How Good Are OEM Ohlins Forks?

[squirrel_hunter]

Some bikes are fitted with Ohlins forks from the factory, but how good are they when compared to other bikes forks of the same type?

I'm thinking comparing non Ohlins R1 with Ohlins RSV of the same year, which is better? Then if the OEM Ohlins are better is there a difference between the different Ohlins forks, for example 675R against RSV?

I know none of these are the same as the Ohlins that are run in BSB/ WSBK etc but then these aren't built to the same budget and would cost more than the bikes that run them. So which would be the best fork on a road bike?

[andrewsmith]

Ohlins are like any other suspension manufacturer, build to a clients spec and price, along with their top draw racing items (which starts most R&D projects like Showa Big Piston Forks).

With bikes like RSV4 its part of the bling factor (joe public wants to be able to buy what the riders have). With Ducati its the R&D on adaptive suspension that ohlins have done (they're market leaders in the technology and the car tech has been transferred over).

Comparing a Yam to a Aprilia maybe a hard one, as Yamaha had controlling stake in Ohlins for about 15 years so were using their in house supplier (so to speak)

[Sid Squid]

Bear in mind that Yamaha own Ohlins - that hardly means they're just gold bits with a sticker on, but in my - limited - experience have less adjustment than actual bought-from-Ohlins parts. One example of this was the 'Ohlins' shocks on the special editions of the XJR12/1300. Perfectly good units but not at all special.
Many bikes with special suspension from the factory have a smaller range of adjustment than would otherwise be the case, rather like standard shocks - there may be lots of clicks, but they're in a range that may be better or worse but wouldn't actually be wrong as such.

[squirrel_hunter]

Forgot about the Ohlins - Yamaha tie up. Replace R1 with ZXR or GSXR or CBR.

While I accept that the OEM forks and shocks for that matter are not the same as built for top racing teams are they better then non standard?

I suppose the best example I can think of is Triumphs 675 and 675R. How much better are the Ohlins forks over the standard sports fork that the 675 has?

[wideguy]

Structurally, forks are pretty simple, and it's easy to make them so they are stiff enough to control side loads and braking loads on the wheel and slide up and down smoothly.
I'd say any of them, if sprung and valved for your weight and the way you like to ride, then adjusted by you as necessary or desired, are far better than most everyone's riding capabilities. I watched a very good racer take a bone stock SV650 with clip-on bars and go a second a lap faster than a whole region of club racers on SV's they'd been developing for two years, some with Ohlins shocks and GSXR front ends, and engines bored 2mm oversize. After he put rear sets on it so he wasn't scraping the pegs on every corner, he went 2 seconds a lap quicker than the best of the others. His comment when I asked him about it was "It's a little soft for racing, but it works pretty well."

[NTECUK]

2013 675 olins has more travel,
I prefer the KYB on the 675 over my old RSV fragile Ohlins

[squirrel_hunter]

Fragile, how so?

[NTECUK]

leve it for 6 week it would leak,
Gen 2 RSV front spindle clamps are very thin

[NTECUK]

Little add on.
The Gen 1 rsv had stronger spindle clamps.
And the new seals are now double lipped.
But as stated oe ones do differ because of what the manufactuers specify.
You could also say not all KYB s are all born equal too.I do aprecheate the new 675 is very diffrent from the outgoing modle,And the two old modles i tried coould have had issues .(2007 & 2009) Even though i did click the adjusters on both.

[SV650Racer]

OEM Ohlins are sprung and valved for road use..TBH not much between the OEM and R&T forks purchased direct off Ohlins other than that. Aprilia run a few little cosmetic tweeks which wont come on the R&T official fork.

Have raced on OEM Ohlins and just re-spring them and fit a K-Tech upgrade valve kit...awesome, truely awesome forks!.

After R&T forks there are huge differences..

BTW Yamaha only have a 5% stake in Ohlins now.

[NTECUK]

if your going to re valve and spring them is it not cheaper to do that with the KYB etc

[SV650Racer]

if your going to re valve and spring them is it not cheaper to do that with the KYB etc

No The K-Tech R&T upgrade revalve kit and springs is cheaper than the race 20mm SSRK valve kit and comp adjusters for the stock forks..and the Ohlins will be way better than a 20mm kitted stock KYB or Showa fork when your racing...

The revalved Ohlins will be similar spec wise only to putting a full 25mm or 30mm cartridge kit into a KYB fork..and those kits fitted are £1000 plus

Plus my Ducati came with Ohlins anyway:cool:

[wideguy]

..and the Ohlins will be way better than a 20mm kitted stock KYB or Showa fork when your racing...
Perhaps. I'm sure it depends on your skill level and style of riding. I also suspect many racers might prefer the feel of the KYB or Showa forks. Mostly I think, outside of top level professional racers, most won't see any change in their lap times at all, outside of getting whatever forks are on their bike sprung and valved so they feel confident with the front end.

[NTECUK]

For mortals like my self is it worth the extra ?
Not sure if the opening poster is racing or for track days .
I've only ever managed one (for my 40th ) .
And spend 99.9999999999999% of my time on B roads
I did look at the R but the deal on the std was too good to pass up.
And to be honest yes the "bling "aspects nice

[SV650Racer]

Perhaps. I'm sure it depends on your skill level and style of riding. I also suspect many racers might prefer the feel of the KYB or Showa forks. Mostly I think, outside of top level professional racers, most won't see any change in their lap times at all, outside of getting whatever forks are on their bike sprung and valved so they feel confident with the front end.

Ive raced on alot of forks over the past 15 years..from stock right through to gas forks..and yes you can feel the difference between them and yes it does make a difference even at club level.

On OEM forks such as Showa/KYB etc a 20mm piston kit will work fine but yes there is a step up in difference between that kit..a full cartridge insert and the full race forks such as Ohlins/Ktech or kit Showa etc.

Riding on the revalved OEM Ducati Showa forks with a 30mm Ohlins kit I had last season compared to the Ohlins OEM forks with revalve kit I have this season, there is a huge difference in terms of feel and confidence. The OEM were good but the Ohlins are much better.

This is for race only though...not trackdays or road.:cool:

[SV650Racer]

For mortals like my self is it worth the extra ?
Not sure if the opening poster is racing or for track days .
I've only ever managed one (for my 40th ) .
And spend 99.9999999999999% of my time on B roads
I did look at the R but the deal on the std was too good to pass up.
And to be honest yes the "bling "aspects nice

Doesnt matter if your a steady road rider..when it comes to suspension most people always say its surely not worth it..until you have ridden on the fork or shock that is the best you can get for your own riding then its hard to get across that yes even a mere mortal will benefit.

Trouble is..you dont need the full race kitted forks or shock on the road..ive seen a guy running full race only inserts on the road and is says it wasnt worth it as it feels harsh and horrid..well it will be as its not the right kit for him and what he is using the bike for.

There are always benefits if you go about it the right way.

[NTECUK]

I have mine booked in with Race Engineering Dunmow to set up the KYB's.
As its cheap for the benifits you get,And dam difficult on your own at home setting Sag

[SV650Racer]

I have mine booked in with Race Engineering Dunmow to set up the KYB's.
As its cheap for the benifits you get,And dam difficult on your own at home setting Sag

Thats a good start..:smt023

[wideguy]

Ive raced on alot of forks over the past 15 years..from stock right through to gas forks..and yes you can feel the difference between them and yes it does make a difference even at club level.
YOU can feel the difference, but, aren't you a top club racer? Multi-time champion?
I was a mid-pack expert level club racer, and I CAN'T feel the difference, other than between a fork that's set up the way I like it, and one that isn't.

[NTECUK]

YOU can feel the difference, but, aren't you a top club racer? Multi-time champion?
I was a mid-pack expert level club racer, and I CAN'T feel the difference, other than between a fork that's set up the way I like it, and one that isn't.
I think you have it there.
I always had issues with the feel of my rsv , Vague and little feed back.Even after a trip to a local suspension guy.
The 675 is so totally different in its feedback.
15 mins fiddeling with the front had it nice for the tharsh to and from work.
The back well needs a final fettle and sag to be spot on .

[Bibio]

slight derail. i have often wanted to get my forks re-stacked to suit my riding preferance which is b roads and single track roads where i find the fast compression has not got fast enough blow threw to soak up the bumps and instead tends to ride them. my problem is that most if not all places that do fork work tend to cater for the track guy/girl which is of no use to me as i want mine set up for rough road use. its not bad but i think it could be better.

btw, my forks are gsxr 600/750 k3-4 showas and my rear shock is a custom nitron.

[wideguy]

I re-valved my RC51 forks, and I got to tell the people who provided the valves and springs not only what I weighed with gear, but that I wanted to ride back roads, some very bumpy, that I liked to ride them at a fast pace, and that I prefer suspension on the firm side of normal. They provided me with valving and set up suggestions that made me very happy. Race Tech. In the U.S., but there must be comparable services in the U.K.?

[squirrel_hunter]

Not sure if the opening poster is racing or for track days .

Road use is what I'm looking at.

Which makes the following quite interesting:

OEM Ohlins are sprung and valved for road use..TBH not much between the OEM and R&T forks purchased direct off Ohlins other than that.

Now...

For mortals like my self is it worth the extra ?

That is essentially my question. A set of OEM Ohlins is roughly double the price of a comparable non Ohlins OEM sports bike fork. But is there any real benefit?

Doesnt matter if your a steady road rider..when it comes to suspension most people always say its surely not worth it..until you have ridden on the fork or shock that is the best you can get for your own riding then its hard to get across that yes even a mere mortal will benefit.

Now this I would agree with. My current SV runs Ohlins springs at the front and an Ohlins shock at the rear that I've set up. The difference between my bike and a standard SV is night and day.

But then I come back to my original question, would correctly set up OEM Ohlins be better or more worthwhile then correctly set up OEM other?

[Bibio]

i doubt it, but then i think it would depend on what bike the forks are originally off. i dont think ohlins use different technology to any other unless that is they are gas piston. each maker use their own style of piston which control the flow threw the shims. aftermarket companies like K-Tech or racetech have their own versions to better the OEM forks. so depending on what type of riding you do i think the aftermarket bunch would stack the shims for their pistons how you want it.

as a side note one of the reasons i got the k3-4 GSXR ones is that the pistons are supposed to be pretty good and just need the shim stack arranged different to make them better.

[wideguy]

My current SV runs Ohlins springs at the front and an Ohlins shock at the rear that I've set up. The difference between my bike and a standard SV is night and day.

I re-valved the stock shock on my RC51, and the difference is night and day too.
If you really just want to be sure you have the best, you'd better get big piston forks, I've heard they're better. Just kidding.
Since I want to live to keep riding, my street pace is well below what I will do on a race track, so I really am not using even the stock components anywhere near their capabilities, most of the time anyway.
Perhaps it helps me that I learned to ride in the early '70s on bikes that not only had horrible suspensions, but their frames were flexible and the brakes were often feeble.

[NTECUK]

I kinda look at it this way.
Every time I arrive at a corner the thing that's governing my speed is the loss of view.
Same roads that the RSV and ohlins its would get a flap on the bummy exit of a set of bends the KYB's cope fine.
So its good enough as a road bike ;)

[SV650Racer]

YOU can feel the difference, but, aren't you a top club racer? Multi-time champion?
I was a mid-pack expert level club racer, and I CAN'T feel the difference, other than between a fork that's set up the way I like it, and one that isn't.

Jeez you americans are very sensitive and very quick to jib at others just because their experiences are different :rolleyes:


Just because you cant feel the difference doesnt mean i cant either. From spending the past five years as a race coach I have found there are plenty of people who couldnt even tell me the difference between an under inflated tyre or over inflated..let alone feel anything on the suspension between settings. I ride with alot of feel..my tech at a meeting put 30 psi in my front tyre same as what my husband runs and I came in after feeling the bike walk more on the tyre..my prefered pressure is 33psi..he hadnt told me he had set it lower but I could feel it.

