Found the perfect bike except. ..

[Nobbylad]

...the mileage doesn't stack up 100%.

I put a deposit down on a mint condition GSXR750 K5 model from a dealer. Bike advertised as 7,745 miles, full service history and one owner since new.

Went to take a look in person on Monday and although the bike was in great condition for it's age, the bodywork was almost too good. No stone chips on the fairings, front mudguard and the only real 'issues' were some slight blemishes such as some bubbling on the paint on the right hand side of the frame (about 2 inches long, 1 inch high), a small scuff on the right hand indie, as if it's brushed on a wall slightly and some (expected) pitting on the brake calipers and there was some crapola on the rear shock adjustment ring (again expected).

So I'm generally pleased with the cosmetics (newish Bridgestones on it too), but when I start going through the paperwork, there's the following.

Registered new in 2005, first service at 645 miles towards the end of that year. The next stamp in the book is a different garage and just a stamp, no details. Next to that is another stamp (same as the second), however has written 8,000 mile service (can't remember the date). So I'm thinking, no biggy, garage might just have stamped it twice by mistake for some reason. I'm then thinking OK, maybe they've listed it as the 8k service because they've rounded up/current mileage is 7,745 so nearly 8k and maybe that's the service interval for gixxers.

Then I look at the mot history. First mot gives 12,932 miles in 2008 and the next one has been done by the current dealer this month with the mileage at 7,745.

So, being naturally cynical, I'm thinking this doesn't add up and there's obviously a problem. Lad in the dealership is genuinely surprised and does a hpi check there and then in front of me to prove it's never been registered (I know that's all it means). He also confirms they took it as part ex for a brand new blade (they're a Honda dealer).

He checks VOSA and both MOT's are listed with mileage as above. So I'm left wondering whether the first MOT had a typo and the tester maybe added a random digit by accident and the mileage was something like 1,293 instead of 12,932, or whether there's something more sinister going on.

I asked for the previous owner's details but the dealer said they couldn't give me his phone number (fair enough, data protection etc). I did ask if I could take some pics of the MOT docs etc so I could phone the previous testing station and I also took a sneaky pic of the V5, so have the previous owner's address (already tried BT but he's not listed).

So what are people's opinions here, does it sound well dodgy or is it quite possible that the discrepancy on the first MOT cert is just an honest mistake?

I'm going to try contacting the previous owner too, however at this stage thinking of walking away and looking for another.

The thing is, I can't get my head round why someone would go to the bother of changing the mileage for such an old bike as even something around 20k is still quite low for a bike of that age. The bike is in great condition, so it is possible that it's been crashed, had new fairings and speedo etc, however the forks, calipers and front wheel do have signs of use, so not obviously brand spanking new.

[Specialone]

Tbh Mark, gixxers are ten a penny, I'd walk away, there will many more be less suspicious ones around, I wouldn't touch that one.

[Nobbylad]

Cheers Phil. I thought the same. I've been after a low mileage one for a while and missed out on one recently. This one is completely standard except for a pyramid hugger, whereas most have after market cans, tail tidies etc.

Strangely enough, I'd prefer to pay the additional premium that a dealer would add, rather than buy privately, as at least I'd have 3 months warranty and some comeback in the event of any issues.

[Lawman]

Could possibly have been crashed and new clocks, etc added as you say or clocks replaced under warranty? . Can the dealership contact the previous owner and ask the question for you.

[Nobbylad]

I guess they could, but again, being cynical, I can't imagine them saying 'yeah, it's been down the road and fixed up without registering it'


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[DJ123]

do the chassis and engine number match up?

[Lawman]

I think you have convinced yourself to walk away...I think it would be the right decision in the circumstances

[Nobbylad]

do the chassis and engine number match up?

Didn't check that to be honest but can phone the garage and ask them tomorrow.


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[tigersaw]

Full service history? Sounds like there should be more stamps than that.
I'd not dismiss it entirely, but not proceed unless I could get find and chat to the previous owner.

[Nobbylad]

Service intervals appear to be 600, 4,000 and 8,000. So that could explain the 2nd stamp (even though there is nothing written on it i.e mileage).

Will be writing to the previous owner.


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[tigersaw]

First mot gives 12,932 miles in 2008 and the next one has been done by the current dealer this month with the mileage at 7,745

What happened to 09,10,11 and 12?
Was it laid up?

