Curvy engine fit Pointy?

[Darkzy43]

How hard is it to put the curvy engine into the pointy frame

The only difference I can really see that will be difficult is the oil cooler.. Not sure how essential it is though?

Need to replace conrod bearings anyway so will be a while. Just intel gathering.

[squirrel_hunter]

There are a number of differences between the Curvy and Pointy engines, though they are essentially the same engine...

The Curvy engine did not have an oiler cooler, the Pointy does. This meant that the exhaust was changed to accommodate between the models. Though I haven't tried it myself in theory the Pointy pipes shouldn't have an issue with the Curvy engine.

Depending on the year of Pointy it may be a twin spark. Post 2007 Pointy engines are twin spark if I remember correctly. All pre 2007 and all Curvy engines were single spark plugs. So using a Curvy engine in a 2012 Pointy will be a problem as the Pointy will be expecting an additional spark plug on each cylinder. Not sure which model you have and if it is a twin spark what changes exactly will be required or if you could just leave the second auxiliary spark plug disconnected or use Curvy coils.

But on the subject of ignition you will need to change the alternator rotor as the ignition pickups are different between the Curvy and the Pointy on the account of the Carb/ Injection induction.

There are actually some other internal differences between the engines though these are not as vital as the above. For example, the gear shift star is different with the Pointy being accepted as the better one owing to the deeper troughs. The cams are also differently timed, though are interchangeable. I think the Pointy puts out a couple of horses more than the Curvy but swapping the cams between the engines even them out. The clutch cover is different between the models, but I know of no performance difference. And finally they are painted differently.

And I just remembered induction. I think you will need to change the induction rubbers as the carb rubbers are different to the throttle body rubbers. Oh and the valve covers on the Pointy have an additional feed from them to do with the PAIR system so they will need to be swapped, but are not vital, something to do with emission control.

[Darkzy43]

Nope not twin spart. k5 bike. but apart from that, sounds like it should be an easy swap! apart from obviously splitting the case and all that..

Wish the journals were fine haha. Picked up engine today and found bit of play, Will plastigauge it and order them.

Cheers for that!

[squirrel_hunter]

Let me just check... You have a K5 but want to put a Curvy engine in it. The Curvy engine you have needs new big end bearings? And out of interest, why do you need to replace the engine in your Pointy?

[Darkzy43]

THIS - http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2310/fhk8.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/fhk8.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

And also was seized and the part of the crankcase the gear selector shaft goes through snapped off... was only noticed when I saw a hole about the size of a ping pong ball in the side of the engine :(

[Darkzy43]

I picked up the engine because there was tapping on rear cylinder... I thought ah sweet camchain tensioner (Engine cost £100 pretty good deal) then I found their was play in the bearing.

[squirrel_hunter]

Well I can see why you might want to replace that engine. How did that happen?

However... It is commonly accepted that if the big end has gone then its new engine time. Suzuki do not sell replacement main bearings. While it is possible to fit new mains if you can source a replacement it is a lot of work and might not work out in the long run. I would not recommend this approach. However if you are able to find an undamaged crank then in theory swapping that with your damaged one in the Curvy cases should be fine.

Just as a bit of additional information about cranks, Curvy and Pointy cranks I understand to be the same. You will just need to match the crank bearings in the cases. But I would advise against K3/4 Pointy cranks, there have been a small number of failures of these cranks that I have seen where the crank snaps at the alternator end.

[Darkzy43]

I found Robinson's foundry sold main bearings in different color codes and that. Or is that me being thick? I searched by part number after looking on alpha sports

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[squirrel_hunter]

That crankshaft bearing is the bearings that support the crank in the cases.

If you have play in the crank, ie you take the heads off and the con rods move to much that is the main or big end bearing; a common issue if the engine has been run excessively low on oil. This bearing is not sold as a replacement part.

So when you say you have found play in the bearing what and how exactly were you testing?

[Darkzy43]

Conrod side side to side and bottom to top. Took barrel off and moved the piston up and down about 2mm watching the conrod move on the crank

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[squirrel_hunter]

That's the main bearing you have the problem with. Bad news.

I should clarify, yes the mains are sold as replacements with different colour codes. But these are not sold as over size bearings which are what would be needed.

This (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=152509) thread might be of use.

[mikerj]

That's the main bearing you have the problem with. Bad news

It's the big end bearing he has a problem with, which is the one in the big end of the conrod. The main bearings are the ones that support the ends of the crankshaft within the crankcases.

Robinsons (http://www.robinsonsfoundry.co.uk/content/pages/shop/parts/Suzuki/SV/SV650/X%20Y%20K1%20K2%201999-2002/sv650xcrankshaft.htm) list the big end bearings (called crank pin bearing in this case) in four tolerance sizes at £15.08, though I don't know if availability is a problem. A much bigger problem will be if the journal on the crankshaft is damaged, and judging from previous threads on here regarding rattling SV's this seems pretty likely.

