Gear Change Problems

[Foot]

There is probably a post about this, I did look, but figured it might not be specific enough to my problem. So here goes.
I've got a K4 SV650s and I seem to be having problem with changing gear now and then. I'll give as much information
here as I can, so some of it might not be relevant.


Occasionally when changing from 1st to 2nd or vice versa it sits into neutral. Seems to have only really happened when
going onto roundabouts.
Then when it is in neutral and I try to shift down (not whilst I'm stationary), even with revs low and clutch fully in it makes
the horrible dududud bouncing kind of sound. If that's clear enough. And I end up having to push down pretty hard to force
it into first.
Also one time I pulled over for a break during a long journey, was in gear, clutch fully compressed on flat ground and the bike
was slowly moving along. Again, this has only happened once and I've not been able to make it happen again.
The most worry thing is when I sometimes shift up gears (usually 4th to 5th or 5th to 6th) it sits in a fake neutral between
the gears. So it just revs without any drive, but it's of course not in proper neutral.



I think this may be happening more frequently. Could it be due to the gear lever needing some oil? On Saturday me and my
bike got drenched for about an hour of a 200 mile journey and I've not been able to relube or clean the bike since I don't have
the stuff to do it here (in Manchester). Although I've bought everything I need and it should be arriving today!
Another possibility, maybe the clutch cable is worn?
Or could any of this be down to my own error? Maybe if I'm trying to shift up gears too quickly and the clutch isn't fully
engaged?
Or even still the clutch needs to be adjusted because when the levers pulled in it's not fully engaging the clutch?



When down shifting I blip the throttle maybe 1000 revs (certainly never more than 2000) because I've read this helps sits
gears in smoother (and I like the sound :smt080). Is there a possibility if I'm doing this incorrectly it could damage the gearbox? If
you do this, could you run through the exact procedure?

Thank you for your advice!

[Bibio]

you may be resting your foot between gear changes or not allowing full stroke. when changing gear you must let your toes move away from the lever fully.

the lever could be needing greased. pop the circlip off the lever pivot, remove lever clean parts and assemble with grease.

[Foot]

you may be resting your foot between gear changes or not allowing full stroke. when changing gear you must let your toes move away from the lever fully.

the lever could be needing greased. pop the circlip off the lever pivot, remove lever clean parts and assemble with grease.

I never rest my feet on the brake or gear levers, I always ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs and then move my foot if I need to shift gears / brake. I'll try giving it a good grease though, hopefully it's as simple as that!

[Corny Gizmo]

If I'm honest sounds like a slack clutch cable to me, coupled with not confirming the up shifts (I.E not doing it hard enough)

EDIT: And the loud bang into first always happens to me if road speed is above 10-15mph but revs are low (Idle or just above) try keeping the revs while changing down or change into first just before you stop.

Just my opinion mate.

[johnnyrod]

It sounds like two things. The clutch adjustment needs checking - do a search, this topic comes up about once a month or more. It sounds like it's dragging. The other thing to look at is the gear lever position - I reckon it's a bit too high for your natural foot position. Try adjusting it down a bit, knocking it into N instead of 2 is a classic symptom. Look at the gear shifter link rod - there is a nut at each end, one is normal thread, the other is backwards thread (can't remember which is which, sorry). Slacken the locknuts (10mm spanner then you can twizzle the rod to adjust the lever height.

[Foot]

EDIT: And the loud bang into first always happens to me if road speed is above 10-15mph but revs are low (Idle or just above) try keeping the revs while changing down or change into first just before you stop.


Not a bang like backfire.. my exhaust does that quite frequently (sounds mean :batman: ) but when it's in neutral (when it shouldn't be) it then doesn't want to go down a gear and you can kinda hear the gear lever bouncing.


It sounds like two things. The clutch adjustment needs checking - do a search, this topic comes up about once a month or more. It sounds like it's dragging. The other thing to look at is the gear lever position - I reckon it's a bit too high for your natural foot position. Try adjusting it down a bit, knocking it into N instead of 2 is a classic symptom. Look at the gear shifter link rod - there is a nut at each end, one is normal thread, the other is backwards thread (can't remember which is which, sorry). Slacken the locknuts (10mm spanner then you can twizzle the rod to adjust the lever height.

I'll adjust it a little, give it a good grease and if that's no good I'll adjust the clutch.
Thank you for your help :mrgreen:

[Corny Gizmo]

sorry bang was the wrong word to use, I meant the thud then bouncing noise

[johnnyrod]

Check teh cluthc adjustment for sure. Most bikes make a bit of a racket going into first for some reason, Hondas sound like you're kicking a toolbox, to quote one org'er.

Blipping on downchange - nothing wrong with this, it's the smoother way to do it as you roughly match revs before letting the clutch out. Try riding with a pillion and you'll soon see the difference. Pull clutch in, blip throttle to pick revs up a bit, change down at the same time, let clutch out. With practice you can do it very quickly, at pretty much any engine speed.

[Foot]

I'm right in saying when you shift down or up a gear it usually changes the revs by about 1k?
So that's why when you downshift you want to blip it by about 1k?
I guess by blipping the throttle on downshifts it's gonna make the bike react as if you were in gear going along, briefly pull the clutch in then release without doing anything. Because revs stay for the most part constant.
Sound correct?

[PyroUK]

Could be too much oil too, check the level. I topped up a bit too much and it drags in 1st and gear changes in general are harder.

With the shifting, don't think about the revs. I blip up a bit (technical term) but couldn't tell you by how many revs.

As a generic and it is hard to explain in writing, pull clutch-blip-drop gear and let out clutch. The whole process should take less than a second and be done almost at the same time.

If I'm being honest you sound like you are thinking about it too much.

In terms of the clunking in to first, if you are rolling you need to match the road speed otherwise it will invariably make that horrible sound as it's the closest gearing. You have more wiggle room in the higher gears.

Cars with their synchro boxes won't physically let you change in to 1st over a certain speed for this reason.

[Bibio]

you blip on the downwshift to match the engine revs so the rear wheel does not slide or have the potential to slide. you will get used to it over time and each type of bike is different. an added bonus is that done properly it will save on tyre wear.

if you are experiencing clutch drag then i would look at the clutch cable for freeness and the wormgear for adjustment. depending on the mileage of the bike i would look at replacing the wormgear after around 30k or sooner depending on the state of it. i'm on around 25k and my wormgear is at the end of it's life.

[Foot]

Could be too much oil too, check the level. I topped up a bit too much and it drags in 1st and gear changes in general are harder.

With the shifting, don't think about the revs. I blip up a bit (technical term) but couldn't tell you by how many revs.

As a generic and it is hard to explain in writing, pull clutch-blip-drop gear and let out clutch. The whole process should take less than a second and be done almost at the same time.

If I'm being honest you sound like you are thinking about it too much.

In terms of the clunking in to first, if you are rolling you need to match the road speed otherwise it will invariably make that horrible sound as it's the closest gearing. You have more wiggle room in the higher gears.

Cars with their synchro boxes won't physically let you change in to 1st over a certain speed for this reason.

I think that tends to be when I make mistakes, when I'm focusing on exactly what I'm doing. I'm getting there haha.
So if its clunking when I'm rolling in neutral when trying to go down to first, I should really go up to second and just
put up with having the revs a little lower than usual for a short moment?

There may be a little too much oil.
On my GPZ500 it burnt threw oil so I was having to top it up maybe every 500 miles. So I expected my SV to do the
same.. but of course it's a much newer and healthier bike so it didn't. Misread the oil as well because I thought there
was barely in it (after doing a 250 mile journey) expecting the oil to be really dark and easily visible (again, the oil
on my GPZ wasn't very happy..) but the oil was changed just before I got the bike. So in fact it was just really clear
and harder to spot.

So long story short, I maybe have a little to much oil, it's right on the max line. Should I attempt to remove some?
Is there an easy way to remove some if so?



Please be patient, I am a real newby but I do learn fast. I've had a huge deal of help with my old bikes by my
stepdad, and now that I'm not living at home I'm trying to be as independent as possible!

[Bibio]

as long as there is a bubble in the window when the bike is upright then all is fine. so yes up to the F mark and DO NOT let if fall under the L mark.

[johnnyrod]

It sounds like you're geting on fine. Practice things slowly and they'll get quicker by themselves. Try to practice quickly and you'll just leanr how to do it wrong.

I guess now thinking about it that you only need to pick the revs up by around 1000 as you say. I don't really know either, I don't look. The other job of blipping the throttle is to make the revs go the right way, up not down. If you don't then you pull the clutch in the change, the engine starts to head down towards tickover, then you let the clutch out in the new (lower) gear and really the revs want to be higher than they were before. Even a rubbish blip does the job.

[Foot]

It sounds like you're geting on fine. Practice things slowly and they'll get quicker by themselves. Try to practice quickly and you'll just leanr how to do it wrong.

I guess now thinking about it that you only need to pick the revs up by around 1000 as you say. I don't really know either, I don't look. The other job of blipping the throttle is to make the revs go the right way, up not down. If you don't then you pull the clutch in the change, the engine starts to head down towards tickover, then you let the clutch out in the new (lower) gear and really the revs want to be higher than they were before. Even a rubbish blip does the job.


Yeah that all sounds good, I'm basically there with everything now and I can just focus on cornering, anticipation and learning the roads.
Still like to practise emergency stops now and then if theres an empty straight road, I like feeling the back picking up and the front almost
wanting to lock :twisted:

Next step is practising braking on an empty roundabout whilst cornering. I certainly know brakes on corners is a big no (had low speed
spills on each of my last two bikes - will not do it on my shiny new SV!), but if you have to brake then you have to brake. And it's not
impossible, just need to practise it. And again, it's a kinda nice feeling when you chose to do something unusual like that and the bike
wants to do it's own thing but you expect it. I assume the guy braked in the corner on this video, making the bike sit up. But he could've
put more weight and more countersteer to keep the bike cornering whilst he was braking - might've not turfed it! Just used a bit of the other
side of the road after passing the oncoming car.
But either way, it's always different when it's actually happening.




Sorry about the essay. I'm meant to be working but all I want to do is get out on my bike :smt026
To Bala this weekend!



My mistake.. thought I was still on the thread
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=208682
But I don't think there's many people who haven't seen that video.
Okay.
Back to work.

[PyroUK]

So if its clunking when I'm rolling in neutral when trying to go down to first, I should really go up to second and just

put up with having the revs a little lower than usual for a short moment?






We all start somewhere mate!

You can do that or just bring the revs up a bit more.

You will eventually learn what it sounds like at roughly the right rpm so it will be easier

[johnnyrod]

Can't view the vid as at work but generally turning and braking don't mix, you either turn in more if you can (i.e. if you will miss the obstruction - you can turn almost any bike tighter than you think so better than just giving up and crashing) or sit up and brake like a demon. As Ketih Code says, the front tyre is like a union worker (American reference there), you can't ask it to do two things at once and expect success.

[Foot]

Now adjusted the lever and given the whole bike a proper clean, all the grease gone. So I've regreased it too.
Should be (hopefully) better now, if not I'll try the clutch adjustment!

[johnnyrod]

You might as well check it anyway, it's a learning thing and only takes a few minutes with a screwdriver and a couple of spanners

[Foot]

You might as well check it anyway, it's a learning thing and only takes a few minutes with a screwdriver and a couple of spanners

Good point - I'll give it a shot. Going to take apart the brakes and copper grease them too at some point soon.