Been looking at the KTM SMC-R 690 [Archive] - SV650.org

Red Herring

14-04-14, 07:25 AM

They are brilliant fun if your idea of a ride is a hoon around local lanes, especially with mates on similar bikes (and even more so in the winter when it's all a bit slippery). The 690 is a very capable machine but even it can't live for long in company once speeds go into three figures, and you probably wouldn't want to go touring on one either...... Maintenance isn't quite the issue it used to be with the older 625/640/660 models, however they still need looking after properly.

Put it this way, I've had a Honda XR650 for over ten years and done just about anything you care to mention with it. In the same time period my mate has been through four separate KTMs........ and he's now got a Suzuki!

Dunn-y

14-04-14, 06:30 PM

How did he go through 4 KTMs?

I'm not bothered about top speed. I'd rather enjoy myself doing legal speeds around country lanes and the longest ride I've ever done has been about 150 miles.

It isn't just KTMs that I'm looking at. I'm basically looking for a supermoto that hasn't cost me so much to nuy that I'd be worried about dropping it. I want something that you can truly enjoy yourself on without needing to worry about the damage you could do from dropping it.

Red Herring

14-04-14, 06:49 PM

Well it sounds like a Supermoto is just up your street then. In fairness to my mate he did do a fair few miles on them but around the 10k mark they just seemed to become unreliable on him to he'd chop it in for the latest model. There was nothing really wrong with the LC4 engine, as I recall most of the issues were electrical. The 690 was a new engine all together and it's easily their best....
For a road Supermoto you do really want the bigger engine ones. My son has a DRZ400sm that's good fun, but when you ride it back to back with my XR it's just another ball game. I'd avoid converted competition bikes and stick with something built for road use, I know someone on here had quite a lot of experience with the Rotax CCM ones and can probably advise you on them.

Dunn-y

14-04-14, 08:41 PM

I'll keep looking. Still early days but I definitely want to get a supermoto as my next bike and hopefully I'll enjoy it as much as I did my 125.

The main problem I'm having now is actually finding one relatively local. There just doesn't seem to be many being sold at the moment.

kaivalagi

14-04-14, 08:41 PM

Dunn-y

14-04-14, 08:56 PM

I like the look of the 990 but I'm really after something in the 600 range that is just a big single.

kaivalagi

14-04-14, 09:06 PM

I'd get a test ride on a 690 first then just to make sure you'll be happy with the characteristics, majorly different to a equally sized twin...definitely not my cup of tea anyway

L3nny

15-04-14, 07:28 AM

Have you thought about the mt 03? Not exactly a sm but similar, cheap and reliable

Dunn-y

15-04-14, 04:46 PM

It's not just the cheap and reliable I'm after. It's the whole SM experience. Thumping single, narrow, tall and light weight that won't take loads of damage from a low speed drop.

Dunn-y

15-04-14, 08:33 PM

Anyone had experience with the Yamaha XT660X?

Red Herring

15-04-14, 08:43 PM

I have an 990 SM-T and it's a great bike, the suspension and brakes are ace and it's very confidence inspiring once you get used to it.

I've had a 690 duke loaned twice now when my bike was in for a service and I didn't get on with the motor to be honest, I am not sure what all the fuss about the thing is....the bigger twin is great though.

I suspect that's because you're riding it like you would the 990. The 990 is not a Supermoto, it may be styled on one, it may have SM in it's name, but I'd like to see you get it sideways on some slippery stuff......

kaivalagi

16-04-14, 05:36 AM

I'd need to learn the sideways stuff on a smaller bike first I think but it is the same underneath the fairing as the SMR with the same suspension and geometry etc and this is a bike I've seen people do the sideways stuff on...if I had the skills it could do what you'd expect from an SM on it I think...or do you just think it's too big a bike to be classed an SM? Same goes for ducati hypermotards?

Machine

16-04-14, 01:41 PM

If you want cheap and reliable you need to cross the KTM off the list, my 690 SMC was incredibly reliable but not cheap at all. They are a single cylinder engine with 2 oil filters and 2 gauze filters the 690 SMC (the proper one, not the twin pipe duke thing) are a 70bhp single so you need to look after the engine very well.

