Confidence/target fixation/trusting the tyres.

[socommk23]

Hey guys.

Ive been riding since 2000 and like most people it took a while to get my confidence up to a pointbwhere I wasnt worrying about all the stuff in the title. To be honest I ended up getting pretty over confident at times and became one of those nutters that would leave 99% of other fast riders behind even on a lesser powered bike. At the time it was cool. On reflection I was a tool. I had a couple of accidents (13 to be precice) with about a 50/50 my fault/their fault ratio. Either being silly on cold tires and low siding, or having people in cars pull out on me on roundabouts. After 2 particular crashes (girlfriends ended up in hospital) it really hit me. My ex could tell when I was hesitant (yes she got back on the bike with me.....till she got her own sv) and it was diwn hill from their. I still reember the last ride I went on...approaching an easy bend with a wall on one side......I just couldnt stop looking at it.....I was only doing 30 and heading straight for it. I stopped in time....turned around and went home. Put the tl in the garage for 1 1/2 years...sold it and that was it.

4 years later im back on a bike. My second sv650. After meeting my current gurlfriend who has a gladius..I started thinking about the fact that I gave up due to fear. And that bugs me....big style!

So now I still gave deamons to purge.

Has anyonevelse had a similar problem? How did you deal with it? Any advice greatly recieved. I just want to enjoy it again.

[Sid Squid]

It's natural for your confidence to take a knock, especially if you have a incident that isn't readily understandable, that you realise your riding/confidence isn't up to scratch is a big part of improving.
Firstly, don't give yourself a hard time over it, everyone has doubts at some time - to a greater or lesser degree.
Secondly, consider what's actually wrong, if it's a confidence matter get out there and ride, but don't rush - you'll learn nothing. In your position some advanced tuition sounds like a good move, even the best and most experienced riders develop bad habits, and there is no-one that can't learn, your concerns are exactly the sort of things that are addressed by a willingness to learn.

[PyroUK]

Ouch!

Whilst not as extensive as your history, I can get where you are coming from. I high sided on a round about a few years ago and broke my collar bone and had it plated.

Was out of commission for 2 months and lost a lot of strength in the shoulder and arm. When I got back on the bike I had real difficulty in trusting my arm and the bike in corners.

Unfortunately where I was concerned there was no quick fix, I had to approach it like scrubbing in new tyres, gradually over time going further and further over in corners I knew to get the confidence back.

Hope you find "your way" soon and can get back to enjoying 2 wheels!

[SUPERSTARDJ01]

Get yourselves on an advanced riding course.

[DryRob]

I'd say advanced riding as well, look for your local IAM group and go down for a (usually) free assessment ride. They should be able to help with confidence in yourself and your bike.

[chris SVK3]

Track days and enduro seems to be solving my issues after an accident. Fun to be had plus you don't have cars to contend with

[socommk23]

Was thinking about track days. Just a chance to have less hazards to worry about. But the advanced courses sound likeva good idea

[NTECUK]

Find a Bike Safe course near you.
It's going to give you some good pointers.
The wall incident shows your over thinking the times you have collided.
You need to let go your fears.
So just take it down a notch or two.

[Blueperson]

+1 Bike Safe

[SUPERSTARDJ01]

Bike safe is good but not as comprehensive as IAM, ROSPA etc.

[wideguy]

Modern tires are brilliant. If your riding on the street is getting you to the point where tire traction is an issue, you're going too fast.
The place to think about trust in your tires and to explore the limits of their traction is on a track.
Once you find out, on the track, how good your (warmed up) tires really are, you can ride confidently on the street at a pace that leaves you a margin for escaping safely from whatever hazards arise. Most of the time anyway...
Nothing you can do about target fixation except to look where you want to go. Even when you have a bad feeling that you're going to end up elsewhere, look where you hope to go, down the road, in your lane, past the debris on the road, not through it. Around the car, not into it. Practice it, think about how well it works, because it does work.
I have a lifelong bad habit of turning in too soon on left hand turns. (We ride in the right lane here.) If I can see clear road through the turn, I tend to go there, which often takes me too close to the road center, or into the other lane, so I still have to think a bit and tell my self to wait a little before I turn in. Crossing into the other lane is a habit I don't want to have. But I know I have to watch myself and think about it, so I do.
Thinking about escape plans as you ride can help. Like, "What will I do if that car ahead suddenly pulls in front of me on the roundabout?", or "What if there's a patch of gravel in this turn that I can't yet see?".
If nobody's behind you, you can practice things like hard braking to a slow speed, with a quick turn when you're almost stopped, something that I've needed to do numerous times, and haven't always done successfully.
Or practice quick line changes in a turn, often helpful to avoid hitting things that weren't visible when you chose your line.
Think you're going to fast to safely do a quick line change? Probably not too fast for the bike or tires, but, if you get that feeling of panic, you were going too fast for you mind, too fast for your confidence level, too fast for your current abilities.
Practice. Think. Practice. Learn your bad habits by observing your own riding.
Most often when I ride, I'm very focused. When I'm not, I slow down. A mind full of distractions is a dangerous thing to carry with you on a ride.

