Tube Strike

[saucysaunders]

So, the tube stike in London is on!

Which means all the 'summer' riders have taken to their bikes in a frenzy of not looking in mirrors and riding like maniacs (both slow and fast) in the wet, on busier than normal roads...

Anyone else experience similar this morning?

[Mrs DJ Fridge]

No, tube strike not very relevant here in Bognor Regis, storms are quite interesting though.

[chris8886]

it's all because bob crowe is refusing to talk to LU from what I can see, that man (as with all trade union leaders) is a complete and utter self centred ar5sehole!! all trade union leaders need to be lined up and shot in the head, they are so often just the cause of the 'problem'!

[Ninthbike]

it's all because bob crowe is refusing to talk to LU from what I can see, that man (as with all trade union leaders) is a complete and utter self centred ar5sehole!! all trade union leaders need to be lined up and shot in the head, they are so often just the cause of the 'problem'!
I agree completely. He is being paid over £120k PA to cause as much disruption as possible to tube users. The 1000 "job losses" that London Underground are proposing have already been covered by 1000 volunteers for redundancy! The strike is completely unnecessary and is just Bob Crowe having a sulk because nobody will listen to him. He is an illiterate ****.

[sumimasen]

Apparently he still lives in his council home and don't understand why people think he should move out (on a £120k salary)

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[Biker Biggles]

it's all because bob crowe is refusing to talk to LU from what I can see, that man (as with all trade union leaders) is a complete and utter self centred ar5sehole!! all trade union leaders need to be lined up and shot in the head, they are so often just the cause of the 'problem'!

Uncle bob speaks very highly of you though.

[Specialone]

Yep you've got trade unions to blame for our manufacturing decline, useless ****s.

[Matt-EUC]

Trade unions have far too much power. But their original purpose was a legitimate one.

[ClunkintheUK]

Yeah, I had a couple of exciting rides yesterday. I've shifted my day earlier by an hour to try and get better conditions at least in one direction. There were a lot of plonkers on the road. Done a couple of double overtakes in the last two days. 50 cc scoot hugging the traffic in out direction, even the "little" sv can deal with getting the speed on to overtake them as well as the cars.

[ClunkintheUK]

The non-commuter riders really do stick out like a sore thumb though don't they. Even ignoring the shiny bike and clean leathers.

[Spank86]

Yep you've got trade unions to blame for our manufacturing decline, useless ****s.

Them and the captains of industry.

Germany has strong unions and strong manufacturing.


Bob crowe specifically however is a tool, he's doing his worst for his men. I'd predict if this keeps up within 20 years there wont be many tube workers, the automation will be fully in control.

[chris8886]

Apparently he still lives in his council home and don't understand why people think he should move out (on a £120k salary)

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that wouldn't surprise me. it looked like from the interview that he did on bbc London news last night that he was doing it from his home (though I have very little evidence to back this up) and this home he was in, could never have been a council owned house!

Uncle bob speaks very highly of you though.



I should bloody well hope that he doesn't!

Trade unions have far too much power. But their original purpose was a legitimate one.



I quite agree!

Them and the captains of industry.

Germany has strong unions and strong manufacturing.


Bob crowe specifically however is a tool, he's doing his worst for his men. I'd predict if this keeps up within 20 years there wont be many tube workers, the automation will be fully in control.



I really hope it doesn't completely go this way, as I'm really not too comfortable with the idea of driverless trains for example, but I can also see things going that way :(

[sumimasen]

Isn't it currently as close to driverless as it can be? They have a dead-man-switch that they squeeze all day long?

On a commuter note though, haven't had any issues with other bikers. Had my foot pinned under the front wheel of a ******* Merc last night though. Had to start banging his hood for him to notice me and roll off. ****ing **** moron ****

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[chris8886]

Isn't it currently as close to driverless as it can be? They have a dead-man-switch that they squeeze all day long?

On a commuter note though, haven't had any issues with other bikers. Had my foot pinned under the front wheel of a ******* Merc last night though. Had to start banging his hood for him to notice me and roll off. ****ing **** moron ****

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quite possibly/probably is, but at least there is someone there even if they don't actually do a great deal anymore.


sounds about right for someone driving a merc in London does that. though I don't think I've ever ridden into London during rush hour. I only go for the soho meets on a Friday when I can.

