View Full Version : Continuing battery problems.
dirtyred619
05-06-13, 06:01 PM
Hi guys. I posted last year about my bike not starting (it was just clicking etc) and after getting lots of advice of you all and doing various tests to test if it was charging etc everything seemed to be in order. I put it down to maybe leaving the parking lights on, I charged the battery and the bike was starting fine again. This has happened twice since, the latest being today and both times after the bike being unfortunately unridden for a period of time. The first time the bike had been stood since the end of September over winter and started on the button when it went for its MOT in early March, and started every time until the end of April when I was nearly finished putting on the GSXR front end and I had to put if on charge again. After then getting the bike back on the road I went on a couple of short rides and then a reasonable ride out to Oulton Park with the bike being fine apart from my other problem of the speedo which meant its not been ridden since (4 or 5 weeks). I fitted the speedo today and was going to go out and make sure it was working but the bike didn't start. It'll be going back on charge and I'm sure it will be fine again but I'm a little concerned that now I'll be out on it regularly that this might happen again whilst I'm up in the Lakes or Peaks etc.
So a bit long winded but wanted to give the details. Could this all be down to lack of use or could it be something else?
Cheers
Mike
Biker Biggles
05-06-13, 06:22 PM
If the issue seems to happen after the bike has been left for a long period it sounds like your battery is not holding charge,or there is a current drain.Either way it will damage the battery thus making the problem worse.Regular charging will prevent the problem if not actually solving it.
dirtyred619
05-06-13, 06:29 PM
It does seem to be after being stood but I wouldn't have thought a few weeks is that long. In March it was about 5 months and started first time but then wouldn't start. I can only assume as I was working on it but starting it occasionally without being ridden that that's taken its toll on the battery.
What could be draining the current? I've only fitted heated grips recently so other then that there's nothing else connected to the battery.
Biker Biggles
05-06-13, 07:55 PM
Batteries are damaged by going flat,and that damage is worse the longer they remain flat so it may be that your battery is no longer able to hold its charge very well.May be worth getting it checked,but most of all it will be worth getting a trickle charger and making sure the battery gets regularly charged.
dirtyred619
05-06-13, 08:43 PM
Been thinking off getting one anyway so I think that'll be my next move before maybe looking at replacing the battery, which I think is relatively new anyway.
dirtyred619
15-06-13, 03:30 PM
I need to get to the bottom of this problem now as the bike is perfect otherwise. I went out both days last weekend covering about 300 miles in total and the bike was fine starting every time. It's not been used then through the week and as I'm planning another blast out tomorrow I've gone to give it a clean and wax today. Sure enough it didn't start and got the clicks again. Luckily my other job today was to connect the optimiser that arrived during the week so I did that and put it on charge whilst I went about cleaning and waxing. By the time I'd finished it had charged and obviously then started fine. I'd had enough by this point then so didn't want to mess about getting to the battery to take some readings with the multimeter, I'll do that tomorrow both before and after the ride out.
The battery will be left on the optimiser from now on so there shouldn't be any problem starting but there is still something not right and I want to get it sorted. So what could the options be. A sh** battery (was apparently quite new when I bought the bike just over a year ago), the reg/rec, power drain from somewhere ( hoping its not this as sounds like an ar** to find the cause) or something else, stator maybe? Any thoughts? I know it's not much help without the readings, I'll post them up tomorrow.
well if its ok when your out and about it's charging. if its sitting doing nowt and draining then there is something draining it.
do you have an alarm or any other electrical accessory's fitted?
there is usually a date of manufacture on battery's and if you find this it might give you an idea as to how old it is and weather or not it needs replacing.
dirtyred619
15-06-13, 03:51 PM
No alarm all I've got connected apart from the optimiser lead at the moment is heated grips but they've not long been fitted and I've had this problem before that. I'll be fitting a new 12v power socket as well soon but I've managed to get one of your accessory gizmos so once that's connected I think I'm right in saying that anything connected wont be able to drain the battery. The reason for the 12v socket is so I can charge my camera but I'd be scared to do that at the moment anyway.
