help me avoid panic and target fixation

[scotty217]

Any good advice to avoid panic breaking especially mid corner, and to avoid staring at where the hazard is when I'm panicking. I've got a new route home from my new job. Up until now I've been doing OK on the new route, but tonight I was ****! Damp ****ty visor, damp ****ty roads, blinding head lights, and generally pizz poor judgement on three or four corners, found me actually shouting at my self to get a grip. I new what was happening at the time, I just couldn't stop doing it, or correct myself or whatever!

Please help, cos I'm pretty hacked off at myself. I'll get over myself eventually but until then

Help

[Bibio]

yes, look where you want to go and not where you are going. when cornering look as far round the corner as you can. when approaching a corner is exactly the same but try and match your speed with what your brain is telling you about how fast you should be going.

you need to tech yourself to continue looking round the corner for the exit and ignore everything else. your bike will go where your eyes are looking.

have you had your eyes tested recently?

[Trev B]

Can't give a definitive answer but,( and I'm not an Advanced Rider,but I've been riding for 45 years).youve answered your own question in part,we've ALL been there,but no 1 is remember you are on a motorcycle,and CONCENTRATE cos it's so easy to let your mind wander when it's cold and miserable,adjust to the conditions,If you have to stop and clean the visor DO IT,don't hit the front brake with too much if any real force,use the rear brake as much as possible,look at where you want to go not where your heading or been,even if you have to give yourself a running commentary as you ride.Anyway as I said its a rotten dilemma to find your self in,we've all had heart stoppers even in the dry,ride alert,ride safe mate!!!

[L3nny]

I know it sounds a bit of a strange idea but when the weather improves a bit get yourself on a track day.

You don't have to ride fast, but practicing going around the same corners over and over, getiing a little bit quicker each time will improve your confidence in the bike no end. Pick a small track like mallory park, chat to one of the instructors and by the end of the day you'll be more confident at cornereing and have more faith in your tyres than you did before.

[DJ123]

Any good advice to avoid panic breaking especially mid corner, and to avoid staring at where the hazard is when I'm panicking. I've got a new route home from my new job. Up until now I've been doing OK on the new route, but tonight I was ****! Damp ****ty visor, damp ****ty roads, blinding head lights, and generally pizz poor judgement on three or four corners, found me actually shouting at my self to get a grip. I new what was happening at the time, I just couldn't stop doing it, or correct myself or whatever!

Please help, cos I'm pretty hacked off at myself. I'll get over myself eventually but until then

Help

Up until tonight, how has your riding been? Any areas where you always feel you could be riding better?
Can you spot the errors in your riding and what you need to change?

The Roadcraft book is good to read and pick up on things you may not already know, and things to refresh your mind.

After an off & when I had a new bike I did a Bike Safe course. That gave me confidence back with the techniques & lessons. From there riding with good, confident riders made me better (feedback, technique, skills etc being shared).

[carelesschucca]

sounds daft but you're a good step to sorting it out. I was always told the best way to stop target fixation is realising your doing it and adjusting.

I don't know what sort of riding you do (I guess its not pleasure at this time of year) but if you're out on a ride watching the vanishing point on the road will help . loosely It also helps judging speed. if you're coming into a bend and the furthest point you can see on the road is getting closer to you ease off. If its staying the same distance you can stay on a constant throttle. If its moving away from you can give it more gas.

it's all part of a process and I'm crap at explaining it which is why I never took my IAM any further, I can't teach for toffee. well not without showing things in practice.

[scotty217]

Thanks to all for the advice. I definitely need to lookup away from ten feet in front of me, and a running commentary might help my concentration. I would love to do a track day, but perhaps when the weather is better. I usually ride on my own, Dean, but I m!might give further thought to my local RoSPA group, even if its just for a more in depth critique. I am coming up for the GM in August, so you can show me in person.

Thanks all once again. Feel better now.:)

[carelesschucca]

You know come to think of it I do the commentary thing without thinking about it. Weird that someone saying it makes me think. Hey I do that...

[dean0n0]

Until you know the road take it easy, especially when it's dark and damp. Try to relax, it seems a vicious circle when things are going wrong, I always use "three deep breathes" to help my frame of mind.

[STRAMASHER]

Try using the SV's good engine braking instead of using brakes. If you are not using or worrying about using them its more time concentrating getting a safe line round the corner.

Use a lower gear ie keep in 3rd instead of 4th gently, roll off throttle. Nice smooth constant throttle round and out.

The vision thing will come with familiarisation of the route and seat time on the bike but if you slow down just a touch you will relax more and look further ahead.

Heated kit is worth every penny this time of year too.

