View Full Version : Clutch use and cornering?
Turning a corner in 2nd or 3rd. Is it acceptable or bad form to pull in the clutch to biting point to control speed, or should this only be done in 1st, and in higher gears you should reallly be changing down, maybe using back brake only?
kaivalagi
07-11-14, 08:52 AM
It's bad to use the clutch on a corner...you're best to have the right gear on entering and the throttle should be on, if you get that wrong and enter too fast use the rear brake and don;t lay off a lot of throttle, you need drive in a corner...it's an easy thing to get used to, just takes practice
I sometimes have to use the clutch at very slow speeds but that's only on my ktm which is very lumpy low down, but that's the only time it's used other than to change gear or for stop and go traffic
Here's a good site: http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/corners/
Book up some training.
It's going to be cheaper than your excess and hert alot less.
Don’t Panic
Your safest bet is to make certain you’re not going too fast when you enter the corner in the first place. If you’re in doubt, slow down even more. If you find yourself going into a curve too fast on dry pavement, don’t panic. Just countersteer more to lean harder into the curve. The more you lean, the sharper you turn. Leaning harder also scrubs off excess speed with your tires, slowing you down. You need to trust the capability of your tires; motorcycles have more traction than you might imagine.
motorcycles have more traction than you might imagine.
except when they don't, and you lowside.
SvNewbie
07-11-14, 11:05 AM
Are we're talking about 10-15mph around town kind of turns where sometimes it feels like 1st is too low but 2nd is too high?
At that speed feel free to do whatever you feel keeps the bike best under control, it's not going to hurt anything.
Faster than that and you shouldn't be thinking about using the clutch, or changing gear for that matter, in a corner.
except when they don't, and you lowside.
I'd rather say ..
I went in hot ,, scrapping the pegs I was thinking to myself .. Yes I have got this ,, then the front tucked ..
Than say ..
I thought I was not going to make the corner ,, looking at the hedge when next moment I was in it ..
I'd rather just make it round the corner.
As my old man used to say:
Slow in, fast out
Fast in, carried out
Well yes ..
And to that end all I would say is ..
"Hold your head up and look were you want to go".
But if you pull in the clutch before a proper corner .it's a bit like opening the throttle .. Especially on a V twin .
You're immediately lost a freindly engine brake ..
Like your dad installs in you .
Set it up before the turn .. Keep the bike happy .. If you have missed a mudflap lying in the road etc .. Don't look at it .. Look either side of the thing .. Your go were you look ..
Are we're talking about 10-15mph around town kind of turns where sometimes it feels like 1st is too low but 2nd is too high?
.
Partly this, yes, but creeping into elsewhere too. Maybe a product of too much London commuting and not enough spirited out of town riding.
Useful comments and a particularly good link, thanks.
johnnyrod
10-11-14, 06:29 AM
If you're finding 2nd too low and 3rd too high (or same for 1st/2nd) and your road speed is more or less okay then you can tame the torque of the lower gear by dragging the back brake. Use some back brake and keep it constant, then use the throttle as normal i.e. don't try to vary brake and throttle at the same time. Think of it a bit like riding up a steep hill in that respect.
Sorry but don't do the above. If you are doing slow speed turns.
Keep the revs up to about 1700 rpm's.
Use the clutch to feed in the power to regulate your speed.
Only use the rear brake if you are going down hill.
Only use the rear brake if you are going down hill.
Or doing slow speed riding or executing a U-turn or doing a hill-start or anywhere else where a back brake is pretty damn useful. There is no black and white on where/when you should use it. Use it "where required" and get some training/ experience so you understand where it's required and how to use it safely when it is.
Pulling your clutch in when cornering is almost always a bad idea for any number of reasons so best avoided.
In general if you find you need to "adjust" stuff mid-corner it's an indication that you didn't plan the corner correctly anything like early enough. Get everything set up while everything is upright and then when it's all lent over you just need to start adding in more power as/when you feel confident to do so. If you find yourself regularly needing to slow down mid-corner then drop your entry speed until this stops happening.
Or doing slow speed riding or executing a U-turn or doing a hill-start or anywhere else where a back brake is pretty damn useful. .
he was saying about slow speed turns ffs
" If you are doing slow speed turns."
he was saying about slow speed turns ffs
" If you are doing slow speed turns."
If you are doing a slow speed turn you may well end up slipping the clutch and dragging the back brake if the turn is slow enough to make it lumpy without a slipped clutch. You'd then keep the revs up and manage your speed with a mix of clutch slip and brake dragging.
Ah the good old rear brake! Let's re-ignite the "I never use the rear brake debate". Not sure there's been one for 2014 yet :-)
johnnyrod
11-11-14, 09:58 AM
Mid-corner clutch slipping is an MX technique, usually when you're in between first and second gears in terms of speed. On the road, the only time you should be slipping the clutch when turning is when you're manoeuvring, e.g. pulling away, which is not what the OP asked about. I know some riders who do pull away with a bit of rear brake on, I would say that with good clutch control it's unnecessary, but it's more a point of view than an absolute.