I'm leaning towards either the battery or reg/rec but I just want to be sure before I go buying parts. Again, I'll have a check of the date on the battery as well tomorrow when I take some readings.
sound like a duff battery.
dirtyred619
15-06-13, 03:56 PM
Is there anything else that can drain the battery?
apart from an open circuit no.
face facts your battery is fubar. the optimiser might give it new life but i doubt it.
i take it it's worse in the colder weather?
dirtyred619
15-06-13, 04:58 PM
I'd' be happy if it was just the battery but just want to be sure. And it's always cold isn't it lol.
for the past 3 years my battery has completely drained over winter but a charge on an oximiser has brought it back to life. the bike gets left a week between uses and starts no problem and the battery holds a charge.
if a battery is not holding a charge then its fubar and unlikely to be a fault of the bike (unless the bike is over charging) as it's charging while running but if left it will drain so more than likely the plates have warped or the acid level has dropped exposing the plates.
go and google how lead acid car batteries work and why they eventually give up.
dirtyred619
15-06-13, 05:49 PM
I'll check the readings tomorrow but I agree. It's a Yuasa that's in at the minute. Is it best to go with the same or are there better ones to get?
dirtyred619
15-06-13, 06:07 PM
Just found my thread from when this first happened and the readings I got.
Battery disconnected - 12.7
Battery connected - 12.7
On bike and idling - 12.9
5000 rpm - 14.4
Be interesting to compare to the readings tomorrow.
You need to take the readings after say 10 hours or better still a full day after it has been charged or run. the reason being the battery plates will hold a surface charge that will give you higher than normal readings. This will dissipate over a day to give you the true voltage.
Pete
dirtyred619
15-06-13, 07:20 PM
It's on an optimiser now so my plan was to take readings in the morning once disconnected and then at the end of the day after a good ride out, sound reasonable?
It's on an optimiser now so my plan was to take readings in the morning once disconnected and then at the end of the day after a good ride out, sound reasonable?
Both will give you a surface charge since even on an optimiser the voltage must be higher than the battery voltage or it won't charge.
I would take the readings as planned then leave it alone Sunday night and take them again first thing Monday morning before going to work on it.
Pete
dirtyred619
15-06-13, 07:59 PM
Both will give you a surface charge since even on an optimiser the voltage must be higher than the battery voltage or it won't charge.
I would take the readings as planned then leave it alone Sunday night and take them again first thing Monday morning before going to work on it.
Pete
Yeah I'll do that then so the readings are useful. Then if it looks like I need a new battery I can get one ordered and fitted hopefully before next weekend.
dirtyred619
16-06-13, 01:18 PM
Well here's this mornings readings:
Bike off: 12.94
Bike on: 14.48
5000/RPM : 14.51
I'll take a reading in the morning now and see if there's any change.
Just sounds like your battery is fubared. They dont like staying flat, ive had a batteru die that was being charged with a battery charger once a week just suddenly die. Ive also had one completely dead the day after it had a long drive and therefore should of had a charge, but it just gave up the ghost randomly.
aesmith
17-06-13, 09:55 AM
Did you ever check that whether the battery holds its charge if it's disconnected from the bike?
dirtyred619
17-06-13, 09:59 AM
Did you ever check that whether the battery holds its charge if it's disconnected from the bike?
Thats a good shout. I'm gonna take another set of readings later on then I'll disconnect it and see how I go.
ethariel
17-06-13, 02:31 PM
Have a look at the wiring on the back of the fuse holder, my S3 had issues with the battery dying all the time and it was a corroded wire on the back.
dirtyred619
17-06-13, 02:54 PM
Have a look at the wiring on the back of the fuse holder, my S3 had issues with the battery dying all the time and it was a corroded wire on the back.
I'll have a check and see thanks.
Here's todays readings:
Off: 12.95
Bike On: 14.48 approx.
5,000 RPM : 14.48 approx.