[Red Herring]

First mot gives 12,932 miles in 2008 and the next one has been done by the current dealer this month with the mileage at 7,745

What happened to 09,10,11 and 12?
Was it laid up?

Is it possible the clock was reading in Km at the first MOT? Has it been used as a track bike in the meantime, hence the nice new bodywork etc. Do the wheel rims look like they've only had a couple of sets of tyres on them (you can often see chips etc from changing, or residue from various sets of balance weights). Brake discs are another easy give away, how thick are they?

As others have said, if in doubt walk away, it's a buyers market.

[Nobbylad]

12k kilometres is 8k miles so don't think it's that.

The rims have some minor bubbling and no real chips. They look like rims off a 8yr old, 7k miles bike. Chain is in good nick, oiled, no rust. Shock is used but quite clean, again consistent with the age/mileage.

The top yoke is scuffed from a key ring by the looks of it and the only imperfections were really just the bubbling on the frame which doesn't look like a scratch that's been touched up and there is a slight scuff on the rhs mirror and tiny scratch on the bar end. The bodywork is immaculate and the tone and colours of the fairings are identical, so doesn't look like new bits have been added to old. In fact the only thing that doesn't add up is the first MOT.

Everything else points to a well maintained/looked after bike that's been used at weekends in good weather. It was SORN'd previously which would explain lack of MOT's from 2009 I guess.


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[Biker Biggles]

Id leave it unless it was really cheap which it wont be from a Honda dealer.Apart from the MOT/mileage issue,if it was "laid up" for 5 years there will be endless little faults from lack of use.

[fizzwheel]

Is it possible the mileage is 17,745 but the clocks have gone wrong and its not showing the 1 on the display ?

I cant remember but I'm sure the 16,000 mile service is a valve clearance check so you'd want to ensure that's been done as if the mileage is 17745 it should have been done.

How is it priced ? Is it priced similarly to other bikes of that year and milleage or does it have a price that is "To cheap to be true" kinda price.

Personally if the alarm bells are ringing, walk away. There are plenty of bikes ou there.

[Nobbylad]

http://www.craigshonda.com/locator/495460/2005-05-reg-suzuki-gsxr-gsx-r750-k5-only-one-former-keeper.aspx

[Biker Biggles]

Described as full service history.My take on that would be a book full of stamps and,much more important, the reciepts from all those services.That tells you who serviced it and what was done,and gives you somewhere to ask about the mileage.None of that seems to be there.You should treat the bike as indeterminate mileage,and buy,or not,accordingly.

[Nutsinatin]

All I can say is that I've had Honda dealers stamp the service book, then had to go back for them to sign and write in the mileage (which they also rounded up 300 miles from 5223 to 5500. I've also had a Kawasaki dealer pass my SV on its MOT (not daytime only) with no working headlights. Finally I've had a Suzuki dealer invoice me on a service for the wrong reg bike, this is all in the last two years! So mistakes defiantly occur, mechanics know about bikes, and aren't necessarily the sharpest tool in the box (pun intended). However, unless they offer you a price reflecting the suspicious mileage, or throw in some service sweeteners to cover any issues, do a full and comprehensive service to ensure that all is well I would walk away. It might be fine, but you'll be gutted if something is up, get what you know you want so you don't have niggling worries for the life of the bike. If I'm honest I've only bought two bikes, but I took someone else with me both times for an second unbiased opinion. It saved my **** once and I ended up with a better bike because of it. Personally I wouldn't touch it even if it was stupidly cheap.

[punyXpress]

...the mileage doesn't stack up 100%.



So what are people's opinions here, does it sound well dodgy or is it quite possible that the discrepancy on the first MOT cert is just an honest mistake?

'tis the Season of Goodwill etc, but " just an honest mistake? " by the motor/cycle trade? . . . pigs ( and reindeer ) might fly.

[Doinitmyway]

Described as full service history.My take on that would be a book full of stamps and,much more important, the reciepts from all those services.That tells you who serviced it and what was done,and gives you somewhere to ask about the mileage.None of that seems to be there.You should treat the bike as indeterminate mileage,and buy,or not,accordingly.

+1 to this. The receipt for payment of the service will or should list all the consumables used to carry it out, mileage is on all mine too. The service book should have all the numbers from frame and engine. No receipt then......

