Is this not a form of racism?

[454697819]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-24770995

If someone saw someone wearing clothes which symbolised links with atrocities from another nationality, and someone complained, do you think the person wearing the cloths or the person complaining would have been asked to leave the store?

I guess it was distasteful but in this day an age should an SS uniform still carry the same stigma?

thoughts on a friday pm?

[Bibio]

yes it still carries the same stigma. yes it's distasteful, but so was the bloody WWII war.

on a side note, i'm sick and tired of all the glory documentary's, marches, remembrances etc.etc. i realy wish people would put WWII to rest it's over 60 years ago but people are still banging on about it, it wasnt glory it was a damned stupid war that people got killed because some nutter wanted to rule the world, why would you want to remember and glorify such a horrific event is beyond me.

a Hitler post.. lol

[maviczap]

I can think of 6 million reasons why

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

I'm not religious at all, but we shouldn't forget what the SS did, ever.

But I'm agreement with Bib to some degree. It won't be long before we move on to another conflict

[Biker Biggles]

Asda getting ideas above their station.I thought it was only Harrods that has a dress code.;)

[Red Herring]

WW2 was about several things, but principally it was about stopping one individual impose his beliefs on the rest of Europe and to retain the freedom that allows people to belong to a group of their choosing without fear of persecution. It does seem rather ironic that those that stand up and profess to represent that freedom of choice that so many people died to protect are the first to condemn someone who is exercising theirs. If some bloke wants to go around representing a group of people who are generally despised then that's up to him. As long as he doesn't try and do anything that impacts on my quality of life or puts me in fear of that happening then good luck to him.

[Spank86]

WW2 was about several things, but principally it was about stopping one individual impose his beliefs on the rest of Europe and to retain the freedom that allows people to belong to a group of their choosing without fear of persecution.
Championed by such bastions of freedom as the British empire. and the USSR.

WW2 was about us, not wanting to be ruled by them and individual countries wanting to maintain or expand their power on the world stage Britain has only ever intervened in Europe when it looked like one power was getting too much control, we were always more interested in maintaining stable tension than peace.

All else was either an aside, or historical revisionism.





As for the Nazi uniform, the SS weren't a race so it can't be racist, it is however impolite and he was on private property so its not an issue of personal freedom. You can't yell fire in a crowded cinema and you can't walk naked through a primary school... at least not twice.

[TamSV]

I'm not sure where you get the suggestion of racism from. Unless there was an Idi Amin lookalike at the bakery counter and a Papa Doc Duvalier in wines and spirits who remained unmolested I can't see that he's been mistreated due to his race.

I suspect any person in Nazi uniform would have elicited a similar response regardless of the colour of their skin. Asda were well within their rights to put him out of their private property for no other reason than he's a **** who, it seems, wasn't even buying anything.

I guess it was distasteful

But you're not sure? To put it another way, do you think it might have been tasteful? ;)

[Red Herring]

...You can't yell fire in a crowded cinema and you can't walk naked through a primary school... at least not twice.

Shouting fire in a cinema is likely to induce panic which in turn will lead to people getting trampled and injured. Walking naked through a primary school would possibly give the head teacher a heart attack, but more likely cause a certain amount of fear about what your intentions were.

Both are wrong because they are likely to harm another. Dressing like a prat in Asda is purely antisocial, and right at the bottom of that scale as well.

[Spank86]

I suspect any person in Nazi uniform would have elicited a similar response regardless of the colour of their skin. Asda were well within their rights to put him out of their private property for no other reason than he's a **** who, it seems, wasn't even buying anything.

Perhaps the racism is because he wasn't actually in a nazi uniform, it was merely a hindu gentleman in a suit :p:D?

[Spank86]

Shouting fire in a cinema is likely to induce panic which in turn will lead to people getting trampled and injured. Walking naked through a primary school would possibly give the head teacher a heart attack, but more likely cause a certain amount of fear about what your intentions were.

Both are wrong because they are likely to harm another. Dressing like a prat in Asda is purely antisocial, and right at the bottom of that scale as well.

Good point, If however he'd done it in the showers at the local leisure center fear would have been appropriate.


