Can we be non-Christian God parents?

[Littlepeahead]

Last night my sister announced that my nephews aged 10 and 4 want to be baptized at the local church and she expects me and Mr LPH to be the God parents (we were very much told rather than asked).

Now this is an honour as we do a lot to help with their upbringing especially as they don't have a dad, but there is a problem. I am an atheist and Mr LPH wasn't christened as a child, so the church won't allow us to be official God parents.

I tried to explain to my sister that as an Atheist I respect my nephews' views and we would be happy to be Guardian parents but it would be hypocritical to stand in church making promises about a whole lot of stuff we really don't believe in.

In response she has thrown a tantrum and my mum has screamed at me about how selfish I am. This has of course really upset my elder nephew as because of the reaction of his mother and grandmother he thinks we don't care about him. The irony of course is that while yelling at me my mum said 'Well me and your sister don't believe in God either so why can't you just lie'!

I called them today to suggest they speak to the vicar about having us as guardian parents where we agree to support the boys throughout their lives -only to be told that she has found other people to do it and we are not invited to the christening at all!

I just wondered if anyone on here has any experience of being a non-Christian God parent? I know there are humanist ceremonies but my older nephew definitely wants this done in Church where he is in the choir.

[600+]

I know that I cannot be a godfather to my christian orthodox friends daughter as I'm Jewish.....I would expect is the same across the various flavours of christianity?

And I think you should say yes even though an Atheist :) It's what you do for the kids and if the parents want to tick a box then play along. Makes family relationships easier....don't know about Mr LPH with not being baptised.

[yorkie_chris]

What a set of pillocks... Life's too short for that sort of carry on.

[Bibio]

call me stupid but if your sister does not believe in god then why is she having her sons christened?

both my sons are not christened or baptised or whatever as i believe that it's their decision late on in life if they want to go down that route. faith should be something that a person should decide upon and not have it forced upon.

[Littlepeahead]

Bibio, Michael is now ten and so it is his decision. I think it is because he likes the activities he does there like choir. To be fair, the vicar is a really good guy, very inclusive of all and I often go to things kike concerts and the carol service. I think he'd be open to finding a compromise.

As he hasn't been Christened Mr LPH definitely cannot be a God parent in the traditional ceremony, and I didn't say no full stop, I just said that I wasn't happy to go along with the following:

Do you reject the devil and all rebellion against God? Parents and godparents: I reject them.
Do you renounce the deceit and corruption of evil? Parents and godparents: I renounce them.
Do you repent of the sins that separate us from God and neighbour? Parents and godparents: I repent of them.
Do you turn to Christ as Saviour? Parents and godparents: I turn to Christ.
Do you submit to Christ as Lord? Parents and godparents: I submit to Christ.
Do you come to Christ, the way, the truth and the life? Parents and godparents: I come to Christ.

I really don't feel comfortable saying all that sort of thing, but I have done everything I can to bring them up well, I am homework helper, chef tutor, supplier of school uniforms and cool t-shirts, bought them gold cards for the Zoo as they love it there, taught the elder one how to do photography, take him to cricket, and I spent Friday at the Science Museum in the kids' zone. Never mind rejecting the bloody devil - that place is hell on earth in the school holidays and I was there for HOURS!

[Ninthbike]

My wife is Jewish which apparently makes my children Jewish too. I resisted massively when she wanted to get the kids blessed (Jewish form of christening/baptism) as I am a born-again heathen but as I've got older I see how much they enjoy being Jewish (but not very - liberal Jews) and I'm much more accepting. If it is important to my wife and not to me then her views take precedence. There will be lots of time later for the kids to accept or reject Judaism as they wish. I am also Godfather by default to my nephew as his chosen one was late for the ceremony. I felt really hypocritical but was their only remaining choice in the circumstances. I have had little to do with my nephew since then as he lives 200 miles away. The reaction from your sister and mum is frankly appalling and gives no consideration to your own values at all.

[TamSV]

I would have just gone along with it TBH. These things are more of a family event than a religious ceremony for many people so a bit of hypocrisy for the sake of family harmony is no big deal. If you go to the carol service you're singing the same things as you'd be asked to say and you don't have a problem with that. You certainly wouldn't be the only hypocrite in the room.

I am an atheist but was godparent to my Catholic friend's son and am not a Catholic (and therefore probably not recognised as such by the church - can't really remember the details). I take my obligations to that child seriously but that doesn't mean I need to worry about the mumbo jumbo that surrounded the ceremony.

My daughters both had godparents when they were baptised in the Church of Scotland - an organisation that doesn't recognise godparents at all.

