View Full Version : Car hit my bike over - whilst parked in a M/C only bay!
So I come out from a hospital appointment to find the police gathered around the area where I had parked my bike this morning...
Some tool of a cage driver has decided to try and get his car into a space which wasn't there and has encroached into the motorcycle only parking bay. Bike went down on the left side, hitting a scooter parked next to it.
An independent witness saw the whole thing and stopped a passing police car. Apparently the car driver has hit my bike, got out and picked it up, then left his car where it was (half in the M/C bay) and walked off! No note, Nothing.
Luckily I've got the witness' details and the police got me the car drivers details so a claim through my insurance should be relatively straight forward I hope...
Damage is smashed front db screen, Snapped left mirror, hole in fuel tank cover (possible damage to tank underneath), scuffed rear fairing, scuffed seat cowl. Soooooo annoying!!!
Anyway, rant over. Here's some pics of the damage. I'm gutted because I was just about happy with how I had the bike.
Looks like the side stand of the scoot did the damage to the fuel tank...
http://i59.tinypic.com/2rwqaop.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/5127v9.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/znt2ps.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/2h7zy4x.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/213j4lw.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/21nir7o.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/3148b2a.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/ilkbp0.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/1z3a4aa.jpg
Oh, it gets better too! The police said they couldn't even issue a parking ticket to this c0ck jockey! WTF?
SUPERSTARDJ01
10-03-14, 02:06 PM
Hopefully it wont be a right off.
carelesschucca
10-03-14, 03:07 PM
What a PITA!
Hope you get it all sorted.
Cheers guys. Wheels are in motion with the insurance company. They're giving me a cbr600S as a courtesy bike and are collecting my bike to go to the approved honda dealer. Can't fault Bennetts so far but it's obviously very early days. If anyone has any advice as to how to handle the insurance situation I'd be most grateful.
SUPERSTARDJ01
10-03-14, 04:31 PM
Just be honest and concise, pics etc help, which you have and the statement, not too much to do in this case, hopefully they wont push for 50/50.
ChrisCurvyS
10-03-14, 04:40 PM
Hope you get it sorted without too much hassle. WFT was he thinking? Pick the damaged bike up as though nothing happened but then leave his car there?
So what was the reason for the police not being able to issue a ticket for his parking?
Hope you get it sorted without too much hassle. WFT was he thinking? Pick the damaged bike up as though nothing happened but then leave his car there?
So what was the reason for the police not being able to issue a ticket for his parking?
Yeah it sure us a weird one. Most would do the decent thing and stick around/leave a note. A minority would clear off altogether but what he did was rather odd.
Police didn't explain why they couldn't give him a parking ticket but the impression I got was that they just didn't have the power to issue one. They said a passing traffic warden could issue one but Sod's law, they're only around when you don't want one.
Fallout
10-03-14, 05:06 PM
In case it makes you feel any better, there is a chance since you're near a hospital that said pleb was going to visit someone very ill in hospital and had bigger fish to fry. I know if a loved one was dying I wouldn't give a ****. Also perhaps they didn't have a pen and paper (I don't in my car), so there's no way I could possibly leave a note. I also would've picked the bike up rather than leaving it lying there, and perhaps they stayed in the bay partly because they didn't to get to hospital and partly so they weren't doing a runner so you could get their details.
All speculation, and it doesn't make up for you getting shafted (sorry dude!), but perhaps there is a reasonable explanation and they're not just an utter **** .... though clearly there are a ****e driver!
In case it makes you feel any better, there is a chance since you're near a hospital that said pleb was going to visit someone very ill in hospital and had bigger fish to fry. I know if a loved one was dying I wouldn't give a ****. Also perhaps they didn't have a pen and paper (I don't in my car), so there's no way I could possibly leave a note. I also would've picked the bike up rather than leaving it lying there, and perhaps they stayed in the bay partly because they didn't to get to hospital and partly so they weren't doing a runner so you could get their details.
All speculation, and it doesn't make up for you getting shafted (sorry dude!), but perhaps there is a reasonable explanation and they're not just an utter **** .... though clearly there are a ****e driver!
Yeah fair comment. In fact a similar scenario had crossed my mind but to be honest I doubt it cause it was outside the city eye hospital. I don't know of to many life threatening eye conditions.
Having said that, maybe he was attending the eye hospital himself? Would explain a lot...
Fallout
10-03-14, 05:33 PM
haha. Yeah, I think your explanation is more plausible, and probably why they didn't see how much damaged they'd caused!
I'd have taken a $hit on his windscreen & pi$$ed in his back box, just for the inconvenience they had caused me.
Hate inconsiderate people like this. To pick it up he would have seen the damage. To then walk off is ridiculous and a blatantly disregard. Why isn't this a Police case of leaving the scene of an accident?! (sorry if it is and I've glossed over it)
The police said that as nobody was injured it was a matter for the insurance companies. Tbh they were sympathetic but stopped short of making it a police matter.