But my main point was that on private land you can make any rule you like as long as it's within the law and shops have the right to refuse service for NO reason if they wish (there are some reasons they cannot refuse service for but they still can for no reason... go figure).

[454697819]

I'm not sure where you get the suggestion of racism from. Unless there was an Idi Amin lookalike at the bakery counter and a Papa Doc Duvalier in wines and spirits who remained unmolested I can't see that he's been mistreated due to his race.

I suspect any person in Nazi uniform would have elicited a similar response regardless of the colour of their skin. Asda were well within their rights to put him out of their private property for no other reason than he's a **** who, it seems, wasn't even buying anything.



But you're not sure? To put it another way, do you think it might have been tasteful? ;)

Valid Point - Yes of course it was distasteful -

The point I was making to a degree was if someone went in dressed as Abu Qatada or Ossama bin Ladin and was confronted to leave do you think the person asking would be seen as racist? or would it kick up more of a stink.

in this day and age why does the SS uniform still mean so much?

[Fallout]

I agree with Spank. It's private property, Asda weren't happy about the image the guy was portraying so they asked him to leave. Perfectly reasonable. He could've been wearing a mankini and the same would've happened no doubt and it wouldn't have been newsworthy. If you wear anything on private properly, or in public for that matter, that could be offensive to a reasonable proportion of people, then I think it's reasonable for the owner or police to ask you to get changed.

We live in a society where we're supposed to be considerate of each other. I think people have a right to wear whatever they want, but if it offends a lot of people and someone asks you to change, even if they're not in a position of power, YOU SHOULD DO SO, otherwise you're a ****. If you're a woman and you go to an Arab country and get your jugs out and are asked to cover up, YOU SHOULD DO SO. It doesn't matter what your values are. You're in a community where it isn't acceptable, so do the right thing and dress appropriately.

Having said that, as for wearing the uniform, assuming he doesn't stand up for Nazism, then it's just a tasteless joke. I personally like tasteless jokes. I wouldn't have taken offence because I choose not to draw a link between a cheap knock up SS uniform worn on Halloween to the atrocities committed by the Nazis. If he was rattling off Nazi rhetoric then I would've taken offence. Obviously some people are offended more easily, especially the OAPs in there who may've had first hand experience of the events of WW2. Fair play to them.

Wear what you like, but if it offends people, do the right thing and put a Mr Blobby Suit on instead. Nobody is offended by Mr Blobby.

[daveyrach]

yes it still carries the same stigma. yes it's distasteful, but so was the bloody WWII war.

on a side note, i'm sick and tired of all the glory documentary's, marches, remembrances etc.etc. i realy wish people would put WWII to rest it's over 60 years ago but people are still banging on about it, it wasnt glory it was a damned stupid war that people got killed because some nutter wanted to rule the world, why would you want to remember and glorify such a horrific event is beyond me.

a Hitler post.. lol

I completely disagree with this, the remembrance parades are to remember our fallen countrymen from ALL conflicts not just WW2. The 2mins silence on 11th Nov actually marks the end of the Frist world war.

I for one attend the remembrance parade every year as I believe these men and women deserve recognition for what is the ultimate sacrifice, weather the war is right or wrong these people put their lives on the line in the name of their country, how many of us here can say we would to if it came to it?

The world cannot be allowed to forget what happened in WW2, you may be fed up of documentaries etc but I for one want my children to know what happened and that we as a nation stood up against that and I am damn well proud of what my grandparents did in WW2.

I say 'L'est we forget'

[Red Herring]

I have no problem with Asda throwing him out, after all it's their shop and they can do what they want. I do have an issue with the customers who complained to the management about it. What gives them the right to do that?

[TamSV]

If you wear anything ... in public .... that could be offensive to a reasonable proportion of people, then I think it's reasonable ... police to ask you to get changed.

Apologies for the outrageous amount of clipping there :) but just to make the point I think that would actually be too far.

There needs to be some genuine fear and alarm before the police should be getting involved in fancy dress based disputes.

Getting lobbed out of Asda was appropriate to the seriousness of the offence IMO.

