Complete electrical failure - Pointy.

[shiftin_gear98]

Oh mighty Org, please advise.
On my way home tonight my bike simply died, cut out completely. Nothing. No dash lights at all. Only the sodding alarm going off! Datatool S3. Oh yeah before I'm asked 650S SK6.

I was enjoying my ride, entered Epping so easing off, and it just cut out, no warning at all.
Luckly sis n law lives nearby. So one epic push later my bike is now on her drive.

The alarm stopped going off halfway there.

Help please. Is this the green connector? If it's the alarm would the dash go out?
Hoping to go and play with it tomorrow.

[Bibio]

sounds very like the green connector. you can sometimes wiggle the right hand side harness where it enters the frame at the headstock to see if it will give life. if wiggling gives life then it's pretty definite that its the green connector.

[shiftin_gear98]

Thanks, I was hoping you would appear.
Just followed your advice today about adjusting the clutch. Worked a treat! Hence enjoying the ride. Until the push.
Piggin hills.

[shiftin_gear98]

Just to ask, where is the green conector located? Ignore this - up front under airbox. Or top of rad.
Lets hope I've got a long enough screwdriver.

[Bibio]

it's a complete nightmare to get at, the connector is located behind a plastic cowl at the back of the headstock above the radiator, it's held in with two plastic screw rivet pins that do not unscrew so you end up prising the things off with a screwdriver.

if you look at the radiator overflow rubber tube its usually clipped into the cowl you need to take off.

once the cowl is off then you will see the three connectors located to a bar.

its a cutty fingers and contortion act to get the job done.

[shiftin_gear98]

Thanks Lance, I'm sure it'll make me curse tomorrow!

[Bibio]

no probs. if you lift the tank you will get more light when doing the job.

[Red Herring]

Before we start taking the bike to pieces have you checked the obvious like the main battery connections and fuse? The alarm may well be wired separately which is why it kept going.

[shiftin_gear98]

Well as it was ****ing down this morning I didn't fancy trying to tackle the bike on an open driveway. So had an idea and looked at my insurance docs. Saw the magic words RAC breakdown cover europe!
Thought if I could get them to pick up the bike and deliver it home. I could play in my garage.
Anyhow guy comes out, and highlights my newbieness...
Yes i'm a schmuk.
He checks the main fuse, it's blown! Chump.

Word of advise to fellow newbies who have never broken down before, this was my first time and I think I panic'd too much. The alarm screaming and the gent giving me evils whose posh driveway I was occupying didn't help my focus.

Check the main fuse!!!!! Theres even a spare right next to it. Would have saved me pushing the ******* thing for an hour!!

Rode bike home no issues. Would a faulty green connector blow the main 30 amp fuse. Or are there any other common potential issues, or could **** just have happened.

Plan on trying to check green connector in next day or two.

Plus put two new 30 amps in my jacket pocket!

Shamed twice, head hung. Hopefully this stops someone else pushing one day.

[shiftin_gear98]

Red herring you must have typed whilst I was. Mind reader!
I did check the battery, but completely overlooked the fuse......
Wish you had commented yesterday. Oh well, lesson learnt.

[Red Herring]

Sorry, I was busy getting my own SV out of hibernation as it's hadn't been used yet this year.....and strangely enough had a flat battery!

[shiftin_gear98]

No worries, thanks for taking time to type.
Hope my obvious mistake helps someone else someday in the same situation.

[shiftin_gear98]

Well this morning could have been better, 2 1/2 mile push later...
Least it's nice and sunny, and I needed the workout.


Fuse went whilst shooting up the A10 this morning, interesting experience at slightly over the speed limit.
It'll be alright I said to myself, taking seat off to check fuse, yep it's blown. Put in spare, Test, Screw everything back down start bike pull away ride 30 seconds, blows again...only 1 fuse left now.
Repeat procedure. Screw back together, start bike, fuse blows straight away.


Bike obviously not happy.
Managed to push it to work. That was fun.......
Might be time to check the green connector. Does a faulty green connector blow fuses like this?
I am hopeless with electrics, don't even own a multimeter let alone know what to do with it.
We do have one at work somewhere though.