I was pretty fired up at the time. The thing that got to me the most was why the hell he was trying to park there in the first place? There just wasn't space for a car, end of. In the pics you can see that after he's hit my bike, he's pulled as far forward as possible right up to the bumper of the car in front of him. He's still a good 2 feet inside the motorcycle bay and is blocking in the other car. Total amoeba.
Nobbylad
10-03-14, 07:36 PM
Just a word of warning...check with Bennetts re: the hire bike. If for some reason you're unable to recover costs for the damage etc, you could be liable for the bike hire.
Just a word of warning...check with Bennetts re: the hire bike. If for some reason you're unable to recover costs for the damage etc, you could be liable for the bike hire.
Good point. Thanks!
I'll be amazed if the car driver isn't held 100% liable but nothing's ever as simple as it should be is it?
squirrel_hunter
10-03-14, 08:50 PM
Having said that, maybe he was attending the eye hospital himself? Would explain a lot...
That's what I was thinking. Bad times dude. But its not to bad to repair, just make sure you have a say in who repairs it as there are a couple of places down there I wouldn't recommend.
Cheers Steve, good advice.
Absolutely gutted for you. Hopefully it goes in your favor and you can get it back to how it was.
The police said that as nobody was injured it was a matter for the insurance companies. Tbh they were sympathetic but stopped short of making it a police matter.
They should have reported it. Damaged has been caused and you have been unable to exchange details AND you have a 3rd party witness and the driver is not there.
Driver does have 24 hours to report to his local station (yeh right)
Parking will be a council issue not Police.
andrewsmith
11-03-14, 07:29 AM
Parking will be a council issue not Police.
It's annoying as the police around here would love to have the power, as it would be a field day
written with a brio
Just a word of warning...check with Bennetts re: the hire bike. If for some reason you're unable to recover costs for the damage etc, you could be liable for the bike hire.
Rang Bennetts this morning. They said I won't be liable for the cost if the hire bike as they have assessed the circumstances surrounding the claim and feel the chances of recovering the costs from the third party are very good. As such they have given me the hire bike at risk to themselves in the event of failing to settle 100% in my favour.
I'm only liable for the £500 pound excess on the hire bikes insurance policy should I damage it or it gets stolen whilst I have it.
Worth finding out about though.
Absolutely gutted for you. Hopefully it goes in your favor and you can get it back to how it was.
Thanks :)
Grant66
11-03-14, 12:37 PM
Sorry to hear about this. Gutted for you.
I'm a bit confused as to why there is a doubt as to the claim not being 100% in your favour. Stationary vehicle parked legally gets reversed into by car parking Illegally who then leaves the scene of the accident without leaving details or reporting. With independent witness and police report.
Unless I've missed something its as clear cut as they come.
yorkie_chris
11-03-14, 12:55 PM
Curious to know what happened when he got back to the car as to whether he left scene or what
Sorry to hear about this. Gutted for you.
I'm a bit confused as to why there is a doubt as to the claim not being 100% in your favour. Stationary vehicle parked legally gets reversed into by car parking Illegally who then leaves the scene of the accident without leaving details or reporting. With independent witness and police report.
Unless I've missed something its as clear cut as they come.
Cheers mate.
It seems like a straight forward case but until I hear the third party has admitted liability I won't be counting my chickens.
Curious to know what happened when he got back to the car as to whether he left scene or what
I waited around for about half an hour but he was a no show. I could have been there all day long so I decided to get the bike home and call my insurance company to set the wheels in motion. I don't think the cops were planning to wait around for him either.
Red Herring
11-03-14, 03:10 PM
So am I right in thinking neither you or the police actually spoke to the car driver at the scene? I sure hope the police haven't just given you the registered keepers details and left it at that....
So am I right in thinking neither you or the police actually spoke to the car driver at the scene? I sure hope the police haven't just given you the registered keepers details and left it at that....
Well yes, that pretty much sums it up as far as I know. I left the scene after a little while and it appeared the police were getting ready to do the same. The driver still hadn't returned to the scene so unless the police stayed put (which I don't think they did) my guess would be the driver wasn't spoken to by anyone at the scene.
Have the police officers failed in their duties here? They led me to believe that as nobody was injured they wouldn't be getting involved and it was a matter for the insurance companies.
Red Herring
11-03-14, 04:03 PM
It will be a matter for the insurance companies once you have sorted out who the driver was, and providing they have insurance. I wouldn't want to suggest the officers have done anything wrong without knowing a bit more about what information they have and what they are doing, but if any of mine simply gave you the keeper details without any other enquiries I'd be pretty disappointed with them.... The very least they should be doing is visiting them, checking they still actually own the vehicle, obtaining an account of what happened and an explanation as to why they weren't present at the scene to exchange details. If they haven't done that it's going to get awfully complicated if you or your insurance company don't hear back from him, or he denies responsibility.
The officers ascertained that the car had insurance and gave me an insurer and policy number. They stopped short of giving me his name and address etc for obvious reasons. To my knowledge that was it.
Red Herring
11-03-14, 04:09 PM
My car has insurance, that doesn't make me responsible if a mate down the pub "borrows" it to run an errand and hits something. The claim is against the driver, not the vehicle. Like I say I don't want to alarm you but you would not believe the BS we sometimes get fed in circumstances like this. Have you got the witness details?
I hear what you're saying. Hopefully the driver will do the right thing and own up but I won't hold my breath. I doubt he realises the weight of evidence against him so he may well try to deny all knowledge. Who knows.
Yeah got a name, address and phone number for the witness. Obviously passed these details on to the insurance company.
yorkie_chris
11-03-14, 04:19 PM
My car has insurance, that doesn't make me responsible if a mate down the pub "borrows" it to run an errand and hits something. The claim is against the driver, not the vehicle. Like I say I don't want to alarm you but you would not believe the BS we sometimes get fed in circumstances like this. Have you got the witness details?
Or if some cnut gets some show plates with your reg...
Is it not a criminal offence if the driver does not report the damage within 24 hours of the incident?
Red Herring
11-03-14, 04:28 PM
If I was you I would be in touch with those police officers and asking them to investigate the incident with regard to Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act. Basically there is an obligation on the driver of the car to exchange details at the scene or report it to the police as soon as practicable, and in any case within 24 hours. It is simply not acceptable for them to give you details of the cars insurance without them making an effort to establish who the driver was. Just because they may not prosecute him for the actual crash doesn't absolve him of his responsibility to report the incident. If he has reported it, or they have spoken to him and established he was the driver, then you are entitled to his details.
Alternatively let things be and hope for the best. If you do then it will be much more complicated to recover the situation later if it goes pear shaped.
If I was you I would be in touch with those police officers and asking them to investigate the incident with regard to Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act. Basically there is an obligation on the driver of the car to exchange details at the scene or report it to the police as soon as practicable, and in any case within 24 hours. It is simply not acceptable for them to give you details of the cars insurance without them making an effort to establish who the driver was. Just because they may not prosecute him for the actual crash doesn't absolve him of his responsibility to report the incident. If he has reported it, or they have spoken to him and established he was the driver, then you are entitled to his details.
Alternatively let things be and hope for the best. If you do then it will be much more complicated to recover the situation later if it goes pear shaped.
Thanks for the advice.
I don't have the officers numbers so what can I do? In hindsight I should have noted the numbers on their shoulders but they convinced me by their attitude towards the whole thing that it wasn't necessary.
Thanks for the advice.
I don't have the officers numbers so what can I do? In hindsight I should have noted the numbers on their shoulders but they convinced me by their attitude towards the whole thing that it wasn't necessary.
Are their numbers on any of the photo's you took?
Are there numbers on any of the photo's you took?
Only a car reg...
Red Herring
11-03-14, 04:39 PM
Dial 101 and ask to speak to a control room supervisor. There should be a CAD on the incident as the officers would have had to carry out PNC checks etc. You will need to be able to give the operator the time and location of the incident. If for some reason the officers didn't call it in (I think you said they were flagged down rather than sent to it) then you can ask them to carry out a TE (Transaction enquiry) check against the cars registration number on the PNC (Police National Computer) and this will find the officers number as it leaves an audit trail. Don't be fobbed off. If they try and tell you they can't help tell them you want to make an official complaint and this they will have to log. It will go to an Inspector/Sergeant to sort out and they will get to the bottom of it for you.
Biker Biggles
11-03-14, 04:40 PM
Did the officer give you a bit of paper with the insurance details?If so there may be a cad number or shoulder number on there.Id ask at the local police station for details of the incident and who the officers were if you are in any doubt.Does the shoulder number show up in any of the pics you took?
Biker Biggles
11-03-14, 04:41 PM
Did the officer give you a bit of paper with the insurance details?If so there may be a cad number or shoulder number on there.Id ask at the local police station for details of the incident and who the officers were if you are in any doubt.Does the shoulder number show up in any of the pics you took?
Blimey too slow:eek:
Dial 101 and ask to speak to a control room supervisor. There should be a CAD on the incident as the officers would have had to carry out PNC checks etc. You will need to be able to give the operator the time and location of the incident. If for some reason the officers didn't call it in (I think you said they were flagged down rather than sent to it) then you can ask them to carry out a TE (Transaction enquiry) check against the cars registration number on the PNC (Police National Computer) and this will find the officers number as it leaves an audit trail. Don't be fobbed off. If they try and tell you they can't help tell them you want to make an official complaint and this they will have to log. It will go to an Inspector/Sergeant to sort out and they will get to the bottom of it for you.
Thanks so much! I'd have never known any of that. Fantastic advice and an example if why this forum is ace!
