worse than driving with a mobile

[timwilky]

Nearly wiped out this morning as I was trying to change lanes (I am in van so limited view I can only see what is in my mirrors)

I am trying to move from RH to LH lanes in order to take a turn off, traffic coming down slip road that becomes the LH lane I need.

So I can see all the traffic on the slip road, there is a gap to my left and I am indicating, but it is starting to slow ahead so I need to make the move.

But WTF, the car at the gap, the driver isn't looking at the road and the gap I intend to use. She is looking in the vanity mirror and applying eye make up.

I have to enter the gap or miss my turn, so with an eye on the mirrors enter and a second or two later a squeal of tyres a smoke behind me as she suddenly realises I am there. In the other mirror I see the car driver that was behind me just shaking his head at her. She followed me on my exit and as I took the next right she passed on my inside looking very sheapish.

So what is worse than a mobile

makeup?
Shaving?
Reading a report/map etc?
Having a brew?

I see all of these on a regular basis OR


As in a report I read on a news website last night being on the receiving end of oral pleasure and running the red light in the excitement?

[NTECUK]

"Turning Japanese, I really think so ".
ps your need to be a suitable age to understand....

[timwilky]

Thank god I have never witnessed that. but I am sure it must happen.

[Red Herring]

I think all the time we continue to try and identify and ban specific acts as being the cause of incidents we are doomed to fail. The issue is simply that a large percentage of drivers (and riders) feel far to "safe" doing what they are doing and don't feel that it requires all of their attention. Combine that with the social trend of a lack of personal responsibility....... don't get me started!

[timwilky]

Yes, you shouldn't need to ban anything, they all get covered by the due care and attention. But specific bans stop the I didn't know defence.

Stupidity knows no bounds.

[Red Herring]

...But specific bans stop the I didn't know defence.


Hence my second paragraph. Until we start treating the "Oh I didn't know that putting my makeup on whilst joining a dual carriageway was wrong, why isn't there a law against it" excuse with the contempt it deserves we are never going to make progress. Instead we continue to adopt the approach that it isn't societies place to accept responsibility for itself but "someone else's" fault for allowing them to be so irresponsible....

[NTECUK]

The issue is simply that a large percentage of drivers (and riders) feel far to "safe" doing what they are doing and don't feel that it requires all of their attention. Combine that with the social trend of a lack of personal responsibility....... don't get me started!
Yep that's it right there.

[Spank86]

In all fairness although she blatantly shouldn't have been wearing makeup there's nothing g that says she has to give way to your desire to change lanes.

The indicator isn't a god given right to cut people up even if you will miss a turning otherwise. (I don't understand the limited view part, even vans don't have a blind spot with correctly adjusted mirrors).

[dizzyblonde]

She could have always been reading a book...


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=944982042195170&fref=nf

[maviczap]

She could have always been reading a book...


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=944982042195170&fref=nf

Easy solution to that one would be to give him a nudge off the road ;)

[Red Herring]

In all fairness although she blatantly shouldn't have been wearing makeup there's nothing g that says she has to give way to your desire to change lanes.

The indicator isn't a god given right to cut people up even if you will miss a turning otherwise. (I don't understand the limited view part, even vans don't have a blind spot with correctly adjusted mirrors).

That would rather depend on her speed relative to the vehicles ahead of her, how far they were away, and the speed difference between the traffic in the nearside/slip lane and the main carriageway. Her speed should be appropriate to the prevailing road conditions and I would suggest that when driving through a junction where there is potential for vehicles on either side to have to make lane changes the greater the speed difference the greater the risk. Yes there is a responsibility on the driver wishing to change lanes, however driving forward into a space that another driver is clearly intending to use is equally inconsiderate.

[timwilky]

In all fairness although she blatantly shouldn't have been wearing makeup there's nothing g that says she has to give way to your desire to change lanes.

The indicator isn't a god given right to cut people up even if you will miss a turning otherwise. (I don't understand the limited view part, even vans don't have a blind spot with correctly adjusted mirrors).



yes, but I didn't cut her up. I moved into any empty space to my side. When the traffic slowed down, she panicked as she discovered there was slightly less gap than last time she looked.

[Spank86]

yes, but I didn't cut her up. I moved into any empty space to my side. When the traffic slowed down, she panicked as she discovered there was slightly less gap than last time she looked.

Apologies, I was mislead by your use of "a second or two".

It's one of those units of time that always seems ridiculously short in your head but when you actually work it out it takes a lot of time and covers a lot of ground. :D

[Bibio]

you knew your turn off was coming up so you should have made an effort to be in the correct lane first so your just as bad as the makeup lady but instead you barged your way in.

lets look at this another way, if there was not a gap what would you have done?

[timwilky]

Think about this piece of road please. Perhaps my description is poor.

It is single carriageway, that becomes dual carriagway as the joining sliproad becomes the LH lane. I have no choice as I was on the existing road. I am in the RH lane by virtue of traffic joining. I want to take the next left, so I have 100 yards to get in. If not I stop in the rh lane and wait for someone to let me in which is a common occurrence.


Originally this road was built as two lanes, but because traffice could not join from the slip road when there were tail backs, they made it one lane and let the slip road traffic continue as the LH lane, this means traffic in the LH lane is often fighting to get in the RH as they do no want leave where the LH lane filters off.

Need to get a google satellite pic posted

http://www.twsoft.co.uk/sv/a59.png

[NTECUK]

Your van is it white?
Are you the fabled white van man.Did I met you on the trip up to leeds?

[timwilky]

You may have met the daughter, she borrowed it to move her stuff to/from leeds

Then again you are alive. so no chance you met the daughter, she is a nasty piece of work, her mum and I live in fear of her.

(so do the house door frames)

[Bibio]

i see your problem. i retract my statement. if it were me i would be putting my indicator on right after the merge lane to move left. i take it you need to get in the far left road (channel way) for your journey.

[timwilky]

correct, poor road design, you have obviously gone looking to get the road name

[Balky001]

Tim

you are obviously a menace :)

Agree with other comments, you can't ban everything. If people followed a couple of simple principles on being observant and courtesy (even when you are in the right!) roads would be a nicer place.

I had a chap yesterday coming towards me in a little Ka overtaking a line of parked cars on his side of the road by using my lane. I had to stop quickly as he appeared from behind the line (my lane was clear), completely obscured by the last parked car. His road position was awful as was his manners and attitude let alone his speed. I backed up a bit to give him room and he didn't even say thanks. Life is too short to get angry but I just can't understand the 'entitled' attitude he had

[NTECUK]

You may have met the daughter, she borrowed it to move her stuff to/from leeds

Then again you are alive. so no chance you met the daughter, she is a nasty piece of work, her mum and I live in fear of her.

(so do the house door frames)
No was a bloke that got the Bird,

[Jayneflakes]

I so feel your frustration coming through in this Tim, there is an arrogance in the opinion from the other driver that they can do something that ultimately is completely stupid and dangerous that puts other's lives at risk.

It must also be so disheartening to have to be in the emergency services and arrive at a collision only to discover that the mistake that caused it and hurt people was something stupid and easily avoided.

Last week I and several other people witnessed a selfish driver nearly cause an accident with an Ambulance that was on call. Rather than pull over in a safe place or continue to drive until it was safe, the car driver caused the ambulance to swerve, narrowly miss a traffic island on a junction and then brake hard to have to trundle along while the car driver looked for a parking space.

I look around at some of the people on the roads and I understand why we need so many laws. Some people are just ignorant of the power that they have to cause harm to others, while others may know but just do not care. I shake my head and move on in life hopeful that if I meet these people on the road I am wise enough to avoid the accident that they could potentially cause.

Recently I had a driver drive through a give way with out looking, causing me to brake hard and swerve. Moments later a white van driver pushed through onto a roundabout causing traffic coming from his right which included me, to brake hard and stop. I was verbally abused recently for not realising that the driver who was indicating left and slowing down before a left turn, did not in fact wish to turn left, but wanted to go straight on and had in fact left his indicator on by accident. I had pulled out and accelerated away, but he was not to be deterred and had to tell me what he thought of me.

Our roads are depressing places and sometimes wonder why I continue to ride. :rolleyes:

[SvNewbie]

Driving up the M3 yesterday I was shocked by the number of drivers who are oblivious to the fact that they should be travelling in the inside lane. Swooping deliberately from inside to outside lane and back again didn't make them realise, undertaking them did nothing.

This inevitably leaves a queue of frustrated drivers in the outside lane, driving up each other's backsides.

I can only think that the act of changing lanes occasionally to overtake slower traffic might distract them from whatever they are using to distract themselves from driving.

[DJFridge]

Hence my second paragraph. Until we start treating the "Oh I didn't know that putting my makeup on whilst joining a dual carriageway was wrong, why isn't there a law against it" excuse with the contempt it deserves we are never going to make progress. Instead we continue to adopt the approach that it isn't societies place to accept responsibility for itself but "someone else's" fault for allowing them to be so irresponsible....

This, in my very personal opinion of course, is one of the biggest dangers facing "western" society. TOTAL LACK OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANYTHING. If you do something utterly stupid, as long as there hasn't been a specific warning/law etc then it wasn't your fault. Did you scald yourself with that coffee balanced between your legs? Don't worry, sue McDonald's for not warning you it was hot. Obviously, had it been cold, you would have complained about substandard coffee. Opened a car door in the path of a cyclist? Don't worry, it's not your fault for not checking so yell at the cyclist instead for not stopping in time. Cycled across a red light and been hit by a car? No problem, prove the driver was on the phone and, suddenly, it isn't your fault anymore. It won't matter that a fully trained police pursuit driver wouldn't have been able to avoid you, it still wasn't your fault.

Basically, we have spent the last few decades allowing ourselves to become infantilised. We constantly blame other people for our own stupidity rather than putting our hand up and saying, "Ooops, sorry, my fault."

Sorry, rant over.

[Paul the 6th]

driving into, through and out of london - you could be riding along with your c*ck in your hand and no one would bat an eyelid. The other week I saw a woman reading a magazine in 20mph/stop start traffic...

Then on the m1 just north of j28 there was a guy in lane 3 cruising at 60mph with frustrated drivers tailgating him for a mile or two before undertaking (myself included)... Oh... how rude of us, he was tapping on the iPad in his lap.

[NTECUK]

Simply the most important thing is to remove the no passing on the left

[Matt-EUC]

Simply the most important thing is to remove the no passing on the left


I disagree. Firstly, because those who aren't aware that you can't just sit in lane 3 at 55 will never find out about it, shout and scream at those undertaking them and cause more accidents. Secondly, people seem to find it hard enough to look to their right before overtaking, heaven forbid they should ever have to start looking left as well. More accidents.

IIRC there was talk of making lane hogging an offence in itself. If this is the case, then most of these problems can be solved with I little education and higher police presence. The odd beating wouldn't go amiss either.

I think the biggest problem is that people just couldn't give a f*ck about anybody but themselves. Couple that with ludicrous ideas about what the Highway Code in their head says and you have a recipe for disaster.

I had a woman the other day cut in front of me while filtering. When I beeped at her she shouted "I was indicating you have to give way to me!" To which I replied "read the f*cking Highway Code you ignorant b!tch!"

I was a touch irritable that morning.

Education and enforcement of the laws already in place. Adding more laws will do the sum total of f*ck all if nobody is there to enforce them. We could pass a law saying that you can no longer walk backwards. Nobody is going to pay attention to it and nobody ever would because nobody would enforce it.


I drive the same roads all the time twice a day. If I ever see a police car it's a rarity. With such a distinct lack of presence it's no wonder nobody gives a toss.

F*ck building a railway that will save a grand total of 20minutes that gives no advantage to anyone. Spend the several BILLION on something more worth while. F*uck HS2!! Nobody needs it few people want it and it'll cause far more hassle than it'll ever solve. Simple way to think about this, we can't afford it. We are massively in debt. When you don't have the money for something, can you buy it? No. Can you afford something you don't have the money for? No. WELL DONT ****ING BUY IT THEN!!




[/rant]





Edit: by the time we've built it, it will have been obsolete for several years already.


Sent via the medium of interpretive dance.

[NTECUK]

Disagree. Passing both sides works fine in the USA.
No one gets out of there box over it.

There's hardly any traffic cars bikes to inforce the lanes

[Matt-EUC]

Disagree. Passing both sides works fine in the USA.
No one gets out of there box over it.


That's not the point I was making. I was saying, the people who are the cause of the need for this will not find out about the change in the law for the same reasons they don't know what they're doing is wrong. Also, people have appalling observational skills as it is, to make it necessary for them to increase their obs would not be a good idea.

Like I said previously, instead of changing the law to make what the idiots are doing legal. Educate the idiots or just punish them.


Passing both sides works in the US because they all know about it and expect it.


Sent via the medium of interpretive dance.

[Matt-EUC]

So basically, don't accommodate idiocy, because that makes it acceptable.

Police officers should have the power to recommend (read, force) people to do a driving awareness course for anything they feel warrants it. E.g. borderline due care and attention, borderline dangerous, general stupidity, if the person's driving could be described as "a bit dodgy" or it's clear that they passed their test through sheer dumb luck.

I can see that this could promote abuse of police powers but that could also be fixed with a few good beatings and a stint in a woman's prison.


Sent via the medium of interpretive dance.

[Spank86]

Simply the most important thing is to remove the no passing on the left

You know you are allowed to pass on the left as long as it's not dangerous.



F*ck building a railway that will save a grand total of 20minutes that gives no advantage to anyone. Spend the several BILLION on something more worth while. F*uck HS2!! Nobody needs it few people want it and it'll cause far more hassle than it'll ever solve. Simple way to think about this, we can't afford it. We are massively in debt. When you don't have the money for something, can you buy it? No. Can you afford something you don't have the money for? No. WELL DONT ****ING BUY IT THEN!!




[/rant]

A governments income/expenditure is NOT like a household budget. Capital expenditure is useful and HS2 could actually help to stimulate the economy and provide jobs. The money might be best spent elsewhere but spending the money isn't a problem.

[timwilky]

You know you are allowed to pass on the left as long as it's not dangerous.

Whilst this is true, most coppers would decide that it is worth a tug. Dangerous is such a subjective term.

[Spank86]

Whilst this is true, most coppers would decide that it is worth a tug. Dangerous is such a subjective term.

Depends how it's done.

If you move from the outside to the inside lane and go past the car at speed then back outside again they would definitely take issue.

If you toddle by in the inside lane at a reasonable speed and were in it both before and after the pass then they shouldn't and if they do pull you over you have the argument that what you are doing is SAFER than changing lanes which is inherently risky.


Plus the highway code states that you can pass on the inside in heavy traffic, and really when is traffic NOT heavy these days?

[Luckypants]

If you toddle by in the inside lane at a reasonable speed and were in it both before and after the pass then they shouldn't and if they do pull you over you have the argument that what you are doing is SAFER than changing lanes which is inherently risky.

Agreed and if I was pulled for doing the above I would argue that the copper should be giving an FPN to middle lane meanderer under the new powers introduced last year. :smt084

[Balky001]

Whilst this is true, most coppers would decide that it is worth a tug. Dangerous is such a subjective term.

So a camera might be better than a policeman in this case? :)

[Matt-EUC]

A governments income/expenditure is NOT like a household budget. Capital expenditure is useful and HS2 could actually help to stimulate the economy and provide jobs. The money might be best spent elsewhere but spending the money isn't a problem.


Regardless of the amount of jobs they claim it will have created after they've finished (22'000-50'000) I can't imagine it will have the impact on the economy they think it will.

My prediction, it will be a massive flop.


Sent via the medium of interpretive dance.

[Biker Biggles]

Agreed and if I was pulled for doing the above I would argue that the copper should be giving an FPN to middle lane meanderer under the new powers introduced last year. :smt084

Copper might do you both,especially if he was having a bad day or needed a few nicks to get his target.Whatever the rights and wrongs of it I wouldnt fancy the hassle of trying to argue it in court if a traffic cop said I was guilty.

[Spank86]

Regardless of the amount of jobs they claim it will have created after they've finished (22'000-50'000) I can't imagine it will have the impact on the economy they think it will.

My prediction, it will be a massive flop.


Sent via the medium of interpretive dance.

I seriously doubt it will have a massive long term effect, or indeed that anyone will be able to tell since we can't simultaneously build and not build it.

Just building it will have an effect, Jobs for the north. Always a good thing.