[Dicky Ticker]

I got lobbed out for wearing a balaclava after removing my helmet and I fail to see the difference between that a certain Oriental dress that is permitted

[Fallout]

I agree the police getting involved is probably going too far, I just wanted to make the point that a lot of people have the "I can do what I want. It's a free country." attitude and completely disregard how other people feel about it. I think we need a national "be considerate" day.

[tonyk]

I have no problem with Asda throwing him out, after all it's their shop and they can do what they want. I do have an issue with the customers who complained to the management about it. What gives them the right to do that?
just saw in the papers
"Speaking to the Cambridge News, Rosina Rusin, whose father was Polish and mother was of Dutch-Jewish descent, said: “I wanted to make sure he was evicted. My grandmother's family were annihilated in the gas chambers and I thought here is this bloke parading about.... One lady was very upset - she was close to crying.”

The 60-year-old added: "I was waiting in a queue when a lady came up and she was really quite distressed about it... People's mouths were falling open."
but your right, what gives them the right to complain?..... a few more years and noone will be around from thoes days left to complain or get upset by it, never know it may well be ok to wear that uniform.

Then it will be whats the point of poppies ? such a long time ago...
IMOHO we should remember.

[maviczap]

The Poppy fund still looks after our injured servicemen, and that goes back to WW1.

You couldn't dispense with the Poppy as a symbol or brand

[Red Herring]

but your right, what gives them the right to complain?..... a few more years and noone will be around from thoes days left to complain or get upset by it, never know it may well be ok to wear that uniform.

Then it will be whats the point of poppies ? such a long time ago...
IMOHO we should remember.

I think you're missing my point by only seeing one side of the argument. I don't doubt that seeing someone dressed like that upset some of the customers, and their grief may well have been legitimate in that they either suffered themselves or lost close family in the hands of the SS, or even just that the sight reminded them of the loss suffered by so many others. If they wanted to tell the individual their view and ask him not to dress like that then there's nothing to stop them doing that, or they could walk the other way and ignore him, but what makes them think they are any more entitled to walk around Asda than he is? What they are in effect doing is saying that their view that he shouldn't dress like that is more worthy than his view that he can, and not only are they thinking that but they are also telling others (Asda) to act on their view.

I personally think the bloke is an inconsiderate idiot and I certainly don't for one moment support any of his views, but I recognize that he is entitled to his view and he is allowed to live his life.

[Biker Biggles]

I think you're missing my point by only seeing one side of the argument. I don't doubt that seeing someone dressed like that upset some of the customers, and their grief may well have been legitimate in that they either suffered themselves or lost close family in the hands of the SS, or even just that the sight reminded them of the loss suffered by so many others. If they wanted to tell the individual their view and ask him not to dress like that then there's nothing to stop them doing that, or they could walk the other way and ignore him, but what makes them think they are any more entitled to walk around Asda than he is? What they are in effect doing is saying that their view that he shouldn't dress like that is more worthy than his view that he can, and not only are they thinking that but they are also telling others (Asda) to act on their view.

I personally think the bloke is an inconsiderate idiot and I certainly don't for one moment support any of his views, but I recognize that he is entitled to his view and he is allowed to live his life.

You'll get drummed off for being a liberal if you are not careful.:smt109
Those sort of views belong to the last century.Now its zero tolerance and "offended of Tonbridge" rules and dont you forget it or your colleages will be dispatched to arrest you forthwith.:plod:;)

[dizzyblonde]

My grandmother is German. She lived in Gerdauen(look it up). She's had Russians firing machine guns from planes at her whilst hiding under a cart in woods. Shes also crossed frozen rivers with said horse and cart hoping the ice wouldn't give way. She fled her home.
She's not overly keen about speaking of the fuerer and his band of evil men. She pays her respects in the country she has called home since it ended. Her husband was English and served his country.

We watched Allo Allo yesterday in fits of giggles. I doubt she would batter an eyelid at meeting a pretend Nazi uniform wearing person.

I don't find it offensive. But then I'm slightly different in view and opinion of certain aspects of warring countries etc. It's certainly not racist

[The Idle Biker]

All this soft stuff, I was so upset blah blah. If you're upset and able to, give the bloke a smack in the face and a jackboot in the ribs. If you're not able to do that, go to the Asda cutlery section get a knife and stab him in the ar$e.

