View Full Version : Would you buy a Cat D writeoff?
ClunkintheUK
30-09-13, 10:11 AM
Looking to get a Triumph Tiger for 2 up general purpose and some touring. I have seen this one nearby (Easy Tiger (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2011-TRIUMPH-TIGER-800-BLACK-REDUCED-TO-SELL/221285529285?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D17235%26meid%3D1649788423989665398%26pid%3D 100005%26prg%3D8045%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D2612 93084482%26)) and looks like it could be a very good deal, but it is Cat D. So my question is would you go for a Cat D, or steer clear at all costs? I do have the money to not go Cat D.
If the bike is straight, been repaired to a high standard and has been well looked after in general I don't think the bike itself would put me off.
What may influence my decision is the possibility it may be more difficult to sell on in the future?
chris c
30-09-13, 10:38 AM
I would not bother me at all, but would need to be a good price
ClunkintheUK
30-09-13, 10:40 AM
Its about 1000 cheaper then the next cheapest I have found. Does not have much in the way of the extras I am after, but total cost of them is not that high.
Sid Squid
30-09-13, 01:55 PM
Yes. Like with any other purchase examine carefully.
ClunkintheUK
30-09-13, 01:58 PM
Are there any specific bits I should look out for. I am not that fussed about the cosmetic damage, few scratches and the like.
Red Herring
30-09-13, 02:04 PM
How often do people buy bikes without ever knowing that once upon a time they were an insurance job. Bikes get written off so easily these days due to what is nothing more than cosmetic damage or bolt on repairs and it's simply because of the cost of original parts. My SV was a write off when I bought it, yet I rode it home! Unless you're buying something nearly new and spending silly money on it do people even bother getting background checks done? I know I don't.
My old curvy was a cat C as the footpeg had snapped hardly even any cosmetic damage! Ride fine for 2 yrs and got nearly full market value at time of sale too!
Sent from my iPhone
Yeah I'd buy one. Just check it over the same as any other bike.
A bit of fairing damage could be enough to write off a bike. OTOH I've had bikes that have obviously been down the road at some point and would have easily been an economic write off, but no insurance claim was made. I've been responsible for a couple of those myself.
With anything a few years old there's a chance it's been dropped at some point. At least with the one with the insurance claim, you know someone took a proper look at it afterwards.
only if i really really had to e.g. i was skint and the only way to be on two wheels.
I work as an insurance claims handler and our write off rules are; if the cost of repairs with factory parts (including labour) is greater then 75% of the trade value, then it's a write off.
atassiedevil
30-09-13, 05:34 PM
Cat D is generally cosmetic damage.
I've even bought cat C vehicles, once they've been repaired correctly.
I wouldn't let it worry you, it's reflected in the price, but you know that already.
Buy it and ride it and enjoy it.
What's the insurance like on it? Would I be right in thinking that some insurers may only insure it TPFT and not fully comp?
madcockney
30-09-13, 06:37 PM
How often do people buy bikes without ever knowing that once upon a time they were an insurance job. Bikes get written off so easily these days due to what is nothing more than cosmetic damage or bolt on repairs and it's simply because of the cost of original parts. My SV was a write off when I bought it, yet I rode it home! Unless you're buying something nearly new and spending silly money on it do people even bother getting background checks done? I know I don't.
How did you get on with getting insurance to ride it home as a write off?
Geordie Mick
30-09-13, 07:59 PM
What's the insurance like on it? Would I be right in thinking that some insurers may only insure it TPFT and not fully comp?
My SK3 (lots of mods) is Cat C and it made approximately £0 difference. The mods added to the premium, but the fact it's a write off made no difference. It's insured fully comp, btw.
MICK..
Red Herring
30-09-13, 08:44 PM
How did you get on with getting insurance to ride it home as a write off?
Rang my insurance company, gave them the registration number, got on bike, rode home. Should I have done something else?
Fallout
30-09-13, 08:58 PM
Personally I wouldn't Clive. I wouldn't know how to check everything is straight, which is really what you're worried about after a crash. If the bike is worth say £5k in good nick and it was written off, then it had at least 3k damage. You have to ask yourself if you can account for that damage. Do a few fairings etc, come to 3k?
The Shed most likely has bent forks or something. Something ain't right from it's crash as it's warping its second pair of discs as we speak. There's nothing I can visually see wrong at a quick glance. From that I've learnt to check for crash damage and if I see evidence do not buy unless it has been professionally repaired with warranty. Even then I'd probably walk away, but I was risking less than 2k. You're risking 4k.
Just not worth it imo just to get a bit of a 'bargain'.
Sid Squid
30-09-13, 10:44 PM
That doesn't make sense - if it's good it's good and if it ain't it ain't.
Whether it's recorded as previously damaged or not, its present condition is everything, whether it's for sale for ten grand or ten quid if you can't gauge the condition and thus its suitability to buy or not yourself, get someone who can to view it with/for you. This is the very same whatever bike you're considering, short of a brand new one of course.
Simply being priced higher is no guarantee whatsoever as to it's being a better buy.
