Pointy complete electrical failure - green connector problem?

[Glandwr]

SV650S, 2005 K5, 10500miles.

Turned the key a couple of weeks ago and nothing - no dash, lights or ignition. Thought: odd! Re-cycled the key and all was fine. Thought: must be the worn key - no problem.

Last Sunday I do a 100 mile run including 2 stops/switch-offs to admire scenery etc., then get home, park on my drive to have a cup of tea and sit down on the bench to stare at it in awe - I cannot tell you how much I’m enjoying this after a 30 year absence from bikes!

"Ooh", I thought"how many miles did I do exactly ?". So I turn the key and, you've guessed it, nothing - totally dead.

I'm still smiling at this point because I've just had such a great ride and it'll be OK in a minute – won’t it?.

I know the battery is a bit tired but it's just had a 2 hour ride and started fine before and during the ride; "can't be that surely". I have a new battery on my bench ready to go in but I thought I'd wait until this one totally expires. Anyway after shaking the bike, poking it and twiddling the key (and spare) to no effect, I gradually stop smiling and take comfort it didn't happen while I was 50 miles away from home.

Monday morning it's still dead (I know - of course it is, but I'm still a big kid despite my age and hope the fairies will fix it in the night) and I have a thoroughly miserable day at the office – as does anyone else sitting near me. Leave work as early as I dare and check the main 30 amp fuse on the starter solenoid (I'm learning slowly thanks to this forum). It looks fine, but I swap it with the spare in case - nothing. Check all the other fuses under the pillion seat, but I know in my heart it's not those.

I check the battery connections and then dust-off my pristine multimeter and remove it from its box (bought from Tandy - that tells you how much I use it) and gingerly connect the probes across the battery terminals: I’m still alive and it says 12.9 volts. I nod confidently (as my wife is looking out of the dining room window with that face she gets when I mention anything to do with motorcycling - she was sooo pleased when I told her I'd bought a bike. Oh, how we laughed that July weekend). I'm not sure what that voltage implies but I resolve to fit the new battery anyway, when I’ve summed up the courage to pour the acid into it.

I've always wanted to use that tank support thingy under the seat so while I’m at it I lift the tank and have a look behind the headstock. A brief search on this forum at lunchtime mentioned a green connector and after removing the top of the airbox, I can see it (I note that my wife misses this breakthrough). I turn the key on and with a wooden stick (I have all the right tools), I poke it and tap the wires I can see emerging from it but nothing happens. Abandoning the stick I try to squeeze my fat fingers down there and push the 'other' bits of the loom I can see out of the way when suddenly I jump out of my skin - that fuel pump's quite loud when your head is inches from it (my wife saw that). She is alive again. Note that it’s a she when she runs and an it when not – petulance eh.

Now, I'm pleased and sad. She runs again but it could cut out again at any time; I imagine being flat out in 5th on a sweeping right-hander with the peg just caressing the tarmac, then I put the Bike magazine down and realize it could happen to me whileI'm wobbling through a roundabout in Cheltenham trying to find my way out. Seriously, how do you read a map on amotorbike - I can only commit so much to memory!

So, I was definitely not touching the green plug when it came back to life so do I have to dismiss this,or does the complete power failure still point to this?

I'm thinking of hour upon hour of labour charge at my dealer while they try to find the fault - aaargh. Momentarily I think this could be an excuse to part-exchange for a new Street Triple then I remember my wife, and that weekend in July, and the thought quickly goes away.

I suppose the green plug has to be checked out anyway but I would not be confident of a good repair if it is shot. Can I access it from underneath by just moving the radiator? Taking the airbox off worries me. Well, it’s the getting it back on again bit actually.

I should add that I paid my local dealer to remove the Alarm and heated grips that were fitted when I bought it. A call to them along the lines of"do you think it might be possible you disturbed something when you took the alarm of?" resulted in a very curt "Oh no, nothing to do with us". Surprise.

I have at least saved £25 on a pick-up to take a dealer. I can’t find any reference to a motorcycle electrician anywhere near Bristol - any recommendations?

Any help will be much appreciated.

This is my first post so apologies in advance for any errors I've made!

[Sid Squid]

It could be that, and as it's a known troublesome spot I'd certainly look there first. Note the connector may look fine externally, it's only once you separate the two parts and have a squint inside that the failure may be clear. Rather than list out the other possible problem areas it's perhaps best if that's checked before looking for suggestions.

Taking the airbox off is no cause for concern, as you could write your post I'm sure you'll be able to. True it is a bit fiddly, and the front airbox to throttle clamp is a bit awkward to get to, (long cross head screwdriver, torch to find screw head), but as long as you are methodical and note what went where, (there aren't many bits), it should be no problem. If necessary I can scribble a how-to.

