Track days and tyre warm up

[Fallout]

Going to be venturing into my first track day soon. Just need to pull my finger out of my bum pipe.

I have some Metzler Racetec part worn tyres which will just be used for the track. I don't particularly want to faff about with tyre warmers (or want the expense) and I'm more than happy to just head out and learn how the tyres behave and warm up on the track. In fact, this is what I will be doing.

Still, I though it'd be interesting to get an idea from people in the know as to how they'll perform, and an idea of how quickly they'd warm up, and at what point you'd guess they'd be ready to take some beans and proper lean. I know it's all just guess work and speculation, but really I have ZERO knowledge on how long they'll take to get temp into them. All I know is they'll take longer than a road specific compound.

[johnnyrod]

If they're treaded I'd be surprised if they take longer to warm up than road tyres, that's more of a slick problem. Usually a couple of laps is good, for me my brain is also warming up, plus if it's your first time on track you'll be easing into it as well.

[NTECUK]

its a road legal track day tyrer . so same as road trip .
if your in novice no one can use warmers so you be in the same boat as every one elses .

[The Idle Biker]

Depends largely on the length of the track, the weather on the day and how smooth you are on the throttle. 2 laps is a good rule of thumb though. I think they'll warm up quicker than road tyres if anything.

(What d'ya mean NTECUK? Novices can use warmers)

[jambo]

TIB: I've been on a couple of track days where warmers are only allowed in the top couple of groups to try and encourage people taking it seriously to select a different group to people doing their first day. I don't think it was enforced particularly, just to help people select the group appropriate to them.

Fallout: Unless you're going to get some proper lean on into the first corner you'll probably find for the first part of the day you take longer to warm up mentally than the tyres take to get sticky. By the afternoon just be a bit respectful for 2-3 laps depending on the circuit and build pace. It's not bad advice anyway really :)

Jambo

[NTECUK]

All the msv ones don't allow novice group to use warmers.
Just be sensible .on a hot day like today your only need a dozen corners .
Will a low start pressure they move and soon get up to pressure..
my super corsa goes from 32 to 36 (tpms ) in less than a mile down the back roads.

[The Idle Biker]

re: Novices excluded from using tyre warmers. Fair play, never seen that rule in force myself but I can see the sense in the rule. I expect Warmers can lead to a false sense of security.

[NTECUK]

There also the red mist .
you see someone disappearing off in the distance . you appt to go "well if he can do that on his SV .So can I on my R6 ....
then the front end tucks .......

[Fallout]

Interesting points. Yes, as a novice there will be a lot to learn, so I imagine they'll be warm long before my brain is, especially since I'll likely be trailering/vanning the bike to the track, so I won't have ridden much in the morning. I tend to take a good 10 minutes in the morning before I learn it over a lot around a corner.

So are most tracks surfaced with a more grippy asphalt? I've heard this before that everything feels more grippy on the track straight away anyway.

[NTECUK]

Imagine the smothest road you ride on ,only smother.
No one on your side of the road on that tight lefthander.
No side roads.
No hedges etc blocking your view .
Enjoy

[Fallout]

How is that fun? Where is the risk of a truck sandwich?

May have to rethinking this track day idea. :D

[NTECUK]

You can still do ground,sky,ground,sky .
;)

[Wideboy]

seriously Si you worry to much.

It's not uncommon, many people poo themselves on their first trackday but really its nothing. I've never bothered with tyre warmers as i can't be bothered with farting around with them between sessions, tyre's don't take long to warm up and riding in novice i'd be more worried about other people cutting up the inside of you in corners. You'll probably be into inter's after lunch.

But really, other people in the novice group are frigging hopeless. I understand everyone has to start somewhere but you're specifically told in the briefing not to go up the inside of people in corners or when they're lining up, this promptly goes out the window. My first trackday was at mallory park which is a very small track (but awesome), Every single corner in my first session was ruined by people carving up the inside of me, slamming on the brakes and running wide. This in turn ruined my line as i had to anchor on and so did the the people in front. It got better once i learned just to bully them out the way but just before the lunch break up one of the serial offenders cut up the inside of a benneli as he was dropping in and smashed up the left hand side of his bike. I was moved up into inters after lunch and it was loads better. No one taking stupid lines and everyone was generally more thoughtful. that was my one and only novice outing.

[Redmist]

Don't write off the warmers completely tho, yes they get a little getting used to but after my last two trackdays earlier this year, were done with temperatures below 5deg C, the first without warmers, the second with. It made a massive difference to my confidence and therefore my enjoyment of the day.

Just my tuppence input.

[Fallout]

I'm not worried at all Gav. Just like to be clued up and see what pearls of wisdom I can glean from people who have done it before. I'll obviously be powersliding one handed round every corner while reading a magazine from the off, but in order to that with maximum flamboyance, I need to accurately gauge tyre pressure.

[johnnyrod]

But really, other people in the novice group are frigging hopeless.

This. Just read some stuff on here about track tyre pressures, or better yet get the tyre guy to set them on the day for you, and just get out there. You'll soon find out what it means when people say "it isn't what you ride but how you ride it." You're not going to be doing the sort of riding where all manner of settings and things are critical, even when you're getting a bit of speed up, so don't fret over every twitch and enjoy!

Which track?

[wideguy]

Tires made for track use take longer to warm up than tires made for the street, and provide their best traction at much higher temps than street tires.
Most modern sport or super sport street tires work well on the track at anything but a full race pace. They are quite suitable for anyone on the track other than racers getting in practice time, or very experienced track day riders who can ride at a race pace. Actually, street tires are better for everyone except those racers, because, you don't need tire warmers for them, ever. By the time you've been led around a lap, they're ready, and you are unlikely to ride over their limits. Unless you're riding over your head.
Race tires taken off warmers, after a lap behind control riders, will actually cool down, and then need a fairly quick lap (or two) to get back up to temp.
First time track riders usually never get going quick enough to get race tires up to their best temp, but they usually don't go fast enough to crash on them because they aren't at their best temp either.
Tire warmers are also often a waste of money and effort because as you sit waiting to get on track, your tires cool, then cool more on the slow lap (or two) behind a control rider.
Park your bike in the sun, then worry about learning how to ride on the track. Look at your tires when you come in. Ask a few experienced track riders to look at them with you. They will recognize signs of cold shear or overheating and help you get your pressures right. Keep looking at your tires after every session. The track might be getting warmer or colder. You might be pushing the tires harder, or less hard, as you progress through the day.
Available traction for you and your bike and your tires is just that. What's working great for someone else might put you on the ground.
Part of learning to ride on the track is learning how to judge available traction as it changes, and not exceed it.