As Mark H says above, there are good odds that the planning of the corner is a bit rough - maybe going too tight, which is a classic mistake for newer riders going round T-junctions.
If there is one thing that every rider should learn, it's throttle control in a bend. In slow, out fast, in other words, set it up first, then feed the throttle gently all the way through. This is an absolute, and plenty of people have washed out the front of their bikes getting it wrong.
If anything, a lower gear is better when you are unsure about your turning. Too high a gear can tempt you to go in too quick, and if it starts to wheelspin on a slippery day, it is more likely to really spin up. A lower gear means more thrust at the tyre contact patch (so use the rear brake if required to allow you to use the throttle all the way through), but any slipping is much more controllable, and the engine isn't going to rev up as quickly if the tyre starts to let go.
yeah I know Ophic, I'm not sure we've totally kicked the **** out of the arguments about mixing tyres on an inline four when you lube the chain while riding with an open-face helmet. I mean, obvious, innit??
I if you are need of some advice then have a read and download the pdf's on the skills you want to use hear- http://www.think.norfolk.gov.uk/motorcyclists/hugger-rider-skills-downloads
Go find your local bike safe, fire bike, rospa or IAM group .
They are more than happy to help out.
wideguy
20-11-14, 09:29 PM
Turning a corner in 2nd or 3rd. Is it acceptable or bad form to pull in the clutch to biting point to control speed, or should this only be done in 1st, and in higher gears you should reallly be changing down, maybe using back brake only?
For street riding the SV650, it's nice to run the rpms just below the powerband. I like 4-6000 rpm for relaxed riding. At these rpms, the SV has very nice throttle response, and that's how you should, (for the most part) adjust your speed in corners. With the throttle. Trail braking with the front brake toward the apex is acceptable if necessary, but learning what your front tire feels like at the bars when it's starting to complain is something everybody should learn. At the track, hopefully, though I learned on the street, even though I knew about "slow in fast out" for safety.
The SV has lovely engine braking, very useful for street riding. A sort of rear brake that you control with the throttle.
Oh yes, if you've turned into a corner a bit fast, the bikes weight is transferred onto the front tire, and off the rear, which makes it much easier to slide the rear tire with the brake. A little throttle instead will even out the weight distribution and make everything feel better.
Bad practice, even worse is to change down mid corner.
I if you are need of some advice then have a read and download the pdf's on the skills you want to use hear- http://www.think.norfolk.gov.uk/motorcyclists/hugger-rider-skills-downloads
Go find your local bike safe, fire bike, rospa or IAM group .
They are more than happy to help out.
Or maybe even listen to some of the IAM Observers who post on here...
Red Herring
21-11-14, 09:17 AM
Or better still get together for a ride out with one. The IAM is a national organization with groups and observers all over the country, fairly good odds there is one local to you that also has a fleeting interest in SV's.....
andrewsmith
21-11-14, 10:12 AM
Or better still get together for a ride out with one. The IAM is a national organization with groups and observers all over the country, fairly good odds there is one local to you that also has a fleeting interest in SV's.....
Or ROSPA
Enough of them around these days
kaivalagi
21-11-14, 10:31 AM
Or do the "bike safe" course, it'll teach you all the basics right before ROSPA or IAM need to be in the picture
johnnyrod
21-11-14, 12:28 PM
Bikesafe is more about road survival skills like observation, positioning etc., at least the one I went on was. It seems they are different in all police forces though. I don't know how much IAM/RoSPA do on machine control, though I can only presume it's an integral part of it. There are days like Hopp rider training and Superbike School Advanced Rider Training courses that are just about bike control.
kaivalagi
21-11-14, 02:56 PM
True going on the material present, and maybe if you don't ask any questions...the point is their is a police rider teaching you who knows everything you need to know. Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't the same be said about ROSPA and IAM, they're based on the same handbook right?
The alternative to listening to us lot jibber jabber on about in this scenario do this, in that scenario do that. It is a little common sense driven but we're not instructors.
Red Herring
21-11-14, 06:01 PM
Bike safe is normally delivered by serving police officers on police bikes. It can be a bit of fun and an eye opener to what advanced riding can be all about, but it is delivered by coppers who are not always the best trainers and obviously it can be a lot to cram into one day.
ROSPA/IAM is usually delivered by civilian volunteers (but could include off duty police officers) via a local group. There are subtle differences between the two but all the principals are based on the same Roadcraft book so really nothing to choose between them. Contrary to popular perception 90% of advanced riding is in the brain, not how you physically ride the bike although having a rough idea of what you are doing will help! The IAM do run skills days at race tracks if you do need to develop a particular aspect of your riding in a "safe environment". It's not everybody's cup of tea, but I've yet to meet someone who regretted taking additional training.
Littlepeahead
22-11-14, 08:32 PM
Bikesafe is usually cheap and fun, I've done a couple after breaks from biking and at the very least they get you thinking about things like road positioning. For probably less than £50 including lunch you'll have a good day out. They normally send you off with lots of info about further local advanced rider training.
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