Insurance

[chris8886]

Right, have just had my insurance renewal through and they are wanting to charge me more than last year (as ever with the old insurance companies). so have stuck my details into a comparison site as usual and immediately have significantly cheaper quotes. however i have a medical condition, so i know i will have to phone whoever i decide to go with (which may end up changing it all anyway), but i'm more wondering what "extras" people see as very much worth having and which ones people don't usually bother with cos it's just not worth it etc. i always go for TPFT insurance too cos my bike just isn't worth insuring fully comp as it's value is probably only about £1200 max.

[PyroUK]

I usually only go for helmet and leathers and breakdown (if it's cheaper or better than I already have). Most quotes I get have legal incl.

Normally don't bother with personal accident unless it's free.

I always go FC, even if your bike ain't worth much the option to have a hire bike/car can be worth it.

[chris8886]

I usually only go for helmet and leathers and breakdown (if it's cheaper or better than I already have). Most quotes I get have legal incl.

Normally don't bother with personal accident unless it's free.

I always go FC, even if your bike ain't worth much the option to have a hire bike/car can be worth it.

lovely, thanks pyro. have to say that I'd never ever thought about/considered the getting a hire bike out of the insurance if I were to have a crash. having never had a crash on the road, it's just something that hasn't ever crossed my mind! that's given me some real food for thought, I shall now go back and re-consider my options and see what sort of prices I get for fully comp.

[PyroUK]

No worries, it never occurred to me until I needed it!

Worth checking what hire policy type they offer though. From memory there are 2 types and one is better than the other as it can shaft your claim spend a lot! Oh and also whether or not they will provide one for an at fault or solo incident claim!

[chris8886]

No worries, it never occurred to me until I needed it!

Worth checking what hire policy type they offer though. From memory there are 2 types and one is better than the other as it can shaft your claim spend a lot! Oh and also whether or not they will provide one for an at fault or solo incident claim!



righto, that's excellent info to be starting with, thanks once again pyro, much appreciated!

[Littlepeahead]

Don't bother with helmet and leathers cover unless you have really expensive new kit bought full price with all the receipts. Without all that you won't get much and if an accident isn't your fault you can claim for that off the other party.

Only get breakdown if you aren't covered on your family one, check with your mum.

Do get legal cover. Having someone to do all that in the event of an accident is vital even though when Stu had his off it was me took photos of the road markings, created a presentation showing how Stu couldn't have been at fault and managed to get a witness statement disregarded on minor points that showed he wasn't a credible witness even though he was police.

Have you tried any of those specialist insurance brokers I told you about for people with heart conditions?

[chris8886]

Don't bother with helmet and leathers cover unless you have really expensive new kit bought full price with all the receipts. Without all that you won't get much and if an accident isn't your fault you can claim for that off the other party.

Only get breakdown if you aren't covered on your family one, check with your mum.

Do get legal cover. Having someone to do all that in the event of an accident is vital even though when Stu had his off it was me took photos of the road markings, created a presentation showing how Stu couldn't have been at fault and managed to get a witness statement disregarded on minor points that showed he wasn't a credible witness even though he was police.

Have you tried any of those specialist insurance brokers I told you about for people with heart conditions?

I know already that I'm not in with the breakdown cover so I shall be looking for that to be involved anyway, thanks. am always looking for the legal cover bits n pieces too.

I'm afraid I don't remember you telling me about those, would you mind telling me again please?

[DJ123]

Also, TPFT can go against you (to an extent) as they can determine it as you think you are a liable to make a claim . . . .
Generally I find TPFT & FC very close on pricing.
-don't make your excess silly high. If you make your voluntary £100, it will only reduce your policy by £5. Not worth the extra hassle & expense.
-I don't go for helmet or leather cover, not worth it.
-Riding other bikes 3rd party, if it is an extra or will knock money off not having it.
-Get recovery added on there (generally cheaper than getting a different company)
-Add legal
-Don't worry about a hire bike (if you are unfortunate to have an accident you'll get one)
-NCB protection

[Littlepeahead]

I'll have a look tomorrow, it was one of the heart charities.