I've now disconnected the battery and I'll take regular readings this week. One thing that is a slight concern possibly is that after I unhooked the battery and took a reading it was 12.98, .03 higher then when connected but off. Could that indicate that there is a slight drain or is that negligable?
dirtyred619
17-06-13, 03:06 PM
Have a look at the wiring on the back of the fuse holder, my S3 had issues with the battery dying all the time and it was a corroded wire on the back.
Just had a check all looks good thankfully.
dirtyred619
17-06-13, 03:38 PM
Sorry for spamming!
As I'm bored and after doing a bit more reading I've just tested the battery voltage again and its now 12.74v. Also, I've reconnected the postive lead and and ran the multimeter between the negative terminal and negative wire. I beleive this should be 0 if all is fine but just got a reading of approx. 11.4v. Battery?
I beleive this should be 0 if all is fine but just got a reading of approx. 11.4v. Battery?
What does it read with the ignition switched off?
Pete
dirtyred619
17-06-13, 04:40 PM
What does it read with the ignition switched off?
Pete
Thats with only positive lead connected and ignition off sorry.
dirtyred619
18-06-13, 08:18 AM
12.67 this morning.
Be interesting to see if it continues to drop without being used over the next few days.
Pete
dirtyred619
18-06-13, 12:51 PM
Be interesting to see if it continues to drop without being used over the next few days.
Pete
It will be. I'm just wondering though what sort of discharge rate is normal and to be expected. If it levels out and doesn't drop too fast I'd then be inclined to think it's something else draining the battery (loose connection) as the charging system figures being a smidge higher than idling figures suggests it's doing it's job. But it's certainly not my strong point and would welcome any further input. Quick and easy fix is it's just a duff battery though so I'm hoping it's that.
are you taking these figures with the battery in the bike or out the bike.
take reading with the battery disconnected and leave it disconnected. so charge the battery and let settle for about 6 hours then take a reading, wait a day then take another reading.
leaving the battery connected is not going to tell you shizz. you must disconnect the battery from everything yes that includes the charger.
if there is a drop in the voltage reading then it's fubar.
if there is no drop then its fine and you have an electrical drain somewhere.
dirtyred619
18-06-13, 01:46 PM
The last 3 readings have been with battery completely disconnected Lance. First was:
12.98v - Taken about 4p.m. yesterday over 24 hours after being taken off charge. Then as I was bored I took another reading about 16.50 yesterday and it was:
12.74v - Left overnight and it was:
12.67v this morning.
Just taken another and it's 12.69v! So it's dropped off but then steadied and even gone up slightly.
if it's keeping that charge then it might be fine. another problem with battery's is amperage. the volts might be ok but the cranking amps are away to pot.
by the sounds of it the battery is ok so you have an electrical drain somewhere and i would suggest you start looking at your loom for splits and rubbing.
since its summer then disconnect your heated grips and see how you get on.
dirtyred619
18-06-13, 02:13 PM
by the sounds of it the battery is ok so you have an electrical drain somewhere and i would suggest you start looking at your loom for splits and rubbing.
Which is the outcome I was dreading as I'm assuming it could be a mare to track the cause down.
Assuming the battery stays steady at it's current voltage disconnected I was thinking that if I reconnect it tomorrow but leave heated grips etc disconnected, if there is a drain somewhere the battery voltage will start to drop again and at least that would confirm things.
Then it would just be the arduous task of trying to find the cause.
dirtyred619
18-06-13, 02:16 PM
But at least if it a something that can be sorted by a bit of electrical tape then that's £40 saved on a battery that can go towards a gel seat!
dirtyred619
19-06-13, 08:24 AM
Well 12.67v this morning, same as yesterday. The slight rise in voltage over yesterday was probably due to temperature or something. Going to reconnect the battery only, no accessories, and see if it starts to drop again which in my eyes will confirm a drain from somewhere in the system.
