Winter bike- ideal supermoto/enduro bike?

[mills94]

Hi guys,

As title suggests, just after a bit of advice as to what would make an ideal winter bike as i'm looking to take my sv off the road for the winter and leave at my old mans for him to sort the camchain tensioners and service it. I originally didnt want anything bigger than a 400cc, due to cost of insuring it, fuel consumption, accelerated tyre wear etc.

have a limited budget of around £1500, been looking at suzuki dr350's, honda xlr250's and the like. would however like something to keep me entertained with some fun factor not just a boring hack for work. a friend of mine is selling a nice drz400sm but wants over £2k for it and not sure i could stretch to that much to my dismay. also looking at the honda fmx650, but basically what i'm after is for some suggestions as to what I can get for my money that fits the bill....

Any help would be appreciated :)

[squirrel_hunter]

just after a bit of advice as to what would make an ideal winter bike

sv650.

[ssray]

I had an xr250 last year, it was so tall I had to stand on the kerb to kickstart it_25 before it started one morning after a night shift, leccy start is a must, xt225? cheap light, scooter-no not being funny-250-400 scooter bodywork to keep you warm(ish)

[Red Herring]

You could get a good DR350 for that, this for example.....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-SUZUKI-DR350SEW-/151126134671?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item232fd1cf8f

and they take a lot of beating in terms of pound for fun and reliability.

[Owenski]

I've had quite a few drz400's in recent years. You can certainly pick up decent models for £1500! That's wherey money would go based on your criteria but if your insurance can cope with another few cc then in all seriousness if buy another SV.

[stormingjoe]

SV650S, been good as any bike in winter, just need to look after a bit more, also got a Honda VTR finish is much better but too powerful, wheel spins everywhere, with good cleaning and lubbing regime the SV will last, mines done 48,000 miles and 4 years of age still looks good.

[mills94]

cheers for your comments and advice guys, another sv would be fine as I could pick one up fairly cheap, only other thing would be that it would be nice to have a change, a tall bike wouldnt be too much of an issue as i'm 6'2 tall. nice to have some suggestions other than just from my dad.

[Phil 1]

Not really related to your thread topic, but how do you get on with the sv being so tall? I'm 6'2" as well and it gets to my wrists and shoulders after an hour or so of riding.

[chris SVK3]

Get an four stroke enduro bike, at least then you go green laning

[Mikey360]

Dare I say it, but what about a KLR if you're tall?

[fizzwheel]

I'm going to be controversial here, but this :

have a limited budget of around £1500,

Buys alot of 2nd hand car ( if the OP has a car license that is )

Now I know that commuting in the winter is perfectly doable. But IMHO that its hard on your bike and your kit and there's nothing worse than getting soaked on the way to work and then putting on wet motorcycle kit that hasnt dried out to ride home again.

Also some days when its icey, a car will get your places that you bike wont, or even if your bike could, there would be a lot less risk to it if you had 4 wheels.

Again all my opinion, feel free to ignore !

[Owenski]

Gotta agree with fizz. If I had the money in honesty it would go on a car. I've had no choice for a few years now and I'm totally sick of winter riding. Yeah the experiance is invaluable and I start every spring already well practiced but my commute is 14miles and twice a day that gets depressing in the cold and doesnt bare thinking about during the snow/slush and ice.

[mills94]

in reply to your question Phil1, I never have any issues with comfort, did a 620mile day on it 3 weeks ago and with stops every 120 odd miles its comfy, maybe because i have long arms its not all on my wrists so much but i feel comfy on it. I am after a 4 stroke to be honest as dont want the faff with a 2 stroke (even though I would love to try one!) and yes there's a black klr650sm on fleebay at the moment that I'm looking at.

In response to the car question I havent got a license yet although I'm looking to do it asap. even still I'd be exasperated with having no performance and paying through the nose for it. comfort would obviously better but I can make do for now. dont fancy paying 2 grand I'll be honest.

[Mikey360]

and yes there's a black klr650sm on fleebay at the moment that I'm looking at.

Considering they've got such a global following and have been used in all weathers, plus they're dirt cheap and only one cylinder to worry about, if I had a spare grand, I'd get one for the winter!

