View Full Version : You never know what's around the corner!
m15terroboto
03-07-14, 04:47 PM
I travel this road every few days so know it fairly well but this just goes to show things change and always be ready to expect the unexpected!
Luckily I could see nothing was coming so stood it up and drifted onto the other side of the road!
Another day and it may have been a different outcome for sure!
Geodude
03-07-14, 06:00 PM
What is it im missing? Diesel spill?
i was thinking the same. looks like water and gravel to me.
Haha, whilst I understand what you're gettin at here, after riding year round for a few years, I had the same initial comment as Geodude. If its the gravel in the road then all I can say is good thing it wasn't on the outside of the corner (where it usually is) as I never ride middle lane anyway. If it is diesel then it's a roll off - clutch in job. The corner isn't too severe so if I was going at pace I would have been on the middle line and probably seen it coming ages ago. BUT, you are absolutely right that familiarity breeds complacency and its the roads you know that often lead to a crash.
never ever pull the clutch in. only time you pull the clutch in is coming to a stop or changing gear. the second you pull that clutch in is the second you loose what ever traction you have or would have so it's an instant recipie for disaster.
What? That's crazy. Why would you want more traction if there's diesel in the road? Let me be clear. Clutch in over the diesel. If you're cranked over then nothing will help if you don't see it in time except getting off the gas and steering out of trouble.
what happens when you pull the clutch in while mid corner on a wet road? what happens when you pull the clutch in on gravel?
but you keep riding how you like m8
What are you trying to say? I didn't say pull the clutch in for gravel or wet roads. The example was diesel in the road. Nothing wrong with pulling the clutch in. Its done on dirt bike riding with no problems. And there's far less traction on a greenlane.
If diesel is down and suddenly you're upon it before you can avoid it, pulling the clutch in and letting it just roll over the diesel is a good strategy. I only speak from experience and there was absolutely no problem.
If you're leaned over in a corner in the same circumstances, it doesn't really matter what you do in that split second. Just hope you're lucky, try and steer to safety, don't panic brake and don't crash. You can still pull the clutch in and let it out again after you've passed the diesel, even on lean. But you'll have had a lot to do in a short space of time. In any case, you always let the clutch back out gently so the power doesn't cause the rear wheel to break traction.
So what does happen when you pull the clutch in mid corner? Nothing if you know what you're doing. Are you suggesting you'll run wide? Well of course, if you were not in the right road position. But I can do this deliberately if I want without any problems if I'm running a good line (and I have before). All you're doing is letting the wheels roll around the corner. No problem.
But you keep riding how you like mate.
ok i'll leave you to it. :smt008
Cheers. Back to the original post. Would like to know what the hazard was.
Littlepeahead
03-07-14, 08:35 PM
It's the elephant on the right near the gate. They are really hard to spot when they are a bit muddy.
Specialone
03-07-14, 09:36 PM
I'll be honest, I wouldn't pull clutch in either, a non driving wheel is a free wheeling wheel, not in control, a stable wheel under no acceleration is better IMO on loose surfaces, I do this off road, if I'm going through something I know will break traction I roll off and keep bike as upright as possible until I'm through it or I'm confident to control it if it let's go.
In regards to the op, if you're doing reasonable speeds for the conditions, that shouldn't cause you any concern IMO.
Hmm I reckon I would have been to the right of the lane and just rode through that making sure to miss the gravel. Still a good point though, I remember on my regular commute coming round a tightish left hander to be met by some un-signed roadworks and a red light. I swear they weren't there the day before. Anyways some heavy braking and weaving round a cone later all was well...
As for the clutch in thing, well personal opinion here: I cant think of many (any maybe?) situations where I would fully pull in the clutch mid corner, roll off the throttle yeah but never clutch in. I am pretty sure it just unloads the bike, losing stability and making you more likely to slide the front which is considerably harder to catch/correct than sliding the back. But each to their own, whatever works for you, do what you feel comfortable with etc etc (I love cliches!)...
Jayneflakes
03-07-14, 10:21 PM
Cheers. Back to the original post. Would like to know what the hazard was.
If you look hard you can see it, there are stinging nettles by the gate. They are horrible things and the rash lasts for hours. :bom:
Well boo to you all! I am a freak :-)
Anyway, clutch in (as in "slipping" the clutch) on a straight road was my original comment - that road is straight enough. Doesn't cause any problem. I suppose it depends on how good you are with the clutch. I'm always slipping the clutch anyway - slow riding, fast riding, backing it in... ;) But wanted to also make the point that its possible to clutch in on a wet corner, as that's the scenario Bibio mentioned. I'm not recommending it, just saying its not fatal on a wet road. But as I said, if there's diesel in the road in a turn and you don't see it in time its best to pray and hold on.
Phil, do you remember that tunnel with the diesel? That's exactly what I did. Clutch in ("slipped") no squirming of the rear tyre = no problem.
... I hate cliches. There is no one way to ride. When people say that "you do what you want" thing, its always after giving their "right way" and almost like saying "you'll learn when you end up in a bush". Well, we had this same discussion when it came to using the rear brake. And lord knows I could not do without mine. Its easy for people to have a view on something they've never tried, but it doesn't make it right - even if it sounds like it makes sense. There is no one way. Anyway, hijack over. That's it from me.
it's the speedway riding moments that get my butt cheeks clenching and when the back overtakes the front then i know i'm in biiiiig trouble :-)
i dont like that crunchy scrapie sound one little bit as it always costs money so i do my best to avoid it :smt120
anyway i think its run off as the verge on the left is wet all the way down where the other right hand verge is dry.