[orose]

Don't bother with Helmet and Leathers if you have really expensive kit, unless the max value covers it - the last couple of policies I've looked at had a limit of £750, which wouldn't cover my boots, gloves and helmet together, and prices have only gone up since then.

[chris8886]

Also, TPFT can go against you (to an extent) as they can determine it as you think you are a liable to make a claim . . . .
Generally I find TPFT & FC very close on pricing.
-don't make your excess silly high. If you make your voluntary £100, it will only reduce your policy by £5. Not worth the extra hassle & expense.
-I don't go for helmet or leather cover, not worth it.
-Riding other bikes 3rd party, if it is an extra or will knock money off not having it.
-Get recovery added on there (generally cheaper than getting a different company)
-Add legal
-Don't worry about a hire bike (if you are unfortunate to have an accident you'll get one)
-NCB protection



thanks for the points DD, I shall definitely look closer at fully comp now even more so as I now have 5 years NCB and protecting it would be quite a good idea I reckon and I do always try n keep the voluntary excess at £0 where possible, as I have noticed what you said in the past too.

[EssexDave]

Helmet and leathers essential. I had cover of £1,000 with Express Insurance a while back.

Sent them pictures of my helmet, leathers, gloves and boots that were damaged in an off and they gave me £950 odd to replace them all. Pretty handy considering that actually, when you're bike is sub £2,000 - quite often the damage to kit is more than damage to the bike!!

It also means you don't have to worry about running around in a banged helmet/gear etc.

I think it cost me about £10 for the year too or something silly. (Although that was haggled)

Oh and I'd +1 to all of the:

NCD protection, breakdown (if cheaper than elsewhere), I never add on a voluntary excess as doesn't make anywhere near a difference - it's there for people who don't realise and just click it up anyway.

I've never bothered with legal - you can generally find solicitors who will work for you no win no fee for motor vehicle accidents, or quite often house insurance policies include legs.

[chris8886]

I'll have a look tomorrow, it was one of the heart charities.


lovely, ta very much.

Don't bother with Helmet and Leathers if you have really expensive kit, unless the max value covers it - the last couple of policies I've looked at had a limit of £750, which wouldn't cover my boots, gloves and helmet together, and prices have only gone up since then.



I shall look at it and have a decision to make, thanks for the input.

[Littlepeahead]

Interesting coherence on the helmet and leather cover, one for the small print. Do you have receipts for all your gear?

[chris8886]

Helmet and leathers essential. I had cover of £1,000 with Express Insurance a while back.

Sent them pictures of my helmet, leathers, gloves and boots that were damaged in an off and they gave me £950 odd to replace them all. Pretty handy considering that actually, when you're bike is sub £2,000 - quite often the damage to kit is more than damage to the bike!!

It also means you don't have to worry about running around in a banged helmet/gear etc.

I think it cost me about £10 for the year too or something silly. (Although that was haggled)

Oh and I'd +1 to all of the:

NCD protection, breakdown (if cheaper than elsewhere), I never add on a voluntary excess as doesn't make anywhere near a difference - it's there for people who don't realise and just click it up anyway.

I've never bothered with legal - you can generally find solicitors who will work for you no win no fee for motor vehicle accidents, or quite often house insurance policies include legs.



thanks for that dave, I'd become quite dismissive of helmet n leather cover etc. but now you put it like that, you make a VERY good point! thanks pal.

[chris8886]

Interesting coherence on the helmet and leather cover, one for the small print. Do you have receipts for all your gear?



I think I do, I'm pretty sure I do for my lid (just cos it was so expensive etc), but I'm not quite so sure about the rest of my stuff.

[DJ123]

Interesting coherence on the helmet and leather cover, one for the small print. Do you have receipts for all your gear?

you don't need receipts as your claim isn't for what it is worth, but what it costs you to replace.


