Mobile speed camera

[Jayneflakes]

I had an interesting chat last night at Weston Bike Night with a retired Policeman who is now working as a camera operator. The camera is carried by a Police BMW bike and the recorder is mounted in the top box.

What really shocked me is just how clear the image is over a great distance. Do not think that you are safe if you are a mile away from the camera. As an experiment I asked him to train the camera on my number plate which is a custom job and it was very easily readable.

The Officer involved claimed that the camera unit was requested by the public and being bike mounted could go to places that the camera van could not. Currently we have three bikes in Somerset and he informed me that there are plans to introduce another three and maybe even more. The guy firmly believes that speeding bikers are a terrible menace and this is the way forwards.

My personal view is that the increase in cameras is immoral and an intrusion into freedom of movement, however when it was mentioned that further cameras were being planned, it was the people wearing the fluro vests with "Polite" stamped on the back who asked if they could apply for the job of operator.

So folks, if you see a Police Bike parked on the side of the road, make sure that you are careful.

[LewSpeight]

Very good info, thanks

[Red Herring]

Out of interest Jayne are they stopping offenders detected with this system at the time or sending a nice letter to the supposed registered keeper a few days later?

[squirrel_hunter]

The Officer involved claimed that the camera unit was requested by the public and being bike mounted could go to places that the camera van could not.

What was requested was that the camera vans should stop parking illegally and dangerously. It appears this is the solution. It only took them 15 years to listen. Personally I would prefer it if the time and resource was spent on road safety.

[maviczap]

Ok, speeding is a factor in many accidents, but what about people on their phone or texting at the wheel?

One speed camera, one operator (or two) equates to minimum expenditure, but results in easy revenue gathering. Slows a few people down for a time.

Catching people using their phone at the wheel requires a greater reliance on observed activity, which would require at least 2 officers, a vehicle, fuel, at a time when Police numbers are being reduced to save money.

Its about time some work was done on this problem, instead on focusing on speeding all the time

[Jayneflakes]

Out of interest Jayne are they stopping offenders detected with this system at the time or sending a nice letter to the supposed registered keeper a few days later?

I was told that the data recorded with the camera is passed to another operative and that this person goes then through photos and sends out the letter later. The camera operative merely records the offender, but as a non Police Officer is not able to stop speeders. :shock:

This means that the person recording your offences is not a Police Officer, but a privately employed person. So that is going to be a fair assessment of your crimes! :smt037

[Ninthbike]

The big issue with speed cameras, and one that has now been acknowledged by most police forces is that they only detect one "crime" -speeding. They have no discretion to decide whether the speed was excessive for the circumstances, nor do they see whether a driver/rider was driving dangerously (speed does not automatically equal dangerous, many people are dangerous drivers without exceeding the speed limit - donuts in a car or on a bike are usually performed at very low speed but in the middle of a dual carriageway can be exceptionally dangerous, old drivers who cannot see over their steering wheel or any further than 20 feet in front of their car are exceptionally dangerous and oblivious) and nor do they detect things like no insurance, tax or MOT, nor whether the driver is under the influence of drink or drugs or whether the vehicle in question is fit to be on the road at all. It is time that the money spent on speed cameras (which are incredibly expensive) and their administration was spent on more police officers on the road. Every single day I shout at somebody for using their phone for calls, texts or emails or driving with their kids jumping around in the back or front of the car but these "crimes" almost always go unnoticed and unpunished - all at the same time as authorities are finding ever more sophisticated ways to empty our bank accounts and make our lives miserable. Rant over.

[Ch00]

Maybe you should contact your local Police and Crime Commissioner and ask them to lobby the Chief Con of that area for a change of tact?

If people paid a little more attention when driving then most of the time they would not get caught by a camera (mobile sites are harder to avoid). If people were not getting caught then they would not upgrade them or add new ones.

[Ninthbike]

Which is a great argument if you consider exceeding the speed limit as a serious crime. Personally, I feel that any speed on an empty, wide road is not a problem. The real issue is that speed cameras of all sorts are sold to the public on a "road safety" ticket. Road safety would be far better (and ultimately more cheaply) achieved by recruiting more police officers and prosecuting all of the uninsured, untaxed, unlicenced, inconsiderate and incompetent drivers and riders that inhabit British roads. There are thousands of drivers and riders that have been licenced for years, never had or caused an accident and have never evaded any of the expensive legal requirements for driving in the UK but because they have been caught travelling as little as 5mph over the speed limit now find themselves with points on their licence and a fine. It's just wrong. As for not getting caught by paying greater attention, I spend most of my time on the bike paying attention to not being wiped out by drivers who seem to spend most of their time in a dream world.