[NTECUK]

Bike safe is good but not as comprehensive as IAM, ROSPA etc.

IAM ROSPA when your more comfortable.
It's allot to take on board with those
.
Yes it's how we should ride /drive
But a steady progressive approach is easier to handle

[Biker Biggles]

Agree with a bit of tuition but--------a little contrversial--------you had 13 prangs and you say half of them were your fault.That means you had 6 that were not your fault?I dont buy that and think you need to do a deeper rethink of how you ride.There are ways of anticipating trouble ahead and hence avoiding being in the position where a prang happens,even if that prang is not technically or legally your fault.Worth doing an advanced course to learn some tricks for not having that accident.

[johnnyrod]

I'd echo the above comments about advanced training. You'll learn useful skillz but also you'll learn a new mindset, whicih it sounds like is what you need. If you're mainly interested in road riding then yes IAM/Rospa is best; there is a whole set of skills to do with sharing the road with other users e.g. cars, horses, roundabouts where things like weather and corner radius aren't your limiting factors. If you want to ride fast on a track then go and do that, but for most people that's in addition to road riding so I wouldn't start there.

In reply to your specific points in the title, target fixation is a problem but both track and road training aim to do away with this. It takes practice though and this can be difficult as it's all in your head. As for trusting the tyres, this is a recurring one and can be tricky to get over. As wideguy says, modern tyres are da bomb. If you want new ones then get some. If checking the pressures before every ride helps you then do this. One thing you can do is use more throttle on the exit and less lean (corner speed) to convince yourself the tyre isn't going to slide. If it does you can roll off the throttle a bit (or use the back brake), if you are using up grip with lean angle then once it goes you don't have many places to go. I'm not suggesting you go out and do doughnuts, but it's a more controlled way of using up your grip and thereby getting a bit of trust back in the rubber.

[SUPERSTARDJ01]

I suspect your a weekend worrior that wants to get his knee down, thinking this is the fastest route around a corner, when in reality it's much much slower, do a free check ride see if what they say, but you will have to ride as you would by yourself or it's pointless.

[Specialone]

From a person who suffered badly with confidence after a 30mph off with no injuries, I feel your pain.

Couple of points, IMO, you were riding too fast for the road, I've ridden with quite a few off here and they do ride way too fast for the road, I'm not knocking them but that's what I believe, very good riders but still too fast.

I'm not a fast rider, I like a blast but I have backed off my speed in the last couple of years, I've tried to get better at cornering without increasing my overall speed and tried to get smoother.

I have considered doing CSS but tbh, deep down, I'm worried if I got better, I'd ride a lot faster, which I know I would, if you ride excessively fast on the road it's just a matter of time before you get injured in a big off, I'm self employed, I can't afford to.

I prefer off road riding these days too, I find it more technical with less risk involved.

So my advice, get back out riding but slow down, build your confidence back up slowly, concentrate more on the details than the speed.

[Red Herring]

You need two sets of skills to ride a bike well.

One set is all about controlling the bike, operating the controls and basically not falling off.

The other set is all about how you control yourself and use your brain so that you don't get into a situation where you could fall off in the first place....

Riding on the track involves 90% machine skills, 10% brain. Riding on the road is the other way around.

Advanced riding courses are all about helping you develop the way you think about your riding. If you can read the road and traffic you don't have to be a particularly skillful "rider" to go well on the road. The vast majority of road crashes are down to a lack of thinking rather than a lack of machine control skills, although they do help you get out of a hole if you do make a mistake....

Without sounding to patronizing the fact that you have recognized you need to improve is half the battle, all you need to do now is find a way forward that works for you. IAM and ROSPA groups are the most organized, but they are hard going for some if you don't fit with each others expectations. There are plenty of videos on the net that have a few gems to offer, and even a few tips in some forums....

I've always believed in learning from others mistakes as they are generally cheaper and less painful than making your own, however you have a wealth of first hand experience to draw on. I'd start by really thinking about your 13 incidents. Were they really 50/50 or could it be a case of you assuming the other driver/rider was going to do something... and then they did something else. Good luck.

[NTECUK]

If you are on a road you don't know, it's most important to ride with reserve.
If you enter a corner at full lean angle and then suddenly realize it's beginning to tighten up, it will be too late to correct. The trick is to go into each corner knowing that no matter how tight it gets, you will be able to compensate with the little extra you have kept back.
The same applies for junctions ,or other points were anything can stray in your path(Like sheep,dear etc).Theirs no point in saying ."I had the right of way" .when your in casualty."
Keep that bit in reserve.
If the worst comes to the worst ,look for a way out ,Not at whats in your path.
Practice emergency braking(your know what its like when it locks ,so your have less to worry about it as you try to avoid the kid who just ran out in the road to see his friends).
or say Hang that, I'll do track days ,less interference but a black hole of money ;)

[socommk23]

Agree with a bit of tuition but--------a little contrversial--------you had 13 prangs and you say half of them were your fault.That means you had 6 that were not your fault?I dont buy that and think you need to do a deeper rethink of how you ride.There are ways of anticipating trouble ahead and hence avoiding being in the position where a prang happens,even if that prang is not technically or legally your fault.Worth doing an advanced course to learn some tricks for not having that accident.


wether you buy it or not, those are the facts. only so many accidents you can avoid with forward planning. stopping at red lights and getting rear ended isn't one of them for starters.