The quote you on what it will cost you to replace your gear. EG if you have a goretex Dainese jacket, you send them the replacement/equivalent model that is currently available.

[Littlepeahead]

And don't forget they reduce the figure for depreciation. Stu didn't get a receipt at the bike show for his suit, I don't recall you getting a receipt with yours either and you paid at the same time.

[DJ123]

http://quote.bikesure.co.uk/ScreenSetup/documents/policywording1238.pdf

[EssexDave]

I provided them with the original cost of all of my items by going to a shop and getting them to print off what it would cost me to replace them.

I then took photographs of all of the damage and sent them in an email to the gentleman dealing with it.

We haggled a little bit over the amount, although they sent me an interim payment of £600, and I haggled them up to £950. They wanted to deduct loads for general wear and tear, and I argued by saying I wear textiles normally, and my leathers I would expect to last me over ten years.

It is NOT going to buy you completely the same stuff for the same value as you paid new. Also, they wouldn't cover my luggage - it was only the items I was wearing as protective gear.

However, that £950 made all the difference - especially seeing as I was skint at the time. Although, I would certainly read the terms and conditions of it (because I'm an anorak) before taking out a policy to make sure I can comply with it.

At the end of the day though, it all comes down to a gamble (as all insurance is and interestingly it used to be illegal as a form of gambling back in the day).

If Helmet and leather cover will cost you £50 a year, and you reckon you'll only get £400 - then do you expect to crash once every 8 years and write off all your gear?

It's a choice you have to make, but I like the piece of mind for the small cost and a lot of companies, if you haggle well, will throw it in pretty cheap!

[Littlepeahead]

Yep, there's the catch. They say they will take off an amount for wear and tear. So if you've got a 5 year old lid, you're stuffed. Stu had that problem, his gear was a few years old and he didn't have receipts anymore. So they worked on the assumption he was using his gear every day and that it would be worth not a lot.

[chris8886]

And don't forget they reduce the figure for depreciation. Stu didn't get a receipt at the bike show for his suit, I don't recall you getting a receipt with yours either and you paid at the same time.



I'm fairly sure I did, as I paid by card I think, but I shall have a look and see.

If Helmet and leather cover will cost you £50 a year, and you reckon you'll only get £400 - then do you expect to crash once every 8 years and write off all your gear?

It's a choice you have to make, but I like the piece of mind for the small cost and a lot of companies, if you haggle well, will throw it in pretty cheap!



that's why I need to have a good think about it, insurance companies are gits really and all need to make a profit somewhere.

[TamSV]

Just my own opinions...

Comp v TPFT
As has been said, the price difference can be pretty minimal so at least worth checking. Possibly not worthwhile for the unfortunate young 'uns who are paying through the nose for insurance on a low value bike. They might hesitate to make a claim for fear of what it would do to premiums for the next couple of years. If the economics are such that you would never claim for your own damage then you might not think it worth paying for Comp. That said, if you take comp and then have an accident that's your fault where the other party is going to get paid out, you might as well bang in the claim for own damage too. It won't make things any worse for your future premiums in that situation.

Courtesy Bike
If you're comp then you might get a bike while yours is repaired but you might find this is subject to availability from the repairer. If your bike is stolen or written-off you won't necessarily get any replacement. If an insured third party is at fault you may get a courtesy bike paid for by them no matter what level of cover you have.
You can buy additional cover that gives a courtesy bike for at fault/write-offs/theft etc but this usually has some kind of time limit. Some insurers do throw this in as a part of the deal but it's not standard.
It's worth having the extra cover if your bike is essential transport.

Breakdown
Maybe, but check the wording. Not all these policies are equal and they can be stripped down to reduce cost/maximise profit. I keep it separate purely because it's just easier for me to consider as an individual purchase not tied to anything else, plus covers me over all my vehicles.

Helmet & Leathers
It's not for me. I'll probably replace my helmet every 3 years so it's pretty much a consumable. I could afford to replace my stuff and, if cash was tight, I'd be happy enough to cut about in cheaper gear for a while. If you don't have the cash to do that then, for a fairly nominal sum, you might consider the cover worth having.
It's a massively profitable product. As mentioned, you've got a limit, an excess and a deduction for wear and tear. As a nerdy insurance type, I have a basic objection that it's charged at a very expensive rate when compared to the cost of the own damage element of the bike insurance, so I consider it poor value. I appreciate many people won't think about it like that.
I'm sure it's handy if you're on the wrong side of the odds and I can easily see why EssexDave is a fan. This one's probably down to personal choice and circumstances.

Legal Expenses
There are some decent products around, but more usually this is the insurance equivalent of alchemy. Sell a policy for £15 and make a profit of £30. In most cases all it involves is passing your non-fault claim to an accident management company in return for a nice fee. They should be paying you.
If you have an accident that's not your fault you will not be short of people wanting to handle your claim, put you on a hire bike etc. There are a few smoke and mirrors involved to make it look like you're actually buying something useful but it's generally a waste of time. There are now some circumstances where your eventual payout for an injury claim might be very slightly reduced if you didn't have legal cover, but it's not really worth worrying about.


IMHO, YMMV, etc :)

[chris8886]

thanks very much tam, some very good counter points and some definite food for more thought.

[Littlepeahead]

Chris before getting too hung up on all the extras your main priority is finding a policy that is reasonably priced while taking into account that at any time you could slip into unconsciousness! That might make quite a difference to fully comp.

Add up how much your most expensive kit is as an outfit, your leathers are pretty tatty, your lid is in need of replacing anyway, so if you crashed in those you wouldn't get much. Are you planning on replacing both once you get your licence back?

For the legal cover, I take on board what's been said. If you have a collision on a roundabout like Stuart did the insurance companies seem to want to go 50/50 fault. By having legal cover Stu fought that. Without it he'd have got nothing. Not sure a no win no fee would have taken it on.

[Littlepeahead]

You may find the info below useful. What the insurance company will want to consider is the likelihood of your box being activated. While it stops your heart from failing, you can still become unconscious, and how likely? Well so far once a year, but that's not to say it would ever go off again. And they may want to know about your medication if that has changed in the last year which it will have. Even if you stay with your current insurer make sure you tell them you have lost your licence and are now on meds.

“Under the Equality Act 2010, car insurance companies cannot increase the cost of a policy if a disability or medical condition does not affect the risk of making a claim. They can ask questions, or ask for written information about your medical condition to support your application. They might ask to see a copy of your driving licence or a letter from the DVLA confirming that you are allowed to drive under DVLA regulations."

[hongman]

Is it just me that gets quoted more for tpft than fully comp?

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[Littlepeahead]

Maybe they think Hong that if the bike was FC you must consider it valuable enough to put the stand down before parking it :D

[hongman]

Pretty much walked into that one didn't I!

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[dirtydog]

Is it just me that gets quoted more for tpft than fully comp?

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FC is almost the same as TPFT For me but then FC is only £82 for me

As for the OP question, lots of valid points for and against helmet/legal cover etc. I always get legal cover now as I had an accident a few years ago and it made it so much easier to pass it over to a company that dealt with it all.
Never really thought about helmet and leather cover as my kit has always been relatively cheap, might look into it at next renewal. Sometimes your kit can be covered by your house insurance, I claimed for a new helmet from house contents insurance before.

[Littlepeahead]

Chris's priority will need to be getting cover with a heart condition. While the law says they can't charge him more because of a controlled medical condition, his isn't controlled by medication so that may complicate things even though it shouldn't. My insurance company wanted to increase my premium because I was having an op that meant I couldn't ride for a few months, how not riding my bike because I'm in a cast on my foot makes me more of a risk is beyond me! Surely a bike in the garage isn't going to crash!

[Red Herring]

I think you are crediting your insurance company with enough common sense to actually make a sensible decision, and that is your mistake. They will simply have a flow chart that says: Medical condition = higher premium.

