Downsize my daily driver?

[kaivalagi]

Hi All,

Just wanted your opinions really, as of today I've decided I think I will chop in my KTM SM-T for a smaller, lighter, cheaper to run and more winter capable bike that can be dropped, can give much better MPG and take on the winter with no effort at all. The SM-T is gonna get me in serious doo doo one of these days and it's costing a fair whack on fuel too (mostly due to right hand)

I have a Rocket III as a second bike so my lust for power, summer rides and touring with the Mrs is covered with that. So I am actually contemplating a small 250 / 400 dual sport to give me enough for the daily commute and potentially some green laning at a a later date.

3 Models are in my sights right now...

1) Suzuki DR-Z 400 S - I would want a 2009 so I have the newest I can have, but they seem hard to find locally...plus the price that is wanted is fairly steep (no more made I guess). Pros for the bike are the motor has some punch for the size and the bike in general is great for maintenance / tuning etc, Cons are the seat height and the MPG for the size of engine.

2) Honda CRF 250 L - New I can get one for less than £4K, ex-demo for the same price I would pay for a 2009 DR-Z I suspect. Got good reviews generally and is a honda. I have a demo ride lined up on Saturday so I can see if I could put up with the limited power, especially on the dually...Pros for the bike are the seat height is lower than most of the equivalent rides, has 6 gears and has great MPG, good green laner, better than a DR-Z, Cons are the thing has ~ 22bhp and a < 8L tank. But I can strap a small can on the back (with a rack) and the range will be better than my rocket...also looked at big bore kits and tuning stuff for it which get it to 30bhp no worries.

3) Honda CRF 250 M - super moto equivalent to the L, shorter travel, smaller wheels. I think the L would be a better option and if I want SM I can get some SM wheels for the L later on I am sure...

So......what do you guys think? Go for the CRF L, do the SM route instead as most of my time is on road, or wait out for a DR-Z?

Any other opinions?

[Dunn-y]

The DRZ's are what I was looking at before I bought my SV. They so have generally very good reviews and seem to be bullet proof. If I was choosing I would go for the DRZ and the 400cc motor will be a little better on dual carriageways etc. But that's just my opinion.

[Jackie_Black]

YOu have an SM-T and a Rocket 3! two bikes i'd love to own, what's the rocket like?

[kaivalagi]

YOu have an SM-T and a Rocket 3! two bikes i'd love to own, what's the rocket like?
The rocket is nuts, the roadster has better peg position than a cruiser but all the charms, thread on my demo rides leading to the purchase here: http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=201864 Cut to the last page if you want to see the "beast"

I got it because I think it's a thing of beauty in the muscle bike arena and the wife will happily go on the back with the sissy bar on, very different to her feelings of going on the SM-T...the Rocket may have masses of torque but because it's a big bike you feel less inclined to use it all the time, it's just not that style of bike....but if you want to overtake or just give it some beans it does it very very well :)

I'll no doubt miss the SM-T, it is a very capable bike but that's part of the reason I want it gone. In the summer it's a great hooning machine, in the poorer weather however I am finding I am pushing to the edge too much and will come a cropper if I am not careful, that v-twin with light flywheel and poor low rev smoothness means it just wants be all or nothing (can be fixed with mods and re-mapping etc). The bikes ability to create a hooliganistic rider with ease has already gotten me in trouble before now...time to take it down a peg I think....plus I want to give the green laning thing a crack at some point and have a bike I can abuse in the winter and not be overly concerned about it...

[Jackie_Black]

With the money form the SM-T get a decent road bike sv 650? and a proper focussed dirt bike with token gesture lights, horn etc. You'll have more fun.

[kaivalagi]

Yeah, I thought about that but 1) I can't fit 3 bikes in the garage, I need just one for the commutes and 2) I don't want a high maintenance dirt bike (hours based service intervals...yuck!)

The trouble is there are no 400CC ish dual sports about any more with good servicing requirements, the bigger (690cc so no hour based service) KTMs of this world are great but way too much, the DR-Zs are either too old with too many miles or not for sale, atleast around my way. Maybe KTM will fit that 390 engine in a SMC at some point....then I'll look at one maybe

Already reading about big bore kits and exhausts / tuning etc on the CRF, could work for the longer term....I need that test ride on Saturday to see just how gutless it is first....I don't have big expectations but I need it to atleast not leave me falling behind in all the traffic I might be in amongst

The CRF is a great dual sporter, just a question of whether the power is enough for the dual carriageway, I think off road I'll be more than happy with one

[Jackie_Black]

Can you not just get a full power DTR125 for the fields and leave it in the garden? they are fun and capable bikes, or at the other end an old big honda XT doesn't need to live in a shed.