[atassiedevil]

Slow in, fast out.
Remember to take the line that gives you the best visibilty through the corner, unless you know the road well. I tend, when checking my speed to let my eyes sweep up the road, so i've a good sense of what i am facing in terms of road surface.
Running commentry is also good, it helps organise in your mind what to do when, and helps you maintain a rythm.

[Nobbylad]

Try your local IAM group and look at a 'Skills for Life' course. They're very good value and will help a lot.

[johnnyrod]

Building confidence is a long game so make sure you understand there isn't a quick fix. My personal demon is near-total lack of trust in the tyres when it's vaguely cold or wet, but I'm working on it!

Training is good, for anyone. The Bikesafe I did didn't talk much about machine control but was more about road riding, but IAM/RoSPA will do more on this. Alternatively there are places that train this e.g. Superbike School ART course.

Target fixation is a fairly common problem, some people define it as not looking at all of the near, middle and far distances, just fixating on one, so keep your eyes moving. A good exercise (Keith Code calls it the two-step) is about shifting your vision. Say you are entering a bend and you're looking at the apex, because that's where you're going (there is a strong tendency to go where you're looking as well). At some point you have to stop looking at that and look at your next point e.g. the corner exit, or some other feature. You do this when the first reference point (corner apex) isn't useful any more - it's getting too close to you and now distracting you instead of leading you. With a little practice you realise that you can look away from the first point to the second a lot earlier than you are, without losing your sense of what is around you. Another one they do is called wide vision, which is practising using your peripheral vision more, not to see particular things, but to get you out of the habit of tunnel vision.

Good throttle control will give you confidence, this is what's meant by slow in, fast out. If in doubt go a bit slower and wider, and use a lower gear if you can't decide between two (you won't go in too fast and and rear wheelspin is less likely to get out of hand). Once you're turned in, pick the throttle up gently and drive all the way through the bend. As a technique it gives you more grip at the front, which is what you need, as minor slips at the back can sort themselves out. Chopping the throttle mid-corner is bad, but if you're coming in a bit slower then there's no need (you have to tell yourself this).

Bit long so sorry but maybe something in there that can help.

[Corny Gizmo]

Twist of the wrist 2. Watch it, it has some brilliant tips and advice, horrific acting though.

Target fixation is a difficult thing to overcome as (to me at least) it feels like you are ignoring the road and whats going on immediately around you to look through the turn, and that just feels wrong. But as soon as you do it, you realise why it is the correct way.

Not a very good explanation sorry :/

[Heorot]

I read somewhere that F1 drivers don't look at the corner that they 're entering but at the next corner. Their minds remember the corner they are in.

[Spank86]

Target fixation: only advice. Can give is find something else to focus your vision on.

The human brain is very bad at NOT looking at something try not to look and you'll stare, but give it a definite something else to stare at, preferably something in the direction of safety and you can achieve the same effect.

[daveangel]

A bit of advice that was invaluble to me was from Alan Warner, one of the privateers racing the TT for the love of it on the second 'On Bike TT' video 20 years ago. 'Always look on the inside of the corner and it'll go round', also smoothly does it with throttle and brakes.

[stuR]

IAM bike club would be a winner here...gets you out on lots of different roads and you get feedback to improve on

[scotty217]

Loads more great advice, thanks guys. Is there a difference between IAM and RoSPA riding groups? There is a local RoSPA group that seems more active than the IAM group around here.

[orose]

Plenty of good advice here already, but that's never stopped me before...

To pick up on what Heorot said - if you're still trying to work out what to do in a bend while you're in it, you're probably going to be in trouble. By the time you arrive at the turn-in point, you should really have your approach in place as far as you can see to be clear.

On target fixation, I'd add to what johnnyrod said - it's a caveman reaction (from when you needed to keep your eye on what the sabre tooth tiger was doing, so you didn't get eaten), so you've got to try and train yourself into an approach which works better on the roads.

IAM and RoSPA aren't too different in most of their approach - they both aim to give you a grounding in terms of what Roadcraft outlines. Which suits you is more about what the benefits will be.

[fizzwheel]

Moved to bike talk

[NTECUK]

http://www.think.norfolk.gov.uk/downloads.asp?i=156
Have a read
More hear.
http://www.think.norfolk.gov.uk/motorcyclists/hugger-rider-skills-downloads

[carelesschucca]

Top post from NTECUK.

It's good to read that kind of stuff again. Thanks

[Dave20046]

Shouting at yourself - could be part of the issue. Recognising it=good ...but relax

[scotty217]

Ntec, good post - dumped them all onto my tablet.

Shouting at myself - yeah, good point. Wasn't in the best of moods that night, if I remember.
Started talking to myself as well now!😕 But seriously, I tried giving myself a running commentary, and I think it works for me quite well. Just got to try forming a habit of it.

I'm also looking into the local IAM group, but this month will be a pretty lean one, so if I join it will be in march.