Just as a slight aside, how low will the voltage go before it won't start the battery (i.e. 9.5v) and is my current voltage of 12.67v for a battery 2 days off charge a decent voltage or should it be a bit higher?
dirtyred619
19-06-13, 08:43 AM
As per the other day, when the battery is connected there is a slight drop in voltage (Was 12.67v then went to 12.64 when connected so drop of 0.03v) The other day it was 12.95v when connected and rose to 12.98v when I unhooked it. Should this be the case or should it read the same connected as it is unconnected? Probably a normal thing but thought I'd mention it as it also could be a sign of a drain.
aesmith
19-06-13, 09:00 AM
That could be a sign of current draw. Can you measure current with your multi meter? If so then (with care) you could connect the positive to the bike, then meter positive probe to battery negative terminal, meter negative probe to negative cable. With care as you don't want to short the battery with the meter, either directly or by accidentally grounding something.
Regarding absolute voltages, if the battery's fully charged and at rest then it should read something over 12.5V (different document cite different absolute values). 12.0 or below means just about flat, although it still might start the engine.
dirtyred619
19-06-13, 10:17 AM
Yeah wasn't sure which setting to put it at but here's the readings:
2000u - 1
20m - 1.
200m - 85.5
Am I right in thinking that 0 means no draw and a reading means there is a draw or is it the other way around?
aesmith
19-06-13, 10:39 AM
I can't quite make sense of the scales you quote. It sounds as if it's drawing 85.5 "somethings" which gets rounded up to 1 "something" at the higher ranges.
If it's 85.5mA (Milli Amps) than that's too much, and will flatten your battery in less than a week. 85.5µA (Micro Amps) then that's virtually nothing.
As a guide,
12.7v fully charged and rested for a few hours.
12.2v = 50% charged
12.0v = 25% (or flat as AESmith said).
Do bear in mind that the whilst the digital meter will display to 0.1 most aren't that accurate unless you have a large Avo type. I have two on the boat and there is a difference in readings between them.
Pete
dirtyred619
19-06-13, 11:33 AM
I can't quite make sense of the scales you quote. It sounds as if it's drawing 85.5 "somethings" which gets rounded up to 1 "something" at the higher ranges.
If it's 85.5mA (Milli Amps) than that's too much, and will flatten your battery in less than a week. 85.5µA (Micro Amps) then that's virtually nothing.
I'll try and take a pic of the display it will hopefully be clearer. It is strange though as it was 6 days between being used and then not starting this most recent time.
dirtyred619
19-06-13, 11:36 AM
As a guide,
12.7v fully charged and rested for a few hours.
12.2v = 50% charged
12.0v = 25% (or flat as AESmith said).
Do bear in mind that the whilst the digital meter will display to 0.1 most aren't that accurate unless you have a large Avo type. I have two on the boat and there is a difference in readings between them.
Pete
Thanks for the info. Off current readings its certainly looking like the battery is fine and I'm again more inclined to say its current draw from somewhere. At least I've got time to try and diagnose this before I next plan on being on the bike.
dirtyred619
19-06-13, 06:49 PM
Well at about 5 the battery was still at 12.66 so that's encouraging. Here's the pick of the reading of the current, hope I did it right. Was a struggle to take the reading, support the multimeter and take the picture at the same time! Reading was the same as before but my hand slightly slipped as the camera took the picture.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x463/dirtyred1978/c54148c108cbed39e1c4e0c4bc9428ef_zps40fc04f8.jpg
aesmith
19-06-13, 09:05 PM
That looks like 84.8mA I'm afraid.
dirtyred619
19-06-13, 09:31 PM
That looks like 84.8mA I'm afraid.
So I should start looking for loose wires/connections etc then? Weird thing is the voltage on the battery hasn't dropped at all yet today!
dirtyred619
20-06-13, 08:30 AM
Battery been hooked back up now for a day. Reading this morning - 12.64v, so not dropped off at all. Surely if there was a higher than expected drain there would be a drop in charge by now? I'm begining to think I should just take my chances and keep the battery on an optimiser at least once a week. Battery seems to be holding it's charge both off and on the bike (at least upto now) and everything else seems fine. Only thing I can think to do now is take readings before I next go out on it and get a decent ride in with a couple of stops etc. All being well, any readings taken once back should re-confirm, at least in my eyes, that the charging system is working, or am I wrong there? I.e. if it's 12.64v before the ride, it should be the 12.64v once back.
Personally as someone that doesnt know much about electrics, if i had your problem and charging the battery once a week or so ensured it didnt happen, i would just do that. Yes its not ideal but if you can make it work like that its gona save you alot of hassle in tracing a problem
aesmith
20-06-13, 09:53 AM
If the battery was really drawing 85mA then that would take just over 2AH out of the battery in 24 hours, which is about 20% of a full charge. On that basis if it's not dropped below 12.5V at rest in a couple of days then it can't have been drawing that current all the time. Bear in mind that every time you discharge a battery below about 50% you are damaging it or at the very least reducing it's life so I wouldn't let it drop to 12V if you can avoid it.
Regarding charging, you're more or less correct assuming you're checking under like circumstances, and allowing the battery to settle down. Checking right after a ride is going to show an artificially high voltage (assuming it's been charging at all).
dirtyred619
20-06-13, 09:57 AM
Regarding charging, you're more or less correct assuming you're checking under like circumstances, and allowing the battery to settle down. Checking right after a ride is going to show an artificially high voltage (assuming it's been charging at all).
That's all I erally meant in regards to that, in that if the charge is the same or above the readings before the ride then the charging system must be working. I'd take another reading later on that day or the next morning though just to see what that is.
dirtyred619
21-06-13, 09:31 AM
Well 12.63v this morning so all seems normal. Baffling!! Gonna just plod on as normal and put it on charge as mentioned once a week/night before a ride. I'll still try and get to the bottom of things though. All I can think of is that there's an exposed wire that might intermittently touch metal bodywork or something so depending on how it ends up resting may cause a drain, but what do I know. Sound feasable?
aesmith
21-06-13, 10:04 AM
Sound feasable?
Yes. Frustrating, but I don't see what else you can do. Testing's not going to help except when the fault is occurring.
Maybe more experienced SV'ers can suggest likely places to look for wiring chafe.
dirtyred619
04-07-13, 03:34 PM
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!
I'm hoping this will be resolved soon as I'm (regretably) hopefully selling the bike soon to upgrade.
Went to start it just for the first time in a couple of weeks. Did a reading first which was showing 12.59v, so battery was still charged. Priming noise etc sounded good, pressed the starter and.....clicking and flashing!! Did a reading straight after this failure and battery was at approx. 11.59v. So after all this messing about, I'm hoping that this now just means new battery time.
Anyway got an opinion? Only other thing I can think of is something to do with the starter but that's always bang on the button when the battery has recently been charged. And as this problem seems to be happening all the time now I think it all adds up to the battery in some way deteriorating.
your battery is fubar. end of. mine was same symptoms, a nice new battery later and all is well. can even leave my alarm on without fear of it draining within 2 days.
dirtyred619
04-07-13, 05:30 PM
your battery is fubar. end of. mine was same symptoms, a nice new battery later and all is well. can even leave my alarm on without fear of it draining within 2 days.
Does seem to be the case. Would you go with another Yuasa or another make? Seen an Exide one for a much more favourable price.
Yuasa. just got one at £34 delivered. i do suspect that they are all made in the same factory.
dirtyred619
04-07-13, 05:36 PM
Yuasa. just got one at £34 delivered. i do suspect that they are all made in the same factory.
Where was that from please ill be getting that one. Cheapest I'd seen was £40 odd quid?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Yuasa-Maintenance-Free-VRLA-Motorcycle-Battery-YTX12BS-/251292421852?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3a82320edc
dirtyred619
04-07-13, 05:50 PM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Yuasa-Maintenance-Free-VRLA-Motorcycle-Battery-YTX12BS-/251292421852?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3a82320edc
Nice one Lance but just found this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yuasa-YTX12BS-Motorcycle-Bike-Battery-Heavy-Duty-YTX12-BS-/281128211839?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item41748c157f
But seeing as yours was from unipart I might see if a mate at a garage can order one for me from them, might get it cheaper still. Just hadn't thought of them.
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.