Vehicles are not sentient, they cannot hide their faults. You can be either ignorant of them, blind to them, or simply ignore them, but they will not be hidden. When buying any second hand vehicle never ever ever buy the first one you see, you must ride/drive at least three, and once you have you'll know a duffer as it will stand out.
Guess what? It's exactly the same whether someone wrote its number on a list somewhere or not.
Nobbylad
01-10-13, 07:57 AM
Cat D - beyond economical repair.
My SV was registered Cat D after 8 months due to damaged:-
Fairings - top cowl and lowers
R&G bungs
Levers
Pegs
Indicators (front and rear LHS)
Exhaust
LHS mirror
Not a huge amount of damage, however to buy brand spanking new, then add labour costs for a well known insurance company and it was borderline write off. The very kind man at the insurance co (who used to be a member on here) advised to push for the write off so I could buy back and fix up myself.
Can't agree with Sid enough on this one. Bikes are bikes, simple as. If you know what you're doing/looking for, a Cat D can be in far better condition than one that's not registered.
Fallout
01-10-13, 09:11 AM
That doesn't make sense - if it's good it's good and if it ain't it ain't.
Yeah but you have to admit there is a higher chance of a crashed bike (with record of it being crashed) of having damage that is hard to see than one that doesn't claim to have been crashed. I doubt Clive is going to find someone who'll be expert enough to come along and tell him if anything is bent. Most likely he'll just go along himself and check it out and look for things he does know about (normal consumables and signs of damage).
For most people without expert knowledge who don't have an expert to hand they can bring with them, there is always a risk when buying a bike that it might not be in the condition they think it's in. It makes sense in that situation to reduce that risk by passing up ones that are claiming to have been crashed.
It's all right for you, Mr Billy Bike Brains McFixer Expertus Maximus. :D
Red Herring
01-10-13, 10:25 AM
I'd rather buy a CAT C or D that is declared as such and hasn't been "fixed", than just a bike with an unknown history, especially if it has aftermarket parts on it. Bent forks and trashed bodywork etc is easy to spot and assess, but if someone has replaced the forks and replaced the panels how do you know if the impact was bad enough to have twisted the frame, especially if they don't even tell you about it. Plenty of people on here have fixed up their bike without involving an insurance company.
do people even bother getting background checks done? I know I don't.
I'd rather buy a CAT C or D that is declared as such and hasn't been "fixed", than just a bike with an unknown history
But you don't do checks so surely you don't know the history of any of your bikes, declared or otherwise?
Sid Squid
01-10-13, 12:19 PM
Yeah but you have to admit there is a higher chance of a crashed bike (with record of it being crashed) of having damage that is hard to see than one that doesn't claim to have been crashed. I doubt Clive is going to find someone who'll be expert enough to come along and tell him if anything is bent. Most likely he'll just go along himself and check it out and look for things he does know about (normal consumables and signs of damage).
I think you wrote a very clever bit in that paragraph that encompasses the whole deal:
one that doesn't claim to have been crashed.
There's no shortage of bikes that are TPFT, they get crashed and repaired and no one records that anywhere, the machine in question at least has a heads-up before you even set out.
Add to this that Clive undoubtedly knows someone that could view a machine if he wished to buy it.
And stop intimating that I know what I'm talking about - I ain't ever had a clue and I'm not about to start now!
Red Herring
01-10-13, 01:09 PM
But you don't do checks so surely you don't know the history of any of your bikes, declared or otherwise?
Four out of the last five bikes I've bought have come from people I know one way or the other, so I have a rough idea of how long they have had the bike and what they have done with it (or to it). I guess that's one of the advantages of belonging to several bike clubs and organizations.
The SV was the one I bought from a salvage dealer, it was a CAT D and only had 4k on it, one owner from new.
I'd go for it; my old 2.8i Capri was written off after someone rear-ended me into a brand new Mondeo. The damage meant that I needed to replace both bumpers, the front grille and both off-side headlamps but with a £500 bill for parts and labour (inc straightening out the bumper brackets that I couldn't do myself) the insurance wrote it off even though I considered it fairly easily fixed once the brackets were straightned and £500 was about a third of the cost of the vehicle's worth.
a_monkey_hint
01-10-13, 01:26 PM
My mate crashed and rebuilt his cbr (without going through insurance). Its running better now than it did before he crashed.
Granted he reduced everything to the frame and went over with a fine tooth comb.
ClunkintheUK
01-10-13, 01:29 PM
Yeah, Fallout articulated my concerns very well. I am reasonably mechanically minded, but I have only been riding bike for a bit over a year. Even taking it for a test ride, I have only ever ridden a YBR, an XJ6 and my SV. The first two being the bike school's. My SV was a bit of a punt, but I was happy with that given the amount I spent, and it had so few warrented miles. In buying vehicles I have walked away form one where I have seen evidence of a crash, as I cannot tell if it has been repaired correctly or not.
Also this is a more expensive bike that's pretty new without fairings or other obvious non-structural but expensive bits.