[shiftin_gear98]

Could this be the R/R?

[shiftin_gear98]

Morning Org,


Woke up early today and got to work 1 1/2 hours early. Bike is now in bits.
Got to the green connector, followed Lance's guide and it was plain sailing.
Thanks Lance.
Well apart from getting that pigging connector apart!! How many stupid lugs on it.
Not even a lacerated hand.


However when I finally got the connector apart.....
It looked as new as the day it was fitted!
Gutted now I have no idea where to look. :smt090


Any help/ideas of what to check next, would be greatly appreciated.


Martin


To recap yesterday.


First fuse blew under hard acceleration, second blew under gently acceleration pulling away, third blew just pressing the start button.

[garynortheast]

Going on my own recent experience, http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=210854 I'd say something, somewhere is shorting straight to earth. In my case it was a wire that chafed through.

[shiftin_gear98]

Gary thanks for the feedback, I read your thread earlier today. Yep I had come to that conclusion too - after discussing it with a my fellow biker at work.
Looks like time to check the spaghetti that is my wiring..


Still on a plus side yesterday after my epic push I got to work and noticed I'd dropped a glove.
I was more gutted about this than the walk.
My brother in law must have felt sorry for me, without asking he handed me the keys to his bike, and said take mine to look for it. First time he's ever let me have a go...


Gixer1000!!!


**** me was it fun!!!!!
First time I'd ever ridden anything bigger than my SV.
Can only compare the power difference to my SV like going from my YBR125 to the SV.


*******, now my life no longer feels complete.....

[Red ones]

Did you find the glove?

[shiftin_gear98]

Yes, I looked first, then had a cheeky hoon. :rolleyes:
Sure did shift at 11,000 rpm......

[Bibio]

if its not the green connector than i would start looking at the datatool, i'm sure someone else on here has had a problem recently with one and had to 'jack' it.

or the battery connections, and the loom at the headstock. a fuse blows when there is a short

[shiftin_gear98]

Well I finished being paid to work at 3, however I'm still here now - 4-45.
I can't see any wires that look worn or loose, bike is well and truly in bits!
Wish I was more savvy with bikes..


Battery all connected nicely, checked loom going through headstock.
Both sides look all ok, undid all connectors involved all pins etc look fine.
No signs of wear. Should I be unwrapping everything? Should be obvious shouldn't it?


Unsure what to do now, want to take the alarm off due to too many sodding wires, but know I'll fudge it up.
Anyone know a good auto electrician in the Hoddesdon area, currently where the parts of my bike are.


Tempted to try a new loom ( second hand - can't afford £500), that'd get rid of the alarm and hopefully the short. However no idea if there are lots of varieties.
A good one on ebay but for a L1?


Tried to search online using my frame number, however the online site reckons my frame is a 2008, rest of my bikes supposed to be an sk6??
JS1BY1322. Least of my worries now.


Please advise on loom compatibility. Thanks.

[Bibio]

i take it it's still blowing fuses? main fuse is 30amp so it has to be something that draws a lot of power.

check the main big thick positive strap that goes to the starter.

if its not melted the ignition wiring then i would presume its after the main fuse.

[shiftin_gear98]

To be honest it's in so many bits I hadn't tried another fuse yet. But as I haven't found the cause I guess it would still.
I did look at that strap, I think. No melted bits.
Decided that whilst the bikes in bits the alarm might as well go too, fed up pushing the bugger already. Have removed most of it, not cut anything yet.

It'll have to wait till Monday now, kid looking after duties call. :bball:

[JM2]

Don't panic. It is all fixable given enough time/effort.
If you want rid of the alarm then that could be a good next step - I'll never buy a bike with an add-on alarm that interferers with the main wiring, they all have the potential to cause so much grief later on. Best of all are the one installed by experts!
Don't some alarms actually s/c the main feed if "tampered" with ? -sort of belt and braces disablement.
If not a deliberate s/c then as mentioned previously some chaffing causing one - look thoroughly for damage to the loom. I've mis-placed my wiring diagram (new PC) but trace out from that main fuse (usually starter and solenoid and R/R output only).