Red Herring
11-03-14, 04:42 PM
If that's the registration number of the police car in the first photo the Sergeant will be able to identify the officers from that as well.
If that's the registration number of the police car in the first photo the Sergeant will be able to identify the officers from that as well.
It is indeed. Thanks
If he has reported it, or they have spoken to him and established he was the driver, then you are entitled to his details
When you say his details, are we talking name and address etc?
Grant66
11-03-14, 05:06 PM
Is it not a criminal offense if the driver does not report the damage within 24 hours of the incident?
Would appear to be:
https://www.gov.uk/highway-code-penalties/penalty-table
Red Herring
11-03-14, 05:14 PM
When you say his details, are we talking name and address etc?
Yes, you are entitled to the drivers name and address, and also the owners if not the same person. Ironically you are not entitled to his insurance details unless injury was caused, which it clearly wasn't.
The officers had no more right to give you the insurance details off the PNC than they had to give you the keepers details (which they didn't). They can only give you the driver and owner details after they have established who that is, and they don't appear to have done that yet. I'm not trying to get them into trouble, trust me I know the pressure they are under to get things done, however if they have just left this with you then that isn't acceptable.
I think I'll get onto Bennetts tomorrow morning and find out what the third party are saying. If he's admitting full liability then I may be able to avoid a whole load of hassle. If he decides to play games then I'll pursue the advice you've kindly given me.
Red Herring
11-03-14, 05:30 PM
I'd be impressed if they have anything to tell you. They will have to write to DVLA to get the keeper details so that they can then then write to him asking him to pay up.... It may be that the insurance industry can cut a few corners between themselves but his insurance company are not going to admit any kind of liability until they have written to their policyholder and asked him to confirm he was involved (see the post by YC) and all this is going to take some time, weeks rather than days.
Ok I see, makes sense now you say it. Thanks
If I was you I would be in touch with those police officers and asking them to investigate the incident with regard to Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act. Basically there is an obligation on the driver of the car to exchange details at the scene or report it to the police as soon as practicable, and in any case within 24 hours. It is simply not acceptable for them to give you details of the cars insurance without them making an effort to establish who the driver was. Just because they may not prosecute him for the actual crash doesn't absolve him of his responsibility to report the incident. If he has reported it, or they have spoken to him and established he was the driver, then you are entitled to his details.
RH.
So a quick call to 101 has given me the name and collar number of one of the officers who attended. He was the one who logged the check against the third parties car registration on the PNC. The logged entry has no other details on the incident such as driver name or whether he was identified/spoken to etc. so it looks like the officers haven't managed to wait around and speak to the driver after all.
I also asked 101 if the owner/driver of the third party car had reported the incident and there was no record of that either (we're now 48 hours after the incident) so it would appear that the driver has failed in his obligation to report the accident/damage within 24 hours.
I've requested for the officer who attended to call me later today when he comes on shift and I plan to ask him if he waited at the scene? if he saw/spoke to the driver? what are the drivers details (name & address)? if he will be investigating under section 170 of the road traffic act?
Am I getting this right? I really don't want to come unstuck on this.
I've passed on what I've got from the call to 101 to my insurance company to add a bit of weight to my claim.
Thanks for the help.
Dkid,
I am an insurance claims handler. From what you have said, I don't think that you need to concern yourself. Your insurer will be able to identify the TP insurer from the registration number and from what you said, it appears to be an open and shut case. They should settle your claim and they will then pursue the TP insurer to recover the cost of repairing your vehicle and paying for bike hire. They will not want to delay settling as the bike hire will be costing them. If the TP is not insured, that is their problem, not yours. Apart from the excess that you will have to pay if your insurers can't recover their outlay.
Dkid,
I am an insurance claims handler. From what you have said, I don't think that you need to concern yourself. Your insurer will be able to identify the TP insurer from the registration number and from what you said, it appears to be an open and shut case. They should settle your claim and they will then pursue the TP insurer to recover the cost of repairing your vehicle and paying for bike hire. They will not want to delay settling as the bike hire will be costing them. If the TP is not insured, that is their problem, not yours. Apart from the excess that you will have to pay if your insurers can't recover their outlay.
Thanks mate, that's reassuring to hear!
You'd be a good person to ask for some advice on a slightly different subject that's got me slightly worried.
I've recently purchased one or two aftermarket bits, nothing major but I've not yet gotten around to declaring them as modifications on my policy. My aftermarket exhaust etc is all declared. Are the TP insurance company likely to want to trip me up on this or given the circumstances of the accident will they be irrelevant?
Btw, it's worth mentioning that none of the damaged parts are arftermarket bits. All parts requiring repair/replacement are oem honda parts that were standard on the bike.
Cheers
aesmith
12-03-14, 03:05 PM
I've recently purchased one or two aftermarket bits, nothing major but I've not yet gotten around to declaring them as modifications on my policy. My aftermarket exhaust etc is all declared. Are the TP insurance company likely to want to trip me up on this or given the circumstances of the accident will they be irrelevant?
They should be irrelevant to the third party in any case, after all they'd still be liable even if you had no insurance at all. Unless they want to claim that your aftermarket part caused the accident!
When I claimed against a 3rd party for mine they didn't care about the mods that I hadn't gotten round to declaring like my exhaust. Don't know if that's the norm though.
My plan was to add them to my policy at renewal when it's due come May tbh.
I'm sure we all buy shiny things for our bikes and rush home to fit them. I doubt most of us are in such a hurry to get on the phone to out insurers though. It's one of those things you keep meaning to get around to...
Yeah, and to be honest in the case of exhausts, for the pointy anyway, most aftermarkets are a lot cheaper than a stock one. Unless maybe you have a swish full race system or something.
Nah, just a yoshimura slip on but it's still £500
hindle8907
12-03-14, 04:58 PM
I doubt it cause it was outside the city eye hospital. I don't know of to many life threatening eye conditions.
Having said that, maybe he was attending the eye hospital himself? Would explain a lot...
hahah that made me laugh , unlucky dude hope you get sorted.
Dkid,
every insurer has their own rules on declaring after market parts.
Red Herring
12-03-14, 05:02 PM
Dkid,
I am an insurance claims handler. From what you have said, I don't think that you need to concern yourself. Your insurer will be able to identify the TP insurer from the registration number and from what you said, it appears to be an open and shut case. They should settle your claim and they will then pursue the TP insurer to recover the cost of repairing your vehicle and paying for bike hire. They will not want to delay settling as the bike hire will be costing them. If the TP is not insured, that is their problem, not yours. Apart from the excess that you will have to pay if your insurers can't recover their outlay.
So if in three weeks time your client comes back to you and says he knows nothing about the incident, he was away on holiday at the time so someone must have used his car without his permission, you would just pay out would you? It's all very well saying it's for Dkid insurance company to pursue the claim against the third party but in the meantime he has had to make a claim on the comprehensive part of his policy (assuming he has it) which will in turn potentially impact on his claim history... or won't it?
I do indeed have fully comp...
Also, I just got off the phone with the officer who was in attendance. He and his colleague did not ascertain the identity of the driver as they didn't wait around any longer after I left the scene.
He told me that he couldn't wait around all day (fair enough I suppose) and that it wasn't even his patch (guess he was just passing through?). Reckons I need to go into a station and have a log of the incident created stating that the driver failed in his obligations under section 170. Then it will be dealt with by someone who does cover that specific area. Seems long winded to me but I don't have the knowledge to argue the toss with him over the phone.
*edit. Officer also told me he could get me the drivers name but not his address.
You need to do this, people who don't report an accident are unlikely to be fully co-operative when it comes to a claim against them...
You need to do this, people who don't report an accident are unlikely to be fully co-operative when it comes to a claim against them...
Yeah I plan to. PITA but I might regret it if I don't.
Red Herring
12-03-14, 05:45 PM
He's fobbed you off to a certain extent. Obviously different forces will have different policies and ways of doing things and I do appreciate he may have been off his patch so to speak, however the very minimum he should have done is taken everybody's details, created an accident report and forwarded it to a local officer (via whatever admin system they have) for them to follow up with the necessary enquiries. Failing that he should have arranged for a local officer to attend the scene and take the job on. The bottom line is he was having an offence reported to him, all the evidence of the offence, including the witnesses, was there in front of him, and he has done nothing about it.
This is not about how the incident happened. We all make mistakes when driving and the guy knocking your bike over could be put down to a minor inattention or "accident" for which you may or may not expect him to be prosecuted. This is all about having caused some quite considerable damage the driver has made no attempt to comply with the legal requirements upon him to report the matter, either to the other person involved or the police. The officer doesn't have an option of using discretion on that one, especially when by doing so he seriously disadvantages the victim (you).
Let me put it another way, if you had an argument with your neighbour and he threw a brick through your front window you wouldn't expect the police to come round, look at the damage, and say "Oh well, you can claim on your insurance" would you?
He's fobbed you off to a certain extent. Obviously different forces will have different policies and ways of doing things and I do appreciate he may have been off his patch so to speak, however the very minimum he should have done is taken everybody's details, created an accident report and forwarded it to a local officer (via whatever admin system they have) for them to follow up with the necessary enquiries. Failing that he should have arranged for a local officer to attend the scene and take the job on. The bottom line is he was having an offence reported to him, all the evidence of the offence, including the witnesses, was there in front of him, and he has done nothing about it.
This is not about how the incident happened. We all make mistakes when driving and the guy knocking your bike over could be put down to a minor inattention or "accident" for which you may or may not expect him to be prosecuted. This is all about having caused some quite considerable damage the driver has made no attempt to comply with the legal requirements upon him to report the matter, either to the other person involved or the police. The officer doesn't have an option of using discretion on that one, especially when by doing so he seriously disadvantages the victim (you).
