copywrite/patent laws

[Wideboy]

I've managed to get my grubby fingers are a piece of body work for a bike that was discontinued nearly 10 years ago. As a result they're now rare as rocking horse ****.

I paid a decent amount for it and was wondering what legal implications would there be on me taking a mold and selling a few on ebay?

[SvNewbie]

I'm procrastinating and thought that was an interesting question so spent a bit of time Googling.

From what I've read it sounds like most car parts can be copied by non-OEM manufactures, with the exception of parts for which the manufacturer has a patent claim. Obviously for a patent something needs to be patent worthy which means it must be in some way non-obvious or novel. You can probably rule that out for a seat cowl.

Apparently there have been some successful attempts to claim that body work has its own unique character and thus is deserving of protection under copyright law. Now, if you started with the mold made some improvements on the design you could argue that you don't fall foul of this either.

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=da0075df-68a8-48df-8982-c243f0e752dd

Practically, if you've got the time and effort to put into making the copies, when selling make it clear that they are not OEM parts, I would doubt anyone will ever bother with you.

[jambo]

Copywrite law is, from my understanding based around text, so not relevant here.
Patents require something to be documented, patented and technically unique, again I doubt it's relevant.

The main issue you may have is sale of goods or infringing on trademark/branding/mis-representation. Provided you are very clear these are after market items created to fit a given bike, and not original panels I don't see why it would be an issue. Aftermarket fairings are available for all sorts of bikes and most look very close to original panels.


I am, however, very happy to be corrected by someone with an understanding of the relevant law.

Jambo

[Wideboy]

It's not a seat cowl Mike, I'll be making my own mold for that but you're thinking along the right lines.

Both interesting reading. The parts are not OEM and are after market add on's. So I'd be copying an after market item, the company in question is still trading but has discontinued a lot of bits for the bike.

I'm not planing on retiring or anything stupid on this. Just knocking out one or two a week for a bit of extra dosh. Usually I wouldn't bother but it has taken me ages to get hold of one and I wasn't the only one after it.

[Wideboy]

Could I not be prosecuted for stealing intellectual rights or something?

It wasn't a unique item as a few companies made there own design but as far as I can see they've all discontinued it and other pieces. When they come up on ebay they go for silly money.

[Spank86]

Could I not be prosecuted for stealing intellectual rights or something?

It wasn't a unique item as a few companies made there own design but as far as I can see they've all discontinued it and other pieces. When they come up on ebay they go for silly money.
not really. Not unless there was something novel about the thing you copied.

If they'd come up with a part that gave a significant benefit to the bike then they could patent it but if not then they'd struggle, besides they'd have to know it was moulded from their part. If it wasn't unique they couldn't know that.

[Spank86]

It's also worth noting that the more general a patent is the harder it is to enforce.

So were they to patent the shape of the part yours would have to follow exactly the same shape and no other things could have that shape.

An example is apples patent of what appears to basically be a rectangle with curved corners, that would only have any chance of applying to something that matched it exactly with the same radius curves and sizing and even that would be iffy.

[SvNewbie]

I didn't know about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_design, I don't know enough about it to know whether its relevant anyway but I suspect the part wouldn't be covered due to the age anyway.

As always, you'd need a lawyer to know for sure. And even if there was one on here I doubt he'd put his neck on the line to give out free legal advice (my friend who is a property lawyer sometimes prefaces fairly colloquial emails which touch on legal aspects with 'this doesn't constitute legal advice).

If you ever make enough money out of it that someone is likely to come after you then you can worry about it then :)

[Bibio]

all you need to do is make a slight change to the design.

i very much doubt that they will go chasing you.

[Wideboy]

I'm fairly sure that on at least half of the panel they've just taken that part of their mold off the original factory panel

[Scoobs]

No one is going to bother you at 1 or 2 units a week. It's not worth the expense or the agro for them to make a case out of it. If it all gets a bit silly, just say sorry and stop doing it.

This isn't legal advice but is probably the common sense approach.

PS. I trust you aren't going to be making and marketing a pair of balls that hang from the number plate? If you are I'll have a set. Mates rates of course.

[squirrel_hunter]

I'm not sure of the legalities of things. But might be worth asking TaffMoto (http://www.taffmoto.co.uk/) about it as they have made a business out of this sort of thing...

[suzukigt380paul]

I've managed to get my grubby fingers are a piece of body work for a bike that was discontinued nearly 10 years ago. As a result they're now rare as rocking horse ****.

I paid a decent amount for it and was wondering what legal implications would there be on me taking a mold and selling a few on ebay?dont know the exact details,but dave silver can have just about any parts made for old honda's,that can be made and sold at a profit,as long as these parts dont have the honda logo on them,the thing he cant do is respray say a honda cb400 four tank and put reproduction tank badgers or tranfers on them,nor can he import old/new spares from anywhere out side the EU,and honda are very strict on there trade mark name and importing spares from abroard

[Wideboy]

I think i worded my original post badly.

The bike was discontinued ages ago, it was the after market body part that was discontinued 10 years ago.

[flymo]

Copyright would not apply in this case, it only applies to creative works.

If there was a patent pending or granted, or a registered design covering the item then you would need to obtain licence from the current holder to manufacture the parts.

If neither of these exist you can go ahead and make/sell them.

[Red Herring]

I believe there is nothing that can stop you making any part you want, it's all about how you describe it. For example if you have identified that there is a market for Yamaha TDR250 side panels there is nothing that says you cannot make a mold (however you may choose to do so) and sell the panel provided you describe it as your panel that fits a TDR250, rather than as a "Yamaha TDR250 side panel" which would imply that it was produced by Yamaha.

Patent is about copying somebody else's design, for example I think it was Ford that produced the first heated front windscreen and they patented the technique, which meant that it was then several years before another manufacturer was able to work out a sufficiently different way of achieving the same result to be able to also produce one themselves without having to pay Ford a licence fee.

[flymo]

Patent is protection of an idea, be it a technology, business or manufacturing process etc. Design is all about visual representation such as shape of a bottle, logo, packaging colour etc.

If there is a current valid patent or registered design then you would be at risk of breaching it, but I would guess very unlikely in this scenario.

[Mrs DJ Fridge]

Change one small bit and it is yours anyway, that is what people do when they copy our fridges.

[embee]

FWIW a chap on a bike forum has had moulds made for a particular bike bodywork accessory part which the original (one of the big 4) manufacturer discontinued. He then has had several batches of parts made by the moulding company and has sold them for a couple of years now. Hope that is all vague enough.

Anyway, it's only anecdotal but he's continuing to sell them, and they were an accessory from the bike manufacturer not an aftermarket business.

I'd guess your bigger concern would be to accurately describe them to your purchasers.

[Wideboy]

Ok. So rather than put "honda bla bla" I should put "bla bla to fit honda"?

Makes sense.

[Geodude]

Some nice 'Baron brand' curvy seat cowls that use the seat lock would be good sellers :)

[Wideboy]

you mean the helmet lock?

I'm going to make a seat cowl for the thunderace at some point as everyone has discontinued those and they go like leprechaun ****e on ebay. The other month a damaged one went for 110 quid.

Seat cowls wont be much of a money spinner I think. You'd need to buy an old pillion seat to build up off.

[Geodude]

If the helmet/seat lock is the key operated bit that the rear seat locks into then yes love. I did look into doing the sv ones using old rear seats but the cost of the old seats put me off, i may still do myself at some point one of the bigger hump style like the TL had. Me bro had an ace and was constantly pestered with lads asking if he would sell the cowl so might be a few lads wanting them.