They are rapid tho and would knock any other single cylinder SM into the dust. You could always go and buy a Husquavarna as they are simply KTM's with blue plastics and slightly cheaper to buy because you dont have the premium added by Orange paint

Dunn-y

16-04-14, 04:49 PM

As stupid as it may sound. I've always wanted an SM but have never really properly looked into what's available. What 600cc+ SMs should I go look for and which ones to avoid?

I love my ZX9 but it's way to much power for just the road.

Machine

16-04-14, 04:58 PM

Ktm 690 smc, husqvarna smr 630 - both are interesting but require maintaining.

Any jap bike - no soul, no design, a bit tedious but you could ride it, never service it and never clean it and it would always work.

kaivalagi

16-04-14, 06:08 PM

If you only want a single then the above bikes are about it over 600cc, I think CCM do something too but it's possibly a little dull when compared to the KTM? Don't know though as I've never tried one...rthe lighter 450cc singles have some get up and go but are hour based servicing orientated so I don;t entertain them....if you're up for more maintenance then you could look at those too.

I reckon if you've never ridden one then blag a demo ride on a 690 SMR and see if that sort of thing is definately for you...you might as well jump on a 990 SM if they have one available there too :)

Dunn-y

16-04-14, 07:00 PM

After having a little look around the XT660 looks like it could do the job. Will have to try and find one I test ride now.

Machine

16-04-14, 07:37 PM

The 690 is a different kettle of fish to the 950/990. If you want to hoon around country roads get the 690 definitely. If you want to go on an "adventure" like so many do get the bigger bike.

The 690 has a huge grin factor and is all that's needed for the road. Plus they look wicked and don't seem to run out of legs. Mine could launch off the line then hit 5000 and it went again then at 7500 it was pulling like a train.

Mental and well worth the mental price tag, cheap insurance too!

andrewsmith

17-04-14, 06:29 AM

They are rapid tho and would knock any other single cylinder SM into the dust. You could always go and buy a Husquavarna as they are simply KTM's with blue plastics and slightly cheaper to buy because you dont have the premium added by Orange paint

That is only on the brand spanking shiny 2014 ones! They are slowly changing the models

If you looking for a cheap SM, look for Ccm 604's and 404's. They use the DR650 and a tuned DRZ400 respectively.
written with a biro

Machine

17-04-14, 07:09 AM

Since 2010 maybe even 09 the 690 has been a lot more refined and I used one to commute 45 minutes each way for a year which was mainly country roads but also dual carriageway and it was comfy enough for that. Ktm make a comfy seat option but not required IMO.

The engine doesn't vibrate like the 640's did as it is a lot more refined but also tuned to the limits.

My mate is a mechanic for a KTM team and he rarely sees engine problems on bikes he services for people because owners recognise the importance of servicing.

If you don't like getting a bit dirty, or you are no good with spanners and you don't like putting to your hand in your pocket then don't buy one but every morning when you start up your little jap thumper you will wish you had the power of the KTM, Husqvarna on tap!

Dunn-y

17-04-14, 12:38 PM

The whole idea of going for a supermoto isn't for raw power. If I wanted that I would stick with my ZX9 as that has gobs of torque and very quickly gets you into trouble.

I'm looking for a cheap to buy, cheap to run and cheap to maintain supermoto. The reason for looking at the XT660 is they seem to be cheap enough, they have a little more hp and torque than a DRZ for about the same price and to be honest they aren't that bad looking.

I'm not 100% decided yet, but pure power isn't what I'm going for.

Machine

17-04-14, 01:04 PM

Sorry the title said you have been looking at a KTM 690 SMC-R the most expensive production Supermoto on the planet at £7900. Thats why i offered my experience about why you should get one if you are thinking about it.

If your on a budget get the DRZ400SM, its light weight, nippy round town and reliable. Totally different to the KTM but good for a bit of a laugh on minor B-roads

Dunn-y

17-04-14, 01:08 PM

Sorry. I hadn't really looked into Supermotos and when I saw the 690 I thought that looks like a lot of fun but after seeing the costs involved I changed my mind.

At the moment, unless something else comes up, it's between the DRZ400 or the XT660X. Both about the same price.

