered at high speeds to improve handling. Land Rover developed 'cross-linked' air suspension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_suspension). When needed, the suspension mimics the action of a beam axle (as one wheel drops, the other rises). If the chassis of the vehicle contacts the ground when the suspension was at its 'off road' height, the system senses the reduction in load on the air springs and raises the vehicle an extra inch. In the UK and European markets, a coil-spring independent suspension system was offered on the base model. This model was unique in the range by having only five seats and only being available with the 2.7 litre diesel engine. This model lacked the Terrain Response system.

So unless it's a base model you'll get adjustable air suspension that is also conrtolled to maintain stability. Having driven one a fair bit I can confirm that the ride is very good.

[phil24_7]

Head says Toyota, heart says Disco 3 and old stuck in his ways employee says Defender!!!

Guess I'll just see what's about and at what price and let that guide my decision!

[MattCollins]

I'd probably be looking at more practical multi role vehicles... pick your brand but I mean something like a Ford Transit MWB bus.

I'd say no to the Toyota Landcruiser even though we have a small fleet of them. They turn worse than a small truck which can make them challenging to back a trailer or manoeuvre in tight places in comparison to others. At least in this part of the world they are hideously expensive to maintain if they have to go to a dealer. For a NFP with a limited budget I'd definitely want to look at the cost of keeping anything on the road.

I have a Transit (125 T350) that was purchased to move my 20ft 2.8t mobile workshop and all of my gear around every time I upped stumps... turns out it spent less than year used in this role only being driven every couple of months before I retired, however it did a decent job of it. It is big, gutless, slow (but will pull highway speeds with a load) , heavy, stable, comfortable, economical, cheap to maintain, easy to drive, has good visibility and is easy to back despite being a little bigger the others. It also has the versatility to take 8 seats or something like 1.8 tonnes (with the seats out) in the back. It was all that was required.

[yorkie_chris]

You see loads of transits spending all their days towing diggers around without much problem.

[phil24_7]

No transit...not happening...not on my watch! Occasionally the ground can be a liittle tricky so a 4x4 is essential.

[MattCollins]

I did say "pick your brand"...

Do you really have such exceptional circumstances that require 4WD and not just a little forethought as to where the wheels are placed?

[phil24_7]

This ain't my first rodeo! We own various vans already and we can occasionally use one of these but most of the time a 4x4 is needed due to location/access/terrain/weight/weather!

[suzukigt380paul]

Head says Toyota, heart says Disco 3 and old stuck in his ways employee says Defender!!!

Guess I'll just see what's about and at what price and let that guide my decision!the defender is not that reliable,the td5 will be gutless with that amount of weight,and they are not nice to use on long journeys(over 10 miles),the disco 3,dont know much about these,but if it shares any mechanical parts that were used on the dico 2, i would then aviod it like the plague,so in my book it would leave you with the toyota,also check the maximum towing weight of any choice,and the maximum weight at the tow hitch

[phil24_7]

All have 3.5t maximum weight and 150kg weight on the hitch so no difference between them and all exceed the trailers weights.

[phil24_7]

Managed to convince the old bloke that will be driving it that new is the way forward. We did a tow with a Toyota Hi Lux and it pulled it no problems even though it doesn't have the towing capacity required so he'd now be happy with either of my choices or a Nissan Navara!!!

[Mr wilson]

Don't discount the Navara on reliability issues, I've had a couple and never had a problem. Had a D23 and did over 70k with it and now have a D40 automatic Aventura with almost 30k on it. If you buy a low miles one that hasn't been abused, use it carefully and look after it properly then you won't have any more problems than with other makes. Most of the horror stories seem to be connected to builders/farmers etc who are maybe not quite as mechanically sympathetic as they might be. You do tend to hear only the bad stories as well. For every broken down one there are hundreds if not thousands of good ones.
Just my tuppence worth.

Shug :salut::salut:

[phil24_7]

I do know there was problems with 1 of their engines throwing the con rod through the side of the engine and it could happen from 40000 on regardless of servicing and condition! I think it was the D22 engines.

[Mr wilson]

Aye, thats right. It was something to do with the big end shells if I remember. The D24s were going through clutches after pretty low miles as well, but that was almost always the farmer/builder syndrom again, certainly in my experience.
Someone mentioned Landcruisers earlier and to be honest they're the hardiest option but you'll pay big money for an old car and if its done a lot of miles then the whole thing has been along for the ride, so the cost of sorting out all the other worn bits might make it less attractive.
Snot easy is it, suppose if there was a perfect solution then we'd all be driving the same thing.
SV with a tow bar?

Shug:salut::salut:

[phil24_7]

I just wish there were a few places you could hire that sort of vehicle locally, then I could hire each one and test tow the buggers!!! To be honest I think I'm leaning towards the Disco 3 unless one of the others comes along at the right price!