[Ch00]

Which is a great argument if you consider exceeding the speed limit as a serious crime. Personally, I feel that any speed on an empty, wide road is not a problem.

I don't consider it to be a serious crime but it appears that if you can justify it eg night time, wide road, good weather then you can break the law to suit!

Taken to the extreme, its like stealing a chocolate bar because there was a queue and you were in a hurry.

I do agree however that there does need to be more focus on driving standards but there is not the staff to cover everything.

[Ch00]

Just a couple of sums for London.

TFL states that their Safety budget will rise £100 million to £250m by 2022/3 So there current budget is £150m to cover everything. They are using a large amount to this to replace and upgrade the cameras in London. These cameras once installed work 24/7 and should last 10 years. Only a tiny amount goes to the Police to cover part of the processing costs. The rest goes to central government.

The otherside of the coin is more cops. Add the same number of cops as cameras put them in a car or bike and your looking at £50m a year (excluding back office processing costs and staffing). They only work 40 hours a week and will be used for other stuff. The tickets they write go though the same departments and court system as the camera offences but the Police get no funding for this so each ticket processed costs the Police money. All fines go to central government.

So in the long term the cameras are cheaper to run.

The modern Police service is run more like business now than a service.

[Red Herring]

I was told that the data recorded with the camera is passed to another operative and that this person goes then through photos and sends out the letter later. The camera operative merely records the offender, but as a non Police Officer is not able to stop speeders. :shock:

This means that the person recording your offences is not a Police Officer, but a privately employed person. So that is going to be a fair assessment of your crimes! :smt037

It also means that the only persons that are going to get prosecuted by this system are those honest enough to register and insure their vehicles, and display the correct number plate.....

In my 28 years of front line policing I've stopped a fair few drivers and riders for exceeding the speed limit. A surprisingly small percentage of those ended up in court for the original offence.......

[DJFridge]

Which is a great argument if you consider exceeding the speed limit as a serious crime. Personally, I feel that any speed on an empty, wide road is not a problem. The real issue is that speed cameras of all sorts are sold to the public on a "road safety" ticket. Road safety would be far better (and ultimately more cheaply) achieved by recruiting more police officers and prosecuting all of the uninsured, untaxed, unlicenced, inconsiderate and incompetent drivers and riders that inhabit British roads. There are thousands of drivers and riders that have been licenced for years, never had or caused an accident and have never evaded any of the expensive legal requirements for driving in the UK but because they have been caught travelling as little as 5mph over the speed limit now find themselves with points on their licence and a fine. It's just wrong. As for not getting caught by paying greater attention, I spend most of my time on the bike paying attention to not being wiped out by drivers who seem to spend most of their time in a dream world.

Pretty much agree with all of this

I don't consider it to be a serious crime but it appears that if you can justify it eg night time, wide road, good weather then you can break the law to suit!

Taken to the extreme, its like stealing a chocolate bar because there was a queue and you were in a hurry.

I do agree however that there does need to be more focus on driving standards but there is not the staff to cover everything.

But not this. There is no equivalence between speeding and stealing chocolate. Either speeding is a crime because it's dangerous, in which case even stealing the whole shelf of chocolate bars isn't even in the same league. Or you believe that the national speed limit is entirely arbitrary, decided in a different era of vehicle performance and safety and mostly to stop Jaguar and others using the new motorways to speed test new cars. So stealing chocolate is much worse than 105 on a motorway, morally anyway.

[NTECUK]

There are more people who are concerned with speed than the misuse of mobiles and driving standards. As a result of this more and more cameras are going to be put in place.
Unless Mr Joe public get organised and actively interveans in changing this policy.
In any collision what ever was the cause the resulting damage has a direct correlation to the energy of the item that has lost control.
So it is a reasonable assumption that if you can get this under control the result of the any incident will be reduced.
So it's the easy fix (as usual).

So we're have to be good and behave as big brother knows best.

[Biker Biggles]

As the technology becomes available at the right price it will be used so get with it.Speeding will be essentially stamped out by universal surveillance in one form or another whether we like it or not so we will have to find our pleasures elsewhere.Everyone should read George Orwell at least once in their lives to realise where this is going if only to decide to approve of it.