[socommk23]

I suspect your a weekend worrior that wants to get his knee down, thinking this is the fastest route around a corner, when in reality it's much much slower, do a free check ride see if what they say, but you will have to ride as you would by yourself or it's pointless.

you suspect wrongly. knee down is a showoff way round a corner. not the fastest. I have no interest in that. I want to be confident enough to corner without looking 2 meters in front of the wheel, without worrying about that one patch of damp road mid corner, without worrying about "what if" to the point it becomes "oh ****".


I can see the trend towards road riding skills cources and I am going to look at doing a ride safe one. also recommended to me by my ex.
thanks for your time guys.

[Red Herring]

wether you buy it or not, those are the facts. only so many accidents you can avoid with forward planning. stopping at red lights and getting rear ended isn't one of them for starters.

Well that rather depends on where you stop. If you stop bang in the middle of your lane then you're a sitting target. Try stopping nearer to the kerb, or if multiple lane then on the line between them. The way I generally explain it to people is that in town there are car lanes and bike lanes. Car lanes have a greasy sump line down the middle of them, bike lanes have a dotted white line........

[NTECUK]

If you in a que .Give yourself an out.Don't sit up the **** of the motor in front.
plus your see more
http://roadcraft.co.uk/uploads/_CGSmartImage/img-e446e0c8bb13e7d94c6f361c92e65fd5.jpg

http://rideapart.com/2013/08/10-common-motorcycle-accidents-and-how-to-avoid-them/
read that then on bike safe your be a top student.
Some of the guys are ok if you ride spiritedly
some aint .

[wideguy]

You're on the right track.
Confidence in your skills, realistic confidence, only comes when you know what your skills actually are, and that takes time to learn. The more you are paying attention, the less time involved.
If you are riding anywhere, street or track, and you are making yourself nervous, you are riding over your head and should slow down. If you're one of those people who doesn't get nervous and feels invulnerable all the time, maybe you should chose a different sport.
Good safe riding requires a clear head and good focus. You have to learn enough to keep your mind ahead of the bike and functioning so that you don't panic, ever, and when something unexpected arises your first feeling is that you can handle it, it's within your set of proven skills, and you have a reserve of performance from your bike and tires to draw on.
Skills take time to develop, at whatever your own learning pace is.
Ride within your current comfort zone. Work on your skills. Practice being smooth. Speed will come along, or not.
If you can find a road riding skills course that's taught on a race track, they are worth paying for, and in my opinion, far better than road riding skills courses taught in a parking lot. If you find a good one, take it more than once. Once in the spring and again in the fall would be good.

[Biker Biggles]

wether you buy it or not, those are the facts. only so many accidents you can avoid with forward planning. stopping at red lights and getting rear ended isn't one of them for starters.

Like I said "a little contraversial" and I understand why you may feel a tad offended.Having said that there is a school of thought that says ANY accident is partially the fault of each party in that the "non fault" driver could have done something to avoid the problem but failed to do so.Its a totally different concept to legal or insurance blame,and is all about foreseeing problems and not being part of them when they happen.It also doesnt mean you will never have an accident however good you are,just that the probability moves a long way in your favour.

[wideguy]

Like I said "a little contraversial" and I understand why you may feel a tad offended.Having said that there is a school of thought that says ANY accident is partially the fault of each party in that the "non fault" driver could have done something to avoid the problem but failed to do so.Its a totally different concept to legal or insurance blame,and is all about foreseeing problems and not being part of them when they happen.It also doesnt mean you will never have an accident however good you are,just that the probability moves a long way in your favour.
Yep, a couple times, I could have stayed home...

[Red Herring]

Yep, a couple times, I could have stayed home...

And burnt yourself doing the ironing....

[wideguy]

And burnt yourself doing the ironing....
I never iron. Far too easy to get hurt!

[SUPERSTARDJ01]

you suspect wrongly. knee down is a showoff way corner. not riding stest. I have no interest in that. I want to be confident enough to corner without looking 2 meters in front of the wheel, without worrying about that one patch of damp road mid corner, without worrying about "what if" to the point it becomes "oh ****".


I can see the trend towards road riding skills cources and I am going to look at doing a ride safe one. also recommended to me by my ex.
thanks for your time guys.

I did say it's much slower, didn't mean to offend, glad to see your looking at advanced riding courses.