Debate - AWE Protests

[daveyrach]

Morning All

It may just be me but....

I live very close to AWE in Aldermaston (The Atomic Weapons Establishment) where they manufacture and maintain warheads for the UK nuclear deterrent. Recently there has been protestors who make my journey to work a nightmare as it takes me more or less right past the gate.

Am I the only one thinking these people who travel from Japan, Holland and the US to protest about the UK's nuclear deterrent should shove off and those who are British citizens should do something useful for society.

I agree Nuclear weapons are evil and a twisted use of force but they are there as a deterrent, it's not like the UK or any other Nuclear power are threatening anyone with them.

Long and short stop protesting get a job and do something useful for society, the govt will not get rid of their deterrent especially in the world we live in.

Rant Over.

[Fallout]

I respect their commitment to their cause, it's just a shame that they have no real idea what they're arguing against. If they had jobs, they wouldn't be risking them in order to protect. They just have nothing better to do with their lives - raise one fist against the government and take benefits with the other.

I live right next to AWE too btw mate. Have you started glowing green yet?

[daveyrach]

Lol not yet mate, my wife's uncle works in there as a Physicist, he's a pretty strange guy.

[Biker Biggles]

The right to protest and the fact that some people have the enthusiasm to do it is what makes for a healthy democracy.I only wish I still had a bit more get up and go in me to do it too.So I say live with it and be grateful you dont live in North Korea or Saudi Arabia or one of dozens of other countries where you end up in prison or worse if you dont toe the party line.

[ClunkintheUK]

Its much like the occupy protests in my mind. Despite talking to some of them on my way home one, I still have no idea what they wanted.

Reminds me of some of the comments about the new Experimental Fusion Reactor being built in France. Some along the lines of "This is nuclear power with all the inherent risks or catastrophic meltdown".

[ClunkintheUK]

Not arguing their right to protest, Just wish they would protest more constructively. Also its a bit rich people from the US protesting against anyone else have nuclear armaments.

[daveyrach]

The right to protest and the fact that some people have the enthusiasm to do it is what makes for a healthy democracy.I only wish I still had a bit more get up and go in me to do it too.So I say live with it and be grateful you dont live in North Korea or Saudi Arabia or one of dozens of other countries where you end up in prison or worse if you dont toe the party line.

We have no choice to live with it, but when 10 of them are arrested a charged with obstructing a public highway as they think its a good idea to handcuff themselves across the main NSL road instead of just the gate I just think why? By all means handcuff yourself across the gate but why obstruct the road and force the police to close it and add 5-10 mins to my journey to work.

[Fallout]

I agree with the right to protest, but I think the type of protester varies. You know, things which concern normal people are attended by normal people. You'll see marches through the streets, families with kids, young and old, dressed in normal clothes. This AWE stuff is pretty much hippy paradise. Your average man on the street doesn't see nukes as an issue. They're a silent deterrent, the research into nuclear power is important, the additional research is important. The vast majority of people don't bat an eyelid. So a bunch of crack pipe hippies will achieve nothing, as not enough people are behind their cause and they don't represent contributors to society, so nobody will listen to their ramblings, nor be impressed by their 'thumb cuffs'.

[daveyrach]

I agree with the right to protest, but I think the type of protester varies. You know, things which concern normal people are attended by normal people. You'll see marches through the streets, families with kids, young and old, dressed in normal clothes. This AWE stuff is pretty much hippy paradise. Your average man on the street doesn't see nukes as an issue. They're a silent deterrent, the research into nuclear power is important, the additional research is important. The vast majority of people don't bat an eyelid. So a bunch of crack pipe hippies will achieve nothing, as not enough people are behind their cause and they don't represent contributors to society, so nobody will listen to their ramblings, nor be impressed by their 'thumb cuffs'.

Agree with this there are maybe 20-30 people all dressed in their tie dyed clothes, people just think they are hippie nut jobs.

What made me laugh on the other side of the complex there was one lonely protestor by the delivery entrance sitting in a camping chair flanked by officers, I think maybe she was at the wrong gate.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-23948478

This bit made me laugh 'Some protesters travelled from Finland, Spain, Scotland, Argentina and Japan to take part' Why bother

[Fallout]

Just another maverick freethinking protester. :)

[Wideboy]

With all the whack job countries in this world that have nuclear weapons it would probably be in our interest to keep them. The idea of mutual annihilation is what has prevent a lot of conflicts and nuclear war itself. Do they honestly believe that if we get rid of them the rest of the world will? Madness!

Go protest in North Korea you jobless hippies.

[Wideboy]

Maybe the Japanese protests should go back to Japan and protest to their government why they aren't getting serious about all the fookyoo power plant business.

[Fallout]

I'm sure they do when they're back home. This protesting is a full time business. There're only so many Hessian sacks you can sew, and wicker baskets you can weave before it's time for another crusade.

[carelesschucca]

Do you guys ALL read the Daily Mail??? :D

[ChrisCurvyS]

I wholeheartedly agree with people's right to protest, but I really don't think that right extends to physically hindering other members of the public who have nothing to do with whatever you're complaining about.

And bikers are one of the worst for doing that with go-slow motorway protests etc - really don't agree with that. Can't you imagine how much we'd complian if a bunch of 'cagers' made you an hour late for work by blocking the M1 over new EU windscreen-wiper regulations?

[Biker Biggles]

Or lorrys doing a fuel price protest?But wait----we kind of agreed with that I remember.
I was recently watching a live animal export protest at Dover and thought how inconvenient it must be for the residents of the houses just outside the docks but again thats the price of democracy IMO.It matters not what the issue is,just that there remains a right to protest.

[Fallout]

Yeah, go-slow protests do my nut in too. I think it's just an excuse for Harley riders to get out and about with an excuse to ride a their usual snail pace. :)

[ChrisCurvyS]

Or lorrys doing a fuel price protest?But wait----we kind of agreed with that I remember.
I was recently watching a live animal export protest at Dover and thought how inconvenient it must be for the residents of the houses just outside the docks but again thats the price of democracy IMO.It matters not what the issue is,just that there remains a right to protest.
I never supported the fuel protests - might have supported the aim but definately not the means.

It's a free country and a democracy so if you've got an issue, you demonstrate peacefully, lobby the govt, start a campaign or lobby group, stand for election or even start your own political party. Physically disrupting other people's free movement is bullying and the lazy way out.

Is it OK when French truckers effectively hold people hostage in their cars for days/weeks on end by blockading ports? And what about when that British trucker tried to get through and they dragged him out of his cab and gave him a beating - was that just them excercising their right to protest?

[Fallout]

I don't think their aim was to disrupt our free movement. I think their aim was to make it impossible for the fuel companies to sell any fuel and therefore lose many millions of pounds. It sucked, but with companies that big, sometimes you get the feel it's the only real way to have any impact. We've been complaining about fuel for years, and the government keeps saying this and that and nothing is ever done, beyond a few pence cut in duty for a few months.

[daveyrach]

Back on topic, it's the same principle with these guys why obstruct a public highway , it's hardly going to make the government sit up and listen because you've blocked a moderately busy country road. Exactly what they hope to achieve baffles me, as someone said earlier Joe Bloggs on the street doesn't see Nuclear Weapons as an issue they are a silent deterrent.

[Fallout]

You know that. I know that. Their crack riddled brains, fed only on beans and educated only with the knowledge of how to make daisy chains, do not.

[Spank86]

It's a free country
That's America, the big one over the pond.


and a democracy so if you've got an issue, you demonstrate peacefully, lobby the govt, start a campaign or lobby group, stand for election or even start your own political party.
none of those work and they all cost a lot of money to be even slightly successful. Our democracy is set up precisely so the common man CAN'T affect it in those ways. Companies can with lobbying because they have the money and move in the right circles but even if you magically had the money you'd struggle because you have nothing else to offer.

Protesting is the only way for the average person to prove that the cause they support actually matters to them. Anyone can write a letter or email about anything but it doesn't prove they care, protesting is a positive action that speaks loudly and clearly that that % of the population and by inference a far greater but more idle one gives a damn and is prepared to act upon it which scare politicians because they think it'll be a vote loser.

None of your suggestions will do that. Not unless you think you can field a candidate in almost every constituency and fun their campaigns.

[Bibio]

shoot them all they are not conformists :rolleyes:

[ClunkintheUK]

Yeah, they have a right to protest. I am certainly not in favor of dong anything to diminish that. However, it is also my right to think that in some cases they are barely functioning trousers fiddlers. Yes protesting is one of the most effective ways for the common man to change something on a large enough scale.

BUT for those protests to be most effective, they have to have clear goals or message. It will be even more effective if they give an alternative to what they don't like and perhaps most importantly, get as many members of the public on board. hence I think stopping a road like that is counter productive and indicative of a few beans short of a salad.

[ChrisCurvyS]

That's America, the big one over the pond.


none of those work and they all cost a lot of money to be even slightly successful. Our democracy is set up precisely so the common man CAN'T affect it in those ways. Companies can with lobbying because they have the money and move in the right circles but even if you magically had the money you'd struggle because you have nothing else to offer.