Let me put it another way, if you had an argument with your neighbour and he threw a brick through your front window you wouldn't expect the police to come round, look at the damage, and say "Oh well, you can claim on your insurance" would you?
I hear you RH and what you say makes perfect sense. I only wish I could respond to the officer in the same way when speaking directly to him. Unfortunately I don't have the depth of knowledge on this subject that you do.
I really appreciate all the advice and will do my best to push for the appropriate level of action to be taken by the police in respect to what they can and should have done. Ultimately I think going into a local station and reporting the incident may be the best strategy for me as at least then there will be a logged record of it (which at present there isn't) and hopefully I can get a reference number and the right person will be obliged to follow it up. It will also hopefully highlight what the attending officer did right/wrong.
I can pass along info already gleaned from the call to 101 such as the name & collar number of the attending officer and the PNC log report number created when he ran the check on the car involved.
Red Herring
12-03-14, 06:26 PM
I can only offer you advice gained from more years than I care to remember trying to sort these things out. The sooner the owner of the car is confronted by an officer asking him for his side of things the more ready he will be to accept responsibility (or have his fortune read to him) and this in turn will make your entire claim process a whole lot easier. His Insurance company need the facts, and they will want them from him (or at least his version of events) before they admit any kind of liability and settle with you (via your insurance company if necessary).
The more you tell me about the officer that attended the less impressed I am. Can give you insurance details but not the keepers? Now he can tell you a name but not an address? What planet is this guy from! He isn't allowed under data protection to give you any information that he has obtained from the PNC - period! He is allowed to access and act on that information, which should lead him (or another officer) to knocking on the guys door. Having then confirmed that the person in front of him is the owner and/or driver of the vehicle he can pass his details to you, as you are legally entitled to that information under Sect 170 RTA. (he is in effect acting as an agent for the driver thus ensuring he meets his obligations under the legislation).
Ring the officer back, tell him to read what I have written on here and see if he wants to argue then......:D
The Police can release insurance details because that is not personal to an individual. They are not allowed to release personal information (driver name and address) without the drivers permission due to the Data Protection Act. Insurance companies can make a request to the police if there is a claim but individuals can't.
As a claims handler, I never involve the police in these cases. The police are not interested as there is no criminality. It is all sorted between the two insurance companies. From the information provided, they may raise a CAD which is a one or two sentence report that they attended, but once they decide that it is a civil matter, they have no interest and no police report will be written.
Red Herring
12-03-14, 10:30 PM
Insurance companies ask the police for copies of crash reports when they are dealing with claims. These reports contain details of the drivers and owners of the vehicle involved, and generally their insurance details. The information is only put on the reports after it has been confirmed that it is correct, and you do not do this by lifting the information directly of the PNC. As I previously explained the data held on the PNC is used to direct the investigation, but it is obviously continually subject to change and cannot therefore be relied upon to be correct. I imagine you wouldn't be to happy if an officer knocked on your door and told you that he had given your details to someone because the vehicle you sold last week had just been involved in a crash and he's told the driver to claim against you now would you?
Saying the police are not interested because there isn't any criminality is I'm sorry quite daft. You do under the concept of Sect 170 don't you?
The Police can release insurance details because that is not personal to an individual. They are not allowed to release personal information (driver name and address) without the drivers permission due to the Data Protection Act. Insurance companies can make a request to the police if there is a claim but individuals can't.
As a claims handler, I never involve the police in these cases. The police are not interested as there is no criminality. It is all sorted between the two insurance companies. From the information provided, they may raise a CAD which is a one or two sentence report that they attended, but once they decide that it is a civil matter, they have no interest and no police report will be written.
Really? It might differ between forces but we get loads more than that if the police have attended. Need to pay for it and wait weeks and you can't decipher most of it when you get it...but it's more than a couple of lines :)
Anyway, I think it's worth pushing the police a little here.
The car insurers are going to write to their policyholder. He might own up, in which case, all is well. He might ignore the letter and hopes it goes away or he might deny all knowledge. The driver has already proven to be of a ****ish disposition so either of the latter options are a possibility. In that case, his insurers will take a view based on the evidence presented to them. They'll either pay it or they won't.
If the driver's got a decent story, and his insurers don't pay, then is anyone going to litigate for what are pretty minor costs? If they do, will the witness want to get involved at that point? His outrage has already disappeared by now and he's got other things to do in his life.
The OP has got Comp cover so, if it gets too difficult, the accident management guys will recover most of their outlay by banging the repairs through his own insurance and then they'll move onto the next, easier, job.
If the driver is going to try and walk away from this then a suitably motivated police officer may be able to use their skills to persuade him otherwise. As has been stated, this is not just a civil matter - an offence has been committed - so the police should be taking some further interest.