[mills94]

awesome! cheers for your advice, It has 3 days left but will see how it goes, any other sites you would recommend for trying to find a bike for sale other than eBay, gumtree and preloved? biketrader and pistonheads seem to be expensive bikes!

[Mikey360]

awesome! cheers for your advice, It has 3 days left but will see how it goes, any other sites you would recommend for trying to find a bike for sale other than eBay, gumtree and preloved? biketrader and pistonheads seem to be expensive bikes!

I know its a bugger of a search but try all the KLR forums, there are alot and most of them are for sale in the US. Otherwise try the ADVrider forums (http://advrider.com/forums/) sometimes there are threads with links showing a good bike for sale, or even advice for bikes that are similar to the KLR, such as the honda XL600 or the Suzuki DR600/650. Other than that, fleebay really is your best bet, just check it daily as they always pop up for a good price.

[BBadger]

I've got a dr350 and think its perfect for every scenerio.

Cheap to buy run and upgrade.
If you can find a good drz it might be more suited but all comes down to £££

[mills94]

thanks very much for that, will have a browse on there now, cheers for your help mate.

[mills94]

dr350 was also on my potential list but they all seem to be holding their price well!

[Matt-EUC]

Honda XR600?

[yorkie_chris]

Knobbly bikes seem to hold their value very well, what sort of ride do you do? Are you realistically going to use it in snow and ice?

[Matt-EUC]

Honda FMX 650

[mills94]

Hi guys, xr600 would be nice! have looked at the fmx too but they are around the £2K mark. my riding will be mainly commuting to work on, not a massive distance, and also the odd longer trip to see relatives. past 2 winters have took their toll on both of the bikes I've had, and I dont want to cycle home at 1 in the morning around christmas. reason for wanting an sm/enduro bike is that it will be lighter than the average road bike and less plastic to break/repair if i do drop it in bad weather. regarding ice/snow, only if 100% neccesary, if the roads are ok I may be willing to travel in it with care..

[Whitty]

I'd agree with fizzwheel and owenski. Done last 2 winters on tatty old gpz500. Not this year, sick of being cold/wet. Ultra greasy roads. Putting all the gear on and taking it off again. My journey to work is 20 mins, I can be half way there in warmth by the time you put everything on and take off again. Plus trying to dry it all and clean and treat it all now and again. Plus factor in all the extra time cleaning and lubing the bike. As you say you don't have a car license yet its not an option(I'd just get it done!) Unless you really want an off road bike I'd just get something like a Honda cb500, get crash bars, heated grips, hand guards and good all season tyres. You'll get one well in budget, they are fun to throw about, could even do a trackday. Kickstart is a pain, been there, done that. Ok for leisure, not before work fully kitted up at minus 6.c . knobblies are horrendous on a greasy road. One last thing which seems to contradict a lot of people's view, I found winter riding slowed my racing down as I was always worrying about grip instead of trusting the tyres/track after months of riding in grease!

[Heorot]

I commute daily all the year round on my naked. 12 miles each way. Traffic on my commute rearely exceeds 50 so a bike is the answer for me unless itls ****ing down or icy. If you want more comfort, how about an old Honda Dullville. More protection and panniers to boot.

[mills94]

interesting comments! i understand where your coming from regarding warmth/comfort etc, but considering i usually cycle throughout winter it will be a step up since it will take half the time, some valid comments on the cb500/deaville aswell, i can see the practical side of these two, all rational thoughts aside, i do really want a more off road/supermoto style bike as if i'm gonna be spending a lot of money (too me a lot of money anyway) i'd rather go for something i want rather than a 'practical' bike. anyone got any experience with husaberg bikes? got my eye on an 05 fe with ktm sm wheels on.

[BBadger]

The European enduro bikes are amazing. Top notch engine, suspension, brakes.

But they were built to race......and that comes with. A price of high maintenance which is measured normally in hours not miles.

For road super motos stick with drz, xtx or. KTM lc4 / certain husqvarnas. Most others need the oil changing to often (500 miles or so), but that doesn't put everyone off, see quite a few in London and they do look dammmn good.

[Whitty]

Husabergs are hardcore! Awesome in the right environment but they only hold about a litre of engine oil from what I remember(someone correct me if I'm wrong please) Hence servicing is critical and measured in time rather than miles. They are ballistic but meant for competition. When I was into supermoto (had a rotax factory fitted big bore ccm, most unreliable bike I've ever owned!) there was a place in Lancashire called Dave Clark Racing who were berg specialists, you could try them for advice if they're still about.

