View Full Version : M1 speed cameras
So what is the deal with all the speed cameras, mainly between Jct 6 and Jct 13 of the M1? I've seen some on the M1 around Nottingham as well.
They are so close together, it's almost like average speed cameras during road work times. They're attached to the variable speed signs, but last week I'm sure I saw a flash from a camera from the opposite carriageway, and today I'm fairly certain I got flashed as I was putting my foot down on the way back from work.
(I have a nasty commute from Milton Keynes to Slough at the moment, and having a 13 hour shift on the weekend with no rush hour for a change, got a tad carried away).
Mrs DJ Fridge
25-01-14, 10:26 PM
Well with all of the government cuts they have to get money from somewhere,
DarrenSV650S
25-01-14, 10:38 PM
Get an inforad. It has saved my life so many times
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I've thought of the inforad. Thing is, the vast majority of my driving/riding is on familiar roads so I know exactly where cameras are.
I was always of the thought that fixed speed cameras set for national speed on the motorway didn't exist. And if they did, what do they gain by putting 20+ of them between about 7 junctions. If they aren't fixed speed, then they must be average speed checks. In which case, how come they flash and look like fixed speed cameras and not the typical infrared types.
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4747/dsc3876.jpg
These mofos.
DarrenSV650S
25-01-14, 11:50 PM
I was always of the thought that fixed speed cameras set for national speed on the motorway didn't exist.
You are wrong
what do they gain by putting 20+ of them between about 7 junctions.
20+ £60 fines I would think
You are wrong
I hoped I wouldn't be. Where have you seen a fixed speed camera adjusted for national speed on a motorway out of interest?
Souldude
26-01-14, 12:22 AM
Average speed cameras only active when they indicate a speed you should be travelling at
Red Herring
26-01-14, 12:43 AM
The bad news is that they can be used for the 70 limit, the good news is that if you set off all 20 in a row you still only get one set of points.....but a nasty fine!
The bad news is that they can be used for the 70 limit, the good news is that if you set off all 20 in a row you still only get one set of points.....but a nasty fine!
do you get all the photos so you can make a flip book?
Biker Biggles
26-01-14, 03:22 PM
I was coming south down the M1 near Luton last week and saw several of them flash on the opposite side so it does appear they are active.And that was late at night so no variable speed limits on.
LewSpeight
26-01-14, 09:56 PM
I hoped I wouldn't be. Where have you seen a fixed speed camera adjusted for national speed on a motorway out of interest?
M62 between like, Jctn 25 and 27
Fordward
26-01-14, 10:30 PM
A few misconceptions here
They are not average speed cameras, they are just one off radar activated units on each gantry which trigger a camera, just like a Gatso, but digital. Average speed cameras (SPEC/SVDD) work on APNR technology to calculate speed over a distance, these don't. Unlike the average speed cameras you can speed up inbetween them.
Although they could be used to enforce the 70 limit, they only trigger when a limit is displayed on the matrix sign on the front of the gantry, bear in mind that could be an NSL sign. If the matrix sign is switched off you can go through at 100mph and it won't currently set the camera off.
They are there to enforce speed as part of a managed motorway system designed to prevent congestion. Controlling speed of traffic helps you to prevent congestion by limiting the concertina effect and introducing 'gates' only allowing traffic to speed up when the motorway ahead is running freely enough to cope with it. It manages the speed of the traffic at different points of the motorway to try and prevent that traffic from bunching up in one place and creating a queue. For the IT geeks it works in almost exactly the same way as a packetshaper and in theory the system does work. Trouble is they are not working because firstly people have learned where the cameras are and just slow down for the gantry with the camera on then speed up again, so the traffic is travelling towards the back of a queue at the same rate as it always did, and secondly because the control freaks in the control room are overriding the system and setting a fixed limit on every gantry, so the system is not free to adjust the speed of the traffic as it should. It needs a camera (or just an empty camera box) on every gantry so people can't speed up between them, and the control freaks need to leave it the feck alone to do it's job.
As a tip to know where the cameras are, in most cases if you can see the cameras on the opposite carriageway on approach to a gantry, there will be cameras on that same gantry on your carriageway too. Also if you look up at the shelf that holds the camera as you approach the gantry, you can clearly see if there is a camera box on it or not.
Fordward
26-01-14, 10:34 PM
I hoped I wouldn't be. Where have you seen a fixed speed camera adjusted for national speed on a motorway out of interest?
M62 between like, Jctn 25 and 27
Those are only set for national speed limit when the NSL sign is showing on the matrix sign. M42 Solihull, south M1 MK to the M25, M1 at Nottingham, M6 Birmingham, M20 heading for Dover, North West section of M25 are all the same.
West to South West section of the M25 (M40/Heathrow downwards) is an older system and I'm not sure if these work in exactly the same way or not.
yorkie_chris
26-01-14, 10:44 PM
Although they could be used to enforce the 70 limit, they only trigger when a limit is displayed on the matrix sign on the front of the gantry, bear in mind that could be an NSL sign. If the matrix sign is switched off you can go through at 100mph and it won't currently set the camera off.
I have heard of them being active at NSL. And I have seen them flashing on opposite side, this was on M1 northants sort of area. Though I didn't take note of whether the opposite side had a reduced limit.
FWIW, I don't risk it, I tend to just cruise control to make the sat nav say 75 which I reckon you'd have to be having a bad day for them to do you for <10% over.
LewSpeight
26-01-14, 10:46 PM
Those are only set for national speed limit when the NSL sign is showing on the matrix sign. M42 Solihull, south M1 MK to the M25, M1 at Nottingham, M6 Birmingham, M20 heading for Dover, North West section of M25 are all the same.
West to South West section of the M25 (M40/Heathrow downwards) is an older system and I'm not sure if these work in exactly the same way or not.
That was what everyone thought, but there've been reports of people getting done when there ARENT any signs visible.
Fordward
26-01-14, 10:49 PM
That was what everyone thought, but there've been reports of people getting done when there ARENT any signs visible.
There's 100's of 'reports' of UFO sightings every year too...
yorkie_chris
26-01-14, 10:53 PM
They've just got them working on loads of the M62 as well, not sure what the craic is there. I'm pretty cautious as the difference between 75 and 90 isn't much in time if you're only running 200 miles or so and only little bits of it have the cameras.
LewSpeight
26-01-14, 10:54 PM
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/highways-chiefs-reveal-m62-cameras-6152759
Fordward
26-01-14, 11:06 PM
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/highways-chiefs-reveal-m62-cameras-6152759
If that's true not just creative journalism then the Highways Agency are operating on extremely dodgy ground. The police are the only organisation allowed to covertly trap motorists for speeding. A speed camera operated by any other agency has to be clearly visible (hence the hi-viz on the back of speed camera partnership cameras) and clearly signposted, and the back of a gantry when the matrix sign is switched off is not clearly visible. Although well signposted with the normal speed camera signs, the expectation has been clearly set across the UK that they are not switched on when not illuminated, so use of them in this way on the M62 becomes covert. I agree with the AA spokesman that they should be clearly signposted as "in use at all times".
yorkie_chris
26-01-14, 11:12 PM
There is a big fookin speed camera sign next to the gantries. But in the usual tactic beloved of scamera partnerships "plaster the signs everywhere so people ignore them"
Fordward
26-01-14, 11:21 PM
There is a big fookin speed camera sign next to the gantries. But in the usual tactic beloved of scamera partnerships "plaster the signs everywhere so people ignore them"
The scamera partnerships still had to plaster the actual camera in so much hi-viz if you got caught by one you deserved a kick up the **** and an enforced visit to specsavers as well as a speeding fine.
Nick Freeman said in that article he'd represent anyone who got caught by one, and I'll bet his tack would be that the victim wasn't given fair warning.
If this article is true and not just quotes taken out of context/scaremongering (newspapers report on UFO stories too!) then Nick Freeman, the ABD and the AA clearly all agree on the matter.
yorkie_chris
26-01-14, 11:27 PM
Well that's fair enough, do you blast through them at 90?
Like I say, I offer no serious opinion on it other than an unreliable eyewitness account that I've seen them flashing when my side was NSL, and that I personally don't risk it much.
Good info there fordward. I am however 100% certain I set the camera's flash off, and there was absolutely no speed limit displayed. Saw the exact same camera flash again this morning on my way to work, and there were no limits displayed either. I'm starting to think their may be a fault with said camera, where it think it's set at a certain speed when in fact nothing is being displayed. I wasn't going any faster passed the camera that flashed me than the ones that didn't. It's more likely there is the one faulty camera that thinks it's still set at 50, than 19 others that didn't flash me when they should have.
Fordward
27-01-14, 08:49 AM
Well that's fair enough, do you blast through them at 90?.
Not after this thread I don't, not until I've got some clarity on it anyway, I'll be having a chat with the local boys in blue and the local highways agency.
Lets put it this way, the M42 cameras have been active about 4 years, the Nottingham ones probably 18 months to 2 years now, the southern M1 and M6 Birmingham for the best part of a year and the M62 for maybe 2-3 months. I've drive at least one of that lot at least twice a week during the day when the road is clear and the matrix signs switched off, and I've never been flashed or received a ticket.
I'm driving a large rep-mobile, wearing a suit and tie, and on the motorway constantly, so rather than post it on a forum I'll leave you to guess at the speed I routinely cruise at on a dry motorway with clear weather and light traffic. Its the same speed as every other bugger in a rep-mobile only unlike most I like to do it in the correct lane with a lot more stopping distance, and only where its appropriate for the conditions.
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Fordward
27-01-14, 08:52 AM
Good info there fordward. I am however 100% certain I set the camera's flash off, and there was absolutely no speed limit displayed. Saw the exact same camera flash again this morning on my way to work, and there were no limits displayed either. I'm starting to think their may be a fault with said camera, where it think it's set at a certain speed when in fact nothing is being displayed. I wasn't going any faster passed the camera that flashed me than the ones that didn't. It's more likely there is the one faulty camera that thinks it's still set at 50, than 19 others that didn't flash me when they should have.
Well if you weren't speeding then yes probably a faulty camera.
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Littlepeahead
27-01-14, 10:01 AM
The end of the world is nigh - they have now introduced speed cameras in Thailand. The one place you would whizz along the motorway doing 160kmph with no fear of getting an envelope 2 weeks later. Now I know this as our tour leader just got a ticket for his pickup, doing 133km in an 80km, but it was a front facing camera and most bikes in Thailand don't even have reg plates on the back so I think I'll be safe over there for a few years yet.
Well if you weren't speeding then yes probably a faulty camera.
Well I wasn't going much above 80 to be honest, but my speed was pretty much constant, yet I only set off the one camera. So it seems a few people have seen or known of the cameras going off at national speed. I think the real question is if anybody knows someone who has actually received points or a fine through the post from being flashed by a camera for breaking national speed on the motorway. I'll post back here in a couple of weeks to let everyone know.
Traders
27-01-14, 07:05 PM
I travel between J14-J12 everyday and there is one camera half way between J13-J12 that flashes constantly, but it doesn't have the camera's fixed as shown in your photo, its to the side near the hard shoulder . I have seen workman several weeks ago looking at this, but it still flashes. Not sure what it does as there are no camera's above the gantry even though there are road marking strips painted on the ground.
Could this be some sort of device that flashes to slow drivers down...
I have been caught out by this and was praying the letter wouldn't arrive..which it never did. phew
Fordward
09-02-14, 11:08 PM
Did ask about this (a senior Northants copper) but forgot to come back and update the thread. He said the HA may be using the cameras to survey speeds on the road when the matrix signs are off, hence the flashes, but he very much doubts they will be reporting drivers for speeding in those circumstances unless its a silly speed ie. 100 mph or more. What we have said about camera visibility above is correct, a speed camera sign alone is not enough for a civilian agency to use a camera for speed enforcement, the camera itself needs to be clearly visible and the speed limit has to be displayed.
The easy (but illegal) way to find out of course if the camera is operational is a radar detector.
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otaylor38
10-02-14, 12:11 AM
Very interesting read this. Its good to hear about those pesky cameras on the back of signs
Ill usually cruise between 70-80 on the motorway anyway, but i do make sure im doing 70 if theres any camera nearby.
I dont see the point in pushing my luck. I need my licence for my job and hobby so i can do without the points (insurance increase i can do without) for the sake of an extra few mph which realistically wont get me there much faster anyway.
The easy (but illegal) way to find out of course if the camera is operational is a radar detector.
I thought these were still legal. Incidentally, I've not had anything come through the post yet.
Specialone
10-02-14, 07:24 AM
Or an automatic gate opener on the front of your vehicle, these jam laser speed recorders, not that I condone these type of devices...
Fordward
10-02-14, 09:38 AM
Radar detectors have been illegal for years, its GPS based camera warning systems that are legal, but radar detectors are the only thing that will tell you whether a camera is active as you pass by because of course it picks up the radar signal.
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dirtyred619
10-02-14, 09:42 AM
Slightly off topic but seeing as there's a few people in the know, is there any more news on the proposed increase form 70-80 mph that was possibly happening?
longeatonlad
11-02-14, 06:26 AM
the ones near notts only work if the signs are lit up with a speed limit, and if they do work when theres no speed limit showing, well lets put it this way, ive been very lucky a lot of times... :)
tactcom7
11-02-14, 11:33 AM
Radar detectors have been illegal for years, its GPS based camera warning systems that are legal, but radar detectors are the only thing that will tell you whether a camera is active as you pass by because of course it picks up the radar signal.
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I'm fairly sure radar speed detectors are not illegal, halfords sell them for instance. I thought it was only illegal to act on there indications?
I too have seen the overhead gantry m62 cameras flash when there was no speed limit indicated. Reckon the guy was doing 85ish.
punyXpress
11-02-14, 12:14 PM
Slightly off topic but seeing as there's a few people in the know, is there any more news on the proposed increase form 70-80 mph that was possibly happening?
Not yet, but . .
" The government is proposing to reduce the speed limit to 60mph for a ... 28 and 35a, which goes past Mansfield, Chesterfield and Sheffield. "
Fordward
11-02-14, 01:20 PM
Radar detectors - there is a difference between what has been passed in law, what has been implemented, then what has been enforced. The legislation that allows implementation and enforcement has been passed through the house of lords so if you buy a radar detector and the government decides to ban them, they can do it tomorrow without consulting parliment and you have wasted your dosh. The only reason that can happen is by the back and white letter of the law (road safety bill) they are already illegal. Its no longer a question of legality, but a question of policy. There are plenty of illegal things that we choose not to prosecute people for.
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