View Full Version : Advice on Dodgy Car Dealer
Hi all,
As you may remember a while back I bought a car from a dealer. The car quickly started showing signs of problems with suspension, driveshafts, gearbox and engine.
The dealer would not honor their warranty and when I wrote to them explaining I would be returning the car they changed their company name. I have been lied to and mislead and now I am not only out of pocket from the money I spent buying the car but also 2 months of insurance as I've not been able to use the car whilst this was ongoing. This works out to be over £300 that I have wasted just on insurance costs alone. The car was meant to be my winter transport but I have instead had to re-tax my ZX9 and risk that in this weather just to get to and from work.
Trading Standards did get involved but when the company changed their name they also changed the registered owner. Now the new owner has told trading standards that they are not willing to accept the car back or have anything to with it. I still have the suspicion that the same people run the business but have just switched over the registered owner to get out of it.
I'm now stuck on what to do. I have contacted my bank and they are looking into it but after what Trading Standards have said I'm not getting my hopes up.
I think I may have to take a trip back down there and see if the same people are still running it as when I phoned them shortly after the name change I was told that they no longer worked their.
They have done this in the past and I have lost too much money to just let this slide.
Any advice is very much appreciated.
Thanks
Iansv II
14-01-14, 05:51 PM
Pay someone with no job to sit outside with a large banner telling people about them, they'll get no trade and might come to an arrangement
What frustrates me the most is how changing the registered owner of the company removes them from all previous liabilities. The fact that this "new" owner has also ignored all my attempts at contacting them suggests that they are part of the same group of people that run the business.
I don't think I've ever been this p***** off before. The fact that I have done everything by the book and still have no end in sight. Sometimes I wonder if doing something by the book is actually of any help.
Wideboy
14-01-14, 06:01 PM
I'd seek legal advice TBF, CAB or the like. I can't see any legal way of getting your money but someone legally minded would know of some route to go down.
you could try this contacting watchdog and upload your story https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contact
Do they have a facebook / twitter page ;) ?
Dabteacake
14-01-14, 06:12 PM
You could go down there with a large bottle of brake fluid and talk with the owners! Might be just enough of an implied threat to get your money back
Better than painting cars lol
I don't know if I can afford to pay anything extra. I'm already applying for a second job just to cover the additional costs of not being able to use the car but still having to insure it as well as keeping my ZX on the road.
Thanks. Worth a try. Nothing else has worked in my favor yet, maybe this will.
You could go down there with a large bottle of brake fluid and talk with the owners! Might be just enough of an implied threat to get your money back
Better than painting cars lol
It just so happens that I have a 5 litre tub with me now. ;)
No I couldn't do that. I'd end up destroying any chance I had at getting my money back.
Fill a water balloon with brake fluid and do it from afar :) they would never know who it was!
a_monkey_hint
14-01-14, 07:05 PM
Park he car outside the dealership with as many posters as you can on the inside of the windows warning consumers to stay away, listing the problems with the vehicle & company. They'll soon phone you to sort stuff out.
Wideboy
14-01-14, 07:13 PM
Fill a water balloon with brake fluid and do it from afar :) they would never know who it was!
i prefer nitromors, it allows for artistic flare with a brush.
Sounds good. Although from what I have found out so far, it wouldn't surprise me if the car then ended up missing or vandalized.
punyXpress
14-01-14, 08:52 PM
Sounds good. Although from what I have found out so far, it wouldn't surprise me if the car then ended up missing or vandalized.
So, no worse off than now?
R E S U L T !
Mrs DJ Fridge
14-01-14, 10:20 PM
Unfortunately I think there is very little you can do, we has a customer go bust on us, the were supposedly taken over by new owners, but all of the staff are exactly the same all the way to the top, apart from the titular head, and the money owed to us and many others is just written off. The new 'head' seemed shocked when I said that hell would freeze over before I gave him credit.