I prefer my version:

Do you have a temporary medical condition, Yes, does it impact on your ability to ride a bike, No = Get out there and enjoy yourself.

or

Do you have a temporary medical condition, Yes, does it impact on your ability to ride a bike, Yes, Are you going to ride your bike, No = put another log on the fire and top up that glass.

There is a third option but if you are stupid enough to ride a bike when you can't do it properly and safely having no insurance will be the least of your worries!

[EssexDave]

FC is almost the same as TPFT For me but then FC is only £82 for me

As for the OP question, lots of valid points for and against helmet/legal cover etc. I always get legal cover now as I had an accident a few years ago and it made it so much easier to pass it over to a company that dealt with it all.
Never really thought about helmet and leather cover as my kit has always been relatively cheap, might look into it at next renewal. Sometimes your kit can be covered by your house insurance, I claimed for a new helmet from house contents insurance before.

Another consideration is that if it's a third party at fault, I suspect you could claim the damage to protective gear from the third party insurers?

[Dicky Ticker]

I could be wrong about this but when I had my heart op I went through a strict medical to get my HGV/LGV back. I had no problem with loaded premiums as far as vehicle insurance was involved. The thing I can't get is travel insurance OR life insurance without exorbitant premiums. If you are certified fit to drive by your consultant you do not have a medical condition that would be an impairment to your driving so there should be no increase in your premiums and if there is shout and scream or change companies I will repeat that I did have a very strict medical and not just self declaration after 6 weeks

[Red Herring]

If you go here:

https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving

you will find a list of medical conditions that may require you to notify DVLA if they affect you. I say "may" because some of them are compulsory, and others you only need to do if "it affects your ability to drive safely".

I would suggest that if you have been required to notify DVLA about the condition then despite my previous flippant remarks you probably ought to be telling your insurance company.

[Littlepeahead]

Chris may not have seen this yet but he has now lost his licence for a 6 month period on three occasions in the last 4 years so is probably on the DVLA Christmas card list he has to contact them so often to relinquish his licence and then get it back again! That's standard for when a defib is activated. And a further month if they have to change the batteries. All very tedious.

[TamSV]

If you go here:

https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving

you will find a list of medical conditions that may require you to notify DVLA if they affect you. I say "may" because some of them are compulsory, and others you only need to do if "it affects your ability to drive safely".

I would suggest that if you have been required to notify DVLA about the condition then despite my previous flippant remarks you probably ought to be telling your insurance company.


+1 to all of the above.

These days, if you've advised DVLA and kept your license with no restriction, then insurance companies shouldn't give you a problem.

Chris's situation sounds a bit more complex.

[Dicky Ticker]

Poor Chris,sounds a bit of a sh1tter.

[Viney]

Right, have just had my insurance renewal through and they are wanting to charge me more than last year (as ever with the old insurance companies). so have stuck my details into a comparison site as usual and immediately have significantly cheaper quotes. however i have a medical condition, so i know i will have to phone whoever i decide to go with (which may end up changing it all anyway), but i'm more wondering what "extras" people see as very much worth having and which ones people don't usually bother with cos it's just not worth it etc. i always go for TPFT insurance too cos my bike just isn't worth insuring fully comp as it's value is probably only about £1200 max.In the 12 years i have owned Doris i have never been more that covered TPF&T. I have had a few accidents against other drivers and won all of them The couple of times that i have bent the bike through lack of talent, i repair the bike myself. parts are very plentiful nowadays and not worth the hike in premium. I currently pay less than £80 for a 10k miles policy, pillion, no security parked in my garden. :)

[L3nny]

Argh, I am tearing my hair out with insurance at the moment. Word of advice, and for more reasons than this, never buy a brand new house on a brand new estate!
Moved a mile down the road to my new house in December, everything else stayed the same, called the insurers to tell them, "no problem Sir, although we don't yet have your house on out postcode database, but as it's only the first half of the postcode we go on, which is the same, so no increase in premium"
Policy is due for renewal, "noooooo, if you want insurance with us now, you have to pay the new, 'it's not on our database so must be a crack wh0re ghetto' supplement, that's an extra £200 please.
So I think, no problem I'll go elsewhere
Wrong! Big problem, most insurers have the same supplement!
The ones that do quote me a sensible figure are exactly the same price for my old and new place, the ones that don't are £100+ cheaper if i use my old address!

