OXO: Recommend me a combi boiler

[Paul the 6th]

My old boiler is a gloworm type contraption which looks to be about 20 years old (possibly more) and in winter often gets as warm as the radiators, so it's obviously not very efficient. Also the pressure on the mixer tap in the shower isn't equal since cold is mains fed and hot is tank fed from the top of the stairs = takes a bit of faffing to get the shower to a decent temperature.

So I'm thinking rather than trying to get it serviced, look at the costs of getting a nice shiny new combi boiler which will provide mains pressure hot water and will potentially save a bit of money on the bills since it will be more efficient.

Can anyone recommend any decent brands for reliability and value? And obviously how hot the water gets? Seen them rated at different kW ratings - so is there a certain rating at which the water isn't as hot as might be preferred?

Also if anyone on here can shed a light on costs of having on installed and commissioned then that'd be grateful - seems like one of those jobs where plumbers are reluctant to give a blanket figure.. Are you allowed to mount/install it yourself and then pay someone to commission it?

Thanks in advance for all the advice :)

[Fallout]

All I can say dude is thank your lucky stars you don't have storage heaters like me! When we're freezing our body parts off in winter and running convector heaters in various rooms, we dream of gas. Sometimes I fantasize about spontaneous combustion.

On a slightly more useful note, our electric shower is about as powerful as yours, never runs out of hot water and only costs about £150 to buy and install. Probably not ideal for a gas home, but it's an option if the shower is the main problem.

[Paul the 6th]

Well this is the thing I'm putting myself in a usual umm-ing and ahh-ing situation because the old boiler is fine (could probably do with a service), the household bills aren't ridiculous and the shower is really the only issue.

But then on the other side of it - the cost of buying and installing an electric shower when hot water is already being paid for to be heated up by gas (plus the massive chew of having wiring run from the kitchen, through the ceiling to the bathroom and then decorating/fixing over where the work has been carried out), getting the boiler serviced (potential lack of parts) and any other costs, I start to think 'well I might as well just save all that money and put it towards the cost of a new boiler'... An electric shower and getting the boiler serviced will no doubt be cheaper overall - but I reckon the existing boiler might only be good for another 5-10 years absolute maximum, so why not just bite the bullet and get a new efficient unit and enjoy a powerful shower with the existing plumbing.

However just found this guys website via moneysavingexpert forums: http://www.miketheboilerman.com/newboilercost.htm

and the costs are stacking up to look around £3k for a fully building regulations compliant install (must be a condensing boiler, new gas pipes, new electric wiring, fitting of drainage for the boiler condensate, registering the install with gas-safe etc.. etc.. etc..).

Think I need to speak to the accountant lol

[Paul the 6th]

and then just read this bit:

Showers again. Performance of showers connected to combis is pretty average. Not bad, and not brilliant. Problem is, if you want a better shower, you are stuck. You have to fit a bigger combi, and then the performance won't be that much better. Adding a pump just doesn't work. The boiler itself is limiting water flow so it can deliver the temperature your shower needs.

So despite excellent cold water pressure it might not be all it's cracked up to be. Boom. Electric power shower and a service it is then.

[Specialone]

Paul, I'd choose a combi system any day of the week, electric showers are crap, a power shower doesn't heat the water, it only increases flow /pressure, also if you gain more pressure and flow, you will empty the hot water tank a lot faster, something to consider if two or three people are gonna have a shower within the hour.

If you get a decent kw boiler and you have good mains pressure it will give good results, a lot better than a standard electric shower.

There is fitting costs to a power shower too, is your header tank big enough? It will need its own supply directly from the tank by means of a essex /Sussex flange and all the pipe work to suit this.

[Paul the 6th]

cheers Phil really appreciate the info.. when I referred to a powershower I used the term to describe a high pressure electric shower but yeah a combi boiler might still be the way forward.

Just the cost of it. Wouldn't mind if there was a 0% finance deal maybe, gonna be a credit card job to get it sorted. Is it possible to do much of the work DIY and then have the official safety stuff commissioned by an appropriate person/signed off? Or would it only knock a little bit off the bill so might as well just let an proper tradesman do it?

[Paul the 6th]

p.s. what sort of kW rating would be considered decent? I'm guessing 35kW is like a decent modern 2.0 turbo diesel engine and the 28kW are like a 1.4 petrol.. I'm not used to working in these metrics :)

[Roberrrrt]

Is it possible to do much of the work DIY and then have the official safety stuff commissioned by an appropriate person/signed off? Or would it only knock a little bit off the bill so might as well just let an proper tradesman do it?

I wouldn't be doing any DIY when it comes to gas mate!

[Paul the 6th]

not the gas side Roberrrrrrrrrrt lol! I like a bit of danger in my life but I don't mess with gas, I mean like actually fitting the boiler to the wall and such, but obviously if for any reason the boiler fails then it could be attributed to the DIY part of it and any warranty would be void.

Gonna speak to some different heating engineers and see what they're saying..

[Specialone]

You could do all the donkey work as in run the pipes just no connections, you can mount the boiler etc but the flue, gas etc are left to a pro.

Btw, there is a national company advertising low cost monthly rates for installs, johnny ball is the 'celeb' endorsing it, can't remember the name tbh but I'd imagine they are higher cost compared to a small firm.

I personally would try and get a 0% cc for 18 months or add it on your mortgage and pay a small local firm, a basic swap /install using a Bosch boiler down here would be around £2-£2.5k.

[Paul the 6th]

nice cheers Phil, exactly the sort of info I'm after.

[jambo]

Last year my fairly old gas boiler had a bit of a fit, the heat exchanger cracked, depositing water onto the circuit board, and frying the electrics. Thankfully this happened in the summer and my hot water tank had an immersion heater in it so impact wasn't too bad.

Faced with a bill of about £2k for a new boiler of the same type (heating a hot water tank) or £2.5k for a combi, I figured in for a penny, in for a pound.

The guys took about 2 days to sort everything, old boiler removed, radiators power flushed (ewww) new system plumbed in and hot & cold water tanks thrown out. I am now entirely mains driven. The shower has been much better since cold & hot now come directly from mains flow instead of hot & cold tanks fractionally above the height of the shower. The system heats up quickly and works well. The controller is wireless so we can stick it in the room we want to use as a target and adjust the other radiators to suit. It's been a good investment even if it hurt at the time of install. Bills wise, I'm sure we're saving a little but it's going to take some time to offset the install costs so it's mostly down to having something that works well.

Jambo

[Paul the 6th]

lovely job Jamber's cheers dude, read lots of stuff about combi's being unreliable in comparison to non-combi traditional types, but the way they work will suit my place and the number of people living here tbh..

ta muchly :)

[NTECUK]

My sister and father in law have combi boilers.
They had to replace the power shower with instant electric ones or frezze

[maviczap]

Paul
We had a combi boiler installed about 12 years ago, replaced an ancient old one like yours.
Got a local plummer to do all the work including re-siting it in a cupboard upstairs to free some space up in the kitchen.

Just a one man band & his brother, but Corgi registered

I can't remember the cost, but he was far cheaper than the local gas shop, or any of the big names. Beware of rip off merchants who install boilers on the grant schemes, ludicrous prices.

The brand we had installed was a Volkera, and in all the years we've had it, we've had a circuit and igniter board replaced. I know that Volkera doesn't have a great reputation, but I've been happy with mine. My mum had one installed too.

Plenty of hot water for showers, but only one at a time, and if you run a tap elsewhere, then that affects the shower. But even in a house with 3 females it hasn't been a huge problem. Get a bigger rated one if this might be a problem.

Ask around for anyone with knowledge of a good one man installer and do some research on reliable brands of combi boilers

[timwilky]

I had a worcester installed. Initially it was OK then it developed a leak that screwed the circuit board.

Thankfully I had a contract, but in the 3-5 year range I have had 1new circuit board, 2 divertor valves and one heck of a load of cheap nasty leaking plastic pipe.

It has been reliable since the factory installed ancillaries have been replaced. guess they use monkeys to build them

[dirtydog]

Another option if your boiler is working properly etc is change to an unvented hot water cylinder then you'll pretty much have mains pressure hot water (most are restricted to about 3bar of pressure) unfortunately it's the cost that puts a lot of people off. A normal copper water cylinder would set you back say £200 (just a rough average) whereas an unvented of about the same capacity is around £900-£1000! Plus all the other bits like labour, pros etc and any alterations to current pipe work.

[Sid Squid]

a power shower doesn't heat the water
Plenty do - I've fitted them many times. Depending on size you may need a 45amp supply though.

[dirtydog]

Plenty do - I've fitted them many times. Depending on size you may need a 45amp supply though.

You got any links or info on those Ian?

I've only fitted 1 shower in 8 years that actually heats the water and has a pump in it

[timwilky]

There are a number of pumped electric showers, take a look at http://secure.tritonshowers.co.uk/electric-showers/t150z-pumped-thermostatic-electric-shower.html (http://secure.tritonshowers.co.uk/electric-showers/t150z-pumped-thermostatic-electric-shower.html)

[dirtydog]

I knew about the triton ones as I fitted one of those, just wondered if there were others the Ian could point me in the direction of

[dirtydog]

Oh and I've seen the galaxy one as well, the customer opted for the triton

[Specialone]

Plenty do - I've fitted them many times. Depending on size you may need a 45amp supply though.

Fair enough, I've fitted tons of the none heat power showers, never one of the heat ones.

[dirtydog]

Non heating ones are definitely more common than the heated ones

[Paul the 6th]

cheers for alllllll the input guys really appreciate it. Phil - http://www.help-link.co.uk is the one you're on about.

See with the finance package and 10 year warranty it suddenly doesn't sound so scary, but then makes the idea of looking at lower interest rate loans a good idea. Knowing it'll be £20/month for a brand new awesome boiler with guarantee is a good peace of mind.

Will have a look into it :) so what would be considered a higher rated boiler for the extra oomph? Guessing anything in the 40kW area is a bit beefier?

[hindle8907]

I recently got a whole system put in , 8 Rads , Valiant 28KW eco tec boiler and all new pipework for £2700, got the shower plumed in and its great.

[Specialone]

cheers for alllllll the input guys really appreciate it. Phil - http://www.help-link.co.uk is the one you're on about.

See with the finance package and 10 year warranty it suddenly doesn't sound so scary, but then makes the idea of looking at lower interest rate loans a good idea. Knowing it'll be £20/month for a brand new awesome boiler with guarantee is a good peace of mind.

Will have a look into it :) so what would be considered a higher rated boiler for the extra oomph? Guessing anything in the 40kW area is a bit beefier?


Yep that's the one.
When you look at the spec of a boiler, look at its litres per minute rate, the higher the number the more heated water it's capable of delivering providing the mains incoming is up to it.

[yorkie_chris]

Paul, I'd choose a combi system any day of the week, electric showers are crap,

+1

A decent combi will give you a shower like a high pressure steam cleaner

[Bluefish]

Anything at or above 28kw could be considered rerasonably powerfull and give plenty of hot water, unless your address is Buckingham Palace. Ps on that ten year warrenty I would find out exactly what is covered, but it does seem like a good deal.