ClunkintheUK
01-10-13, 01:31 PM
Just thinking is it likely to be able to see the insurance assessment?
Geordie Mick
01-10-13, 01:43 PM
probably - I got a copy for the Cat C SV I bought. The owner may have a copy of he's bought it back (as in my case). Or contact the insurer that wrote it off (if they can tell you who that was).
All good questions to ask that will add to your knowledge about its history and how genuine the seller is (or isn't).
I've had loads of bikes and the worst of them was a low mileage, "never been dropped or crashed or used on a track" example that was NOT a write-off and looked/sounded/felt otherwise fine (lesson learned!). Inspect it. If you can tell it's largely OK, or have someone who can tell you that, in comparison to others of its ilk, and can accept whatever damage it has - then I don't personally think it's any more risky than a non-write off.
MICK..
Ninthbike
01-10-13, 08:37 PM
Just to add my ten pennerth. We recently had to refund a customer all of their money when they discovered that the bike we financed was cat C write off. It wasn't recorded when the dealer bought or sold it but showed up almost three years later when he tried to sell it on. It had taken Aviva almost three years to record the claim that was made on the bike when it was only three months old. So even if it comes up clean on a search there are no guarantees! This customer was lucky that he financed it as he had somewhere to go to get his money back.
startrek.steve
02-10-13, 08:34 AM
I rode my Cat D write off 60 miles home with a broken arm five years ago, its still going strong (The bike and the arm!)
yorkie_chris
03-10-13, 08:20 AM
How often do people buy bikes without ever knowing that once upon a time they were an insurance job. Bikes get written off so easily these days due to what is nothing more than cosmetic damage or bolt on repairs and it's simply because of the cost of original parts. My SV was a write off when I bought it, yet I rode it home! Unless you're buying something nearly new and spending silly money on it do people even bother getting background checks done? I know I don't.
I do in case of outstanding finance. Having to strip a bike to the frame can be so time consuming!
Sid Squid
03-10-13, 08:22 AM
I do in case of outstanding finance. Having to strip a bike to the frame can be so time consuming!
:D
ClunkintheUK
03-10-13, 08:37 AM
Ok gonna have a look saturday (hopefully, if the seller can do it in the morning). Apart from the obvious of service history and obvious cracks to the frame etc. that I have done for previous vehicle purchases what should I specifically look for. How would I check things like the forks being bent or the headstock being out of line, I don't believe that they would be from the nature of the write-off, but even with the drop in price its a lot of money so want to do everything I can to make sure its a good 'un.
Sid Squid
03-10-13, 01:02 PM
Does it ride straight, including hands off? Are the front end and handlebars straight? That is to say; when you're riding in a straight line are the 'bars, top yoke etc all pointing exactly straight ahead?
Does it steer both sides with equal weight? Bear in mind the camber of the road can affect this, so pick a suitable spot before making a final judgement.
Sight across the forks perpendicular to the bike - are the chrome sections perfectly aligned?
Lie on the floor in front of the bike, line the wheels up - can you see an equal amount of back tyre either side of the front?
If it doesn't go straight and steer properly, it's bent, (or at least; misaligned). If it does, it isn't.
ClunkintheUK
09-10-13, 04:42 PM
Bike bought and now sitting outside my flat. Thanks for the advice guys.
BigFootIsBlurry
09-10-13, 07:30 PM
Wahey, here's hoping it all works outfor you.
Like the bike?
ClunkintheUK
10-10-13, 07:49 AM
Took it for a short spin last night. Its a lot more bike then the SV. It was just up into town, so all very slow and sedate but I can see this will be a mile eater, and still quick enough in the twisties with two of us.
The controls are much lighter and more sensitive, which is the part I found hardest to adjust to. The gearing is a lot longer to, I can happily bimble around town and never change out of first. Only does 4k rpm at 30. Mrs Clunk was somewhat surprised by how much more oomph it had.
Fallout
10-10-13, 08:34 AM
Big wide bars dude. Makes it easy peasy. Enjoy!
Took it for a short spin last night. Its a lot more bike then the SV. It was just up into town, so all very slow and sedate but I can see this will be a mile eater, and still quick enough in the twisties with two of us.
The controls are much lighter and more sensitive, which is the part I found hardest to adjust to. The gearing is a lot longer to, I can happily bimble around town and never change out of first. Only does 4k rpm at 30. Mrs Clunk was somewhat surprised by how much more oomph it had.
Indeed - Mrs Clunk was
to avoid falling off the back! :riding:
Incidentally - what is the point of grab rails? They seem to do chuff-all to help in my experience, just lull into a false sense of security (which is quickly doused by a smart take-off at the lights)
Clunk:
Sounds like a lovely bike!
Y-Bird:
When I'm on the back of a bike I tend to have one hand back on a grab rail one forward just in front of the rider. If they take off very suddenly you can hold on to them, if they brake very hard you can brace on the tank. This depends on the rider but was adopted after one of my mates took to doing stoppies and power wheelies on a TL1000S which made holding on a bit of an effort. That said there's a chance Clunk will actually listen to you...
Jambo
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