Battery voltage: 12.9 is loads - was the bike run, or the battery charged immediately prior to checking? If yes, then it will not give a true picture of battery condition, as there will still be a bit of a high from the charging received.
Key: If the key turns the switch is operated, another key - whether less or more worn - won't make anything electrical happen differently. This of course assumes the switch is working properly - but if it isn't it still won't be the key that matters.

[Glandwr]

Many thanks Sid Squid. I will get a long screwdriver and get that airbox off and check the plug. If you find time for a brief how-to all the better.

[yorkie_chris]

Getting that connector out is a right pain in the tits. Quite likely it's that though, or maybe a faulty ignition switch. Have fun :)

[Shawthing]

You're right that the 'Green connector' is frequently the cause of the fault whose symptoms you describe. I believe there have been cases of failure mid ride.
As Sir Sid states, and from my experience, the best way to get to this item is to remove top of airbox and filter, loosen both clamps holding the airbox bottom to the throttle bodies, lift bottom of airbox and push backwards, checking tension on various tubes and connectors attached and temporarily disconnecting if necessary.

You should get a good few inches of extra access to the connector then, which should be enough.

The connector should then slide up off it's mounting plate.

If you have had the bike running, a HOT connector indicates the fault is in the connector as a resistive connection will disipate energy.

Getting the connector apart will either show corroded internal contacts ( and likely melted plastic connector intenals) or allow you to electrically test out the electrical continuity of the ignition switch ( ideally get your hands on a multimeter to test this).

If it is the green connector contacts, you will need to decide how to tackle/rectify the problem. Could be just a contact cleanup and reasemmbly is all that's needed, or fit a bypass wire around the connector, or you may need a replacement sealed connector fitting.
I ended up just cutting out the green connector and soldering and heatshrinking the ignition barrel wires directly to the loom.

Good luck to ya.

[Glandwr]

Thanks Shawthing. That's a great help.
I was also going to ask whether this really can happen mid-ride as that is obviously the big worry. Otherwise I would just clean up the connector, re-fit, install a new battery (which I already bought) and ride on, knowing I can wiggle the wires to get me back home. Else, if I can't find anything I'll have to take it to the dealer ££££$.

Good to know I have pull the connector up. It has a 'catch' to depress before it will separate as well I hear.

Can the headlights be easily disconnected to ease battery drain during testing? The connectors feel like they just pull off.

I'll be asking for more help to test out the electrical continuity of the ignition switch though! Arrrgh.

[Sid Squid]

Mid ride? Possibly, yes. No guarantees as to when it will happen if the connector is damaged.
Strongly suggest you at least make an examination before making use of the bike, it is unlikely that an engine failure will cause you anything other than annoyance - but you never know. If it were mine, and there was an already known possibility of failure, I'd not want to ride it until I at least knew what was wrong and had thus made a judgement accordingly.

If the connector is damaged, cut out the affected wire and use a separate connector to join them outside the original block.

Headlight disconnection: You'll have the seat off to get the tank raised - remove the relevant fuse.

[Glandwr]

Yes, thought so. I'm not riding it.

Fuse! Why didn't I think of that... (don't answer that)

Thanks Sid Squid.

PS I worry about that poor SV alone in the forest.

[Bibio]

been in about a few green connectors and the best way i have found to get at it is to attack from above radiator. there is a small plastic cowl with two plastic push screws above the radiator at the headstock. remove that panel and then you have access to the 3 connectors attached to the bar.

or as others have said go in from the top but i would remove the air box instead of guddling about trying to get at the connector. either way expect lacerated hands.

[Sid Squid]

I worry about that poor SV alone in the forest.
Worry not. It has a CBR regulator and is thus immortal.

[Glandwr]

Thanks Bibio. Have bought a loooong screwdriver for the throttle body clamps and am 'going in' tomorrow - by whichever means!

[Kenzie]

Thanks Bibio. Have bought a loooong screwdriver for the throttle body clamps and am 'going in' tomorrow - by whichever means!

It's not as bad as you think. Had my tank and airbox off while hunting for a fuel leak. Managed it with the onboard tool kit. Need a longer philips if I am to do it again!

[Glandwr]

I really appreciate the votes of confidence Kenzie. Thanks. The loooooooong screwdriver is really cool too!

[Bibio]

top tip. almost all Japanese motorcycle screw heads are philips no2 and occasionally no3 for the bigger ones but i have seldom come across the no3 and when i have it's out with the impact driver. another one of my favourite tricks is to dip the tip of the screwdriver in fine grinding paste to stop the tip slipping and chewing the screw head.

