View Full Version : Alternative shock? Pointy.
stranger12
20-01-15, 10:40 PM
Hi All,
Just posted another thread about front springs and thought I should keep this as a seperate thread.
I have been looking around for a straight fit rear shock and have found a pool of them but not sure which one to buy
My sv is 2005 sv650s
so far I know 2006-7 zx14 fits my sv .
zx10 will fit but from what year
gsxr 1000 fits but from what year ? also heard it lowers the back by 5mm which is not ideal
do I need to change the spring to match my weight or leave it as it is ?
i guess all of those bikes have a heavier back and also considering I am heavy around 115kg then the spring from any of the bikes above should be just right for me whereas they were ok for average rider on the original bike.
any ideas or further thoughts?
zx10 will fit but from what year?
06-07 ZX10 shock bolts on with no cutting etc. They're identifiable by the reservoir being at 90 degrees to the shock as pictured below.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AjHPsvPWK5eycHNfdmNremNfVjFCRmN5a3VsOXo4Qn c&pli=1
Have a browse of this spreadsheet and pick one based on the best spring rate for your weight. 06-07 ZX spring rate is 8.3kg/mm. What does the race tech calculator tell you your spring rate should be for the rear?
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l524/dangunner/Mobile%20Uploads/CBD0B91C-8EF2-4909-94B9-ABE5B4B98E5D_zpsdqkudta0.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/dangunner/media/Mobile%20Uploads/CBD0B91C-8EF2-4909-94B9-ABE5B4B98E5D_zpsdqkudta0.jpg.html)
Jayneflakes
21-01-15, 12:39 PM
Another option is to buy a shock built to your needs, they do not have to be that expensive.
I bought a Pensk recently and that is beautiful in both performance and fitting. It took very little effort to fit and worked perfectly straight from the box.
For the other half's bike I purchased some YSS shocks (it is a Kwak ZRX with twin shocks) from a shop called Bike Revival (http://www.bike-revival.co.uk/monoshock.html) and they were great. The range they have in fits almost all pockets and you get full warranty and great advice. If you call them, please mention my name. ;-)
Another thing worth noting, make sure that the bearings in the rocker and swing arm are in good condition when you swap the shock. I was dismayed to discover that my lack of maintenance had created a real issue with seized and rusted bearings down there.
stranger12
21-01-15, 02:46 PM
many thanks , re column e , what is the 330mm or .. refering to ? the legnth of the shock ?
stranger12
21-01-15, 02:50 PM
this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KAWASAKI-ZZR1400-ZZR-1400-REAR-SHOCK-/271740930091?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3f4505882b
many thanks , re column e , what is the 330mm or .. refering to ? the legnth of the shock ?
Yes length from centre of top mount to bottom mount. Overall length.
As a rule you want to avoid going shorter than stock if you can as it will adversely affect the handling if you don't compensate for it elsewhere.
A slightly longer shock is fine in most cases.
stranger12
21-01-15, 02:59 PM
and stepless rebound ?
Stroke I guess it is how far the spring compresses ?
stranger12
21-01-15, 03:00 PM
I am about to buy below. The guys says it is from 2009 but it looks as if it will fit mine .
Is that correct ? the excel sheet says from 06-08. also the legnth is the same so all perfect there.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281523459263?_trksid=p2060778.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
yes it will fit but remember that the spring is 9 something so is very very stiff which is not good unless your something like 18st.
the stroke is dictated by the damper rod length not the spring. a spring is only there to support your weight and the weight of the bike and if you get the wrong spring you wont be able to set the sag properly, too stiff a spring and the shock wont budge and you would be just as well sticking a steel rod in its place, too soft a spring and the shock will blow though the stroke causing bottoming out to which people try and compensate with the comp/rebound clickers. having said that its better to have a very slightly softer spring that one that is to hard.
compression and rebound dampening (your clickers) have nothing to do with how soft or hard your shock is, it's there to control the stroke of the damper rod. and the S/H (Soft/Hard) markings are misleading they should be Fast and Slow (Fast=S and Slow=H) Fast makes the damper rod move at a faster rate while Slow makes it move at a slower rate.
