Battery/Charging issue

[hongman]

I'M BACK!!

:eek:

Alright guys and gals, long time no speak! Time for me to stop hiding :thumbdown:

I have a long list of stuff to fox on the SV before its road worthy again...so lets make a start.

On my last trip to Wales last year my battery stopped charging itself. Bumps and jump starts fine, so I'm thinking alternator or r/r?

r/r was replaced with a CBR one prior to my ownership.

Whipped my battery out yesterday, and woke up this morning to find it had finally finished charging. Its been standing for about 10 hours and the multimeter is only reading upper 9's to mid 10v, hops around a bit.

I'm guessing this means the battery is facked?

If so, where can I get a decent (read, cheap) replacement?

Once the new battery arrives how should I go about diagnosing where the fault lies? Is there anyway I can make do with the battery I have now, even to just find the fault? I;m wary about screwing up a new battery while fault-finding :(

[Bibio]

Hong. battery's just give up m8 and there might not be anything wrong with your bikes wiring/charging system.

i just got a new battery for mine as it was not holding a decent charge (1 week and it was dead).

ebay £34 delivered for a Yuasa.

[hongman]

Hiya Lance :)

I guess that is always a possibility - however prior to that the battery has always been spectacularly reliable.

What would be the way to check where the fault lies?

Also if you have the seller's name that would be most kind :D

[Bibio]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Yuasa-Maintenance-Free-VRLA-Motorcycle-Battery-YTX12BS-/251292421852?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3a82320edc

don't matter m8 battery's are most unreliable. pretty much given if the battery is indeed loosing charge than its fubar.

i was getting a bit worried about you. nice to see you nice :-)

[hongman]

Thanks :) I'm fine, just had a manic year and only just being able to get my head above water...

OK silly question. New battery - comes fully charged or do I need to stick on for a quick top up?

I'll install the battery, arm myself with a multimeter - then what?

[Bibio]

it comes with the acid out of the battery.

take the covers (keep in one piece and don't throw away as you will use them later) off the acid pack, peal the protector from the top of the battery, place charge pack above holes in battery and push down very firmly in one go to brake the seals on the pack, acid will slowly bubble into battery. once the pack is empty wait 10 mins and remove empty pack. wait another 30 mins and place the plastic cap strip that come with the acid pack into the holes in the battery. leave over night or a good 6hrs to let the battery charge up then put it in your bike.

[hongman]

What then?

I want to check I have the right voltages in the right places at the right times so I dont end up stranded because there really is a charging issue lol

[Bibio]

start with a fresh battery as its fubar anyway. there is a guide on here somewhere detailing what you need to check but you need a good state battery to start with or you will get all sorts of funny readings.

[wideguy]

Simply pouring the acid into the battery does produce electricity, but your new battery won't be fully charged. Best to put it on a charger to fully charge it before use. Depending on how you use it, if you don't fully charge it with a charger, it's possible that it won't ever reach full charge, and somewhere along the line, it won't be able to reach full charge.

[jambo]

Hong!
You need a new battery, or a new multimeter, 9v is not OK :)

Once the bike starts up with the new, charged battery put a multimeter across the terminals and rev the bike with and without the lights you should get something like:

Bike off: 12.5V (ish)
Bike at Idle: 12.5 - 13V (ish)
Bike @ 5,000 rpm with lights - ~14V

If you're getting 12v flat then the bike isn't charging, if you're getting much north of 14.5V then it's over-charging. At that point take the tail plastics off and check the reg/rec by unplugging it and checking the alternator is putting out ~80-90V AC @5,000 rpm, and that the reg/rec is outputting 13-14v.

The Haynes Manual has this test in it and if you do a search for "Charging circuit test" on the forum you should find better written versions of the above with more accurate numbers.

Jambo

[Geodude]

Have a read through this fault finding guide (http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf) (so simple even i can follow it) HTH





Ps nice to have you back :)

[hongman]

Thanks guys.

I received my new battery and just prepped it.

The acid kept stalling while emptying into the battery so I put a needle into the top of the acid bottle and whoosh, problem solved haha. Room stinks of egg now though.

Capped the battery and put a meter on it, already pushing out 12.5v. I can still hear the acid fizzing away so ill test again in the morning.

Hopefully will get time to install into bike and report back this weekend :-)

[wideguy]

Charge it fully first, or at least ride it long enough to fully charge it the first ride. Batteries tend to have memories, and you don't want your new one to think half charged is actually fully charged.

[hongman]

I'll stick it on charge overnight then - but if the charger see's 12.5v coming from the battery, I'm sure it will just trickle to maintain?

