Auto welding masks?

[aesmith]

Hi,

Does anyone use an automatic welding mask, and if so are the cheap ones any good? I don't do much welding, and one of the things I find most difficult is striking the arc in the right place, since I can't see a thing until it lights. In the past I used to leave a torch pointing right at the place, and I could just see that through the mask, but that's not always possible. Any other tips on this aspect appreciated as well - I have enough problems from not getting enough practice, so I could do without finding I've run a nice bead but in the wrong place.

Tony S

[Phil 1]

Yeah I use an auto mask. Wasn't a cheap one, but the cheap ones still have to do the same job and meet the same standards, they're not going to take any risks when there's eyes involved.

Suspect it's more a matter of practice, I can still use a hand held mask and strike up in the exact place I need to, but the auto ones are invaluable when you need to hold something in place to get a tack on. One hand on the stick, one on the material to be welded which means no free hands for the hand held mask lol.

It's all eye/hand coordination and you need to have a lot of constant practice to get good at it, if you're only doing it occasionally then you won't ever really get the hang of it.

[hardhat_harry]

Its all to do with the speed of the reaction in the lense from light to dark. My mate has a £20 but prefers my £60 due to the reaction speed being alot quicker.

Some also had additional features like a grinding setting (mine doesn't but his does).

The other mate who owns the garage has a £300 all singing dancing one with fast reaction and grinder setting.

But I deffo use one of these instead of a manual one as you can be setup and ready to go before you hit the switch to weld.

I assume we are talking MIG Welding

I use an Argon mix it makes life much easier than CO2.

Make sure you thoroughly clean up the edges to be welded and I try to grind the edges to a > shape whereever I can to help the weld flow.

Tack first before welding.

My welder has 6 setting and automatically changes the wire rate between the setting (though you can manually trim the rate) so its always beneficial to make a test weld on the stuff your trying to weld to get your setup right before going for it.

I also weld in a circular motion I was taught thats good practice.

[aesmith]

Cheers. I get the point about practice of course. I did quite a lot a while ago, with a borrowed stick welder and reached a reasonable proficiency. For one reason or another I bought MIG for myself, and it's just so happened that I haven't had much need for the last few years, hence being out of practice. Sods law the job that's just come up is really fiddly, repairing a bracket on the deck of our mower so it's thin metal, lots of corrosion and an awkward shape.

[Specialone]

I've always used a manual mask and personally I think you should learn with one as it gets your sparking up technique better amongst other things.

That said I bought a cheapy auto mask for £35 and used it recently and it worked better than expected tbh.

[NTECUK]

It's worth checking you can get replacement lenses. As a slightly more expensive one can work out cheaper in long term.

[aesmith]

Thanks for the comments. For all you who use a conventional mask, I assume you do put the mask in position before striking the arc? Personally I never seem to have a spare hand to hold a mask while actually welding, so I use a mask on a headband that I drop down or lift out of the way. It's a pain because it keeps dropping down on it's own accord while I'm setting up.

[NTECUK]

I only use a mig . arc wellding and striking an arc is allot harder than resting a torch and pulling a trigger :)

[yorkie_chris]

I use an Argon mix it makes life much easier than CO2.

Can be a bit cold.

[hardhat_harry]

Nah, the weld flows alot easier and alot more controllable.

Its only used as a shield against the Oxygen, its just alot more effective than CO2 alone.

BTW Argon mix not pure Argon (i.e.TIG)

[yorkie_chris]

Ahh different story, that would be argon co2 mix! Pure argon is too cold like I say.

[Bibio]

i remember having a go with one years ago and i still done 'the nod'. took me ages to get out the habit of lifting the mask :-)

argosheild universal is way better that CO2.

[timwilky]

Having suffered arc eye a few times as a result of the transition from striking to getting the mask in place when dealing with restricted access and needing to be able to position the rod. (yes excuses). I fail to understand why even the cheap welder suppliers do not provide automatic visors.

OK adds a few quid to the initial layout. But essential in the H&S blame/claim culture.