spring = sag
clickers = control
the slow speed comp/rebound clickers are for chassis movement e.g. braking and cornering.
the fast speed comp clicker is for square edged bumps e.g. potholes.
suspension is only there for comfort and to keep the chassis of the bike in control and on as level a plane as possible. if for instance your front end 'pops' after letting go of the brakes then the movement is too sudden which upsets the transition entering a corner for instance. too stiff is just as bad as too soft. too stiff and the suspension will 'pack down' and then on subsequent bumps the suspension wont recover so eats away at the stroke causing bottoming out add to that the transition is too slow and you end up with a disaster.
its all a bit more complicated that that but thats the basic gist of it. there is no 'my mates' settings and the people that use these know nothing about suspension. there are however ball park settings such as 'bounce tests' to determine very basic rebound.
Seems ok according to the spreadsheeet. Double check the spring rate is right for your weight before you buy. What did the Racetech calculator tell you?
Bibio he is 18 stone mate. 115kg according to the OP
I am heavy around 115kg
stranger12
21-01-15, 08:08 PM
many thanks bibio for the time taken to explain this.
do shocks have a repairable or serviceable parts apart from the spring? I don't think so as the oil etc is all sealed . what would be the difference between the oil used in the shock and fork that the shock lasts lifetime and fork not that long
you could get an ohlins shock for your bike on ebay for just £200, I would say it's not worth even looking at the kawasaki shock...
stranger12
22-01-15, 03:31 PM
Why would you say that ? Isn't zx14 superbike so would have quality or decent shock in it ? I did purchase one for £80
you could get an ohlins shock for your bike on ebay for just £200, I would say it's not worth even looking at the kawasaki shock...
Can you find me one please..?
stranger12
24-01-15, 09:01 AM
probably it is knackered for that price. I saw few which are unknown brand but to get people to find it when they are searching , in pantheists they have written ( not ohlin ...)
cheeky
Can you find me one please..?
there was one on ebay a few days ago, sold for £200. it was a SU852, the real deal for the curvy. sure, it needs a bit of servicing, but that's the case for all second hand shocks.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191481233453
once in a while, you can find such nice things on ebay, if you keep your eyes open. I got my pointy ohlins shock for £200 as well, and that one was in mint condition, setup for my weight.
stranger12
24-01-15, 10:30 AM
by servicing , what are the serviceable parts?
you don't need any parts, unless the spring is way off your weight. by servicing I mean giving it a good clean, replacing the oil and gas, maybe a shim here and there (peanuts) and adjust the settings for your ride style. it costs around £120 at an ohlins center. should you need a new spring, you might want to search ebay for it, you get them for around £30-40.
£200 for the shock, £40 for a spring (if needed) and another £130 for servicing and you have yourself a nice ohlins setup specially for you. worth every penny if you ask me...
stranger12
24-01-15, 10:36 AM
oh so you can change the oil on rear shock?
They can be serviced/re-valved etc, yes.
stranger12
24-01-15, 10:38 AM
can it be done diy ? I can look around for guidance
nope, you need special tools to even atempt to remove the spring. do NOT do this at home, those things could literally kill you or leave you one-eyed. revalving and changing the gas/oil is something that's done at a suspension center, plenty of those all around the country.
Yeah it's not normally a diy job. Most companies offer a postal service where by you send them your shock and its comes back serviced.
stranger12
24-01-15, 10:43 AM
is it not same as cars ? I have taken the spring out and all you do is just clamp it down using those coil spring clamps .
I don't argue servicing as don't know what is involved but you can take the spring out easy
Might be worth a pm to YC, I gotta feeling he does 'em.
stranger12
24-01-15, 10:47 AM
cool , I will first fit it to see how it is and then maybe after few track days do a service or get a brand new ohlin
you don't need any parts, unless the spring is way off your weight. by servicing I mean giving it a good clean, replacing the oil and gas, maybe a shim here and there (peanuts) and adjust the settings for your ride style. it costs around £120 at an ohlins center. should you need a new spring, you might want to search ebay for it, you get them for around £30-40.