I wouldn't want to worry the OP too much. This is a nailed on dead cert of a claim. It's just that I've seen lots of those be unsuccessful so it's worth using all the means at your disposal to get a fair resolution as quickly as possible.
Red Herring is bang on the money IMO.
While your there reporting the accident at the station you might as well put a complaint in against the officer.
SvNewbie
12-03-14, 11:40 PM
The Police can release insurance details because that is not personal to an individual. They are not allowed to release personal information (driver name and address) without the drivers permission due to the Data Protection Act. Insurance companies can make a request to the police if there is a claim but individuals can't.
Anyone with a good reason can request the owners details from the DVLA. I think this costs in the region of £5.
https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla
So this morning I went to my local police station and requested that an official entry be logged onto their system detailing the accident and the circumstances surrounding it.
The guy behind the front desk asked me all about the incident and logged a 'collision tracker' on the database and gave me the corresponding number to pass onto my insurance. He reckoned that the owner of the car would be sent a letter asking who was driving at the time of the incident. If the driver is honest and forthcoming that'll be the end of it. If he ignores the letter it may warrant further investigation.
Basically if the driver holds his hands up and co operates with the insurance process honestly, the police won't take any further action. If he decides to play silly games then the police will be involved. Hopefully that will be enough to encourage him to do the right thing.
Interesting...
Sounds like they will be sending something similar to what I got when caught speeding to confirm the driver.
If he ignores it I think there is a separate offence for that as well as the failure to report!
The guy at the station (civilian I think) mentioned the possibility of going after him for leaving the scene...
Dkid,
All the above is all very well, but it shouldn't affect your claim with your insurance company apart from the fact that if your insurers cannot recover their outlay, you will have to pay your excess. The police could prosecute for leaving the scene without reporting it to the police, but that is highly unlikely given the circumstances and shouldn't affect your insurance claim. Your insurance is a civil matter; leaving the scene is a criminal matter.
But having all the additional evidence and weight from the police etc would be more in his favour.
So he doesn't have to pay his excess or have his ncd reduced etc.
The two do not appear to be mutually exclusive in this instance.
Biker Biggles
13-03-14, 02:45 PM
Dkid,
All the above is all very well, but it shouldn't affect your claim with your insurance company apart from the fact that if your insurers cannot recover their outlay, you will have to pay your excess. The police could prosecute for leaving the scene without reporting it to the police, but that is highly unlikely given the circumstances and shouldn't affect your insurance claim. Your insurance is a civil matter; leaving the scene is a criminal matter.
I think you are missing the point.Yes the insurance co will cover the damage as he is FComp,but Im sure he does not want to make a claim which will cost him his NCD,cost him his excess,and result in next years premium going up on top of that because he has been involved in a claim that left his insurer out of pocket.What he wants is for the other drivers insurance to cover all of that,and therefore he needs to get the other driver to admit what happened.He might need police assistance to achieve that.
I think you are missing the point.Yes the insurance co will cover the damage as he is FComp,but Im sure he does not want to make a claim which will cost him his NCD,cost him his excess,and result in next years premium going up on top of that because he has been involved in a claim that left his insurer out of pocket.What he wants is for the other drivers insurance to cover all of that,and therefore he needs to get the other driver to admit what happened.He might need police assistance to achieve that.
Spot on BB
Well Bennetts dropped this off yesterday. Not very exciting but good enough for now. ..
http://i57.tinypic.com/f6y9z.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/fk9v12.jpg
That the courtesy bike? Looks pretty smart!
That the courtesy bike? Looks pretty smart!
Yeah. Took it out for a quick 40 mile jaunt over the mendips this morning. It's comfy and easy to ride but has zero fun factor about it. Still, every day that I have this the third party will be getting billed so hopefully they'll be more inclined to settle quickly.
Here's hoping!
Oh and also, i just remembered from my very first claim, and possibly someone can say if this was correct, my insurers paid out on my behalf without even contacting me. So maybe his will too.
Here's hoping!
Oh and also, i just remembered from my very first claim, and possibly someone can say if this was correct, my insurers paid out on my behalf without even contacting me. So maybe his will too.
So someone was claiming against you and your insurance didn't give you a chance to contest the claim?
Yeah! Reversed in to someone as they were pulling in to a space. Didn't look bad so I said price it up and let me know and I would settle it. Didn't hear from her so thought she took pity on me as I had just started driving. Got to renewal and my premium went through the roof. When I called them they told me she claimed and they paid out £403. £403 claim bumped my premium by £1500 with them, con artists!
But yeah they never contacted me to discuss it so I didn't know the claim had been made.
Wow I'm astonished they just took her word for it!
Quick update to this thread and it's positive news!