Thanks to all for the great advice, I am taking it all in, and finding out what works for me.

[scotty217]

Ntec thanks for those, dumped them all onto my tablet

Shouting at myself - yeah good point, I wasn't in the best of moods if I remember.

I've started talking to myself now as well😕 seriously I tried giving myself a running commentary. Seemed to work OK, although I feel a bit daft doing it. Going to try making a habit of it.

I've been looking into my local IAM group also, but this month is going to be pretty leanso may wait til next month to join ( Suzie's road tax due too, and yes I know its sad I call my bike Suzie but I don't care!!)

Thanks for all the great advice, I'm taking it all in and seeing what works for me, but appreciate it all.

[NTECUK]

Iam or ROSPA are good for hoaning skills.
But if you get the basic principles pat. On the bike it's all your need.
The police motorcycle hand book is another good read

[SIII]

Did IAM's for 3 observed rides and absolutely hated it. Packed it in. Miserable gets only gave me 1/2 my money back, not impressed.

Maybe of use to some , but I hated the overthinking of every situation and rigid set of rules they try to enforce. Even on corners where no advantage is to be gained - I was told I had to ride on the nearside of a right hand bend !!! Not my idea of fun, which so happens is the main reason I ride a bike.

I am sure it suits a lot of people, but really wasn't for me. I will stick to what I have learnt from various source and in particular the Roadcraft / Bikesafe scheme. A far better approach to bike riding than the regimented and restrictive style of IAM's.

[NTECUK]

Im doing Rospa. It's £15 a year and bung the observer his petrol money.
They don't sacrifice position for safety. This includes ridding in the gutter, poop and debris. So who took you is a nob.

It's pretty much what the links I provided anyway.
Ride for yourself is very important.

[SIII]

Pinched your link for Norfolk bike info pages and posted it up on our D&G group, good advice and lots of sense. Follows Bikesafe / roadcraft without getting pedantic, which is what I found IAM's.

No RoSPA group around here :-(

[Fordward]

The fix to this is simple.


Take your time!


Just slow down!


Give yourself more room for error, and you won't give yourself any reason to panic.


As your confidence builds you'll speed up again, and you'll surpass the speeds that are making you panic just now.

[NTECUK]

As long as you get the right guidance. The actual bit of papers worth jack.
I know two iam lot who only play by iam rules on the day test or group rides with there groups.
Not much point in that is thier.
Ok I'm no saint but I'm not a muppet.(most of the time. But Ive messed up too).

[Nobbylad]

I found the IAM was peppered with old gimmers giving it the full on pedant treatment and almost ruined it for me. After speaking to the organisers, it became clear that some of the assessors are there just to be the big I am.

I got a lot from the more pragmatic assessors and overall I'd say the skills for life course at £149 was great value. They're really pushing for younger people to hone their skills and get towards assessor status themselves. I think they realise the cantankerous oldies are pushing people away with their attitudes.

Good luck whatever you do. It's not so much about the advanced riding system you go for (let's face it, they're all based on good theory and road craft), it's more about the instructors/assessors.

[Bibio]

one thing i will add is that all the reading in the world wont make you a good rider. most of these books tell you how to ride, what lines to take, what to look out for yada yada but very very few of them tell you throttle control and the main one they cant tell you about is feel. only very good instructors can assess you for an hour and pick up on your faults then get you to rectify them and there are very few advanced riding instructors out there that can, most like to think they can.

what Fordward says is basically good advice.

one of the biggest mistakes i see people make and its amazing just how many think its the norm is coasting into a corner then only opening the throttle on the exit. when in fact you should have a steady power on till you can see the exit then roll on the power. try to match speed with the angle of the corner before you get to the entry point then tip the bike in then wait till you can see the exit and roll on the power to take you out. never ever have a shut throttle entry/mid corner. one of the other mistakes i see all the time is people counter leaning to the bike. if your going to take a right corner then slightly push your right shoulder towards the bar end and stay in that position till your upright again this stops you counter leaning.

one more thing, your arms, never ride with straight arms always bend the elbows and try to get your forearms as parallel to the road surface as possible. this takes the weight from your wrists.


oohh and never choke the chicken....

[carelesschucca]

oohh and never choke the chicken....

I do that all the time only thing its done is affect my eyesight.

As for the arms thing I've always been told that you should be able to flap your elbows up and down like you're trying to take off, if you can't then your posture is incorrect.

One thing though, there's been a lot of information given in this thread its a lot to take in, maybe I'm a dumbass but when I've been trying to alter the way I ride massively I try to concentrate one one change at a time. My brain can't cope if I try to remember lots of things while I'm concentrating on the road.

[ophic]

...try to get your forearms as parallel to the road surface as possible. this takes the weight from your wrists.
and also slides better, if it all goes pear shaped :lol: