OMO Help me get out of london [Archive] - SV650.org

View Full Version : OMO Help me get out of london

ClunkintheUK

13-06-13, 08:47 AM

Bit of an advice thread on two subjects, and sorry for the rambling explanation.

I've lived in London for most of my life, and I never used to get wound up by the number of people and I could get around the city pretty quickly on my bike or PT. But in the last 6 months or so its all seemed to start really grating. A big part of it might be my working in the City, where there are just too many people in too little space, and their time/phone call is always more important than everything else around them.

Also working in the City i have to deal with the over-ambitious, under-moraled and money-focused more then I would wish. I admit I first went into finance for the money, because I had no idea what I wanted to do so thought i'd at least get paid well doing something I don't want to do.

So first question, career advice. I'd like to move more to the programming side of what I do (mostly in VBA at the moment, which isn't used outside of finance) Does anyone have any advice on what I should know and do before approaching any companies, I am learning Java as well as web development, more the back end, PHP and MySQL. Does anyone know any companies who would be worth approaching or even better any jobs going? Smaller companies would also be preferable.

The other advise I am after is whereabouts in the country is good for doing this sort of thing? Like I said, I have little knowledge of working/living outside of London so I am not really sure where to look, currently looking at "South of England" but should really narrow it down a little bit.

SvNewbie

13-06-13, 09:01 AM

Drop me a PM Clive. I live and work in Chiswick and live in Ealing Common (just moved, but its only a 10 minute push bike ride). I'm sure you'd find London much more tolerable if you get away from having to use the tube and commuting into the city. Even if not I can definitely give you some advice on what you should know / learn as I've just started being involved in the interview process.

Fallout

13-06-13, 09:16 AM

See the light mate! Escape to the country. :) There are software jobs all around the country mate, especially in the south. Many jobs, in fact, even in a recession. You'll be able to search any city or town down here and discover companies recruiting. Take your pick!

Experience will be your friend but experience in specific languages may be your Achilles heal. Larger companies may be your best bet though. They are more likely to see your ability and potential and be prepared to provide training and time. Smaller companies will want you to hit the ground running with their chosen language under your belt.

Big companies I can think of are IBM (have offices in pompy, winchester, basingstoke etc), AWE who have lots of different jobs on offer and half day fridays, EDS who have loads of big contracts and will take any old retard on in my experience.

Consider contracting for the big bucks too.

ClunkintheUK

13-06-13, 09:48 AM

Yeah, i'm a country boy at heart. Born in Guildford, lived in Churt for 8 years, wish I'd never left really.

I see your point about specific languages. I was learning Java more for the object orientated way of thinking, and true programming languages rather then scripting languages.

Will check out IBM, AWE and EDS, see what I can find.

Long term, yes I think contracting is my goal. I am like you (according to you similar thread a few months ago) I like new challenges and places, so contracting would be excellent for that, but wouldn't I really need more experience with "Programmer" in my job title?

Littlepeahead

13-06-13, 09:53 AM

I live in Chelmsford. Personally I think the town centre is rubbish, chain shops rather than anything independent, and the pubs of a weekend are full of TOWIE types but I don't really go into town anyway.

On the plus side you can buy a 3 bedroom house with garage and garden for under £250k within 20 minutes walk to the station or bike it there in 5 minutes. Trains are then 30 minutes to Liverpool Street.

There are plenty of nice village on the outskirts if you really fancy getting away from the city.

And despite what people like Fallout might tell you, we have some excellent roads for riding at the weekends. Come to TOGMIE in August and find out for yourself.

Sir Trev

13-06-13, 11:59 AM

...EDS who have loads of big contracts and will take any old retard on in my experience.

Good luck finding EDS these days - they were taken over by HP four years ago. And less of the retard as I had enough sense to take voluntary redundancy after 11 years when HP started getting rid of all the ex EDS people.

ClunkintheUK

13-06-13, 12:55 PM

sniff

13-06-13, 01:03 PM

I've worked in finance for the last 15 odd years. Can't do anything else so have to keep on doing same stuff. I'm moving in the next few months to Ramsgate, Kent (cant wait) had enough of living in London so time to get out. And I'll have to learn a new trade as doubt there is much use for me there.

Littlepeahead

13-06-13, 03:51 PM

OK scratch EDS. but thanks for some of the suggestions.

Not sure I could persuade my better half to go to the East of London, though the three bedroom house with garage and garden sounds really appealing right now.

Though really, to have a spare room so I can don't have to do all my computer work on a 13 inch laptop and a garage (just see how many two wheeled thing I can fit in that space), and some time to potter about in them, I would be sound as a pound.

Well to give you an idea, this is a house in the next road to my mum in the village I grew up in. 10 minutes ride from Chelmsford, and 5 minutes ride from the A12. You get a lot for your money, and I could even send my nephews round to clean the bike if you moved in here.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-26611812.html

Fallout

13-06-13, 08:24 PM

That'd be about 200k in my neck of the woods.

Tomor

13-06-13, 09:20 PM

That'd be about 200k in my neck of the woods.

And the rest Si! semi-detached, 3 bed and a garage!!

Littlepeahead

13-06-13, 09:53 PM

Yeah Si but that's because you live there. Lowers the tone of the neighbourhood and house prices plummet.

Phoenix22

13-06-13, 10:22 PM

Worked in London for a while, hated it. The Luftwaffe didn't do a good enough job on the place. ;)

Fallout

13-06-13, 11:36 PM

And the rest Si! semi-detached, 3 bed and a garage!!

Same spec as my house which was less than £200k, young Thomas!

timwilky

14-06-13, 10:31 AM

I would be careful thinking learning Java, PHP MySQL will get you the job. I have 30+ years of software development behind me. Working for a large global company I now only see very little UK development. We have set up our own software "factory" in India.

The key to a career in software is to know your target deployment environment. I am by profession a Mechanical Engineer. Although I drifted into software all those years ago, I have always worked for engineering or R&D organisations. These days even though I occasionally do cut code, it is the value add that is in demand. Systems integration, end to end applications, project management.

You say you are from a financial background. Sell yourself as being the expert in that environment that knows software. You can get spotty urks that have attended the week course in the latest whizz bag development tool. But tell them to work on a tool for governance of derivatives trading and they would be completely lost.

Having learned java, you just know the language constructs and principles of object orientated design. You then need to do the difficult part and start to learn how to use/apply it. In my case it was understanding at the time J2EE, LDAP and JNDI, X509 certificates and PKI, struts and every new framework, design pattern that comes along. If you are targetting web deployment you then need to start to understand JSP, Servlets etc. That then takes you into application servers, Tomcat, Websphere Jboss etc. then you need to start with Apache, mod-jk. Suddenly you find that your customer want 3 tier architectures. You have to learn how to implement a MVC design, separation of business logic, data and static content etc. You then have to learn about security implications etc. FFS you only wanted to build a web app. In the real world there is a lot more.

If you are serious about wanting to code for your living. You could do a lot worse than learn a tool that has huge potential. Oracle Apex. I have seen some pretty good business applications starting to emerge from that environment.

Bri w

14-06-13, 11:11 AM

Well to give you an idea, this is a house in the next road to my mum in the village I grew up in. 10 minutes ride from Chelmsford, and 5 minutes ride from the A12. You get a lot for your money, and I could even send my nephews round to clean the bike if you moved in here.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-26611812.html

£235k....!!!

We've just bought a 3 bed detatched, gardens, garage and a view of the Nth Yorks Moors... £125k.:smt041

Get yourself up north lad.

timwilky

14-06-13, 11:24 AM

Bri

FFS shut up, it is these southerners with more money than sense that are inflating our house prices. I have one colleague that sold his london 3 bed semi house and gloated about having the brass to buy a 5 bedroom detach with money for the right holiday home.

ClunkintheUK

15-06-13, 09:01 AM

Thanks Tim. That was the pointer to the next stage I was looking for too. I know that knowing the language alone would not get me a job in software, I was just unsure the sort of things I should be looking into.

You also say the code is produced in programming factories, but in order to tell them what to do, I need to be able to write the code myself, even if I don't actually write it.

I am more a portfolio analysis guy rather then trading governance. ;) Big data, patterns and data modelling/mining. Getting more involved in the systems integration, well more workflow integration, the the achilles heel is its all VBA which is only used in finance as far as I can see.

wyrdness

13-08-13, 03:52 PM

ClunkintheUK

13-08-13, 04:07 PM

Wyrdness, What about at the junior level. Would love to be going in at 60K, but in reality I know my @rse from my elbow but doubt I could convince someone that I can solve all their computer problems. I am actively looking now.

Mark_h

13-08-13, 04:41 PM

Problem is employers are finding it difficult to import cheap Indian labour. So if they can't outsource the development they now have to start recruiting native EU types which brings the market rate back up again and hoovers up all the mediocre developers who used to spend their days trolling forums instead.

If you are looking to re-skill, look into financial compliance as a niche. It's not sexy but they go to prison if it's not done so some pressure to do it and being non-sexy fewer people specialising in it.

ClunkintheUK

13-08-13, 05:19 PM

Its not really much of a re-skill for me. Its really where most of my experience lies, well its one of the natural senior positions for a "risk officer".

Mark_h

13-08-13, 06:23 PM

With the FCA, Dodd Frank and Miffid on the horizon got to be loads of opportunities out there. If you can code a bit AND understand the market should be 911's and red braces all the way surely.

ClunkintheUK

13-08-13, 06:31 PM

Yeah, doesn't work like that. Most of finance is an industry like any other, albeit well paid. Compliance is one of those things that banks have to pay for, not want to pay for. Plus to have to deal with gits who think they are gods gift because they lucked out. The people signing the pay cheques don't care if their traders get sent to prison, as long as they don't loose money or end up there themselves so they spend just enough for plausible deniability. Remember that they also profit, and by a lot more, when traders manipulate the market.

tonyk

13-08-13, 06:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallouthttp://forums.sv650.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=2876472#post2876472)
...EDS who have loads of big contracts and will take any old retard on in my experience.

Good luck finding EDS these days - they were taken over by HP four years ago. And less of the retard as I had enough sense to take voluntary redundancy after 11 years when HP started getting rid of all the ex EDS people.

Chears Guys...........i'm still with them..

OP i have no input...sorry.

leebex

13-08-13, 08:04 PM

On the plus side you can buy a 3 bedroom house with garage and garden for under £250k within 20 minutes walk to the station or bike it there in 5 minutes. Trains are then 30 minutes to Liverpool Street.

.

how much!! blimey makes Colchester seem cheap, and only 20mins further up the road, and the bonus is were even further away from all that towie sh!t lol

Paul the 6th

13-08-13, 08:24 PM

just a quick shout for chiswick: I've always slated london for it's ego-driven get-out-of-my-way atmosphere and lack of community feel - just spent the weekend in Chiswick, what a revelation, felt like a bustling village on the high street, people smiling at each other and chatting. Defo worth a look if you're looking to relocate but stay within london for work.

JamesMio

14-08-13, 11:09 AM

On the plus side you can buy a 3 bedroom house with garage and garden for under £250k...

Wow.

If you're in the software game, you can work from anywhere.

Here's what your £250k would stretch to around these parts...

http://www.dgspc.co.uk/details.asp?id=23168

http://www.dgspc.co.uk/details.asp?id=23557

http://www.dgspc.co.uk/details.asp?id=24720

http://www.dgspc.co.uk/details.asp?id=25070

Straight up the M6, see you in 5 hours.

SvNewbie

14-08-13, 11:49 AM

ClunkintheUK

14-08-13, 02:39 PM

Wow.

If you're in the software game, you can work from anywhere.

Here's what your £250k would stretch to around these parts...

http://www.dgspc.co.uk/details.asp?id=23168

http://www.dgspc.co.uk/details.asp?id=23557

http://www.dgspc.co.uk/details.asp?id=24720

http://www.dgspc.co.uk/details.asp?id=25070

Straight up the M6, see you in 5 hours.

Thanks. I am already sold on the not commuting into the city every day part. There is always some entitled wazzuck moving towards the traffic island deliberately so you cannot get past. Plus for that money round here you MIGHT be able to find a 2 bed, but it'll be ex-council. Actually ex-council are often the better flats, just that the whole estate is unlikely to be Ex-.

It does grate to work you watsits off for a salary that might just cover a 1 bed flat, paying 1/3 of your salary in tax (and another 1/3 in rent/mortgage), which goes to pay for housing benefits/cheaper rent for people who don't appear to do much with their time, but get the three bed flat cos they can't keep their legs/flys closed.

nikon70

14-08-13, 03:33 PM

go contracting ;) companies will pay top money for good software programmers, vb, java, c# etc (i know) :)

some insist you work onsite, others allow you to work from home.

either way you'll be able to work 6 months and take 6 months off (depending on your outgoings etc) with a family of 5 my wife seems to spend it quicker than I can earn it!

ClunkintheUK

14-08-13, 04:21 PM

Yeah, contracting is appealing, but i really need to gain some more experience developing Java and/or C#. VB is mostly used in Finance, which is fine but I won;t gain the experience in other languages, as they keep those developers pretty separate. Also at the moment i'd rather work on site. I don't have the space to work at home.

Paul the 6th

14-08-13, 07:59 PM

It does grate to work you watsits off for a salary that might just cover a 1 bed flat, paying 1/3 of your salary in tax (and another 1/3 in rent/mortgage), which goes to pay for housing benefits/cheaper rent for people who don't appear to do much with their time, but get the three bed flat cos they can't keep their legs/flys closed.

I did look in an estate agents window on the high street - average house prices were around £250k-£300k for 1 bed studio apartments with large living rooms. Literally insane.

Paul the 6th

14-08-13, 08:00 PM

Next time your down let me know. I now live in Ealing just up the road but still work on Chiswick Business Park.

Will do buddy, not gonna be down til october now but I'll give you a shout :)