[Biker Biggles]

I'll stick it on charge overnight then - but if the charger see's 12.5v coming from the battery, I'm sure it will just trickle to maintain?

12.7 is fully charged,and yes it should be charged up on a proper charger before use if you want to get the best life and performance out of it.Many people dont bother,and it will work fine but possibly will expire sooner than otherwise.

[NTECUK]

13.2 volts fully charged good battery.
To get the best out of it ues a bike speck charger .

[hongman]

Ok, results are in. Doesnt look good.

Battery off bike - 13.4v
Idle 14.6-8v
Lights on, Idle - 13.4v
5k RPM, Lights Off - 9v
5k RPM, Lights On - 9v

What do we make of these findings....

[NTECUK]

Check the regulator and conections

[aesmith]

Ok, results are in. Doesnt look good.

Battery off bike - 13.4v
Idle 14.6-8v
Lights on, Idle - 13.4v
5k RPM, Lights Off - 9v
5k RPM, Lights On - 9v

What do we make of these findings....
Is that measured across the battery? A true 9V would mean either completely flat, or a really heavy discharge. If the latter, it would flatten the battery in no time, minutes rather than hours. I'm wondering if you have a bad connection, maybe vibrating when the engine's revved and giving a false reading. I mean even if it wasn't charging at all you shouldn't see 9V.

[svshaz]

The link by geodude says to rev bike to 2,500 rpm for first voltage checks. I would of thought 'idle' was slower than that?

[jambo]

Ok, battery seems fine.

The reg rec has 5 wires, 3 yellow from alternator to reg/rec. At about 5k they should have around 80v AC between all 3 (1-2, 1-3, 2-3). Plug that back in and unplug the red & black wires coming out. These should give you around 14v DC at 5k.

Jambo
Sent from my thingie

[hongman]

Can anyone give me a quick guide of where the bolts are that holds on the side cowl - I had a quick go and something seems amiss?

Cheers guys. Fwiw I put money on r/r. Because it always is!

[Biker Biggles]

Apart from the obvious ones there is one each side under the raer of the tail unit often obscured by crud from the rear wheel.Roughly just inboard of the indicator stalks.

[hongman]

Finally found a spare morning to have a go and again, another hurdle :|

The reg/rec on this bike is not standard. And now I recall something about the previous owner telling me its been replaced by a CBR one...

The connector block on the bike is a single block with 3 yellows, 1 black with white stripe and 1 red wire going into it.

The actual reg/rec on the bike currently is bigger than stock - 5 wires coming out of it, 3 black, 1 black with red, and 1 black with white.

There are a few markings on it, all serarate:

RS41
33E2
51
2A10

How do I test/fix this now :(

[jambo]

Hong, see how that's connected to the loom. The only additional wire is black and white stripe. It'll either be unconnected to anything in which case no need to test, or it'll be connected to the black or red where it hits the loom. In which case test it along with the corresponding color.

Jambo

[aesmith]

Same number of wires isn't it? At a guess, the three Black probably go to the stator (originally Yellow), Black+Red and Black+White go to the battery. A quick check with the meter will confirm this, and also which way round.

[hongman]

I am so out of my depth :|

Can anyone confirm what regrec I currently have, I'd rather just find another one, throw it on and retest the voltages

[timwilky]

Hong try to give us a diagram, or photo of the connector and wires etc.

On stock, you would expect 3 yellow wires to come from the Alternator plus a pair of wires providing battery connectivity.

Do your 3 black connect to the 3 yellow?

If so I guess the black/red is positive feed to the battery and the Black/white the neg.

The figures you have given show something is out.

Disconnect the wiring from the R/R and measure the AC voltage on the 3 yellow pairs. think of the 3 as a,b,and c. So AB, AC, and BC. You should be getting about 80v, remember to set the multimeter on the ACV setting.

Sorry if this is teaching your granny to suck eggs. But before condemning the R/R it makes sense to ensure that the alternator is doing its job.

[hongman]

Update

Jambo is f*cking awesome and took time out to explain this to me over the phone, so I understood what it was I was actually testing for and why! I now have a decent grasp of how the SV charging system works :-)

Tested across all 3 alternator yellow wires which produced healthy ac voltage (80v @ 6-7k)

Tested voltage was the same on the battery terminals as it was on the other 2 pins on the reg rec connector

Continuity test across the reg rec battery pins

All voltages actually came back in range with the reg rec all hooked up again - so Christ knows how I got those strange results before.

Only difference is this time I had someone holding the multimeter probes for me while I revved the bike. Maybe last time they were not on properly?

Left the battery in the bike all hooked up, shall test v's tomorrow and see what the results are.

But for now I just need to sort the rear end out and it's time for tax / mot - just in time for winter!!