[NTECUK]

we will have to find our pleasures elsewhere..
Forum track day anyone ;)
On the plus side there are good roads still to be enjoyed were you can keep within the NSL and still have a good time.

[Matt-EUC]

I am completely against the misuse of speed whilst driving.

If you're going to take amphetamines, at least do it in the privacy of your own home where nobody cares, or try and get it prescribed so you have an excuse.



We're talking about a completely different kind of speed aren't we...


Sent via the medium of interpretive dance.

[Heorot]

Perhaps this is the way to go!
http://english.controleradar.org/burning-gatso.php

[keith_d]

I am completely against the misuse of speed whilst driving.

If you're going to take amphetamines....

Do you remember the "Speed Kills" campaign? I always thought it wasn't the Speed that kills, it's the Smack.

[yorkie_chris]

The mental thing is, this doesn't catch criminals it makes them. You should read "Atlas Shrugged" as well!

Catch more people breaking the most paltry of laws while if you're wanting to drive a stolen van full of heroin and semtex... well crack on, so long as you're at 29.9mph using someone else' plates you're fine!

[LewSpeight]

If you get flashed, surely you should just floor it and carry on speeding instead of slowing down..

You've already been caught, get ya moneys worth!

[NTECUK]

It's a nick for every cam that catches you.

Might turn out a bit spensive in London as they are evey were

[Spank86]

Taken to the extreme, its like stealing a chocolate bar because there was a queue and you were in a hurry.

Theft is not arbitrary in the way speed limits are.

[Ch00]

My example was more based on the fact that because people justify why they were speeding. Which is why I used a chocolate bar. Surely a law is a law!

[Spank86]

My example was more based on the fact that because people justify why they were speeding. Which is why I used a chocolate bar. Surely a law is a law!
Surely not.

There are laws which merely mirror morality, and then there are laws which do not.

Speed limits are (in most cases) completely arbitrary and also have no moral underpinning. Going 72mph is no more moral or immoral than going 68 and doing the speed limit some places can be much more dangerous than speeding in others.

Theft however is clear cut and can be brought back to a moral issue. You are depriving someone of something that is theirs.

[Ch00]

Surely not.

There are laws which merely mirror morality, and then there are laws which do not.

Speed limits are (in most cases) completely arbitrary and also have no moral underpinning. Going 72mph is no more moral or immoral than going 68 and doing the speed limit some places can be much more dangerous than speeding in others.

Theft however is clear cut and can be brought back to a moral issue. You are depriving someone of something that is theirs.

You are using reason and objections to make speeding ok using your example even if its only 2mph over.

If you steal something you break the law

If you speed you break the law.

I don't think morals come into it.

[Spank86]

You are using reason and objections to make speeding ok using your example even if its only 2mph over.
I'm not saying speeding is ok or not ok since "ok" is very imprecise.

I'm saying it's not necessarily immoral even when it's illegal


If you steal something you break the law

If you speed you break the law.

I don't think morals come into it.

I on the other hand do. If you don't have morals where is your basis for the law? (admittedly you could simply apply rationality as to "what is best for society" but that really is the essence of morality anyway)

Speed limits were created by people who had probably never seen 90% of the roads they were applying them to and now apply to cars that hadn't even been dreamt of at the time. There are only two reasons not to break them. Fear of punishment or a desire to follow the whims of dead (or retired) politicians.

So essentially yes you could pour money into enforcing laws that aren't hurting anyone when broken or you could use the money to do things that matter Like marching all the able bodied men down to the archery butts on Sunday in case the French invade.

[Red Herring]

Laws are simply the tools that are used to maintain a reasonably safe and effective society. You should use a tool because you need to, not simply because it happens to be in the tool box.

When I came out of police school all those years ago I was pretty tooled up so to speak, but didn't have a clue what to do with them. My tutor put it very simply for me. He said you simply have to remember two rules, the B rule and the F rule (this forum is U rated).....

He said if you see something and your reaction is "Oh B", then rule B applies and you should stop them doing what they are doing and write a few things down.

If on the other hand your reaction was "Oh F", then just get you cuffs out and nick them because that's what's needed......

If you see something and neither rule applies then either your morals are so far out you shouldn't be a copper, or perhaps it isn't something you need to bother yourself with.