[Glandwr]

Bibio, I must have read your mind; by chance, that is the loooooooooong screwdriver I bought. Thanks for the tips.
PS
See next post, coming shortly for an update...

[Glandwr]

I think I have found the problem thanks to all the brilliant help on this forum.
Having removed the airbox, wiggling (a technical term) the loom(s) above the green plug had no effect. The green plug below looked all fine and dandy. When I eventually freed it from its mounting lug and started trying to prise it apart, the lights suddenly went out - ah ha! 2 hours, 3 coffees, 1 cornetto and all the 3 o' clock kick-offs on the radio, 2 crying children later; I finally did get it apart. Whooo hooo - a big black toasted, burnt, melted and dodgy looking black/red wire quadrant scowling at me. Thanks for all the great advice, so far! Now I need to know what kind of wire I need to solder in and bridge connector. I'm also not sure how to insulate it. I am soooo relieved to have found the problem though, even if I get the connector repaired professionally, I will have saved so much money thanks to the advice I got here.
Soldering, bridging, crimping etc. advice please.

[Bibio]

cut and bridge it (eliminating the burnt out part) with solder/heat shrink joints but remember to leave enough slack so you can take the connector apart again in the future or put a spade/bullet connector in line with the bridge.

[Sid Squid]

Nudge nudge:
If the connector is damaged, cut out the affected wire and use a separate connector to join them outside the original block.

[Glandwr]

I've done it! I've soldered in a new section of wire to bridge the connector. The insulation is home-made but substantial. It's not very pretty. In fact it looks awful but the solder seemd to 'flow' so I'm hopeful I've made a good connection. It works anyway. I used 17amp wire - please tell me this is sufficient... It certainly looks right, and appears to be slightly more substantial than the original.
I've also slightly re-arranged the loom around the airbox snorkel intake - it was seemingly blocking it off. I swear it sounds a little healthier now.
As a point of interest (maybe) regarding the green connector; the bike had heated grips fitted when I bought it. I had them removed along with the alarm immediately for various reasons, but could this have been a contributary factor for the burnt-out connector?

[yorkie_chris]

Nah those connectors are sh*te as standard. Drawing a bit more juice won't help but they are perfectly capable of burning out on completely stock bikes.

[CodeJACK]

I've done it! I've soldered in a new section of wire to bridge the connector. The insulation is home-made but substantial. It's not very pretty. In fact it looks awful but the solder seemd to 'flow' so I'm hopeful I've made a good connection. It works anyway. I used 17amp wire - please tell me this is sufficient... It certainly looks right, and appears to be slightly more substantial than the original.
I've also slightly re-arranged the loom around the airbox snorkel intake - it was seemingly blocking it off. I swear it sounds a little healthier now.
As a point of interest (maybe) regarding the green connector; the bike had heated grips fitted when I bought it. I had them removed along with the alarm immediately for various reasons, but could this have been a contributary factor for the burnt-out connector?


Well done! Its a job worth doing and it happened to my K3 while in motion. Couldnt have happened at a worse moment as it was on a dark winter night and a crappy county road just before heading into a corner. I ignored a few tell tail warning of wiggleing the cable to start the bike and I almost paid for it.

I cut the connecter off totally and soldered all 4 directly. I did purchase another connector with intention of fitting it but never got round to it.

[Glandwr]

Thanks CodeJack. It feels good to have fixed it myself (well so far so good anyway) with the help here. Bibio has put me in the picture regarding the TPS, so that will be my next project...

[sputnik]

Thread hijack! I fear I may need to do the same job as the OP due to intermittent starting problems but am a complete f-wit when it comes to electrics. Can I check the following...

1. Is there a cunning way to remove the air box on a fully faired pointy without removing/dropping the lower fairing?

2. Do I need to put in a new bridging section of wire or is it possible to simply cut out the rogue green connector and rejoin the existing wires?

3. Just for the sake of argument(!), assume I am useless at soldering;). Can the rejoining of the cables be done just by crimping, connecting and heat shrinking for insulation and strength. (Alert, i am now straying into areas outside my comfort zone)

4. Depending on the answer to the above, should I be looking at using bullet connectors
, spade connectors, or something else completely? Other than what they look like, what the hell is the difference anyway??

Cheers chums...

[Bibio]

1. no need to remove fairings if your taking air box out method.

2. yes you need to bridge the offending wire.

3. yes you can use crimp connectors, but not as good as solder.

4. bullet or spade makes no odds as long as they are insulated and well crimped.

since biking season is almost at an end for me how about i come and do it one sunday when its pizzing down (you must have a shed or garage) as i wont be out on the bike.

[sputnik]

1. no need to remove fairings if your taking air box out method.

2. yes you need to bridge the offending wire.

3. yes you can use crimp connectors, but not as good as solder.

4. bullet or spade makes no odds as long as they are insulated and well crimped.

since biking season is almost at an end for me how about i come and do it one sunday when its pizzing down (you must have a shed or garage) as i wont be out on the bike.


Lance, you truly are a splendid fellow. I'll gladly take you up on your offer :-D. For this soldier, the bike season never ends but I don't fancy getting stuck in the middle of god knows where in the cold! I don't actually know if it definitely is the green connector but sounds kinda like it - intermittent non starting etc and a c42 code when the FI comes on. I might try and have another examination to see if I can at least take a look at the connector.

In the meantime, hopefully see you tomorrow on Dean's run - assuming the bike starts! :riding:

[Bibio]

i'm still undecided about 2morra, if i do turn up i'll see you there.

[CodeJACK]

I'm convinced that the C42 error and this green connector are linked back to the same fault elsewhere in the loom.
Since removing my green connector, I now get C42 quite regular if its raining or there has been a bad morning dew.
C42 appears at key turn and all I have to do is turn the bike off and on again and it starts up no bother.

Any thoughts about where else in the loom might be the actual fault?

[yorkie_chris]

fuel pump relay? live not getting to ECU?

[Glandwr]

Sputnik, I was afraid of all the damage I could do but with all the encouragement on here I had a go and the end result is not pretty but it works! Go for it. I soldered a bridging piece of 17 amp wire in across the bad wire and left the other connections alone in the 'green connector'.

[Bibio]

i think C42 can also be side stand/clutch switches. the green connector usually cuts power to the dash when it goes.

[sputnik]

Thread re-hijack and reanimation to give a quick update that may help someone else in future as this topic seems to come up pretty often.

My problem had been an intermittent starting problem for many months - dash and headlights coming on but broken/stuttering fuel priming sound, refusal to start, FI message and a C42 error code. The green connector sounded like a possible candidate...

Bibio helpfully came round, took things apart and eventually reached the green connector which turned out to be green, distinctly connector-ish, and 100% undamaged. :rolleyes:

Clutch, kill switch and side stand sensors were all behaving. Which seemed to leave the ignition switch...

Sensibly ignoring the 'not for electrical connections' warning on the can I blasted a load of brake cleaner into the ignition, followed by some graphite lock lube. Tried the ignition... and the problem was still there. :(

The following morning though it started like a good un and I haven't had a problem since. It's only been a couple of weeks so far but that's better than it has managed for ages and it all looks promising. :D.

I had tried some milder alcohol based cleaner in the ignition before without success so either the power of the brake cleaner or the magic of the lock lube seems to have made the difference.

[Bibio]

nice one. hope it sorts the problem. i personally still think its the wiper contacts in the bottom of the ignition or the barrel not turning the wipers fully. the graphite might have lubed it enough to make a difference. from what i know about brake cleaner it makes some plastics brittle hence the warning.

[sputnik]

nice one. hope it sorts the problem. i personally still think its the wiper contacts in the bottom of the ignition or the barrel not turning the wipers fully. the graphite might have lubed it enough to make a difference. from what i know about brake cleaner it makes some plastics brittle hence the warning.


Wipers? I huvnae even got a windscreen!

Only kidding - yeah, I figure there was probably some crapola either preventing them turning or preventing the proper contact being made. Certainly plenty of black gunk came out the bottom of the ignition. I hummed and hawed about the brake cleaner having done a bit of googling but decided to take my chances and go for the death or glory approach. So far...glory! Lets hope it lasts. Nice smooth ignition now too.

[CodeJACK]

Wipers? I huvnae even got a windscreen!

Only kidding - yeah, I figure there was probably some crapola either preventing them turning or preventing the proper contact being made. Certainly plenty of black gunk came out the bottom of the ignition. I hummed and hawed about the brake cleaner having done a bit of googling but decided to take my chances and go for the death or glory approach. So far...glory! Lets hope it lasts. Nice smooth ignition now too.


What are these magical wipers you speak of and can they be serviced?

My C42 errors are back with a vengance since the weather turned and its not taking 3-4 turns of the key before starting up.

[Bibio]

on the bottom of the ignition barrel there is a set of contacts and a 'wiper' when you turn the ignition it moves the wiper to the correct contacts in the bottom of the barrel. these contacts get worn or the mechanism on the bottom of the barrel gets worn, when this happens the wipers cant engage with the proper contacts to complete the circuit.

it's the same principle as a cam lock exept the metal bar is an electrical contact and it's the metal bar that comes loose or gets worn.