Hehe fair play. I did the cliche thing there as a rather humorous (probably to me only) way of saying it is near impossible to genuinely give your own opinion online, then go on to say "but you do your own thing", without sounding like a keyboard warrior trying to say "I'm right you're wrong... noob!".
I know everyone does their own thing, I know a lad who doesn't countersteer, just uses weight on the pegs. I mean, crazy right? That seems completely alien to me.
Oh and I have remembered a time I pulled the clutch all the way in. Pulled into my street late at night which wasn't gritted and realised it was an ice rink. Pulled in the clutch and didn't touch anything. Rolled in a straight line praying a little until I rolled onto the grassy roundabout where I could actually touch my brake and stop. I then pulled out my mobile and rang my brother who was in the house (about 40ft away) to help me as I was almost certain I would drop the bike trying to move it and couldn't get the stand down.
Fun times...
Specialone
04-07-14, 06:09 AM
I think it's virtually impossible to turn a road bike over 20mph without counter steer, your mate is probably doing it naturally without realising, I steer my dirt bike with the pegs but it weighs 140kgs.
Ronnie, I'm with you on the rear brake mate, I use mine all the time, especially on low speed stuff.
Your speed in KMH , i can,t see it in the second pic?
So what was it ?
Diesel or water or you never checked ?...
m15terroboto
04-07-14, 05:33 PM
It was the loose gravel which gave me concern, but obviously by the replies I should not have been!
One thing for sure is peoples perception of hazards differs greatly and if nothing else it caused a little debate!
With regards to the speed shown that is of course in that stupid darn european rubbish, I must read up how to change the settings ;o) and looking back at the video I should not have been heading into the corner at 90 kilo thingy wotsits!
Littlepeahead
04-07-14, 06:15 PM
Loose gravel on the SV used to scare me, first week I had the gs I hit a load I hadn't seen masked by dappled sunlight and it fishtailed about a bit but felt so different in an upright position with semi knobbly tyres, though Rob H behind me said he was wondering if I was going to lose it. Since then I've worried far less about gravel. Some of the roads in Thailand are appalling and they've definitely given me more confidence over here. (In Thailand the elephants round the blind bend really are an issue though, they don't even go single file)
never ever pull the clutch in. only time you pull the clutch in is coming to a stop or changing gear. the second you pull that clutch in is the second you loose what ever traction you have or would have so it's an instant recipie for disaster.
Sunday I did a FireBike skills day.
One of the things that they teach is when you do an emergency stop, pull in the clutch.
So it's different strokes for different folks
It's actually hard to do if like me your not used to it.
The theroy behind it is sound ie a turning wheel has stability, so what happens when you got the back wheel a few inches of the ground it's not going to skid when it lands and is helping if it's just in the air spinning.
Specialone
07-07-14, 12:31 PM
Sunday I did a FireBike skills day.
One of the things that they teach is when you do an emergency stop, pull in the clutch.
So it's different strokes for different folks
It's actually hard to do if like me your not used to it.
The theroy behind it is sound ie a turning wheel has stability, so what happens when you got the back wheel a few inches of the ground it's not going to skid when it lands and is helping if it's just in the air spinning.
A none driving wheel (clutch pulled in) will lock up very easily, same as your car, don't slam on the brakes and push clutch in at the same time, it will lock (non abs).
A none driving wheel (clutch pulled in) will lock up very easily, same as your car, don't slam on the brakes and push clutch in at the same time, it will lock (non abs).
We were not panic breaking ,It was a progressive but firm 4 finger proper hard squeeze to teach you how quickly you can stop front tyre pushed in the road.None of the 2 finger panic, jab on breaking that apparently causes most lock ups.
On a disused air strip the surface was still very grippy,
I don't think I manged to get my clutch in as the Daytona just wanted to put its tail in the air so was kinda bricking it every tie i did it
We did the intentional front wheel lock up and,with M5's it does take a fair old bit of animalisum to get them to let go, sattisfying howl and smoke when i did :thumright:
i do wish they would stop teaching this to learners and so called advanced riding. if your bike rear wheel is in the air you are not braking correctly. as specialone says if you pull the clutch in your going to lock up. this practice is taught at all training schools so you can pass your test due to not stalling while doing an emergency stop. passing your test has nothing to do with being a good rider/driver. same goes for them teaching you to 'ride up the middle of your side of the road' in your lessons. top tip: stay out the middle as that's where all the shizz gets moved to by cars so you end up with oil, screws/nails, glass etc.etc on your tyres so learn to 'ride the tracks'.
you pull the clutch in at the very very last second and almost at stop. engine braking + friction from tyre's and brakes will make you stop faster and in more control than grabbing a handful of front brake and pulling the clutch in.
In fairness I don't think I can un learn the clutch in last moment thing if I had to use an emergency stop. Your likely to just go back to old habits.
But I did stop in a shorter distance on just the front brake with the back in the air(this was near to the end of the stop last 3 meters maybe). Mostly I guess as the surface was gripping and the tyre did a good job.
Even a z1000 and a zx10 with abs still lifted the back wheel of the ground
Oh i did get a moan at for locking the back wheel too,But like Bilbo I was taught you use both brakes (un learning nearly 40 years of bike ridding is difficult in a day!)Ok maybe 80% maybe 90% front but still the back is adding to the effort
Did my test a long while ago now, but back then they taught, for an emergency stop, forget everything but the brakes. Front/rear balance, keeping rear wheel down, fine. Clutch in when you come to a stop was completely optional. You wouldn't fail if you stalled it.
2-stroke 125s had naff all engine braking anyway.
first time i had a go on a bike with ABS i kept feathering the front brake when the ABS kicked in. took me a few goes to get used to it. i still do the same in the car. my brain feels the bike/car lock up and immediately tells my hand/foot to let some of the pressure off.
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