[Spanner Man]

Good morning all.


I've used an automatic mask for over 20 years. One with variable shade is preferable to a non adjustable one.
They're a lot cheaper now than they used to be. Mine cost around £200 when I bought it all those years ago.

On the subject of welding gasses. I don't know what mixes are available in the disposable bottles, but having a BOC account, I use their Argoshield Universal. This contains 15% Argon, & is more effective on inferior steel, or for when you can't clean it up properly.


Cheers.

[NTECUK]

Machine mart has Argon mix as well as plain CO2

[hardhat_harry]

Dont go to Machine Mart or BOC (if you still have to rent bottles from BOC) for your gas.

There are plenty of independents out there now where you have a one off fee for your bottle and then just pay for refills.

I use Boss Gas which is £40 for the bottle and approx £20 for a refill for a mid sized bottle of Argon mix

[_Stretchie_]

I got my helmet from here:

http://www.weldequip.com/helmets.htm

Mine is the £42 (SifLite Auto Darkening Welding Helmet (http://www.weldequip.com/siflite-helmet.htm))

I don't do a lot of welding, just hobby really.

It's fine with ARC and MIG but I think that I used a different, darker, one when I tried TIG welding at the college when I did my welding course

[aesmith]

Thanks everyone, both for relevant recommendations and for general welding stuff. As you might have guessed I have a low end welder (SIP Migmate 150), so I'm probably limited to disposable bottles or "gas less" flux cored wire.

On the original subject I think I might splash out on that one for £42.

[NTECUK]

you could up grade it
http://www.weldequip.com/argonmix-conversion-kit-se.htm

[aesmith]

I'll bear that in mind thanks. I have (I think) two spare disposable bottles at the moment, but it's nice to know there's an upgrade path available if I start using it more.

[NTECUK]

There is no local supply close to me so for the few times I use it the disposable route is ok.

[hardhat_harry]

Thanks everyone, both for relevant recommendations and for general welding stuff. As you might have guessed I have a low end welder (SIP Migmate 150), so I'm probably limited to disposable bottles or "gas less" flux cored wire.

On the original subject I think I might splash out on that one for £42.

Woa!!!

Dont do Gasless welding its very difficult and only really should be used outdoors in conditions like wind make it impossible to use a gas shield, believe me its crap.

My first welder was a SIP Migmate 130, bought it because it was cheap and read on the internet how to make the Migmate from a fairly crap welder into a good one. The Migmate has a problem with its wire feed system, get rid of the plastic liner and upgrade to the metal liner from a SIP weldmate and rough up the feed wheel, I would also check the tension on the wire and the gun nossle.

I would also upgrade the gas feed system so you can take larger bottles its easy to do, then you will have a decent welder.

I now have a SIP Weldmate 170 which is a great welder, in my group of friends most who weld all prefer to use my MIG than theirs its so nice to use and has a great range of settings, I deffo recommend it if you get offered one.

I also sold the Migmate for twice as much as I bought it for with the mods

Im glad you didnt buy a chinese welder though

[Kenzie]

I have a Clarke 130En Gas/gasless. I bought a gas kit and use this on it:

http://www.boconline.co.uk/en/products-and-supply/industrial-gases/shielding-gases/argoshield/2-litre-argoshield-light-filled-cylinder/2-litre-argoshield-light.html

Not too big, works out cheaper than the little white bottles.

[yorkie_chris]

Fook me don't try the disposabottles they're absolute w*nk and you will run out in the middle of a job. A proper bottle will pay for itself almost immediately. In region of about £110 first time and £50 for a refil... somewhere in that order of magnitude anyway...