[Red Herring]

If you're considering XR600 you're going to be competing with the trail/green lane riding brigade so expect to pay more. If the FMX is to expensive how about considering the Dominator. Same engine as the FMX, just a less sexy frame etc. Should be some XTs around for similar money as well.

[mills94]

thanks very much once again for all of your advice guys, yes i think i may have to dismiss the husaberg as it may be a bit too hardcore for my liking, only reason being service intervals and reliability. may try and stretch to the fmx if poss or just be patient for the right dr/drz.

[rb8989]

Husabergs are hardcore! Awesome in the right environment but they only hold about a litre of engine oil from what I remember(someone correct me if I'm wrong please) Hence servicing is critical and measured in time rather than miles. They are ballistic but meant for competition. When I was into supermoto (had a rotax factory fitted big bore ccm, most unreliable bike I've ever owned!) there was a place in Lancashire called Dave Clark Racing who were berg specialists, you could try them for advice if they're still about.

Had my race tuned 636 for a year now, in fact I now have three, including ccm's own factory race bike from the 2001 season. When I get them I service them properly and all three have been faultless. I use one for work daily as well as enduro.

Just done crankseals, waterpump seals, kickstart spring (twice!) on my mates ktm 300 exc, with 1k on the clock, but i'd still buy a ktm .

OP if you do get an enduro bike, go over the loom and waterproof it (google how) it will save you loads of hassle, especially if you take it through water.

They have no protection in the rain so if not done you'll have a crusty crap loom in no time, something CCM didnt do and the owners didnt bother doing which I think gave them a bad rap for their looms and electrical niggles.

Looked at the crf250ls? Not that fast but claimed >100mpg , cheap even new (£3999) and can do everything.

[mills94]

interesting comments, nice to know they can be used aswell as for more serious use! will definitely be waterproofing the wires/loom on whatever i get, going to try for a drz if my budget can stretch, starting to think that, why not spend a little extra as you only live once! really appreciate your thoughts and comments as its give me something to think about. will keep updating, keep your suggestions coming if you think of anything more. will see what kind of money the crf250l's are going for, like the look of them! hardest part is trying to get the father to agree with me, even though i'm the one paying for it and riding it...

[rb8989]

My mate is going through the same thing as he wants to come greenlaning as well as get to work every day, ill tell you what I told him, pros and cons.


Drz400 - robust, low maintainence, well made - not 'that' fast, a bit heavy compared to others on the dirt

ktm 200/300exc - very fast, light, incredible handling off road - highly strung, kickstart, premix, unreliable everyday as they require a fair bit of tlc.

Dr650s - robust, low maintainence, well made - again not very fast, a fair lump off road, might seem a bit bland compared to other bikes.

XR650 is meant to be better off road but greenlaners love them so you'll probhably be paying over the odds

xt660 - like the DRs reliable but wont be all that on the lanes, personally find them a bit bland but you might like them. heavy.

crm250- fast, good off road, light, reasonable on road - smokey, oil costs, not that great on road compared with the bigger bikes

crf250l- pretty ideal, great mpg, good on and off road - not as light as you might hope and not as grunty as the two stroke or bigger 4s.

CCM 604ds- Easy to get more power, fast, engine is strong, good as a moto and good offroad. good components - wiring can be rubbish if neglected from new, theyre all over 10 years old now which doesent help. Unique way of checking and changing oil, a fair few owners didnt check the sight tube or give it the 2.8l it holds (oil in frame) and blew them up. Love or hate really.

Husky, husaberg ,ktm 4 strokes - fast , light, top of the range handling and power - highly strung, maintenance, expensive.

Just my opinion on some bikes that are out there, I would get the crf250l if I didnt have three ccms, as they seem to do it all.

[mills94]

cheers rb8989, some great info! will make it a bit easier to narrow down my options, definitely dont want to be having to replace pistons/rings mainly 2stroke related things too often! deffo going to get a 4stroke, see how far i can stretch my budget for the right bike

[Whitty]

My ccm must have been a Friday afternoon build! Bought it 6 month old, less than 1000 miles on clock , off road wheels included that had never been used. In one year of ownership had new swingarm bearings and steering head bearings, originals had no grease in! New silencer(carbon can co) as original cracked and fell apart. New rear lamp unit after getting sick of changing rear bulbs from vibration failure after nearly every ride. Rewired as it caught fire using leccy starter(only short bursts, not held on for long) luckily was in my garage so had tackle to get seat off and chop battery cable. Countless switchgear rebuilds due to naff quality and no waterproofing, handy on a 'off road' bike. Tank decals fell off as not fuel resistant. I'm a mechanic of 26 years and was amazed how bad a bike could be. Like previously mentioned, top quality mechanical components I agree, but build quality and electrical parts quality DIRE! Even my wife had had enough of me fixing it every ride and told me to get something more reliable. Hence how I came to be on here, I found somewhere willing to take it as a px against an sv650.
I went to watch supermoto racing at 3 sisters this weekend. Dave Clarke Racing is still in existence but didn't see a single husaberg. Mainly ktms, Honda crf450, Yamaha450 and a few huskys being used these days.

[rb8989]

My ccm must have been a Friday afternoon build! Bought it 6 month old, less than 1000 miles on clock , off road wheels included that had never been used. In one year of ownership had new swingarm bearings and steering head bearings, originals had no grease in! New silencer(carbon can co) as original cracked and fell apart. New rear lamp unit after getting sick of changing rear bulbs from vibration failure after nearly every ride. Rewired as it caught fire using leccy starter(only short bursts, not held on for long) luckily was in my garage so had tackle to get seat off and chop battery cable. Countless switchgear rebuilds due to naff quality and no waterproofing, handy on a 'off road' bike. Tank decals fell off as not fuel resistant. I'm a mechanic of 26 years and was amazed how bad a bike could be. Like previously mentioned, top quality mechanical components I agree, but build quality and electrical parts quality DIRE! Even my wife had had enough of me fixing it every ride and told me to get something more reliable. Hence how I came to be on here, I found somewhere willing to take it as a px against an sv650.
I went to watch supermoto racing at 3 sisters this weekend. Dave Clarke Racing is still in existence but didn't see a single husaberg. Mainly ktms, Honda crf450, Yamaha450 and a few huskys being used these days.

Sounds about right! I think of them as a bit of a 'kit bike', early ones were pretty shockingly assembled as you and a fair few found out, by 01/02 they had got good at putting them together but then rotax stopped supplying engines and they had to start again with the rubbish suzuki, no real power to be had and the gearbox was weak.

That said, if you sort them out they're really good and dirt cheap considering..

I know you shouldnt have to, and to buy a new bike and have to is criminal but when I just make sure theres grease where there should be, bearings are good, do the bushing mod which replaces the bearings in the swingarms with poly top hats (much, much better and the parts cost a tenner) and sort the wiring.

The stock speedos are a waste of time, as is mostly everything electrical so a trailtech vapour does everything you need with decent connectors. The rotax is a great engine though, self generating so you can always kick it, even if you blow the main fuse it will run, very over engineered and still beats a lot of motos today when tuned.

I think the issue was ,ccm were good at making dirt bikes, but really crap at road bikes, no experience,poor electrical hardware choices and most of all paid unskilled people to put them together for the first few years... but strip it back to what it was meant to be and re assemble the big bits and theyre good toys and even good everyday, but I do know what you mean, plenty of early ones were a nightmare out the box.

A marmite bike if I ever saw one.

[Whitty]

You hit the nail on the head there mate! You obviously know your ccm's, mine WAS a year 2000 on an X plate! At the time nobody would buy it cos of the reputation. Now the early ones seem to be getting good money again. Getting back to the original post, I spoke to a couple of lads who were racing at the Nora sport supermoto races@3 sisters last weekend, one husky rider and one Honda crf450 rider who both said if they were buying another 2nd hand they would buy ktm for durability and dealer backup. Brand new they both said latest efi Yamaha or Kawasaki 450's. Bear in mind it would be for racing though. If definitely need an enduro type bike I don't think you'll go far wrong with a Suzuki drz400.

[Specialone]

Drz400s is the way to go IMO, 70-80 mpg, cheap insurance, tons around so parts easy to get hold of, quick, nimble, reliable, easy to fix, etc etc etc etc.