£200 for the shock, £40 for a spring (if needed) and another £130 for servicing and you have yourself a nice ohlins setup specially for you. worth every penny if you ask me...
£300+ sounds a bit salty if you can buy a decent off-the-shelf shock that'll do wonders for the bike for as little as £80. Sure, the Ohlins will be the zenith, but how many of us ride that well?
what is a "decent off-the-shelf" shock? if a shock from a totally different bike brand and segment does wonders, than the ohlins will do even more wonders without setting up/servicing. after all, you're not servicing the kawa shock before installing it, are you?
regarding ohlins (or any other top brand), I simply refuse to accept that it won't improve handling for any rider (novice or advanced) after having installed one myself. especially on a bike like the sv650, a good shock can give the rider the required stability and confidence to learn how to properly ride.
what is a "decent off-the-shelf" shock?
What I mean is a secondhand shock from a standard road bike. Somebody mentioned the fact that a shorter shock absorber would slow down your steering; that's not strictly true, if the shorter shock is better supporting your weight you'll probably find the steering better.
You could spend a bloody fortune on Ohlins kit, and undoubtedly you'd find it better, but if you follow other, more experienced peoples' advice you could get similar benefits for much less outlay. If you were chasing tenths on a good lap time I'd say Ohlins, but for the vast majority a better shock from a scrappy will do the same job.
your average rider would not be able to tell you the difference between different shocks, yes they would know from a standard emulsion shock to a fully adjustable gas shock but they could not tell you what they are feeling apart from the 'bike feels better'. there are very few people who actually understand what the clickers do never mind how to adjust them. there is also a misconception that 'the stiffer the better' when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.
i would rather have a well set up emulsion tube shock than a badly set up fully adjustable gas shock any day.
the difference between OEM shocks and after market shocks is the valving. OEM shocks are built for 'one size fits all' so tend to be a bit choppy where after market shocks are built for the rider, bike and what type of riding they do.
its not about having this shock or that shock its about being able to make use of it properly.
I'm sure there are guys out there with a lot more experience and of course there is much to say about suspension. I don't consider myself an expert, but I'm not a good weather rider, had my share of many tens of thousands of miles over the years.
the thing is, my SV always felt wobbly and unstable in turns, during acceleration etc. ... after installing the ohlins, the difference was day and night. there is absolutely no way a beginner can not benefit from these improvements and anyone who claims anything else is in denial.
sure, £200 pounds is more than £80, but for me, those are the best spent £200...
I'm glad for you, really I am. What I'm saying is you can get similar night-and-day changes for much less money, simply by tapping into the pool of advice and experience right here. That's why we join marque-specific forums, isn't it..?
without willing to get into further discussion, I simply refuse to believe that a shock from a different brand, 10 year-old supersport bike performs just as well as an ohlins made specially for the sv650.
in the end, it's all a matter of choice, I guess :)
without willing to get into further discussion, I simply refuse to believe that a shock from a different brand, 10 year-old supersport bike performs just as well as an ohlins made specially for the sv650.
in the end, it's all a matter of choice, I guess :)
an OEM shock from a different bike wont perform as well as an aftermarket one designed and built for the bike and rider but when you consider that even a basic aftermarker shock will set you back £350+ and a second hand OEM from another bike will cost £100+/- then most people will opt for the second hand OEM as they are just wanting better than the pogo stick one that is fitted to the SV. your average rider does not have the skill to push a proper aftermarket shock to its potential so in reality it's better for them to save the cash on a second hand one, add to that the SV is classed as a stepping stone bike so people dont have them for long and tend to trade up within 2 years for something better which surprise surprise has better suspension and brakes right from the start.
now having said that you get people like me who are perfectly happy not to be one of the power ranger brigade and is perfectly happy having a bike that is light and fun who will invest in upgrading the suspension and brakes as i intend to have my SV till i pop my clogs. yes i have spent a small fortune on my bike but its the bike i want and does everything i want from a bike.
without willing to get into further discussion, I simply refuse to believe that a shock from a different brand, 10 year-old supersport bike performs just as well as an ohlins made specially for the sv650.
in the end, it's all a matter of choice, I guess :)
Perhaps not, but for £200 the Ohlins ain't gonna be in great shape either...