He'll get the message right enough. I don't think you should stop anybody wearing what they choose, but if they wear something offensive they should expect a consequence.

[Red Herring]

You'll get drummed off for being a liberal if you are not careful.:smt109
Those sort of views belong to the last century.Now its zero tolerance and "offended of Tonbridge" rules and dont you forget it or your colleages will be dispatched to arrest you forthwith.:plod:;)

Good point well presented, I promise to be far more radical in future.....:)

[Fallout]

All this soft stuff, I was so upset blah blah. If you're upset and able to, give the bloke a smack in the face and a jackboot in the ribs. If you're not able to do that, go to the Asda cutlery section get a knife and stab him in the ar$e.

He'll get the message right enough. I don't think you should stop anybody wearing what they choose, but if they wear something offensive they should expect a consequence.

Good point. If everyone who was offended had got together and encircled him and given him masses of verbal abuse, he would've fecked off. I say verbal because obviously smacking him in the face would've been caught on CCTV and got them nicked.

I'd like to see the wannabie SS solider who can withstand a barrage of verbal abuse from a horde of angry grannies.

[Jayneflakes]

No one complained when a certain prince wore an SS uniform did they!? ;-)

Actually if some one is silly enough to walk the streets in a Nazi uniform, then good because it does at least show their allegiance to what ever political group happens to be the most Nazi at the moment. Since Tommy left the EDL the already splitting group has suffered with more infighting and some of the more extreme racists have applauded this man.

The big problem with freedom of speech is that it comes with freedom to offend. A while back a Black Metal band called Cradle of Filth got into trouble with the blasphemy laws because they made a T-Shirt that read on the back Jesus is a .... and yes the word was printed in big white letters, but I cannot put it here because so many think that it is highly offensive. Personally I found it really funny and would have had one had they not been withdrawn from sale. The lad wearing the t-shirt was reported to the Police and he was eventually fined under the obscenities law.

If you remove anything that is potentially offensive, then you remove freedom of expression. So although I would not want to wear a uniform associated with the mechanical and brutal murder of over 11 million people, stopping him from wearing it because it is offensive is just heading down the same path as the people he advocates.

One final thought, I have been to the sort of parties where an SS uniform has been worn to great effect, mind you the chap wearing it did have it custom made in rubber and he was having his bottom spanked by a man in a French maids dress, so in a round about kind of way, justice was served! :D

[Matt-EUC]

One final thought, I have been to the sort of parties where an SS uniform has been worn to great effect, mind you the chap wearing it did have it custom made in rubber and he was having his bottom spanked by a man in a French maids dress, so in a round about kind of way, justice was served! :D


What in gods name where you doing in Gav's garage?!

[BanannaMan]

I think you're missing my point by only seeing one side of the argument. I don't doubt that seeing someone dressed like that upset some of the customers, and their grief may well have been legitimate in that they either suffered themselves or lost close family in the hands of the SS, or even just that the sight reminded them of the loss suffered by so many others. If they wanted to tell the individual their view and ask him not to dress like that then there's nothing to stop them doing that, or they could walk the other way and ignore him, but what makes them think they are any more entitled to walk around Asda than he is? What they are in effect doing is saying that their view that he shouldn't dress like that is more worthy than his view that he can, and not only are they thinking that but they are also telling others (Asda) to act on their view.

I personally think the bloke is an inconsiderate idiot and I certainly don't for one moment support any of his views, but I recognize that he is entitled to his view and he is allowed to live his life.





As for the customers,
People complain too much. The political correctness of society today has them thinking they shouldn't see or hear anything that offends them in any manor, be it dress, music, political or religious views, etc.
These are the people that would have us all wearing the same uniform, driving the same car, eating the same food, etc.



As for the **** in the Nazi uniform,
I'm sure being kicked out of ASDA made his day!
That's the kind of response people who would wear an SS uniform out in public are looking for.
Probably out bragging to his mates right now!
These are the people who would wear a bone through their nose just to be different.


The rest of us just look at some fool and ignore him.

[Paul the 6th]

in other news, Andy Coulson and Rebekakakahhh brooks had an affair, it has been revealed, after police found 'love letters' on Brooks' computer....

Must be just awful having their most intimate secrets splashed all over the media.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24762474

[Spank86]

The point I was making to a degree was if someone went in dressed as Abu Qatada or Ossama bin Ladin and was confronted to leave do you think the person asking would be seen as racist? or would it kick up more of a stink.

in this day and age why does the SS uniform still mean so much?
Depends what you mean.

If they really were dressed as Bin laden with a bin laden mask then no it wouldn't, if you mean an arab guy dressed like bin laden might dress with bin laden's beard then... yes because he's probably dressed as himself not as bin laden.

The SS uniform however IS a uniform and is not a dress worn by anyone other than the SS for any other purpose and "wanting to kill jews" last time I checked, wasn't a race.

[Spank86]

I got lobbed out for wearing a balaclava after removing my helmet and I fail to see the difference between that a certain Oriental dress that is permitted
Next time tell them that you're a devout sikh and cannot expose your hair in public.

Or just claim to be a very ugly muslim woman who believes your getup to be well within your religion.

[Matt-EUC]

"wanting to kill jews" last time I checked, wasn't a race.

It was a race, and we won.
In the (cough)hundreds, we deported all the Jews in the country. We loaded them with all their most valuable positions onto ships and set sail. A few hours/days in, the ships anchored near some sand dunes(?) and told the Jews they were allowed off to stretch their legs. The captains weighed anchor and went back to England with all these valuables and left the Jews there to drown.

Before you say hitler was evil for killing Jews, remember that it was our idea first. (The Egyptians don't count)

[Spank86]

We certainly weren't the first, we were but one of many. We did however invent the first concentration camps in the boer war and were the first country to bombard a city (Copenhagen)

Two more reasons why WW2 was not really about the 100% clean and good British empire fighting for the side of light..

[Matt-EUC]

What a lot if people don't remember is, that we only declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland. Not because we felt bad about the Jews.


Neville Chamberlain 1939:
"This morning the British Ambassador in Berlin handed the German Government a
final Note stating that, unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were
prepared at once to withdraw their troops from Poland, a state of war would
exist between us.

I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that
consequently this country is at war with Germany."

[PyroUK]

What a lot if people don't remember is, that we only declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland. Not because we felt bad about the Jews.


Neville Chamberlain 1939:
"This morning the British Ambassador in Berlin handed the German Government a
final Note stating that, unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were
prepared at once to withdraw their troops from Poland, a state of war would
exist between us.

I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that
consequently this country is at war with Germany."

Careful Matt, people may mistake you for a rational, reasoned intellectual.



But in response to the op. I didn't read the whole story because that link wasn't the whole story, the guy apparently said he was handing out business cards or something. Perhaps it was for a reanactment group and the guy dressed as a British soldier was in tesco and the guy dressed as a yank was in sainsburys handing out cards.

Either way it's not really racism just persecution of people not liking the clothes of another individual. Such as when ignorant people look upon Muslim women in a hijab with derision or an Orthodox Jew for wearing the full gear for being so brazen to show their beliefs in public.

The only difference here is that it is more socially acceptable to make it publicly known that you have taken offence to the clothing and act upon that offence to some degree.

All those people who complained may well find the aforementioned things offensive but they won't risk the social impact of showing their disdain in such a public manner. But because it's the SS it's fine.

The amount that people harp on about equality etc is complete and utter BS, at the end of the day we are all in some way bias and dislike someone for something. I am completely different though. I am a firm believer in equality which is why I hate everyone, equally.

So the guy is dressed like a t at, big ****ing deal, get over yourself and get on with your day. He isn't harming you, give him a wide berth.

Life is too short to give a single flying F about meaningless ****e like that. There aren't that many people around anymore that can honestly argue about the wars personal impact on them, those that are fair enough bitch and moan to your hearts content. The rest? Well we are riding on something that ended before our time.

Don't get me wrong, the war was a horrific and terrible tragedy. But it's done. Yes a LOT of people lost their lives. BUT people are STILL losing their lives. All the conflicts of recent years and genocides for faith or whatever may pale in comparison to the number of ww2 but these are the things we should be caring about.

[Matt-EUC]

Hear hear.

[punyXpress]

The poor barsteward was only living out his Max Mosley fetish!