[shiftin_gear98]

Really don't like alarms - WAY too many wires!!!!!
That I really don't understand what they are for.
Never knew a motorbike was so complicated, and why are there so many connectors that seem to do nothing ie they have a plug that doesn't do anything ...bike not alarm.


Really not loving my SV at the moment.:smt073


Bit scared of cocking this bit up...

[Red Herring]

Invest in a small voltmeter that can also measure resistance/continuity so you can check the RR and some of the basic wiring. If you can get the bike to start check the voltage across the battery, shouldn't be more than 14/15v even when you blip the throttle, any more and it's the RR. Otherwise invest in a big bag of fuses, connect everything back up but leave as much bodywork off as you can and start the bike. If the fuse blows straight away start disconnecting anything not essential for the bike to run (lights are pretty much all you can do on the SV) and see if that fixes it, if not (or the bike hasn't blown the fuse initially) then with the bike running start flexing the loom in as many places as you can get to. Hopefully it will then blow the fuse when you touch a particular part. Favorite places are where there is a sharp bend in the loom or where it touches or gets pinched by bodywork/frame.

[650]

I had alarm/fuse woes with my 650 a couple'a years back. Got RAC to take it to Edhinos in East india dock. Fixed it all up, replaced the green connector and removed an alarm...for £50. http://www.edinhomotos.com/


Do it, saves you faffing and doing more harm.

[shiftin_gear98]

Just ordered a bag of 100 fuses, should arrive tomorrow.
Let the fun begin....

[650]

haha wtf! Least you're determined, are these to keep in your pocket for while you're riding around? Might as well relocate the fuse box to the handlebars to make like easier!

[shiftin_gear98]

Morning Org.
Having gotten up stupid early and cycled this morning - first time in a year.
I have been staring at my bike for the last 1 1/2 with the wiring diagram in hand.


My alarm had one circuit breaker going to the starter relay, I have removed this and soldered the wire back together.


The remaining wires from the alarm that I thought had been installed by the alarm butcher turned out to be factory fitted, shocked at how Suzuki join wires up. Little brass clip and clear tape...


Basically the alarm plugs into the "alarm connector" pls see page 9.47 in the manual. Sorry no idea how to make a PDF smaller.
Top of page last thing. All my wires match the wiring diagram.


I have unclipped these connectors.


Ok so todays question..
Do I now need to bridge the wire in the connector from the mode selector to the ignition HT coil front, I think the diagram shows these linked??
They are not when alarm is unplugged.


Bike still in too many bits to see if it works at the moment.


Once again thanks for any comments.

[shiftin_gear98]

Hopefully image attached.

[shiftin_gear98]

No one?
Someone has to know if that will need to be bridged? Please.

[shiftin_gear98]

Just in case anyone is looking back after alarm removal advise, I just found this...will try it tomorrow.


http://www.svrider.com/forum/images/dark_vb/statusicon/post_old.gif 04-22-2013, 02:03 AM #5 TeeRiver (http://www.svrider.com/forum/member.php?u=25132)
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Re: oh cr*p what have i done
Another thought. Removing the Datatool alarm may have interrupted power to the ECM. That would explain why "CHEC" doesn't go away even if the Dealer Mode jumper is properly installed.

Was the Datatool plugged into an aux connector (all black wires) on the bike? If so, a jumper is required to reconnect Orange/White (ignition power) to Orange/Green (ECM power) at that connector.

Since the starter motor cranks, the kill switch, clutch switch, and kickstand interlocks must be OK.
__________________
The truth will set you free... but first it will pisš you off! -anon




That's the wiring diagram confirmed.

[shiftin_gear98]

Well didn't get alot done today. But the alarm is off!! And the bike started.....
It's so liberating to be able to touch the bike without the sodding alarm beeping at you. ;)
Bike ran for quite awhile, through various revving. No blown fuse :scratch:
Will try out the multimeter on Monday, and the cable wiggling.

[ophic]

You can narrow it down quite a bit, looking at the wiring diagram. There's only a few wires that are protected by the main fuse only.

Main feed post main fuse goes to the ignition, rectifier and fusebox.

After ignition it goes again to the fusebox, but also to the left handlebar switchgear. This is where I'd start looking as with the movement of the handlebars, it could quite easily chafe.

As it runs and revs, try turning the handlebars from lock to lock. Also try it with the headlights on main beam as this isolates a different part of the circuit.

[650]

Well didn't get alot done today. But the alarm is off!! And the bike started.....
It's so liberating to be able to touch the bike without the sodding alarm beeping at you. ;)
Bike ran for quite awhile, through various revving. No blown fuse :scratch:
Will try out the multimeter on Monday, and the cable wiggling.

Where do you park up (not asking for exact location, obviously) as I had my R1 pinched not too far from your postcode, lotta thefts going on at the moment so if your alarms gone..you might wanna invest in an alarmed disc lock and big, badass chain and lock.

[shiftin_gear98]

Orpic, thanks for the advise. Will give it ago.
650, the bikes lucky, my car can't fit in my garage due to access. So it's pretty safe there, even gets chained up when I'm away for any period. At work it's in a private carpark right outside my ground floor office window. Only use it to commute as the rest of my life belongs to my 3 kids. 6, 4, and 10 weeks. Won't miss the alarm at all.

[shiftin_gear98]

Ok,


So got to work early again. Turned bike on, no blown fuse.
Left to run whilst wiggling everything, nothing blew.


Side note, if you undo the radiator and have it resting on the exhaust (it's cable tied up too so no weight on cables etc.) you run the risk of melting the plastic clip holding the rubber guard to the bottom!! Another lesson learnt, managed to notice it before it melted.. smoked quite nicely though..


I have now checked pretty much every plug I can get to, unclipped checked contacts wires etc., no chaffing burnt bits.
I have also focused on wiring for the RR the starter motor the left had cluster. Nothing... Handlebar turned and wires wiggled multiply times.


I got the multimeter on the battery too.


Off 12.73
Key on, not started 12.10
Running 13.40 - 13.50
Revving the nuts off 14.44


Has been sat for a week or so. Battery regularly charged at home on a trickle charger.


Thinking it might have been the alarm.....?
Experts please comment...non experts welcome too.

[ophic]

The alarm has it's own 10A fuse, so you'd think that would blow first (I still have a spare in my pocket, even though I got rid of the alarm ages ago). However iirc the alarm patches into the ignition feed, so the wiring fault/short could have been here and you've now removed it.

Battery voltages look ok to me.

Alarms are great on new bikes but they don't seem designed to last.

[shiftin_gear98]

Well after more wire wiggling than I care for I haven't managed to blow a single fuse, find any chafing or burnt bits. The bike is finally back together, tidied up a few things while it was apart.


Gave it a quick blat around the car park at lunch. So with trepidation I'll give it a go home tonight, hope it's a nice ride, and not a long push!!


There's some big bugger hills on the way home. Still I'll have 100 30amps in my pocket! :thumbsup:

[ophic]

Best of luck.

Trust me, it will wait until you're in the middle of nowhere a hundred miles from home with no charge on your mobile, in the dark and raining, before it decides to play silly buggers again.

[shiftin_gear98]

Well she got home without a flutter! Good as gold. Mind you only a moderate poodle home.
Yeah, I know just as I think it is ok, which I don't just yet, then it'll shaft me. Right at the base of a big hill!

[BigFootIsBlurry]

I remember when my main fuse blew on my curvy. Stupidly I started pulling the bike apart before a checked the damn thing!

[shiftin_gear98]

Quick update, bikes been ridden everyday for 2 weeks.
Started off tentively, now back to normal semi hooning.

Not a single blown fuse. Yep still got the 100 30amps in my pocket just in case.

And the only thing I actually did apart from looking at wiring connectors etc was remove the Datatool System 3.

God it so liberating not having that ******* thing bleeping at me for just looking at the bike.