After a couple of weeks of wrangling between my insurance company and the third parties insurance company a cheque is now on its way to me for the full amount to cover the repairs to my bike :)
It's taken so long to get to this point as the third party tried denying any involvement in the damage done to my bike. He claimed he arrived at the scene to find a bike on its side and he was just being a "Good Samaritan" by picking it up for me! Pfft.
So my insurance then forwarded a witness statement along with photos showing the TP car squeezed into a M/C parking bay and hey presto a cheque is in the post.
The TP obviously had no idea he'd been seen or that there were pictures. He tried pulling a fast one and got caught out, luckily for me otherwise I may well have had to claim on my own policy and lose my NCD.
Hoping it won't be too long now before the RR is back tucked up in her own garage :D
Grant66
15-04-14, 08:35 AM
That's good news. 8-)
Isn't there a law against lying on insurance forms? There is for claims, does the same law not cover the defence?
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
That's good news. 8-)
Isn't there a law against lying on insurance forms? There is for claims, does the same law not cover the defence?
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
Tbh I get the impression the TP insurance company have looked at the evidence against their client and decided they're on a hiding to nothing. I doubt he's admitted anything to them.
My ins co were saying that if the dispute went on much longer they'd let a court decide the outcome. This, combined with the fact the TP co were being invoiced for the loan bike daily probably tipped the scales in my favour.
Hard to prove he's lied if you're his ins co I'd have thought. They just seem to have weighed up the situation and cut their losses and settled now before it gets even more expensive for them.
Wow I'm astonished they just took her word for it!
Just saw this reply! Yeah I know shocking service there from LV.
Great news on getting the check through though!
Oh and possibly, your insurance company could of they can be rrrrs'd attempt to lay charges of fraud. Technically if it could be proven he has offended under s2 & 3 of the fraud act. He has misrepresented the facts to his insurer and he has failed to disclose material facts to his insurer. Both of which exposed another (you) to the risk of loss.
The great thing about the fraud act is that he is guilty of the offence even if unsuccessful.
But your insurers will need to bothered to try and investigate and build a strong enough case to present to the police.
If you are THAT bothered by it you could go for a civil prosecution, the burden of proof is lower, but if you lose you will have to pay your costs etc.
I would say that on balance you are in the best possible situation. You're getting paid and it's not on your policy. Take the money and run as they say!
Yeah I'm just happy I'm getting my bike repaired at no cost to myself.
The TP is going to have increased premiums as a result of this so hopefully he'll think twice before parking like a to$$er next time.
Red Herring
15-04-14, 08:48 PM
Nice result mate, really pleased for you. I love it when low life get caught out and bought to book. Still think he should have been stuck on as well though.
Nice result mate, really pleased for you. I love it when low life get caught out and bought to book. Still think he should have been stuck on as well though.
Cheers for all the advice RH, it was invaluable!
The collision tracker is logged with the police so what they'll do is up to them I guess. I'm just pleased the bike will be back looking good as new ASAP :)
DJFridge
15-04-14, 09:25 PM
Yeah I'm just happy I'm getting my bike repaired at no cost to myself.
The TP is going to have increased premiums as a result of this so hopefully he'll think twice before parking like a to$$er next time.
It might affect yours too. When you get a quote, one of the questions asked is always, "Have you had any sort of accident, regardless of whether a claim was made?" If it wasn't going to influence the price of your insurance, why ask?
ChrisCurvyS
15-04-14, 09:36 PM
It might affect yours too. When you get a quote, one of the questions asked is always, "Have you had any sort of accident, regardless of whether a claim was made?" If it wasn't going to influence the price of your insurance, why ask?
True but having just been through the process myself after a no-fault crash, i got quotes on a Yamaha Fazer 1000 from £130 fully comp - about a fiver more than i was paying for the SV with half the power. So it can't count for that much.
By avoiding a claim through my policy and going direct to the third parties insurance company, I hope I have minimised the effect on my future premiums. Don't think there was a better course of action unless the TP had offered to pay cash without involving the insurance but that was never an option here.
yorkie_chris
15-04-14, 09:52 PM
It might affect yours too. When you get a quote, one of the questions asked is always, "Have you had any sort of accident, regardless of whether a claim was made?" If it wasn't going to influence the price of your insurance, why ask?
and who the fook is going to admit to an accident where no claim was made?
"Errr would you like them in chronological order, pain order or ascending order of rearrangement of road furniture..."
:mrgreen:
Red Herring
15-04-14, 10:32 PM
You think that's bad but there was a time when they tried to make us declare all our work "incidents" to our private insurance companies. I'd have been on the phone to them on a weekly basis....!
Matt-EUC
15-04-14, 11:03 PM
That seems a bit unfair, all things considered. People ram/tag police cars all the time in pursuits (if the telly shows are anything to go by)
I saw a guy (on telly) pull out of the way of a traffic car with blues and twos on, on a dual carriage way then pull into the side of him for no reason. The road was totally clear in front and behind. They guy then tried to claim the policeman hit him!
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