[PyroUK]

In the 12 years i have owned Doris i have never been more that covered TPF&T. I have had a few accidents against other drivers and won all of them The couple of times that i have bent the bike through lack of talent, i repair the bike myself. parts are very plentiful nowadays and not worth the hike in premium. I currently pay less than £80 for a 10k miles policy, pillion, no security parked in my garden. :)


Have you told them about all the accidents and costs?

[Viney]

Yup. All non fault accidents. All fully disclosed

[PyroUK]

And still only £80!!! Damn :(

[chris8886]

Pretty much walked into that one didn't I!

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LOL! ;)

Poor Chris,sounds a bit of a sh1tter.

yep, it is a bit of a sh1tter unfortunately :( , but while I still have the sv it really be too much of a problem as it's such a low insurance group. it's when I move onto a supersports 600 or something that I'm going to start worrying a little! lol

[Littlepeahead]

You can't change bikes for good reason.

[chris8886]

You can't change bikes for good reason.



I'll change my bike if I wish thank you!

[Littlepeahead]

Nope, won't work. You'll buy something new, forget what you've bought and forget where you've parked it and that'll be that. :p

[chris8886]

Nope, won't work. You'll buy something new, forget what you've bought and forget where you've parked it and that'll be that. :p



no more so than how much I forget where I've parked my bike now, so I reckon i'll manage ok.

[Matt-EUC]

Nope, won't work. You'll buy something new, forget what you've bought and forget where you've parked it and that'll be that. :p


That's mean...

You're mean...

[Littlepeahead]

That's mean...

You're mean...

That's why he loves me so much :D

[Matt-EUC]

I'm sure the cake helps.

[chris8886]

That's why he loves me so much :D


are you sure?:p

I'm sure the cake helps.

yeh, I spose it does! lol

[Littlepeahead]

And managing your diary like a PA, acting as your chauffeur when you haven't got a licence, getting you into cricket matches free and buying you bottles of those funny tasting beers you like so much every time I get dragged round a specialist shop or micro brewery by Mr LPH. Oh yes, and I'm taking your bike in a van to AR as I've just had confirmation that my photographer can cover it all at work that day.

[chris8886]

And managing your diary like a PA, acting as your chauffeur when you haven't got a licence, getting you into cricket matches free and buying you bottles of those funny tasting beers you like so much every time I get dragged round a specialist shop or micro brewery by Mr LPH. Oh yes, and I'm taking your bike in a van to AR as I've just had confirmation that my photographer can cover it all at work that day.



yeh, ok there's a few good reasons there! however I did think I was organising the van from here n you were meeting me here?

[Littlepeahead]

Nope.

[chris8886]

ok, just to let y'all know, that I have renewed with swinton in the end as they have managed to include the stuff that I wanted on the policy for £108, instead of the 141.90 they were quoting me! :) which I got by just doing a quick "comparethemarket" search and finding other quotes and who they were with etc and naming the cheaper ones (but not the fact that they didn't include the bits I wanted! ;) ). so I'm fairly pleased with myself, thank you to all those who input into this, all helpful ideas for me to think about. thanks you.

[Littlepeahead]

You haven't forgotten you sold the bike 3 weeks ago to pay the third installment of your sex change have you?

[Red Herring]

The 3rd installment? Which bit is that? He can still ride a bike so it couldn't have been an important part......

[chris8886]

You haven't forgotten you sold the bike 3 weeks ago to pay the third installment of your sex change have you?



no it's still there in the garage.

The 3rd installment? Which bit is that? He can still ride a bike so it couldn't have been an important part......



oi, sod off! :smt098:p