[hardhat_harry]

Stated before £60 for first time about £20 a refill for a medium bottle (stands about 3 foot high) that will last for ages that's with boss gas about 6 months ago and still going strong after doing loads of welding

[hardhat_harry]

I also suggest welding up a trolley to put the welder and bottle onto a set of wheels so its nice and easy to move around. Made mine out of a metal trolley that supermarkets use to move trays of bread around

[hardhat_harry]

Quick picture of my welding rig that fits nicely under the bench when not in use

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o318/hardhat_harry/IMAG0777_zps4a663e14.jpg (http://s123.photobucket.com/user/hardhat_harry/media/IMAG0777_zps4a663e14.jpg.html)

[_Stretchie_]

Thanks everyone, both for relevant recommendations and for general welding stuff. As you might have guessed I have a low end welder (SIP Migmate 150), so I'm probably limited to disposable bottles or "gas less" flux cored wire.

On the original subject I think I might splash out on that one for £42.


I bought a regulator for about £40 and then a bottle of co2 from a brewey shop for £15

[Bibio]

one of the nicest light gauge migs i ever used was a Cebora Autostar 180. very very smooth. if you could track one down it's worth getting.

[dirtydog]

I use a gasless mig for welding as 99% of my welding is done outside (like yesterday doing a patch on a car sill in the pouring rain :mad:) and its hard to get a decent weld, I used a mates gas mig before and it's much easier to get a decent weld out of it.

I also use a auto mask, cost me about £50 with a couple of spare lenses for it, adjustable tint, grinding setting, adjustable for the time it takes to go dark etc. all in all a decent mask for the money.

[Specialone]

Question, ive been thinking about buying a cheap ish arc welder for a while, I've done quite a bit of arc in my working life, not done any for about 10 years though so just wanna have one to keep my hand in and for quick tacking jobs etc when I can't be bothered to get the mig out.
So, I've decided I'm gonna get an inverter type so I can tig as well with the additional bits and bobs you need, as tig requires pure argon, I can't afford to have two bottles, one with argon/co2 mix and pure argon, I know pure argon isn't recommended for mig but will it work?

I've never used pure argon on mig so not sure, but if I could just invest in one bottle it would be better for me.

[yorkie_chris]

It works aye but it's just a little bit cold, which doesn't help with the little machines lack of trousers. Other way around... not so good, it doesn't do the tungsten any good.

[Specialone]

It works aye but it's just a little bit cold, which doesn't help with the little machines lack of trousers. Other way around... not so good, it doesn't do the tungsten any good.

So in your opinion Chris, if I just get one bottle, the argon will suffice?

Just found a company on eBay called R tech down in Gloucester, two year warranty and a complete kit, % finance too, saves out laying a wad of cash.

http://bit.ly/18oMCMj
Anyone used their kit?

[yorkie_chris]

check out plasmapart as well, really good support of the imported stuff and know their onions.

Tell you what if you hang fire a day or 2 I'll plumb the little MIG into my 100% argon and see what it's like versus the 75/25.


That TIG set looks alright, but it's all about whether you can get parts for the chinky stuff. You really would want to add a flowmeter in between the reg and the machine, but they're not expensive.

[Specialone]

Cheers Chris, yeah not buying this week I think so I'll wait your trial :)

That machine I linked to is branded the same as the company who sells it, you reckon it's a Chinese machine? They are just rebranding?

It does say on the website, a full collection and delivery warranty for two years so they must have parts for them.

What's the flow meter in line for? Finer control?

[yorkie_chris]

Aye fine control, you don't want to waste gas or bang loads through as sometimes causing turbulence can be as bad.

Also good to get a Y piece and 2 of them for backflushing pipes and stuff if you'll do that sort of thing.

[yorkie_chris]

What I really need* is a plasma cutter. Dunno whether to buy a chinese import one or try make an add on box for my old 150A DC TIG. Hmmm.


*well probably not "really need" but they are really cool!

[hardhat_harry]

Plasma cutters are really really bad for your health something to do with the ozone they produce

[yorkie_chris]

Can't be much worse than doing everything with 1mm slitting discs. Of which about 2/3rds of the discs original mass ends up in your nose.

[Specialone]

Can't be much worse than doing everything with 1mm slitting discs. Of which about 2/3rds of the discs original mass ends up in your nose.

Full face mask? ;)

[Specialone]

Well my tig/stick welder turned up today, only tried it with 2mm rods on arc mode and I'm impressed with it, very easy to spark up, lovely and consistent and low spatter (I appreciate this may not be the welder).

If it tigs as well I'll be a happy bunny.

Question I've got is about gas, don't want disposables but I'm not gonna need a big bottle, I just won't use it enough, so I've been looking at hobby type bottles, no rental just around a £50 returnable deposit.

Anyone used these type of bottles?

http://www.hobbyweld.co.uk/?page=38

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah they're fine

[Specialone]

Yeah they're fine

Ta, nearest supplier is 20 miles of crap traffic away :(

[_Stretchie_]

Question I've got is about gas, don't want disposables but I'm not gonna need a big bottle, I just won't use it enough, so I've been looking at hobby type bottles, no rental just around a £50 returnable deposit.

Anyone used these type of bottles?

http://www.hobbyweld.co.uk/?page=38

I bought a regulator for about £40 and then a bottle of co2 from a brewey shop for £15


:kiss:

[Specialone]

:kiss:

Co2 is no good mate, I need pure argon, also I've migged a lot with co2 pub gas and I find it crap tbh, lot of moisture in it, I prefer argon mix with my mig welder as it gets a better weld IMO.
I picked up my 9l bottle yesterday, adams gas supplier, £112 but £55 refundable deposit on bottle, £45 refill.

Just picked up my materials for my welding bench I'm making this weekend, 40mm box section cut to size, 900x600x2mm plate (also cut to size) cost me £44 Inc vat from my steel rsj supplier.

[Bibio]

you only need pure argon if doing ally or SS and even then argosheild will do just fine. the whole point in the gas it to create a 'pure' environment for the weld.

[Specialone]

you only need pure argon if doing ally or SS and even then argosheild will do just fine. the whole point in the gas it to create a 'pure' environment for the weld.

I am, that's what I've bought the tig welder for, ss and ally, everybody who tigs a lot with these materials uses pure argon, the cost is negligible tbh.

Btw, I do know what the gas does ;)

[Bibio]

good stuff :-)

have fun and you'll be an expert in no time. for the record i can't weld worth a feck.. lol

[Specialone]

good stuff :-)

have fun and you'll be an expert in no time. for the record i can't weld worth a feck.. lol

I highly doubt I'll become an expert, I can mig and stick to a decent standard, but tig I'm expecting to need a ton of practice :)

[yorkie_chris]

you only need pure argon if doing ally or SS and even then argosheild will do just fine. the whole point in the gas it to create a 'pure' environment for the weld.

argon/co2 mix and TIG?

You can do it... ISH! You won't get a good weld, it contaminates the fook out of tungstens... you might sort of get the hang of it but if you want quality* start out right at least. Or you'll just get annoyed.


*(if you don't want quality then just spacker it together with vast gobs of MIG weld!)

[Bluepete]

This just came up...

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-auto-darkening-welding-helmet-prod364879/?utm_campaign=emailclub_13wk43b&utm_content=509354743&utm_medium=email&utm_source=emailvision

Pete ;)

[Specialone]

This just came up...

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-auto-darkening-welding-helmet-prod364879/?utm_campaign=emailclub_13wk43b&utm_content=509354743&utm_medium=email&utm_source=emailvision

Pete ;)

Can get them off amazon for that Pete, I got a fancy flaming skulls one for the same price, ive used it quite a bit lately and it works better than I expected it to.

[hardhat_harry]

That ones no good it hasn't got flames or skulls on

[Specialone]

That ones no good it hasn't got flames or skulls on

Eggsackly :)

[Bluepete]

Pair of tarts!

[Specialone]

Pair of tarts!

Lol, I was always taught if you look good, it makes your welds 35% better.

[hardhat_harry]

FLAMES!!!!!

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o318/hardhat_harry/IMAG0268-2.jpg (http://s123.photobucket.com/user/hardhat_harry/media/IMAG0268-2.jpg.html)

[yorkie_chris]

There are usually enough flames around my welds without any on my mask...