Unfortunately things aren't done this way anymore, but the police didn't change willingly. The public ultimately have reaped what they sowed.

[keith_d]

Unfortunately things aren't done this way anymore, but the police didn't change willingly. The public ultimately have reaped what the tabloids sowed.

Corrected for you.

[Biker Biggles]

Laws are simply the tools that are used to maintain a reasonably safe and effective society. You should use a tool because you need to, not simply because it happens to be in the tool box.

When I came out of police school all those years ago I was pretty tooled up so to speak, but didn't have a clue what to do with them. My tutor put it very simply for me. He said you simply have to remember two rules, the B rule and the F rule (this forum is U rated).....

He said if you see something and your reaction is "Oh B", then rule B applies and you should stop them doing what they are doing and write a few things down.

If on the other hand your reaction was "Oh F", then just get you cuffs out and nick them because that's what's needed......

If you see something and neither rule applies then either your morals are so far out you shouldn't be a copper, or perhaps it isn't something you need to bother yourself with.

Unfortunately things aren't done this way anymore, but the police didn't change willingly. The public ultimately have reaped what they sowed.

In a democracy

You should be careful what you vote for

As you might just end up getting just that:smt045

[Red Herring]

Yeah, sorry guys that was a bit deep wasn't it. I was having a bad day and needed to sound off!

[Spank86]

In a democracy

You should be careful what you vote for

As you might just end up getting just that:smt045

I can't remember the last time "beer and strippers" was on a ballet form.


Yeah, sorry guys that was a bit deep wasn't it. I was having a bad day and needed to sound off!

It was fine up until the last line.

When people voted in Labour I don't think any of them knew they were voting for a statistical numbers driven approach to everything that would make hitting targets a greater priority than good service.

[Jayneflakes]

The Rozzas are at it again in Somerset, more new and scary toys to catch you filthy bikers at play!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10351155_736434859753003_1174153881689911604_n.jpg

This time they have gone all Mad Max on us with the introduction of the new BMW twin turbo 155MPH Interceptor chase car.

Features include NPR cameras located in front of the rear view mirror and in the rear number plate, huge twin turbo diesel engine and super bright LED flashing lamps.

Expect to see it very soon cruising the M4/M32 in and out of Bristol and the surrounding areas looking for speeding drivers, untaxed vehicles and those c***s with no insurance who love to crash into innocent drivers!

We had a huge amount of Rozzers at Bike Night this evening, a mobile camera van, a camera bike, the Interceptor and a mondeo with a sniffer dog in the back. Are Avon and Somerset Rozzers trying to tell us something? :rambo:

[Red Herring]

Do you really thing police forces invest all that money in technology just to catch untaxed/uninsured vehicles..... Trust me, that's just a side line that gets in the way occasionally.

[Geodude]

Maybe a daft question (cos i is daft) but what they really for then RH?

[shiftin_gear98]

Hooning around the countryside!

[Jayneflakes]

Do you really thing police forces invest all that money in technology just to catch untaxed/uninsured vehicles..... Trust me, that's just a side line that gets in the way occasionally.

The gentleman driving said car told me this yesterday, it may be that he was giving out only half of the story then. But I have reported it as he explained it to me, the vehicle is to catch speeding vehicles coming out of Bristol and has number plate recognition to catch untaxed and uninsured vehicles. I will also add that I had no reason to doubt his intentions and he was more than happy to discuss with us the cars capabilities. It enters service in roughly two weeks once the software has been finished in the on board computers and the hardware has been checked and sorted. :salut:

He was also another Owl breeder, so was immediately friendly because I was holding our pet Barn Owl. He seemed like a nice guy, but he did have a frame on his leg and kept talking about some one called Goose who rode a Z1000! Seemed he was at bike night looking for a guy called Toe Cutter... I may have made this last bit up! :smt043

[Red Herring]

Maybe a daft question (cos i is daft) but what they really for then RH?

Criminals use cars to commit crime, the transport the proceeds of crime, and sometimes the vehicle itself is the crime (stolen vehicle). In addition to this criminals rather inconsiderately don't walk around with their name on their forehead. They do however drive around in vehicles displaying number plates, which can be tracked, located and stopped, providing you have the equipment and expertise to do so.

In short, find the vehicle, find the villain. High profile cars such as this are part of the package, but not all of it. The use of ANPR is now pretty much in the public domain so I'm not giving to much away.

[Geodude]

Ta for the education RH :)