[squirrel_hunter]

Yes, I appear to have muddled a little terminology up there.

To clarify Main Bearings are readily available and replaceable. Big End or Crank Pin bearings while are supplied in difference tolerances are not supplied in oversize which is what I understand from experience would be required.

If you have play in the big end, I would throw the crank away.

[zadar]

Crank can be fixed by welding and grinding to original size but process weakens crank and is not recommended. Replacing crank or whole motor is easiest and best way.
To use curvy motor you just need rotor/stator and intake boots swapped. You don't need oil cooler.

[Darkzy43]

Crank can be fixed by welding and grinding to original size but process weakens crank and is not recommended. Replacing crank or whole motor is easiest and best way.
To use curvy motor you just need rotor/stator and intake boots swapped. You don't need oil cooler.

so is the stator or rotor that needs changing or both?

also is their a easy way to yank the rotor off, on my Gs it was a bolt that went through the alternator thread and pushed against the lip inside the crankshaft.

But i tried that on the SV and it still won't budge.

[squirrel_hunter]

That bolt is very tight. There is some information on how to and the tool in the following threads:

This one (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=138884) and this one (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=96116).

The last time I removed one I used an impact gun. Made life much simpler. But I have done it with the old spanner and breaker bar. From experience it is easier to remove and replace the alternator with the engine in the frame provided the bike is secured to keep the engine steady.

When it comes to reassembly make sure that the nut is torqued up correctly. Its quite a number from memory as it needs to be. If you don't tighten it up correctly it will make a mess of your engine.

As for the question of parts to replace. I have an idea, but don't know for sure. Someone else will hopefully be able to assist here.

[Darkzy43]

I tried with a nut gun (impact gun) and it didn't budge on either of my two engines. and the pointy engine i used the bar and snapped the high tensile flywheel puller bolt I was using :(

[zadar]

so is the stator or rotor that needs changing or both?
Both. And you want to change gear selector sensor.

[Darkzy43]

Sensor isn't a problem.

Getting my pointy's rotor off is haha.... Will prob just buy another one.

[zadar]

I know, easy to change but you need it.
Hold rotor with open wrench and use long breaker bar on puller. Impact tends to damage threads on rotor when it does not come out easy. Lube threads on puller before using it.

[Darkzy43]

See above, Used a bar, then tried the impact gun and then used a longer bar and snapped my flywheel puller Hight tensile bolt.

[zadar]

Some can be stubborn :)
If you snapped puller it is not tensile enough.

[Darkzy43]

I think it's where the crank overheated from the crash, after I was unconscious and the bike was running without oil filter or oil for 5~ minutes.

Not to worry. As long as the one on the engine i'll be buying soon comes off.

What's the reasoning for needing the new rotor/stator.

[zadar]

Rotor has ignition and fuel pick ups on pointy that are different than curvy. For same reason you need gear sensor.

[Darkzy43]

Ahh fair enough.

[squirrel_hunter]

Both. And you want to change gear selector sensor.

Thanks for the info. Might be handy for the future...

As for the problem of removing the rotor, I have had a problem with this myself. In the end I threw the motor away (the big end had gone on it anyway I just wanted a look at it). I did read something somewhere about heat and pressure and time to remove the rota, will try and dig it out.

[Darkzy43]

Time to get the Oxy-Acetylene tanks out then!

[zadar]

Just be careful with heat if you plan to save rotor. Don't overheat it or magnets can fall out. They are epoxied to rotor and to much heat will melt epoxy.
You can try putting some torque on the puller and tap rotor with hammer, or tap on puller head. It is like impact but is easier on threads.

[Darkzy43]

I was thinking, if the crankshaft is kaput anyway.. can i not drill very carefully into the crankshaft to weaken it and hopefully contract it a bit?

[zadar]

No, don't even try. Try tapping like I mentioned and if still does not pop use some heat but only on very middle of it where it contacts crank.

[Darkzy43]

I've tried all those things believe me, It won't come off. Heat, Impact gun.. Breaker bar, Bigger Breaker Bar, snapped a bolt in their. The whole time with heat. Even tried using heat on ourside and freezer spray on the internal hollow for the crankshaft.

Next ones going to be ratchet strapping it to the floor and putting a really good bolt in their with a welded eyelet onto it and using the engine crane to lever it off.

[squirrel_hunter]

That wasn't the level of heat I was thinking of...

Found what I was looking for and heat wasn't in there. Sorry about that. However have a read of this (http://www.factorypro.com/Install_pages/Install,RTR,Suz,SV650,DL,TL,ignition_advance.htm), near the end covers dealing with the troublesome rotor.

I only found this after I threw that problem motor away and not had a problem removing one since so not tried anything written there. But if I did have the issue again I would take the approach listed there to try.

[yorkie_chris]

Pour a bit of diesel in the end, do the puller up to "F-T" and walk away for a week.

Your engine crane will be folded in half before you get anywhere near the force exerted by an m20 fine bolt done up fookin tight... do the sums.