There ain't many bikes that match the above points.

[mills94]

thanks guys, looking like a drz to be honest. will see if i can get one at my budget and see where it goes, got my eye on one on fleabay but doesnt end for 4 days so will see.

[rb8989]

If you get one, I have a full arrow system for a drz in the shed not doing anything..:smt083

[mills94]

will also keep that in mind :)

[mills94]

Just thought i'd let you know whats happening, basically, i've come across a mint cbr600f 98 model, having it on tuesday, and then keep till may until my restriction ends. spend the time to tidy up a little, modify it, i.e get a few tasty bits and then ready for the next euro trip i'm doing with my dad to the alps! and regarding a bike for winter, kinda gone out of the window, really gonna hate cycling to work, but hoping to scrounge a lift or two on the late nighters, and will make it even more special come spring/ 'summer'.

[rb8989]

Cool stuff, the cbrs are good bikes.

[mills94]

just hpi'd it, listed as a cat c 5 months after it was registered, i know it makes no difference really to the cost of insuring it, what would you suggest, chances are i wont be selling the thing anyway as i'm paying a grand for it. would this put anyone of buying it if you were me?

[mills94]

and yes rb8989. good build quality and good engines! fast enough too :)

[rb8989]

Never been bothered by cat D's as long as they're sound when you check them over.

A grand is at the top end of the scale of what id pay for a 98 cat c cbr600f, a friend sold his 2000 f4 for 1100, so these deals do exist.

[mills94]

fair enough! hmm i thought i had a bargain! ah well, its back at my dads now, all paid for, basically the only things that are noticeable are that the top right hand fairing panel, near the headlight, has been replaced with a different colored one, need a clutch lever as this one is bent but useable. bar ends as there is some cheap chinese ones on that look horrid. rear shocks going to be serviced, get an end can, service it, other than that, its rideable, once MOT'd with a new front tyre. I've got 6 months until my restriction ends to get it ready and then a week after my restriction its taking me to the alps :) basically i've ended up dismissing the winter bike option since this came up cheap, and it will be quicker than the sv in full power form.

[mills94]

now sold the cbr and bought a ccm604 SM instead :)

[rb8989]

Sweet, I own three of those for some reason, you'll either love it or hate it. I'm also over at the ccmmad forum so just ask if you want to know anything. I also have one putting nearly double the power out.. Easy and fun to modify.

[Teejayexc]

Sweet, I own three of those for some reason, you'll either love it or hate it. I'm also over at the ccmmad forum so just ask if you want to know anything. I also have one putting nearly double the power out.. Easy and fun to modify.

Can you give us a bit more feedback about your experiences with the CCM's?

[rb8989]

Sure, rotax engine is the one to have. Easy to tune and work on. Once tuned they're fast and handle really well.

Most bikes are getting on a bit now so my advice would be to check all the wiring and stuff, they're very simple wiring wise, but good to check stuff . Self generating so can run without a battery. Unusually the oil is stored in the frame. I there's a sight tube on the frame instead if a dipstick or sight glass. They take mineral oil only. The engine should be stopped with the decomp lever. Parts are still plentiful, they crash well and are really tough.

What else to say.. quirky but fast fun and cheap. They like to be looked after though.

[mills94]

Hi rb8989, thanks for the info, I was hoping to find a forum aimed towards them, will check it out tomorrow for sure, wow, didnt know you could tune them that much! To be honest i cant ride it till may as I cant seem to find a restrictor for it, although its not the end of the world as i have my sv. Not too sure if I will go down the tuning route as I want it to stay reliable, but I can see why you have 3, cant stop grinning when I look at it! :)

[rb8989]

No worries, tuning doesent make them any less reliable, my neigh neighbours had his from new and has done the lot to it to get 60hp, raced it, track days, races, road riding, work. 20k+ on the clock and the bike has never missed a beat, just keep on top of oil changes. post a pic!

[mills94]

Hmmm, sounds impressive! May have to see what I can get out of it then! Its only gonna be for fun anyway so as long as its looked after which it will then should be fine, will get a pic for you on thursday, got the day off so going to spend it cleaning it up! plus when I get home at the moment its always dark and doesnt make for any good pictures! its grey and is a 2000 model too.