ClunkintheUK
15-01-14, 08:17 AM
Unfortunately I think this sort of practice is pretty standard for some small businesses. One of my friends employer did this to one of his suppliers. The suppliers took them to court over about 30 grand. Won, including about 8 grand of costs. He started a new company virtually the same name. New contracts for the employees, old company went bankrupt and didn't pay its debt. I think some of them think they are being "Hard-nosed bizniz people".
Is there someone you can report trading standards to. If they've changed the name of the company not started a new company, then all liabilities are outstanding, it doesn't matter who owns it.
ChrisCurvyS
15-01-14, 10:57 AM
Yep I used to work for a small business organisation and this is a big issue - known as 'phoenix firms'.
A colleague of mine is currently going through a similar situation to you (bought a car from a small dealer which turned out to be accident damaged) and, after they got trading standards behind them, the dealer concerned basically insinuated that he would go down the phoenix route if they pushed for the full refund which they were entitled to.
Sound like you might just have to cut your losses and put it down as a lesson learned, as I did when I bought a car from Arnold Clarke on the spur of the moment and got badly shafted as a result.
I would probably be looking for ways to get some sort of retribution too without it coming back to bite me on the backside - don't forget the people behind these businesses can be some seriously shady characters.
It looks like I'm just going to have to try and fix it as cheap as possible.
Cosmetically it's in very good condition. Mechanically it has some problems.
Anyone know of decent, trusted garages that don't charge a fortune in the Killingworth area?
ClunkintheUK
15-01-14, 02:57 PM
Good luck mate. It really annoys me to hear about people doing business practices like this. let alone just being lying cheating scumbags. Apart from finding the mechanic, let us know if there is anything else we can help you source.
punyXpress
15-01-14, 03:14 PM
Or:
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss267/punyXpress/Scan-leaf-1.jpg (http://s582.photobucket.com/user/punyXpress/media/Scan-leaf-1.jpg.html)
Sir Trev
15-01-14, 03:20 PM
I've been to the Burlington Arcade recently Puny and I don't recall seeing this company there.
The posters in the parked car is not a bad idea. A chap did this in Norwich a few years back when his (brand new) car was a lemon and had problems with the supplying dealer. Made all the press as he no doubt tipped them off, was in a very prominent place and did the trick. However, these are not main dealers so beware of revenge tactics and/or dirty tricks if you go this route.
WARDY25
15-01-14, 03:23 PM
what kind of car is it out of interest???
Is the old company still trading? and can trading standards do a check at companies house to see who the Directors are? If so perhaps the small claims court route, £30 on line. Think trading whilst insolvent is illegal. Has the old compnay filed accounts with CH? etc. Oh and a phone call to those nice VAT people to say you paid cash but no receipt given even if not true might have an interesting result.
New company, if it is a different company even at the same address doubtful they have any liabilities to the old company if they are "limited". I think it's wrong but that's the way it is.
Sadly I think you might have to take the hit, worrying and stressing yourself out isn't worth it, life is too short. Remember bad karma has a way of catching up with people.
Your final option of course is to mention both companies. Why? because Google will index the thread and it will be searchable in the future for others to see. If the admins don't mind (check first) simply naming them in this thread will do. Won't help you recover the costs but you will know that others might be saved a nasty experience and that is worth good karma plus you will sleep at night.
Pete
Hello.
The car is a 2004 Vauxhall Corsa 1.2.
Unfortunately I am going to have to cut my losses and fix it myself. My bank have turned around and said that they want a professional report on the car plus proof of returning the car back to the garage.
The cost of the professional report and returning the car and cancelling my insurance is almost what the car is worth. Due to this being my first year of insurance I had to pay +£300 deposit and £150 per month since which I would lose if I were to cancel my insurance along with a cancellation fee. Add to this the cost of the report and I would end up worse off than I am now and so far my chances of winning are slim anyway.
So now I am looking to at least fix the little problems and find out if what I believe is a clutch bearing on its way out, actually is.
Anyone know any garages local to Killingworth who aren't going to rip me off?
Thanks.
I have filled in the form for Watchdogs but the stress is starting to catch up to me. In the long run it isn't really that much money but at the time it was pretty much every penny I had plus paying extra to pass my test in a month just so that I had a car for winter.
Just accepting that I now have to fix it myself has relieved a lot of stress surprisingly. Plus I can now, hopefully, take the ZX off the road and finally try and get it running properly.
ClunkintheUK
15-01-14, 06:34 PM
Due to this being my first year of insurance I had to pay +£300 deposit and £150 per month since
Duck me sideways. On a 1.2 corsa.
Why does the bank want the report etc? Is that to return it? Might be worth telling the bank so that the next time the lend to someone buying a car they tell them not to go to the same w4nker, I mean dealer.
If I were still in the UK, I'd gladly help you fix this. Unfortunately, I'm now about 5000 miles away from Newcastle.
It'd be a terrible shame if you left in in Walker or Elswick overnight with the window down an inch and it were stolen and burnt out.
I like the brake fluid balloon bomb idea too! It's cold out this time of year! Wear gloves and a nice warm scarf when you're out ;-)
C
Duck me sideways. On a 1.2 corsa.
Why does the bank want the report etc? Is that to return it? Might be worth telling the bank so that the next time the lend to someone buying a car they tell them not to go to the same w4nker, I mean dealer.
Yep. They don't even take into consideration the fact that I have previous road experience. Plus that is actually cheap compared to what a lot of other people pay for their first year.
If my insurance wasn't costing so much I would probably fight this to the end but it's just not worth it anymore with the cost of insurance.
My bank originally only wanted proof of purchase, emails and letters with a description of the symptoms. I sent all this to them then 2 weeks later get another letter asking me to phone them. Now they want me to resend all of that along with the report and proof of returning it.
What do they expect me to do? The garage will not accept it back so am I suppose to just leave it there? Still in my name and insurance?
Anyway I'm not stressing over it anymore.
yorkie_chris
15-01-14, 06:55 PM
What was/is up with it?
Both Driveshafts are worn and need replacing.
Brakes need replacing, at the very least the pads.
Offside rear coil spring needs replacing
Radiator fan or possible entire radiator needs replacing. (Whole car vibrates when the fan kicks in, radiator and fan don't feel loose though)
There is an audible clunk / knock when releasing the clutch and changing gear. Can also be felt through the pedal and gear stick.
Also a tapping noise coming from the around the airbox. Not sure what it is or if it's normal though.
At first I just wanted the main problems fixed under warranty or at least some the of cost covered. They refused so I informed them I would be returning it instead which I was legally allowed to do. They changed their name which meant they didn't need to accept it back.
That's the short story
yorkie_chris
15-01-14, 07:09 PM
Why did you buy it then?
At the very least chalk yourself up a big lesson in buying 10 year old corsas, they're all crap.
Another big lesson, used car dealers are all cnuts, if their lips are moving they're lying.
And last one, extra warranties are worth even less than a salesman's handshake unless they're external ones and properly underwritten... do yer research before parting with the extra 70 quid.
Anyway, I reckon you'd be on a sticky wicket with the bank and stuff, you need some proper legal advice as you could be returning it to a new garage on paper which wouldn't help at all.
By time you fooked about you could just fix those bits, you've listed like £100 worth of bits if you just did it with pattern stuff.
Dave20046
15-01-14, 07:26 PM
I'm sure you've looked into this but I'm not sure a straight 'change of company name' alleviates them of any responsibility, they'd have to liquidate the company and restart it I think (with different owners?)
Well if that program on CCJ sheriffs was accurate, they got a ferrarri back of someone despite him chaning the company name.
I take it you've looked into county court judgements and all that.
I bought it because not only did it look fine cosmetically, both inside and out, but I couldn't see anything wrong with and it after a short test drive couldn't find anything wrong with. Then again it's not like I have any real experience other than doing my lessons of driving a car so probably didn't notice these things at the time.
Like I said most of the stuff is cheap enough but I've never worked on a car before so was adding in the cost of labor to have it done by a garage. From what I've read online and what I've been told is that the clunking could be a clutch bearing and isn't this an engine out job? Which again would add up in labor costs.
But thank you for reminding me that I made a mistake.
I'm sure you've looked into this but I'm not sure a straight 'change of company name' alleviates them of any responsibility, they'd have to liquidate the company and restart it I think (with different owners?)
Well if that program on CCJ sheriffs was accurate, they got a ferrarri back of someone despite him chaning the company name.
I take it you've looked into county court judgements and all that.
They changed the company name and registered owner.
For the amount of money involved it really isn't worth my time or wasting any more money so I'm just going to take the hit. Lesson learned.
Dave20046
15-01-14, 07:29 PM
Sorry just re-read about the owners name. Baseball time.
I really do feel for you, I had a very similar experience. Luckily I DID get the thing fixed under warranty but it was a long struggle and the stress was pretty high as it almost put me out of work.
Goodluck, brake pads etc. are cheap but that clutch knock and the drive shafts sounds like the problem one.
Take to internet review sites too - I did this and the company couldn't get on the phone to me fast enough
Dave20046
15-01-14, 07:30 PM
They changed the company name and registered owner.
For the amount of money involved it really isn't worth my time or wasting any more money so I'm just going to take the hit. Lesson learned.
If it was over £600 I think you only have to part with £50 to pursue them.
I would (if it's possible) but understand it's ****stressful and I'm sat comfortably at a keyboard.
yorkie_chris
15-01-14, 07:39 PM
I bought it because not only did it look fine cosmetically, both inside and out, but I couldn't see anything wrong with and it after a short test drive couldn't find anything wrong with. Then again it's not like I have any real experience other than doing my lessons of driving a car so probably didn't notice these things at the time.
Like I said most of the stuff is cheap enough but I've never worked on a car before so was adding in the cost of labor to have it done by a garage. From what I've read online and what I've been told is that the clunking could be a clutch bearing and isn't this an engine out job? Which again would add up in labor costs.
But thank you for reminding me that I made a mistake.
clunk might be to do with driveshafts or engine mounts or something other than clutch.
clutch bearing isn't easiest job... gearbox out. Depends how the clunk feels though! Maybe get someone who knows what they're listening for to have a drive in it.
Aye quite a bit of labour, still, first car, what better way to learn!
Well somebody had to say it. Not to be too negative but I'd just chalk it to experience and sort it, maybe small claims court the owner. Like you say you're already up to your nuts in it with the insurance costs and they'll dry bum you even to change to another example of the same car.
I've just found another forum with someone complaining about the same company. But under a name I have not seen before. Looks like they've changed their name 4 times in less than 2 years. Each time to avoid having to pay any repair costs.
If the admins don't mind I can post up the name/s here for everyone?
kaivalagi
15-01-14, 08:22 PM
Sorry to hear this, but as said it might be a great way to learn some car mechanics and save on the heft labour charges at the same time, I guess it depends on how dependant on the car you are
Worth a shot giving Rogue Traders the heads up in case they take it on? If there's more evidence about of their antics it might make for an appealing bit of TV....
Suggest a crate of beer, a haynes manual and a couple of mates round for a day should have most of that lot sorted.
Pete
WARDY25
16-01-14, 08:07 AM
if you get a full list of what you need and all details ie reg and chassis number i work for Autovaux Wakefield, we sell all parts for Vauxhalls in either genuine, branded or aftermarket(cheap), ill see what i can do if your getting silly quotes, we post out etc so aint no problem there.
Sid Squid
16-01-14, 09:27 AM
Re; naming and shaming.
Do it.
As long as you can reasonably demonstrate that what you say has happened, has happened, then there's no reason why you should not tell anyone you damn well like, by any means you see fit.
So as long as you have reasonable evidence: Do it.
yorkie_chris
16-01-14, 10:13 AM
So long as you have reasonable grounds that you're not actually blaming a completely different entity.
Just a cautionary tale that a mate of mine, a mechanic, had some bell-end chasing him for costs incurred by the previous occupier of his unit.
I would suggest a hands on approach of hanging about and having a good look to check the same bloke who sold you the car is still about.
atassiedevil
16-01-14, 10:15 AM
Good advice.
confirm the same team is working there. If they are, feel free to name and shame.
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