Machine

17-04-14, 01:16 PM

DRZ all the way, you can also get (probably in with a deal on a private sale) the enduro wheels etc so you can quickly swap it over for a bit of green lane, at that point the 690SMC would become useless as its a pure road based hooligan machine!

kaivalagi

17-04-14, 01:22 PM

Could always get a 690 enduro and another set of wheels....£££££... :)

aarond

17-04-14, 01:26 PM

i had the DRZ 400 good fun... but did feel down on power even when at dual carriage speeds

Machine

17-04-14, 01:35 PM

Could always get a 690 enduro and another set of wheels....£££££... :)

Thats true but back to the pound notes problem!

Dunn-y

17-04-14, 01:58 PM

Just noticed the DRZ is about 40kg lighter than the XT. I really need to test ride one. Even though I'm not getting one for power, I hope that the lack of power compared to my 9 doesn't put me off them.

aarond

17-04-14, 02:01 PM

I got rid of mine as i just did not like taking it to 70 on the dual carriageway always felt like I was pushing the bike a bit too much.

There are a couple of sections of dual carriageway between Fraserburgh and Aberdeen (40 miles) after that I would usually meet the others and it would be great on the fun twisty roads but those 40 miles were a chore!

Machine

17-04-14, 02:04 PM

Plan your test route, if you set off on dual carriageways you will be instantly thinking its no good but get on your favorite little back road and it will all become clear.

Make sure the bike you are test riding is wearing decent sticky rubber. So many people are on a budget and put rubbish tyres on them which defeats the object totally, then they have no power and no grip either and also go out on a hot day.

Have a look around for decent bits to tune them up and make them a bit more pokey. The parts are not silly money so worth it.

andrewsmith

17-04-14, 06:55 PM

May I suggest...

http://www.aprilia-club.net/graphics/gallery/full/91_08aprilia-pegaso-650-trail5.jpg

Its the XT lump with more Power!! Rictus had one and it did shift (so was I until the SV's tensioner let go!) http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=178136

or the totally impractical single (but I've just had a trouser accident!!)

http://www.corporateflyfishing.com/Images/Bimota_1.jpg

kaivalagi

17-04-14, 07:25 PM

Good Shout Andrew, it was no slouch...but I think that might have something to do with the rider too lol

millemille

17-04-14, 07:50 PM

Experience with KTM supermoto's?

Yes.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/230/sundaywhoop005.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/34/0805091885.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/195/dsc01132k.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/188/dsc01577small.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/4/dsc01622dqk.jpg

Dunn-y

17-04-14, 08:24 PM

I keep going back to the XT over the DRZ. Top speed isn't an issue but I don't want it to be screaming at motorway speeds. The Pegaso looks good but it's more a tourer.

Why the twin headers from a single?

Red Herring

17-04-14, 08:47 PM

You do realize the XT isn't a proper Supermoto? Like the Aprilia it's a road going trail bike, designed primary for road use with a little unmade trail capability. You can still have fun on it, but it's not even in the same game as the KTM.

A proper supermoto has 17" wheels and will take either a 160 or 180 rear tyre, (apart from the DRZ which uses a 150) and a decent front brake as well.

If you want a nice compromise see if you can find a Honda FMX for decent money. It's got 17" wheels, decent brakes, average suspension and the old Dominator 650 engine which is mega reliable and easy to service. Nowhere near as fast as a KTM, but sensible to maintain.

Red Herring

17-04-14, 08:57 PM

A quick correction to my last post before someone else spots it.....

Yamaha do now do the XT in Supermoto trim, it's the XT660X, but it's a recent addition and you'd be lucky to find one under 3k......

kaivalagi

17-04-14, 08:58 PM

There is an SM style XT with smaller wheels, the XTX:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/bikereviews/searchresults/bike-reviews/yamaha/yamaha-xt660x--r-2004-current/

edit: beat me to it :)

£2700 for a nice 2008 with less than than 5000 miles: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201404143331186

Dunn-y

17-04-14, 09:13 PM

This was harder than I thought. I think I'm going to hold out a little while and see what comes up. I'm not in any rush to sell my ZX9 as it's a great bike and I still really enjoy riding it.

kaivalagi

17-04-14, 09:14 PM

Might be worth getting a demo ride in at your local Yam dealer....I might even blag one this weekend just to know what it's like...