...your average rider does not have the skill to push a proper aftermarket shock to its potential
true, but if you ask me, it's not about the 5% top performance a shock can offer, but the 95% bit that any rider can benefit from.
Perhaps not, but for £200 the Ohlins ain't gonna be in great shape either...
I was gonna describe it to you, but I'll let the pictures do the job :smt038...
So you were lucky. Now find me one please...
true, but if you ask me, it's not about the 5% top performance a shock can offer, but the 95% bit that any rider can benefit from.
I was gonna describe it to you, but I'll let the pictures do the job :smt038...
ok here is the real deal. a serviced and modified piston rear shock from a zzr14 will blow your simple 1 way ohlins out the water, why well lets say the zzr shock costs £80 for a semi decent one, you then send it away to someone who actually knows what they are doing and ask for a service an the shim stack modified to suit the sv dampening curve and a spring rate to match the weight of bike and rider. which will set you back £100 for the service and £30 for messing with the shim stack add to that £40 for a spring to match the bike and rider comes to a total of £250 for a fully 3 way shock. so for £50 more that you got your second hand ohlins you could have had a modified and serviced ZZR shock that was a looot better.
ohlins are not the last name in shocks and there are plenty better ones out there but command a high price tag.
one more thing... racing shocks have no use on the road as they are set up internally for race tracks which are smooth. what you really want is a road racing shock.
1. again, you truly make it sound like any shock from every bike fits any bike. tell all manufacturers to stop researching suspension and to make one-size-fits-all shocks, for the whole motorcycle industry. after all, it only takes a few bits worth £30 to make it all work, so why bother?
http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/44588-shock-swap-myth.html
2. maybe, but given that the majority (if not all major teams) of sbk/motogp racing teams use ohlins, I would say they must be exceptionally good. sure, there are always commercial brands out there, but no company survives that long on "being commercial" if the products are not good.
3. mine is a street model...
3. mine is a street model...
So it came off a secondhand Ducati then..?
no, it came of another sv650... but this particular shock is the street performance line from ohlins, shock made for street use. the racing version has a piggyback.
http://www.ohlins.com/Our-products-new/Motorcycle/Street-Performance-Line/Shock-absorbers/
http://www.ohlins.com/Our-products-new/Motorcycle/Products/Sport/SU-323/
no, it came of another sv650... but this particular shock is the street performance line from ohlins, shock made for street use. the racing version has a piggyback.
http://www.ohlins.com/Our-products-new/Motorcycle/Street-Performance-Line/Shock-absorbers/
http://www.ohlins.com/Our-products-new/Motorcycle/Products/Sport/SU-323/
Don't bother trying to find me a cheap one of them. I'd much rather have a cheap ZX10R shock
bother to find you one? I think you got the wrong person. anyway, my post was just to answer your question about the second hand ducati :)...
You'd have been better off with a secondhand Ducati shock. I can understand why you only paid £200 now.
stranger12
26-01-15, 08:36 PM
sorry to jump in what is the 1 way and 3 way shock ? i am lost a bit :D
got my answer, we are referring to rebound , compression and sag .
MCT and Maxton have taken care of mine, so I don't need to know this shizzle.
aesmith
27-01-15, 11:04 AM
sorry to jump in what is the 1 way and 3 way shock ? i am lost a bit :D
got my answer, we are referring to rebound , compression and sag .
Three way could refer to Rebound, Compression and High Speed Compression
MCT and Maxton have taken care of mine, so I don't need to know this shizzle.
I would've gotten a kawasaki shock for £80 if I were you... :mrgreen:
I paid £200 for the whole bike, including the suspension work. How does that Ohlins sound now..?
Rich Clarke
13-02-15, 09:23 PM
Although this thread went a bit awry... I can say I put a ZZR14 shock on my K3 and once I set the sag right with the preload its transformed the bike. I'm a big bear too, so I'd recommend them. I got mine, in pristine condition, for about £50 off ebay.
Rich
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