I also want my children to make up their own minds about religion, which is why we take them to church every week. Although I'm an atheist, I'm not religious about it. :)

Anyway, you should heal this rift before it gets out of control. Just apologise for having principles and move on.

[Skip]

I would have just gone along with it TBH. These things are more of a family event than a religious ceremony for many people so a bit of hypocrisy for the sake of family harmony is no big deal. If you go to the carol service you're singing the same things as you'd be asked to say and you don't have a problem with that. You certainly wouldn't be the only hypocrite in the room.

I am an atheist but was godparent to my Catholic friend's son and am not a Catholic (and therefore probably not recognised as such by the church - can't really remember the details). I take my obligations to that child seriously but that doesn't mean I need to worry about the mumbo jumbo that surrounded the ceremony.

My daughters both had godparents when they were baptised in the Church of Scotland - an organisation that doesn't recognise godparents at all.

I also want my children to make up their own minds about religion, which is why we take them to church every week. Although I'm an atheist, I'm not religious about it. :)

Anyway, you should heal this rift before it gets out of control. Just apologise for having principles and move on.
In total agreement with all the above - family harmony is far more important than a little hypocrisy...

[Littlepeahead]

What is almost laughable about the whole situation is my sister had 2 kids with no father ever on the scene and we are all expected to accept that without question, yet my views on religion aren't respected at all.

And the vicar's first wife ran off with another woman, and now he's actually married to an atheist. Which is why I think he'd find a way around the situation if asked.

And the younger nephew piped up last night 'I don't believe in God. I like being a naughty devil'. I hope he says that on the day!

[embee]

Aaah, don't you just love religion? Never has there been a more intolerant and pig-headed bunch than religious zealots.

I'm pretty much atheist I suppose, though never really given it enough thought to take any sort of stance. I'm a godfather, so probably contravened all sorts of religious rules and regulations at the time. I take the view that if there is a God I'm sure it will respect my efforts to be fully involved in my godson's life (now 20 and a proper person) and do the right thing. If God won't tolerate me I don't see why anyone should think they're worth worshipping.

As for the relatives ..................#-o

[Berlin]

I'm a Non Christian God parent. I didn't go to church. I'm actively against religion. All religion. I was asked by my Friends and said yes. My best mate is the other god parent. ironically, neither my girlfriend, nor his are God parents so it might be interesting if we're expected to actually live up to being such! :-)

And I agree with Chris, Life's way too short for this ****e. They either want you to be God parents or they don't. Maybe remind them about The Christian values they are breaching in getting upset?

C

[Littlepeahead]

Well Mr LPH said he'd have been happy to just go along with it and nod at the appropriate moment - but as he isn't christened he can't be one in the traditional sense. That's C of E rules.

So rather than my sister say to Lee the Vicar 'can we find a way round this without him being Christened?' she's just not going to invite us out of spite, yet my mum says I'm the one being selfish.

My mother also had a go because I realised today that I will be in a wheelchair on the day following more surgery. When I mentioned this and said can she make sure the vicar knows to get the ramp out it was thrown back at me like I had booked the surgery to be deliberately awkward and that's when I was told it wouldn't matter as I wouldn't be there anyway.

[Skip]

Families - don't you just love them...!

Feel for you there LPH - I could go on for hours about my sister and her "decisions" lol

[Bibio]

just for the record. i'm against organised religion but not against faiths. if someone finds comfort in what they believe in a book then fine but please keep it to yourself.

organised religion = a way to make money and control people, nothing more nothing less.

[Spank86]

Last night my sister announced that my nephews aged 10 and 4 want to be baptized at the local church and she expects me and Mr LPH to be the God parents (we were very much told rather than asked).
.
I would have thought that was down to you.

Can you lie to a priest in good conscience?

Or do you believe the lies should only flow the other way?

[MisterTommyH]

Well Mr LPH said he'd have been happy to just go along with it and nod at the appropriate moment - but as he isn't christened he can't be one in the traditional sense. That's C of E rules.



Are you sure about that? I think it kind of depends on the Vicar and how he views the situation (I'm baptised a catholic but have been able to be a god parent at CofE services).

For what it might be worth, I would say that nowadays a god-parent is much more about supporting the moral education of the child rather than actually ensuring they practice a religion. Especially in this case where the older one is ten - I would have thought that the view needed would be that you would help him follow the path he chooses.

While I understand your reluctance to say those words if it's not what you believe, I don't really believe that it would be doing any harm to say them - similarly if I were to go to communion now, some 14 years after I last went into a church it would really just be a piece of wafer rather than what it's supposed to represent.

In any case, having taken the decision I don't believe that there should be any hard-feeling or anonymity.... Surely christianity is all about being tolerant and accepting.... Oh no, that's where the mainstream religions have been going wrong recently (!).

Can I ask if your sister practices or just goes along for the kids? Seems a bit like someone not fully understanding the principles to me.

[Red ones]

Going wrong RECENTLY???
Seems there is one word too many there!


I'd go and I'd be a hypocrite. At least I'd in good company in the church.

[timwilky]

Having been born into a catholic family, I am well used to hypocrites.

Therefore when my best man asked Lynne and I to be god parents, i was surprised to discover that he from a strong catholic background (I knew him when he was an alter boy) was having his daughter christened in the local C of E.

He has the same outlook as me and wanted it done to placate wife and family. Lynne and I despite my attitude to religion do have a strong personal moral code. I.E don't poo on your own doorstep., and don't get caught. So take the view as god parent to be responsible for the childs emotional and social development in the absence of the natural parents.

So that means in our case. Being around for our god daughter. She is 18 now. But still talks to us and asks advice. she might not take it.But she trusts us. So job done.

[DarrenSV650S]

I just wondered if anyone on here has any experience of being a non-Christian God parent?

I don't

[BanannaMan]

Can we be non-Christian God parents?


The answer is both yes and no.

Different denominations of Christianity vary greatly on this.
Here's a look at how churches in the UK define the term/title Godparent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godparent

If it's in the Church of England, it's up to the individual clergy and may vary greatly.
If it's the Catholic or Lutheran Church the answer is NO, you must be a Christian and one of their own denomination, in good standing to be a Godparent.

How do you personally define a Godparent?

Do you feel you need the churches permission to be this?

Do you feel you should be named the title of Godparent reguardless of religion??

Or as an Atheist, is it even a title you'd want / care about?




Personally, I am a Christian and I do very much respect your decision not to say vows that you do not believe in.
I'm sure the vicar of that or any church would agree.
Well done.

However,
Because most churches in the UK do recognise Godparents for many it's a long standing tradition that has gone on for generations and so religion goes out the window and everyone just expects you to play along to keep up the tradition, not so much the religious aspect.

This of course is very wrong but don't be too hard on your family.
Breaking tradition is nearly always met with a knee jerk reaction.



Here in the US (at least where I live) Godparents are not recognised in most churches.
Most Christians here would agree with the Churches in the UK as for definition but the title is rarely used in Protestant Churches in the US.

In fact the term is mostly commonly used here by the lower classes (of drinkers and druggies) and is given to someone (usually a couple) who agrees to raise the child should the parents die. (i.e. be killed)

[Berlin]

In fact the term is mostly commonly used here by the lower classes (of drinkers and druggies) and is given to someone (usually a couple) who agrees to raise the child should the parents die. (i.e. be killed)

That's what we agreed to. As a point of interest, there need not be a church, nor the word "God" involved at all in such an agreement. technically, we're "Substitute" parents. And as far as I'm aware the term was used as a "phrase" as I don't think the couple that asked us are even slightly religious either.

BTW, Bibio, Completely agree with you. Religion is like a penis. Nice to have and good to be proud of, but don't go waving it at children or sticking it down other people's throats.

C

[pookie]

that is a great analogy.. I see plenty of non christian parents heading to the local C of E and catholic schools here ;)

[keith_d]

I'm an atheist godparent, and Jamie's parents are about as religious as I am. So, I think for them it's more of a lifestyle thing than a sudden religious conversion, and a good excuse for a party.

I'm pragmatic enough to go through the motions for my friend's sake. It won't change my view that religion derives from man's early attempts to communicate with the weather.

Keith.

[NTECUK]

Oh dear.
Well best put it behind you and move forward.
You done your best by letting them know you don't meet the rules
(Even if the church don't check ) And Mr LPH said he would go with the flow
There's not much else you can do .
Theres bigger things in life that have a tendency to smack people in the face and bring families together
I always feel uncomfortable in church as my other half is Christian so can sympathies with you.

[jambo]

LPH I have a lot of sympathy with your stance on this, and am sorry that it's lead to all the toys being thrown out of the pram!

When I asked Mrs Jambo to marry me it became quite quickly apparent that as she's Catholic if we didn't do it via that route it wouldn't count in some way due to her expectations & upbringing. This was a bit of an issue for me as I don't share a whole lot of common ground with the Catholic church on some fairly key areas.

The line I came to was thus: I'm happy to have a Catholic wedding provided I don't have to convert to Catholicism, or promise to be Catholic. If either of those things are expected I can't do it. The problem to my mind was really very simple. This was a ceremony where we were making promises we intended to keep forever. I couldn't do that if half the things I said were a lie, it would completely undermine the other things I was saying that were true.

As it turned out the Catholic church were used to people like me and were able to accommodate this as a "mixed faith wedding" as I had been baptised CoE, I think they decided my exact level of participation in that religion was outside their jurisdiction.

I think some people find the fact that an atheist/agnostic won't lie in a church very difficult to wrap their head around. They think the issue is you lying to a priest, who's religion you don't buy into anyway, but that's not it at all. It's that you're lying in the first place, and especially that you're lying about the responsibilities that you've been very specifically asked to undertake.

Jambo

[Amadeus]

Like some others have said (and I've not read all posts), I'd have gone along with it. It comes across as if you're making a point which I'm not sure warranted being made.
If you don't believe, what's the problem in saying it? I'd only worry about it if you thought you'd be damned for all time etc.
I got married in a church/cathedral because I liked the building, not because I believe in some omnipotent being with a big beard.

[Spank86]

Like some others have said (and I've not read all posts), I'd have gone along with it. It comes across as if you're making a point which I'm not sure warranted being made.
If you don't believe, what's the problem in saying it? I'd only worry about it if you thought you'd be damned for all time etc.
I got married in a church/cathedral because I liked the building, not because I believe in some omnipotent being with a big beard.


If the only reason you're honest and nice is because you're scared of future punishment that doesn't say a lot for you really. (not you personally)

At least if an atheist is nice you can be sure they're really nice, and if an atheist tells you the truth its because they have real morality not fear of a celestial stick.

[maviczap]

Families - don't you just love them...!

Feel for you there LPH - I could go on for hours about my sister and her "decisions" lol

Same here

Haven't had contact with my eldest sister since she had a hissy fit about my fathers funeral arrangements over 3 ago.

Its a shame as she hasn't seen her nieces since, so for family unity I'd say go along with the little white lie.

However after my experience, how many hissy fits do you put up with before you say enough is enough, I just stood my ground on this occasion. Which was the first & only time I ever had.

My sister broke off contact with all of us, so its up to her in my view.

Just remember if you keep bowing to her wishes one day it might be one step too far.

[Spank86]

Just remember if you keep bowing to her wishes one day it might be one step too far.
usually somewhere around Poland.

[Sid Squid]

Can we be non-Christian God parents?
Yes, I am - and it isn't possible to be less Christian, or any other religion, than me.

[Dave20046]

What is almost laughable about the whole situation is my sister had 2 kids with no father ever on the scene and we are all expected to accept that without question, yet my views on religion aren't respected at all.

And the vicar's first wife ran off with another woman, and now he's actually married to an atheist. Which is why I think he'd find a way around the situation if asked.

And the younger nephew piped up last night 'I don't believe in God. I like being a naughty devil'. I hope he says that on the day!

What's most laughable for me is you offered to support their kids in the event of the worst, that's a massive thing...and they chose to ask someone else on the basis they were willing to wear a party hat and a cross?

Don't mean to stir, but that sort of crap does annoy me!


You may be my guardian parent LPH...

[Littlepeahead]

Tonight I have spent the evening at the Royal Albert Hall at the school concert night so my nephew had his auntie there as his mum wouldn't go. I even took part in the world record Ocarina ensemble. None of the people who are set to become the God parents seemed to be there and I missed a cocktail party in Saville Row with a load off male models for this tonight.

[dizzyblonde]

My eldest was christened as a baby. He has four god parents. Not one of them is a practicing Christian. The least(or should that be the most anti) religious is actually the most hands on god parent and takes his role very seriously. He has even taken it upon himself to be god parent to the youngest, even though he isn't baptized. He can't be uncle to one and not the other as he puts it.

You can be a non religious god parent. Keep your gob shut and just nod ;)

The youngest as I say is not baptised. It's not as much the done thing as it was 12 years ago for the eldest. There hasn't been so much leaning from my mother either.
Peg, doesn't want it. He says he'd prefer him to make his own choice. Me.....I'd prefer to save his embarrassment now for when he gets to our age and his future Mrs wants a church wedding....better to have a bit of water sprinkled on his head than a full dunking later in life!
Then there's the question if it was to be done now, who with, Christian, catholic, meh.....can't be arsed!

[timwilky]

You have all the concerns about whether to be a god parent or not?

I find it questionable that some churches actually refuse to baptise a baby. Because my daughter refused to tell the local priest who the father was and the nature of their defunct relationship, he refused to baptise my grandson. The next nearest catholic church also refused on the grounds that he wouldn't override the decisions of her parish priest.

Fortunately i knew a catholic priest who said no problem Tim.

The above I found disturbing, surely if baptism is for the child, why is it used to blackmail parents?

[Berlin]

Because the whole reason for the existence of religion is control and moral blackmail. Simples! :-)