kaivalagi

22-04-14, 08:53 PM

Red Herring

23-04-14, 06:52 AM

Saw this on visor down and thought you might be interested: http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-top-10s/visordown-readers-top-10-supermotos/24813.html

Aprilia SXV550 looks a good option, not sure on reliability, price or availability but 70bhp from a twin cylinder and only 124kg sounds good to me

Probably the best Supermoto I've ever ridden on the road, absolutely incredible performance however that comes at a price, the maintenance schedule is measured in minutes not hours (maybe a slight exaggeration but it sure felt like it) and reliability isn't that brilliant even then. They have sorted some of the issues with the earlier ones but there is no way you want one of these as a road bike unless you are a truly dedicated mechanic, or can afford to employ one!

kaivalagi

23-04-14, 07:06 AM

I thought it sounded too good to be true, that's the trouble with supermoto...most of the well performing lightweight bikes are off road hours serviceable ones...I guess it all comes back to the KTM 690 for a well performing light weight miles based servicing bike...

All this thread has gotten me interested in it as I am still toying with downsizing the SM-T later on (maybe next year) and a ~600cc SM would be the ticket I think...looked at the XTX but the low quality suspension pretty much excludes it from proceedings for me...I know the engine is a bit lacking but is reliable and can be tuned a bit, but front forks that crap on an SM doesn't sound good...I guess a demo ride wouldn't hurt.

I need to check out the CCM too, they do a new 450 adventure style bike now as well but it's pricey for what it is and the performance specs aren't the best (it is a 450cc after all)...looks like a great piece of kit though (maybe cheap enough if I can find one S/H in a year or so):

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Machine

23-04-14, 07:06 AM

Machine

23-04-14, 07:09 AM

I wouldn't go with a CCM they look like they have been built by ex TVR mechanics down to a price then sold at a premium for no good reason. Very agricultural!

Stick a decent set of forks on an XT if that's what the budget is telling you to get

kaivalagi

23-04-14, 09:31 PM

Hope you dont mind all the questions Machine as you seem to be in the know about a fair few things supermoto :) Do you even the new 450 to be inferior for the money? It has brembo brakes, marzocchi forks, it's running an ex-bmw detuned engine too etc etc. Also has a large fuel tank and good MPG so it will chug on for miles and miles...might need a gearing change to do long runs regularly I guess, something a second set of SM wheels could cover off maybe?

What forks could be had for an XTX? Is it a common practice to replace them?

@Dunn-y, hope you don't mind me running with these questions, I figured it might be of interest to you too? You've got me thinking of a alternative lightweight bike now lol

Dunn-y

24-04-14, 09:57 AM

@kaivalagi no problem at all. Looks like I may have changed my mind again anyway. I would still love a supermoto but not as my main bike so I'll wait until I can afford to have one as a second bike. For now, I'm quite interested in the naked Z1000.

kaivalagi

24-04-14, 10:26 AM

Or get a 990 sm ;)

Red Herring

24-04-14, 05:41 PM

If it helps any, and I know this is a boring suggestion....... but I bought an SV650 to replace my XR650 as my main rally bike. The XR still has the edge in the wet, but as an all round road bike the SV knocks spots off the XR. I admit the SV isn't standard, but it would still be a whole lot cheaper to buy a 4/5 year old low mileage SV and kit it out with straight bars and decent suspension than to buy a new "Supermoto".

I've still got the XR, if you're ever down my way (South East) I'll give you the chance to compare back to back.....

millemille

26-04-14, 08:47 PM

Aprilia twin cylinder bikes don't break down like old ducatis.

The rotax engine from the Mille is bombproof and rotax make light aircraft engines so have to be good.

I wouldn't worry about reliability on any new Italian motor

Sometimes it's better to just say nothing, rather than exposing your complete lack of knowledge on a subject.....

andrewsmith

26-04-14, 09:44 PM

Sometimes it's better to just say nothing, rather than exposing your complete lack of knowledge on a subject.....

Fancy doing the corrections?

For the record, Aprilia now only buy 1 engine from Rotax and that is the 750cc in the Shiver and Dorso. They have only bought engines now and again from Rotax, but they have bought motors from BMW, Suzuki and Yamaha also.
The rest of the engines are built buy Piaggio group (or another arm of the group).