I dont see what championships have to do with it..as an aside to the above Ive been out with novice racers which have a huge amount of feel for whats happening..

horses for courses isnt it..maybe not relevent to what the OP was on about strictly but race or road..there is a cross over.

[jambo]

Here's where I'd go with this:

Some bikes have higher quality forks than others. If a manufacturer does an "R" version and throws Ohlins at the bike front & rear, I'd expect those components to be better than the ones on the standard bike. Each manufacturer, however, has a range of products to suit your budget and as others have said, some Ohlins components have been built to a tighter budget than others (the XJR SP versions have already been given as an example).

Showa make the standard SV forks, and were responsible for the front forks of the Honda RCV up until the last couple of seasons. What price point, springs, shims and other settings the manufacturer has decided on probably make a significantly bigger difference than who made the fork.

To some extent there's a bling factor. Yamaha, Triumph or anyone else could make an R version with KYB components, but they tend to choose a big name manufacturer like Showa or Ohlins to underline that this model has different components, and is worth a premium.

Those are my thoughts, I'm no kind of guru but I'd say for most of us if you had decent cartridge forks, setup would be more important than brand. A good suspension company should be able to set forks up to suit with conditions other than smooth anyway :)

Jambo

[wideguy]

Jeez you americans are very sensitive and very quick to jib at others just because their experiences are different :rolleyes:


Just because you cant feel the difference doesnt mean i cant either. From spending the past five years as a race coach I have found there are plenty of people who couldnt even tell me the difference between an under inflated tyre or over inflated..let alone feel anything on the suspension between settings. I ride with alot of feel..my tech at a meeting put 30 psi in my front tyre same as what my husband runs and I came in after feeling the bike walk more on the tyre..my prefered pressure is 33psi..he hadnt told me he had set it lower but I could feel it.

I dont see what championships have to do with it..as an aside to the above Ive been out with novice racers which have a huge amount of feel for whats happening..

horses for courses isnt it..maybe not relevent to what the OP was on about strictly but race or road..there is a cross over.
I meant to compliment you on your racing success, and I tend to believe that, for the most part, top racers DO have good feel for what's happening with their front end. As you said, so too do some riders who are brand new to the track. And some who've never been on a track.
From my racing experience, front end feel is only important if you are entering corners fast enough to be very close to the limit of traction. I wasn't good at saving front end slides, so I tried hard to avoid even pushing the front. (I was old when I raced 46-51) Besides my brain, this was my big limiting factor.
Anyway, I think, if you are going to enter corners at the limit of your front tires traction, you better have good feel for the front. If you have that necessary feel, you will probably be well served by having the very best forks.
If you don't corner like that, or can't feel what's going on anyway, top quality forks aren't likely to help you at all.

[SV650Racer]

I meant to compliment you on your racing success, and I tend to believe that, for the most part, top racers DO have good feel for what's happening with their front end. As you said, so too do some riders who are brand new to the track. And some who've never been on a track.
From my racing experience, front end feel is only important if you are entering corners fast enough to be very close to the limit of traction. I wasn't good at saving front end slides, so I tried hard to avoid even pushing the front. (I was old when I raced 46-51) Besides my brain, this was my big limiting factor.
Anyway, I think, if you are going to enter corners at the limit of your front tires traction, you better have good feel for the front. If you have that necessary feel, you will probably be well served by having the very best forks.
If you don't corner like that, or can't feel what's going on anyway, top quality forks aren't likely to help you at all.

No worries..

I do ride very front bias...seeing front grip as first priority and then sorting out the rear end grip once im pointing the way i want to go..I wish i was less sensitive as i can end up concentrating too much on it rather than just riding. I love those guys that can just get on anything..literally..with a proper nasty setup and still go as fast:(

[_Stretchie_]

What's caught your eye on Fleabay?

[squirrel_hunter]

You know me too well.