[SvNewbie]

Not even, the Central, Jubilee and Victoria lines have people sitting in the front. Pressing buttons just to open and close the doors. The train does the rest itself.

[chris8886]

Not even, the Central, Jubilee and Victoria lines have people sitting in the front. Pressing buttons just to open and close the doors. The train does the rest itself.



yeh, thanks for that one. I really didn't need to know that! lol

[Ch00]

The DLR has always been driver-less. You get to sit at the front!!

[Spank86]

I really hope it doesn't completely go this way, as I'm really not too comfortable with the idea of driverless trains for example, but I can also see things going that way :(

The drivers are only there in case things go wrong most of the time anyway.

Can't remember which station it is has the glass barriers that are only open at the points the train doors stop. They HAVE to be computer controlled to be that accurate.

[chris8886]

The DLR has always been driver-less. You get to sit at the front!!



that is true, but then I use the the DLR so rarely as it's the opposite side of London to where I'm coming from.

[Mark_h]

The DLR has always been driver-less. You get to sit at the front!!

But it is funny when the train guy gets on and uncovers the buttons, tries to look important then after a couple of stops covers them up again and gets off. Must be weird to be entirely unnecessary but still have the keys to the buttons.

I'd love to have one of those stick-on fisherprice steering wheels and have that on the window sat in the seat next to him.

[ClunkintheUK]

Ahaha, going to have to go and buy a fisher price steering wheel just for that.

I personally prefer the idea of driver-less trains. Don't get bored and stop paying attention. stop in the right place on the platforms. Just not really sure what a driver adds to the equation.

[Matt-EUC]

Human error and plausible deniability. Probably. Or something.

[Mark_h]

..... Just not really sure what a driver adds to the equation.

That very special odour that only train staff can carry off. Kind of a mix of leather, athletes foot and dead tramp.

[ClunkintheUK]

Time to go brave the wilds of retarded non-commuter drivers at rush hour again.

Oh and Bob Crow is a money grubbing t***. he doesn't give a monkey's rear end about his union members, or prividing a service to London's tube users. As someone mentioned before it is still very necessary to have a trade union. There are many unions which do a lot to help their industry, their workers and the companies they work with, and Bob Crow and his ilk can't see past their fat grubby little noses to 6 months down the line let alone the fact that his members cannot have benefits/a job/their way of life if there is no industry for them to work in.

[Matt-EUC]

Do you think there is a union for people who work for trade unions?

[SvNewbie]

Do you think there is a union for people who work for trade unions?

Yeah, it's called the 10th circle of hell.

[Biker Biggles]

Them and the captains of industry.

Germany has strong unions and strong manufacturing.


Bob crowe specifically however is a tool, he's doing his worst for his men. I'd predict if this keeps up within 20 years there wont be many tube workers, the automation will be fully in control.

Quite right about Germany which also has competant forward looking industrialists and a government committed to industry.
As for Bob Crowe and the RMT its not so simple.Automation is going to come to the rail industry whatever the union does,so you could argue their best strategy is to hold things up as much as they can(not much in reality)and make as much money as they can in the meantime.I know several train drivers(not London underground)and they all get very well paid,but they all know the job is finished long term.The sensible ones are planning their futures accordingly.

[Littlepeahead]

I'm quite enjoying it. The Met line is running but it's been quieter than usual and as some stations are closed my journey had been quicker.

This afternoon I got a tube, with a seat for a change, from the Science Museum, where I'd visited an art fair, round to Monument then had a pleasant walk to Liverpool Street station through our rather fabulous city. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/07/dy8uzymu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/07/a4aranej.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/07/e2urenez.jpg

[Spank86]

Do you think there is a union for people who work for trade unions?
TUC

[Matt-EUC]

Aren't they salted crackers?

[Ninthbike]

I have a friend who has just joined London Underground on a three-month temporary contract which will be made permanent at the end. Completely unqualified for the job in question but got it because his wife has worked there for 10 years. He is paid £25 per hour which adds up to £4k per month for a 40-hour week. It's these levels of pay that are responsible for the required cost savings on the tube and for the extortionate fares that are charged. Tube drivers are paid £42k pa plus overtime. plus shift allowance - all for stop/go, open/close. How hard can it be???? BTW, the required 1000 job losses have already been taken by workers volunteering for redundancy because they will all walk away with a large cheque and be re-employed by London Underground next year.

[Spank86]

Trade Union council.

It's not a trade union for trade unionists but it is an association for the trade unions to group together.

[Red ones]

To be fair to tube drivers, they are paid well for sitting there holding a button. But like when I life guarded i was overpaid for sitting watching swimmers; but well underpaid if I had to do what I was paid for. Tube drivers are paid for when it goes wrong, when it's usually not their fault, beyond their control and just unfolding in front of them. I wouldn't want to sit and watch a jumper.

But the strike is about ticket offices. When did I last buy a ticket? I can't remember, I've been topping up my lobster card.

[Sid Squid]

Trade Union council.

It's not a trade union for trade unionists but it is an association for the trade unions to group together.
You're quite right of course, but it's Trade Union Congress, not council.

[Spank86]

You're quite right of course, but it's Trade Union Congress, not council.
well there you go, that just proves I didn't google it :p:D

[Littlepeahead]

The ticket office staffer yesterday who was on the platform giving directions did nothing when I white guy starting verbally abusing and then spitting at two young Muslim women waiting for their train. I went and stood between them and told him to pack it in and he skulked off. Staff member said 'not my job to call the police'. That's their attitude to helping people.

[Matt-EUC]

If he had called the police then the guy who's job it is to call the police would be made redundant.

[Ninthbike]

If he had called the police then the guy who's job it is to call the police would be made redundant.

That's trade unions for you! I once tried to change a UV tube in a big copying machine and got a b*llocking because it was not my job. The fact that I was more than capable, needed to use the machine and did not have time to hunt down the person whose job it was was completely irrelevant - I was taking someone else's job by doing this.

[cb1000rsteve]

Made me chuckle reading a lot of made up rubbish that no be actually knows sweet .. About. I've worked on the railway for over 10 years and we all know that a railway man is paid for what he knows not what he does. When all the computers fail(ie interlocking mechanical or electronic) the only thing stopping trains crashing into each other is the rule book and the railway mans knowledge of carrying it out. So he may be sat on the front of the train doing nothing but when it breaks his/her knowledge will get u home.
Bob crow is portraid in the papers which as we all know are propaganda for which ever cause they want you to believe etc. Just read the papers over the next few days and I bet ken Barlow is portraid as a saint now when a few months ago he was a sick kid fiddler.

No one wants to strike but sometimes it's the only way. It's not the chaos it causes that they'll want it's the loss of money or threat of it that usually over turns management decisions.

[thefallenangel]

Management in general are getting too big for their boots because of the incoming rush of Romanians and Bulgarians. I can't even go to sainsburys without them asking to wash my car. They seem to pick on women with kids too which i disagree with. But the majority of them can't do a job as good as a british craftsman. I've seen some pole jobs in work and they just ain't up to scratch. And my dad works with them in a well known supermarket warehouse where they are lazier than he is. So Unions striking anywhere at the minute I totally agree with

[Matt-EUC]

I work in a lot of carparks and, yes they're Bulgarian, but they don't pick on specific people. They ask anybody that might want a carwash. The fact that a vast amount of them are women with children is coincidental considering that supermarkets' largest demographic is women. Lots of women have children.

[Ninthbike]

Made me chuckle reading a lot of made up rubbish that no be actually knows sweet .. About. I've worked on the railway for over 10 years and we all know that a railway man is paid for what he knows not what he does. When all the computers fail(ie interlocking mechanical or electronic) the only thing stopping trains crashing into each other is the rule book and the railway mans knowledge of carrying it out. So he may be sat on the front of the train doing nothing but when it breaks his/her knowledge will get u home.
Bob crow is portraid in the papers which as we all know are propaganda for which ever cause they want you to believe etc. Just read the papers over the next few days and I bet ken Barlow is portraid as a saint now when a few months ago he was a sick kid fiddler.

No one wants to strike but sometimes it's the only way. It's not the chaos it causes that they'll want it's the loss of money or threat of it that usually over turns management decisions.

And how often do things "fail"?? So as per Bob Crow's recent comments following the bad weather "if we had not lost 2000 jobs on the railways the repairs would be done much quicker" meaning that we should continue to employ thousands of people doing sod all just in case something goes wrong. Nowadays businesses need a return for their investment and paying people to do nothing does not cut it. Many people lose jobs due to improvements in technology and railways and tubes are not exempt from this. Just because the tubes were built in Victorian times does not mean that they can continue to exist in that period.

[Red ones]

As a passenger I can't remember when I last used a ticket office. Have I ever used a ticket office? Clearly my fare has been paying for the ticket office, I'd rather that money spent on maintenance, security, and investment, an maybe a few more people at the gates to help people and calm the nutters.

[Biker Biggles]

And how often do things "fail"?? So as per Bob Crow's recent comments following the bad weather "if we had not lost 2000 jobs on the railways the repairs would be done much quicker" meaning that we should continue to employ thousands of people doing sod all just in case something goes wrong. Nowadays businesses need a return for their investment and paying people to do nothing does not cut it. Many people lose jobs due to improvements in technology and railways and tubes are not exempt from this. Just because the tubes were built in Victorian times does not mean that they can continue to exist in that period.

All true.Just as long as you are not one of those who whine like a jet engine when everything grinds to a halt in the face of a bit of adverse weather or other problem.There is a price to be paid for "efficiency"and that tends to be in resilience.It doesnt matter if a car plant has a couple of off days but it does matter if the transport system stops.Or the hospital.Or something else that is vital to everyday life.

[Amadeus]

There are many unions which do a lot to help their industry,


Such as? Not trying to be antagonistic, genuinely interested to know

[ClunkintheUK]

If train drivers are very predominantly sitting in the front of the train doing nothing and things very rarely go wrong, how are they acquiring knowledge?

[ClunkintheUK]

Such as? Not trying to be antagonistic, genuinely interested to know

I think Spank mentioned it, The german unions are very strong and german manufacturing is a strong as ever and the workers are well paid as they have embraced re-training and more efficient plants.

Also i have read a little about the unions in Japan, for example the workers union at Shimano is strong but are actually more inhouse representatives rather then separate bodies. Though some of this may be cultural, I believe that the workers are happy with their jobs and pay, on the whole. They believe that the CEO does consider their interests as well as the shareholders and company. Shimano has maintained its position at the top of their industry despite a local economy that has stagnated for over a decade and a global industry that has seen growing competition across the board.

[Spank86]

No one wants to strike but sometimes it's the only way. It's not the chaos it causes that they'll want it's the loss of money or threat of it that usually over turns management decisions.


And apparently the tube is special and it's the only way every 6 months.

How many strikes have you seen in any other single industry in the last 10 years? One or two?

[Red ones]

I think Spank mentioned it, The german unions are very strong and german manufacturing is a strong as ever and the workers are well paid.


You sure about the pay? In joining the Eurozone the average German worker saw small pay increases and the likes if Spanish workers getting large increases. That in part why Spain, Greece etc. suffered as they did. It levelled the German pay and happened to put them back in a more competitive position. There was pain in doing it especially when interest rates hit.

[Spank86]

You sure about the pay? In joining the Eurozone the average German worker saw small pay increases and the likes if Spanish workers getting large increases. That in part why Spain, Greece etc. suffered as they did. It levelled the German pay and happened to put them back in a more competitive position. There was pain in doing it especially when interest rates hit.


There's a difference between well paid and having pay increases.


German workers have had small increases for many years, this has kept Germany competitive and kept money flowing in to the country so that in real terms they are better off than others who might be paid more relatively and are living elsewhere.