As for the '8000 mile service' that may refer to the type of service. I had a 6000mile one done early as I knew I'd be on tour, and a 15000 one done late because of the same thing :smt025

Chris

[Nobbylad]

Quick update.

I've written to the previous owner, asking him to contact me to discuss the history. I also called the garage that did the last 2 x services, they only went computerised 18 months ago, so don't have easy access to records from 5yrs ago.

I also called the 1st MOT station where the mileage was recorded as 12k. The guys there were really helpful and when I explained the issue, one guy did remember someone years ago bringing a bike back a while after it had been MOT'd, complaining that the mileage was wrong. The garage contacted DVLA/VOSA and asked if it could be changed, but there was some time period (28 days or something) where you can request errors be rectified. He said he remembers it because they even suggested writing to DVLA/VOSA but they wouldn't be swayed. I guess it's possible that this was the bike?

I'll wait and see if the previous owner gets in touch and take it from there.

Thanks for the feedback so far. I'm with the majority in that I'm sceptical (by nature), however I just can't understand why someone would go to the bother of changing the mileage unless it was way, way high, which the condition doesn't suggest. I appreciate, it could have been crashed/repaired, but to get it looking the way it does would take a serious amount of cash and you'd question if it was economical to do without getting the insurance to pay...and it's HPI clear.....

[Nutsinatin]

Just wondering if you're planning on keeping the bike as you're going to have just the same problem when you come to sell it?

[Nobbylad]

Would deffo keep it as I've wanted one for ages.


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[PyroUK]

Not entirely sure but....
Doesn't hpi just say if it has finance outstanding and whether or not it's been written off?

So, if it was crashed and the insurers repaired it it would still show as hpi clear so long as it was fully paid off?

Not that I want to add to your turmoil...

[Juju]

Don't forget, a vehicle is only recorded if someone records it.

If the bike was dropped/crashed and beyond econmical repair, but the rider was at fault and so theres no third party insurer to record it, and it didn't go through a comprehensive repairer due to excess, invalid cover, no cover or limited (third party only) cover, it can still be repaired by the owner.

[Nobbylad]

As an update to this thread, I finally bought the bike in question.

I wrote to the previous owner and he called me over Xmas, he sounded completely genuine. Older guy, just retired from being a bobby (and was a Police rider), he had kept the bike SORN'D with the intention of using it more in retirement. Only ever took it out on sunny days and then, only infrequently. He re-iterated the story from the garage who did the MOT (voluntarily, without me mentioning it) and said as he and his Mrs both have cars now, he was never going to use the bike.

Decided it was cash sitting in the garage, so sold it to webuyanybike.

I'm smitten :D

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/nobbylad/Bike%20pics/9DA4A161-68B4-496F-9E2B-F4628A6A067A_zpsi2xx42ou.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/nobbylad/media/Bike%20pics/9DA4A161-68B4-496F-9E2B-F4628A6A067A_zpsi2xx42ou.jpg.html)

[LiquidFlux]

She looks mighty fine, grats on the bike.

[otaylor38]

Does look like a lovely bike indeed.

Iv only had a quick skim though most of the middle part of the thread, so i apologise if this has been answered already.

So, how did the mileage go backwards?

[rb8989]

Thought the story was one owner since new, but had been part ex'd for a blade? I'm reading he says he sold to webuyanybike because he doesent ride anymore?

Excuse me if i'm getting mixed up.

Nice bike though.

[Nobbylad]

Garage I was buying it from said the previous owner had traded it in with them. Turns out they'd bought it from an 'intermediary'.

Mileage had gone 'backwards' as first MOT had 12k miles on, when in actual fact it was only 2k. They'd added an extra 1 by mistake.

[otaylor38]

Thats good then. Makes alot more sense :)

Its a very nice bike indeed. Enjoy it :).

[SUPERSTARDJ01]

If you buy it and have had a check done and later find out the mileage is incorrect you can claim off the HPI company if you use the right one, nut if alarm bells are going off I'd walk away too, or get a guarentee from the Honda garage.

[Nobbylad]

If you buy it and have had a check done and later find out the mileage is incorrect you can claim off the HPI company if you use the right one, nut if alarm bells are going off I'd walk away too, or get a guarentee from the Honda garage.

I guess you didn't read the full thread :rolleyes:

I am the proud new owner :cheers: