Tubeless tyre valves?

[_Stretchie_]

Firstly I would like to say a massive thanks to Wideboy and Yorkie Chris for all the help and advice so far and Gid for the giggles and help doing it.

Basically, I got a 125 which just needs tyres, a reg plate and the front brakes cleaning and bleeding then I can MOT it.

As mentioned in an earlier thread there is little-to-no information or support for the Chinese Sukida Patriot SK125-5 that I bought used. The tyre sizes are 2.75x 18 Tubed on the front and 110/90x16 tubeless on the rear and I’ve been trying to find out what my tyre choices are for getting a matched set from a known provider instead of the current no-name stuff that is old and cracked on there at the minute.

After weeks of looking and finding no answers I decided to risk it for a biscuit and get a pair of tubeless tyres from Metzeler (ME22 front and ME77 rear). I have never changed a motorbike tyre before so Wideboy and Yorkie Chris helped me out loads with advice, so I bought a set of tyre levers, rim protectors, tyre paste, balancing weights and valve tools.

Gid and mrs came over on Saturday so we had a go then, we got the rear tubeless tyre swapped fine, no big bang as it seated but it’s deffo on there and had it up to 60psi before letting some air out, but then when we got the front TUBED tyre off, I had a problem with the ‘bung’ type spare valve I had. The hole in the wheel to pass the valve through was pretty much the same diameter as the threaded valve shaft itself (A in the diagram below) so couldn’t even pull through the rubber coated part of the stem (B in diagram) let alone get the bung part (C in diagram) in place

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/Stretchie_/Stuff%20for%20posting%20KEEPERS/Valve.jpg

So I’m a bit lost, does this mean that the wheel will only take a tubed tyre?

I’ve been looking at different types of valve and there does seem to be a tubeless valve that may fit, like this one

http://www.mandp.co.uk/productinfo/506344/Tyres/Valves-and-Caps/Economy
or this one
http://www.mandp.co.uk/productinfo/568237/Tyres/Valves-and-Caps/Economy


It looks like the bottom two layers fit up to the inside of the wheel, then on the outside you put the next washer, tighten the first nut then tighten the second lock nut up to it, is this right?

I just want a decent pair of tyres on this bike because I know I’m going to be a knob and try getting my knee down on it after a while, and I don’t have the option of getting rid and buying a different bike, if I could afford that I would have just bought an old CG125 in the first place.

Thank you mighty org, I will sacrifice many virgins in your honor (if I can find any in Gloucester that is)

[NTECUK]

Both the WM and CP profiles were meant to be used with tubes and should be used with tubes.
.No one is going to say it is OK to run tubeless where there once was a tube — it’s just too great a liability exposure. As an added impediment to going tubeless on tube-type rims, the valve stem hole in the rim is larger on tubeless rims than on tube-type rims. To use a proper tubeless valve stem you have to enlarge the hole in the rim. Once you do that, I’d think you’d never be able to go back to a tube in that rim. I

[yorkie_chris]

Can't you just stick the tube back in?

[Wideboy]

I'd try chris' idea before you spend anymore money, it might inflate a bit of a funny shape but that remains to been seen. As I said the other day the only option I can think of is taking a wheel off another bike and retro fitting it or swap out the front end. It could all be done on the cheap.

I would imagine fitting a tubeless tyre in place of a tubed would just lead to it losing pressure gradually or quickly.

[_Stretchie_]

Both the WM and CP profiles were meant to be used with tubes and should be used with tubes.

Sorry dude, what is 'WM' and 'CP'?


My very first thought regarding tyres was to put on exactly what is on there already, tubed on the froned, tubeless on the rear but couldn't find a matching pair of tyres, in these (bloody stupid) sizes where the front is tubed and the rear tubeless.

The sizes alone make it hard to find a matched set of tyres, only three options really:

-Metzeler ME22 front & ME77 rear
Both of which are tubeless
-Michelin M45 front and rear
Both of which are tubed
-No name CMPO offerings(http://www.chinesemotorcyclepartsonline.co.uk/viewsubcat_31313_SK125-5.php)
Only tubed

Based on the "Get what is on there" philosophy that cuts all of these out unless I go for unmatched tyres, I don't know if that is such a problem with a smaller bike, I am guessing the profile is pretty much the same across them all????

CMPO did say that you can fit tubed or tubeless on to these wheels

I hoping the long stem tubeless valves are a goer, then will go from there. If not will have to get unmatched tyres



** EDIT **

Oh, and I MIGHT have punctured the inner tube when I put the original front tyre and tube back on, by 'might' I mean I did :)

[_Stretchie_]

Both the WM and CP profiles were meant to be used with tubes and should be used with tubes.
.No one is going to say it is OK to run tubeless where there once was a tube — it’s just too great a liability exposure. As an added impediment to going tubeless on tube-type rims, the valve stem hole in the rim is larger on tubeless rims than on tube-type rims. To use a proper tubeless valve stem you have to enlarge the hole in the rim. Once you do that, I’d think you’d never be able to go back to a tube in that rim. I

Ah haaaaa

http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/tech-corner/tubeless-tires-spoked-rims-zm0z13ndzbea.aspx#axzz3C4NZLvXe


No idea what profile my wheels are though

[NTECUK]

The letters reference to the shape of the bead seat.
Tubles types have a ridge to locate the bead and then a space were the bead seat fits in.
Some wheels this is either no ridge or too small a gap twix ridge and the edge of the rim.
The side wall can then be pushed off the rim,pop no pressure. Nasty mess.
You can probly see if you have the right shape by eye. but I don't think that the Chinese are in the habit of following international standards so check the complete circumference.
A bit of thick card as a Guage that fits a tubeless wheel be easily made up.
It is your call if you belive it will stay seated

[NTECUK]

Hears a bit on tube/tubeless.
http://www.bmwmotorcycletech.info/section6.htm
If it were me.I'd measure up
Make my own mind up on what I can see,
Check my life insurance if i was going to drill out the hole and fit them without the tube.
Years ago the Yamaha XS1100 had some with tubed and some with tubeless wheels .
They looked vastly different on the inside

[_Stretchie_]

Ha haa, I'm not going to be dicking about with the wheels.

I'm just trying to find a decent pair of tyres that I can put on this stupid bloody bike

[aesmith]

Nothing wrong with putting a tube on the front, just because the tyre is rated as Tubeless doesn't mean it's unsafe with a tube.

[NTECUK]

If you don't want to muck about, do the tube idea.
All you have to remember is that you reduce the the ratting by the next group down.
Jobs a good un.

[squirrel_hunter]

Basically, I got a 125 which just needs tyres, a reg plate and the front brakes cleaning and bleeding then I can MOT it.

I thought you bought a project bike? One that also needed:

Exhaust painting.
Sidestand switch wires tidying.
Chain and sprockets (special 5 bolt pattern rear sprocket).
Rear hub.
Mirrors.
Air box.
Service.
Straight handlebars.
De-rusting.

[_Stretchie_]

Yeah, I've been and bought two inner tubes to use on the front, (for when I break the first)

One question though, on the valve stem on both inner tubes, there is a domed washer at the base then two nuts, the one I just took off had only a domed washer and a single nut.

The internet comes up with three main different approaches as to what they are for:

1-The domed washer only goes on the stem, the stem is passed through the wheel then either:
1A-one nut only is used to lightly to secure the stem in place, the other nut is spare
1B-one nut is used to lightly to secure the stem in place, the other but is used as a lock nut to keep either the other nut or the dust cap in place
2-The domed washer goes on the stem then one of the nuts is wound down over it to the bottom of the stem. The stem is then passed through the wheel then the other nut is used to secure the stem in place.


Any opinions?

I thought you bought a project bike? One that also needed:

Exhaust painting.
Sidestand switch wires tidying.
Chain and sprockets (special 5 bolt pattern rear sprocket).
Rear hub.
Mirrors.
Air box.
Service.
Straight handlebars.
De-rusting.

I don't like you, anyway, shut up, you bought a Honda and can't even source a service kit

[NTECUK]

The tube domed washer. Pop the valve through rim, nut then 2 nd nut locking the first
The dome fits in the recess in the inside of the rim

[squirrel_hunter]

I don't like you, anyway, shut up, you bought a Honda and can't even source a service kit

Sorted. (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=2976892#post2976892)

[_Stretchie_]

Latest update in the saga:

So the rear tyre went on without an issue, and has been holding pressure for a few days now but the problem is with the front one, the tyre is a tubeless type, I was told I could run tubeless on these wheels so took a gamble, but now the tyre is off it seems more likely that the front is definitely a tubed type.

A few people and bike shop near me, that also sells these Chinese 125 motorbikes (and supported by several articles I have read) said to just run the front tyre with an inner tube even though it is a tubeless tyre.

It seems common census that you can do this as long as you downgrade the speed rating, or at least don't approach it, which it 93mph on this tyre... I have a feeling I'll be struggling to get 70mph so I am happy with this.

I got a couple of inner tubes, as I KNOW I'll end up pinching it if I only got the one. So I spent last night trying it out, but I just can't get the tyre to fit, there is about 1/4 of it that just does't seem to fit on to the bead, you can tell as the tyre wall isn't as high in that are as the rest of the tyre, at first I was thinking that maybe the tyre is just a little too small, but after several attempts, it is not always the same 1/4 of the tyre on both sides that won't seat, and also where the valve is the tyre is sitting a little too tall and you can see top of the bead.

At this point if you bend the tyre back you can see the edge of the inner tube so it looks like the inner tube is not completely in side the tyre at that point, but after lots of lubing and wrestling I got the inner tube within the tyre at the point and re inflated and it happens again. The tube is not twisted at any point, I have had my hand under one side of the tyre and had a good feel all around it and the tube is nice and smooth all around.

I might just give this one over to the garage that will be MOT'ing it, I've got the BlackBird booked in with him on Friday for the MOT also so will ask him then. I'm a bit gutted, I got the tubeless one on without any problems. All good experience too though. I'll be practicing with some spare wheels and old tyres I think.

Sorted. (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=2976892#post2976892)

Ha haa, good on you, now I REALLY WANT to get mine done so we can go to Abergavenny on them :)


And just for good measure, here are some pics I took of the rim last night (fnar fnar)

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/Stretchie_/Bikes/sukida%20Patriot/IMG_20140901_215202.jpg



http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/Stretchie_/Bikes/sukida%20Patriot/IMG_20140901_215124.jpg



http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/Stretchie_/Bikes/sukida%20Patriot/IMG_20140901_215109.jpg

[NTECUK]

Try talc on the inside of the tyre as well as the tube.
Don't forget to only have the valve loosely located in the hole when inflating.
If you trap air between the tyre tube and rim. When you ride it that air can rapidly deflate and your on your arris

[_Stretchie_]

Cheers, I tried to have the valve as loose as poss when inflating but got to have it most of the way out or my adapter won't grip it and won't inflate it.

I need a new one anyway