[thefallenangel]

I work in a lot of carparks and, yes they're Bulgarian, but they don't pick on specific people. They ask anybody that might want a carwash. The fact that a vast amount of them are women with children is coincidental considering that supermarkets' largest demographic is women. Lots of women have children.


During a 30 minute wait for my gf as a rough stat. 30 different singles/pairs/groups of people walked past me. Any of them that had blokes in were avoided. These blokes weren't small blokes it was as if it was an intimidation tactic which is disgusting. Ironically all of them said no to them. Why can't they just stick to disused petrol stations and people go to them when they actually need them?

[Amadeus]

I think referral to the German unions is misleading. Germany has a law (forced on the Germans after the war by the UK rather ironically) where in dispute if it's not resolved in (I think) 30 days, a middle party steps in a decides and there is no appeal, so meaningful dialogue is the best idea.
I learned this in an hours conversation with the head gardener at Hughendon manor who is German.

So in the uk, are there any genuinely useful unions where the leaders are not failed/aspiring politicians?
It's funny how people are starting to see the real Scargill now (tho unfair to compare to tube drivers as the miners did have very real issues). Mr Crow has been found out considerably earlier. And what happened to Gilchrist?

[Matt-EUC]

During a 30 minute wait for my gf as a rough stat. 30 different singles/pairs/groups of people walked past me. Any of them that had blokes in were avoided. These blokes weren't small blokes it was as if it was an intimidation tactic which is disgusting. Ironically all of them said no to them. Why can't they just stick to disused petrol stations and people go to them when they actually need them?

They ask people they believe are more likely to say yes.

They aren't all unskilled either. I speak to them often and I've met engineers, welders, carpenters, tailors, masons and all manner of different skilled trades. I've been told that despite them making very little money by our standards try are making more than people back home with really good jobs.

[Amadeus]

Just avoid the ones with umbrellas.

[cb1000rsteve]

All safety critical railway workers are tested periodically on rules and regulations and if required standards aren't met they are re trained ( to a certain point then disciplined ) . Station staff will all be put on evacuation causes to help passengers in leave buildings due to fires etc. computer machines definitely won't be able to do this or provide first aide. I would hate to see another tube bombing but without these station workers evacuation first aid etc etc will be a lot further away.

[Mrs DJ Fridge]

I have sons big enough to wash the car so seldom get asked, oldest is over 6ft, but back on thread I live out of town as I have mentioned before, and especially when the boys were young I needed the ticket office person to help me get sorted. Easy to use machines when all adults in the group, more confusing when you have children, please do not send me a ton of messages saying I am stupid, I am sure if you live there it is easy.

[Ninthbike]

All true.Just as long as you are not one of those who whine like a jet engine when everything grinds to a halt in the face of a bit of adverse weather or other problem.There is a price to be paid for "efficiency"and that tends to be in resilience.It doesnt matter if a car plant has a couple of off days but it does matter if the transport system stops.Or the hospital.Or something else that is vital to everyday life.
Agree entirely. Which is why such vital things should be in public control and not that of trade unions.

[thefallenangel]

Agree entirely. Which is why such vital things should be in public control and not that of trade unions.

A cracking example of this is local water supply. Years ago you would be fed from a small tank or big reservoir but now with pressurized systems, it keeps your water bills down but you have no reserve supply when something goes wrong. We are in a long argument now over maintenance ways of working which has involved unions and the unions actually put it to ballot. I think there is a reality coming here between cost vs. service all over the country with different issues.

[Littlepeahead]

I don't mind it being automated as long a the machine can do the same as a human seller. So if I want to buy 2 off peak travelcards, one for someone over 60, several days before we plan to travel that is possible from a ticket office but I'm pretty sure it cannot be done from the machine.

If your ten pound not is a bit crumpled the machine won't accept it whereas the person at the ticket office can.

And if you don't speak great English as a tourist visiting London the person in the ticket office will give you directions from Baker Street to Lord's and Abbey Road (I know, I hear people asking all the time) but I doubt the machine is going to be able to help.

Anyway I have been relieved of travelling by tube today as a person has killed themselves under a train at Brentwood on the main line so I'm having to work from home.