[andrewsmith]

If your thinking singles, whats your budget?
Think team orange again

[kaivalagi]

I don't want the hours based servicing...so for a KTM that means hitting the bigger singles i.e. 690cc

I'll get around £6K for the SM-T and I want £2K back...I can get the Honda new for that with some extras such as a rack, better zorst etc

The ktm 690 enduro would be awesome, a good S/H one might be do-able...but it's too bloody tall! They all are really...the SM-T is as tall as Ican possibly go, even the 1190 adv is too big for me...

I know the CRF L or M is only a CRF in name, not the same as ther R or X, and I need to take a look at one and see how it rides don't I....the very high mpg does appeal....

Better to get an off road suspended bike (L model) then SM it or get an SM with restricted suspension (M model) and off road it? I'm thinking the former?

[andrewsmith]

I was going to say Duke 390

[kaivalagi]

Can you not just get a full power DTR125 for the fields and leave it in the garden? they are fun and capable bikes, or at the other end an old big honda XT doesn't need to live in a shed.
I know what you mean, I'll do some sums and look about at the cheaper end of the S/H market...

I was going to say Duke 390
Yeah, that engine is the ticket for the type of bike I want, but the style aint...

I'll try on some more traditional trials bike seat heights in the dealer on Saturday too..just in case I could manage a taller bike some how...



Any reason why you are offering up alternatives to the honda, what is wrong with it? All the reviews seem favourable....just not enough guts? rated at 90mpg though!! This is as much a winter commuter as an off roader for me

[Jackie_Black]

Any reason why you are offering up alternatives to the honda, what is wrong with it? All the reviews seem favourable....just not enough guts?

Just think a tatty field bike will be more fun, you're less precious when you bin it, and you definitely will.

[atassiedevil]

Someone on here was selling a rather awesome DRZ not long ago...Might still be available?

[atassiedevil]

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=204998

[kaivalagi]

Just think a tatty field bike will be more fun, you're less precious when you bin it, and you definitely will.
I am likely to go out in the worst of the winter weather too, that's the plan anyway...so I will likely come off in the snow/ice at some point so that'll get that precious syndrome out of focus pretty quick :)

This bike will get well used and cover a lot of miles...probably around 6K a year and I want some decent MPG.....I am sure Honda quoting 90mpg is just fiction but I bet I can get 70 no worries which would be ace...would be atleast 100 miles on a 7L tank

Someone on here was selling a rather awesome DRZ not long ago...Might still be available?
Thanks, would mean a private sale of the SM-T, plus it's in Aberdeen...I'll think it over though. Might come more into focus after a test ride on Saturday....jusat don't know what to expect with this CRF...

Keep the options coming though!!

[Jackie_Black]

Well i Used to have a DTR 125 it was hilarious, light, 2 stroke and 30hp, it'll green lane and you can happily blow it up and fix it in the same day. its mostly steel so crashing it is easy and you can do average jumps on it. I progressed to a ktm enduro 250 2 stroke after that which was an absolute weapon but i reckon i'd be scared of a full power 2 stroke 250 in the fields now, they are brutal and make road bikes look totally soft. If possible separating commuting and green lane bikes would be for the best!

[kaivalagi]

I think going 2 stroke might come later if I get into the off road side of things, bit of a gamble for now as I am a total noob with that side of things...you may well see me going for a 200 2 stroker in a years time once I have been sucked in to the whole thing :)

[Jackie_Black]

2 strokes are just fantastic and if you didnt need to rely on one every day, definitely worth having in your stable.

[STRAMASHER]

XT660 X

Decent seat. Road bike sized tank. Good torque. Good MPG. Cheap and easy to tune up (zorsts and airbox mods) Proper road tyre sizes. Solid build.

[Dabteacake]

What about the BMW f650 if it's going to be a hack

[kaivalagi]

What about the BMW f650 if it's going to be a hack

Bit big for green laning.

[Dabteacake]

Should read the full posts eh?!

[cb1000rsteve]

Them honda 700 get good review and mega mpg

[kaivalagi]

Well I test rode the CRF250L today and it would be great for urban use and up to about 50mph (and the obvious green laning) but I couldn't get past 75mph on the dually and it's no good what-so-ever for overtakes no matter what rev range I used at any speeds, just no acceleration at all with my far ar$e on it. I know this performance is to be expected but until I rode this size/style of bike I just didn't know how gutless it would actually be. Here's the little thing:

http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy91/kaivalagi/Motorbike/Demo%20Bikes/DSC_0017_zps93322153-1.jpg

Also getting back on the SM-T after has made me think twice too, it is an awesome bike and I am unsure for the sort of money they are offering on part-ex if I should ever get rid of it - they are all offering £5200 for a 2011 because of the £17K miles on it. I think I am better instead to just clock all my serious miles on it all year round and keep the ACF-50 at the ready and ride a little less full on to get the MPG up (as if!)

Anyway I think ideally to replace the SM-T with anything that could suffice for the commute properly AND for green laning I would need a little more torque, either a DR-Z 400 hack or I'll just have to wait until honda bring out a CRF350+ or KTM a 390 enduro with lower seat height than current enduros and miles based servicing not hours....I did briefly contemplate a 690 enduro but I would be spending on top of trade in to have one unless a decent S/H one turns up. As mentioned before, it might make more sense to get a third off roader for green laning that can limp to the byways then be fun once there....something I can just beat up and put third party fire and theft insurance on for next to nothing...

For the "current" 5 mile ride to work I might just get a new mountain bike and hit the snow on that instead lol!

[kaivalagi]

Found a decent entry level mountain bike for £600 that should last:
http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/bikes-and-gear/bikes/mountain/29er/1369388987817-70zy21d91a4r-500-70.jpg

Air adjustable front forks and generally good drive train / components that I wont want to improve on...
http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain-bikes/29er/product/review-voodoo-bizango-13-47282/

Off in Halfrauds before my Southwold trip in the morning to take a closer look at this and the 26" hoodoo then buying one of them online if any good as I'll get £60 off £600 spent ;)

[maviczap]

I gotta Hoodoo Voodoo, its plenty good enough for my off road exploits.

If you're going to use it to commute on, get some slick or city tyres for it. You'll be amazed how much easier it is than knobblies

[kaivalagi]

Are the Voodoo's as good a build quality as I am led to beleive?

You ever ridden a 29er before? I've always had 700c based bikes since I can remember and I would have likely gone for another hybrid if not for these 29" wheeled mountain bikes...better option for an all-round bike than 26" wheels do you think?

[maviczap]

Yes, frame quality is very good. They are one level below the Boardmans at Halfrauds & at a similar level to the Carreras

No, not ridden a 29er before, but from what I read they roll faster over the rough stuff, so maybe a better option as an allrounder.

[maviczap]

Think you can slot 26in wheels in a 29er frame if they have disc brakes

[kaivalagi]

Think you can slot 26in wheels in a 29er frame if they have disc brakes

Yeah, Hubs and discs are the same, would just look a little odd maybe :)

I can see three sets of wheels in the future lol

[maviczap]

I can see three sets of wheels in the future lol

Not nearly enough, its always N = +1:p

[kaivalagi]

Not nearly enough, its always N = +1:p

Been toying with a boardman 650b, but I am liking the idea of being able to use 700c road rims and tyres later on in a 29er so still the above in 1st place right now....shame they sold out of the boardman comp 29er for £585 otherwise it would be that one!

[maviczap]

Yes, loots of nice lightweight 700c wheels out there

[kaivalagi]

Well didn't buy what I thought I would, went to Halfrauds and sized up a few...and in the end common sense prevailed and I decided on a hybrid rather than a 29er, I am mostly commuting and occasionally trail riding and around this way a hybrid will do that just fine, expecially looking at the chunky and very nice frame! I've just ordered a Boardman MX Comp 2014 hybrid:

http://www.thebikelist.co.uk/media/643206/PS_MX_COMP_m-Boardman-2014.jpg

[maviczap]

Nice

Did you see the cross bike in the Boardman range, it was in similar colours to that

[kaivalagi]

To be honest I didn't give any road bikes a single gaze, I had enough to think about factoring in 650c / 29er mountain bikes and 700c hybrids....sounds like I should of though! Too many good options to choose from, just like the motorised variety!

edit: just looked at the cx comp, very nice mix of hybrid and road and light! I am still happy with my straight bars and shocks even through they add some weight....13kg aint shabby though ;)

Are there such things as hydraulic road bike brakes with gear shifters I wonder?

[PyroUK]

Nice, I used to have a board man mountain pro, it was the 1st gen one hard tail. Was super light at about 10k plus the tiny 2.1 tyres meant that for road use it was fine. Put the lockout on the front fork and it was rapid!! I upgrade the drivetrain to full SRAM X0 gear and went tubeless but other than it was standard. Had a full sus GT iDrive too for downhill biking, bit too heavy for commuting to work as I always broke a sweat unlike on the board man

[maviczap]

The CX would have been in amongst the MTB's

Here it is, gorgeous I think

http://washford.scene7.com/is/image/Washford/592511?$PDP_MAIN$

[kaivalagi]

It is very nice but and I know rigid forks are fine even for off road (hence the cyclocross bike) but I liked the idea of a more sloped top tube and some suspension (with lock out), and not having cables for the brakes with hydraulics is a bonus. I can imagine if you're a serious road racer and wanting a decent winter bike to spin on that woul d be almost perfect!

I think the bike I've ordered has only been around for a couple of weeks, according to some posts anyway. It's got the new SRAM VIA 2X10 gearing on it (better ratio'ed for only 2 front rings - no duplication of ratio) and hydraulic Avid DB1 brakes off more off road bikes.....the only little niggle I have is maybe I should have spent another £50 on the 650b comp and got slicks (even more cost again) but I have chosen based on my usage...rather than being able to do anything...I do live in Norfolk where off road adventures are nearly all simple trails with no hill sides with rocks so.....

If I get into it again like I used to be (before uni days) you'll see me getting a proper road bike at some point, and this one just bought will be the winter hack ;) Last decent bike I had (before 2000) was a red and white GT road bike with Ultegra on it that cost me £1400 (I forget the model, one down from the tour-de-france bike anyway), I loved that bike!

[maviczap]

I think the bike I've ordered has only been around for a couple of weeks, according to some posts anyway. It's got the new SRAM VIA 2X10 gearing on it (better ratio'ed for only 2 front rings - no duplication of ratio) and hydraulic Avid DB1 brakes off more off road bikes.....the only little niggle I have is maybe I should have spent another £50 on the 650b comp and got slicks (even more cost again) but I have chosen based on my usage...rather than being able to do anything...I do live in Norfolk where off road adventures are nearly all simple trails with no hill sides with rocks so.....

Yes, yours is in the latest colour scheme. We'll have an EAR rideout round Thetford forest trails

If I get into it again like I used to be (before uni days) you'll see me getting a proper road bike at some point, and this one just bought will be the winter hack ;) Last decent bike I had (before 2000) was a red and white GT road bike with Ultegra on it that cost me £1400 (I forget the model, one down from the tour-de-france bike anyway), I loved that bike!

That'd be good, then we can have an EAR rideout in the Alpes :D

[Teejayexc]

So we've gone from getting a winter hack to a feckin pushbike!!

Bugger that for a game of soldiers.

[kaivalagi]

Don't get too excited! I've got to get into shape for any of that first....a long way to go for me yet lol!

Starting in the new year I'll be cycling everyday which is the first step.....

[kaivalagi]

So we've gone from getting a winter hack to a feckin pushbike!!

Bugger that for a game of soldiers.

It is a winter hack ;)

The SM-T will still come out to play, but not when there is snow or ice...bike only then

[kaivalagi]

Rich, hydraulic disc brakes for cyclocross bikes are coming...... http://www.cxmagazine.com/sram-hydraulic-brakes-sram-red-force-22-2014

[maviczap]

Rich, hydraulic disc brakes for cyclocross bikes are coming...... http://www.cxmagazine.com/sram-hydraulic-brakes-sram-red-force-22-2014

Nope not for cross bikes, as they're going for disc brakes.

This is SRAM's system for road bikes, but the future might also be disc brakes for road bikes too. There's already a few in production