Protesting is the only way for the average person to prove that the cause they support actually matters to them. Anyone can write a letter or email about anything but it doesn't prove they care, protesting is a positive action that speaks loudly and clearly that that % of the population and by inference a far greater but more idle one gives a damn and is prepared to act upon it which scare politicians because they think it'll be a vote loser.

None of your suggestions will do that. Not unless you think you can field a candidate in almost every constituency and fun their campaigns.
Er, what about my suggestion to protest peacefully?!

And ordinary people campaigning to change things do get results. I've come across quite a few in my line of work. Google 'Cure the NHS Stafford Hospital' - they never obstructed a road, threatened anyone or blew anything up.

[orose]

On the note about the motorway go-slow earlier, that did have a specific aim in mind, and had already followed all of the other steps in the guide to success. The next step after the direct lobbying is the demonstration, to underline the strength of feeling and allow those people who struggle with the written word to engage with the cause.

One thing that does annoy me are the protests which don't go through the stages, as they tend to be unfocused (like this one), and that makes it easier to dismiss them. It also can dilute the power of other demonstrations.

[Spank86]

Er, what about my suggestion to protest peacefully?!


Obstructing a road IS peaceful


And ordinary people campaigning to change things do get results. I've come across quite a few in my line of work. Google 'Cure the NHS Stafford Hospital' - they never obstructed a road, threatened anyone or blew anything up.
Thats more than a little bit different. what they were doing was exposing an organization failing to meet government targets and demanding the government follow it's policy. Changing policy is much harder especially if you're talking about scrapping our nuclear deterrent or reversing decades of fuel duty rises.


One thing that does annoy me are the protests which don't go through the stages, as they tend to be unfocused (like this one), and that makes it easier to dismiss them. It also can dilute the power of other demonstrations.
we've had a nuclear deterrent since the 1950's, surely they must have covered all the stages by now even if only by accident?

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah, they have a right to protest. I am certainly not in favor of dong anything to diminish that. However, it is also my right to think that in some cases they are barely functioning trousers fiddlers.


Observe the EDL/other far right groups/anti-nazi-league/other red idiots.

The yoghurt knitters whinging about the odd bucket of sunshine kicking about probably fall into the latter category. Expect their numbers to drop as they all go back to uni for the freshers week p*ssup this week.

[steady2wheels]

Wow some of you need to stop reading the daily mail so much, let me guess when the weekend comes you all watch football and whinge about job seekers. They are protesting about something extremely important, something hugely more important than a slight inconvenience to your commute. Also just because someone is protesting it doesn't mean they are jobless and hippies

[daveyrach]

Wow some of you need to stop reading the daily mail so much, let me guess when the weekend comes you all watch football and whinge about job seekers. They are protesting about something extremely important, something hugely more important than a slight inconvenience to your commute. Also just because someone is protesting it doesn't mean they are jobless and hippies

Why is it important? No government will ever just say you know what lets get rid of them. They are there as a deterrent and national defence, for that reason I'm all for them weather we ever use them or not.

Sent from my Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk

[Spank86]

Wow some of you need to stop reading the daily mail so much, let me guess when the weekend comes you all watch football and whinge about job seekers.
I just ride my bike and **********.

Sometimes simultaneously.

[The Idle Biker]

The fact that they think its important and are willing to do something about it is reassuring to me. I'm not so worried about their cause, their methods or their contribution to society outside of their protest, but I think they are doing something useful. Exercising their right to protest. A fecking hard fought battle won over the years and one that will be so easily taken away if Joe Public becomes lazy, complacent and subdued. Crickey have you looked at the people in your local high street lately? What a bunch of fat lazy stupid mongs they are!!

I'm undecided about the arguments on the OP but the more protests the healthier IMO.

[Bibio]

protest all you like as it wont make one bit of difference. the government will do what it pleases when it pleases and the public have no say in the matter. if the government had any interest in the public we would be more involved in their decision making.

[tigersaw]

Reminds me of all those irks in Balcombe who sold their gardens for housing paying their mortgages off and the rest of them surfing the housing boom now whinging about the effects on their property values from gas exploration

[Spank86]

protest all you like as it wont make one bit of difference. the government will do what it pleases when it pleases and the public have no say in the matter. if the government had any interest in the public we would be more involved in their decision making.
the whole point of government is to NOT have people involved in decision making. It's supposed to be a check against the tyranny of the majority.

[Amadeus]

Could we not just drop a little bomb on them? Surely that would make other protestors reconsider future "protests"? Could always say it was an accident.
My wife's family all protested at Memwith Hill many years ago. How misplaced is that???

[Amadeus]

Also just because someone is protesting it doesn't mean they are jobless and hippies

Are you the Finish, Spanish, Scottish, Argentinian or Japanese one? :-)