View Full Version : 125cc or das?
Have just done my cbt and am going to go on to do my das but I wonder if it is a good idea to get a 125 first or am I going to better off continuing with das as I will then be on the road on my own with more experience?
go das and learn while you ride.. I did a DAS with a restriction for 2 years and got the sv when it was up. Seems to me that a 125 is just prolonging the agony :)
Biker Biggles
10-02-15, 08:33 PM
Agree.Get the test as soon as.You will need the licence and you will learn a lot getting it.
This exactly what I was thinking but also wondered if I was finding any reason to buy an sv before learning the ropes on a 125
Disagree, get a 125 and run around for a few months. Get your roadcraft up to speed before you get the thrill of speed.
Yep I agree with SIII !!!
for a change i dont agree with SIII. its all about passing a test now and not how capable you are at riding. pay the money use their bike and insurance and keep the cash you would have spent on your 125 for the bigger bike. you can develop bad habits by yourself using your 125 day by day, doing a DAS will not let you have these bad habits as you will be fresh from training.
once you pass your test then you learn how to ride a bike properly.
timwilky
11-02-15, 07:18 AM
for a change i dont agree with SIII. its all about passing a test now and not how capable you are at riding. pay the money use their bike and insurance and keep the cash you would have spent on your 125 for the bigger bike. you can develop bad habits by yourself using your 125 day by day, doing a DAS will not let you have these bad habits as you will be fresh from training.
once you pass your test then you learn how to ride a bike properly.
+1
To be honest the faf of being stuck with a 125 and struggling to shift it on doesn't appeal. The downside of living in rural Herefordshire is that I have to travel miles to find a bike and nobody is ever prepared to travel to me.
On with the theory test then!
carelesschucca
11-02-15, 08:42 AM
Good choice ;-) Once you've got your licence you've got it. You can go your own way to improving. I was lucky I got forced into doing the IAM within a year of passing my test, not that many on here would believe it, but the principles I learned have saved me numerous times. Most of all get out there and enjoy the whole experience because riding is the best.
And rural is good, quieter roads and you're right next to Wales.
I can only really quote from personal experience. I found the 125 plenty enough to start with.
I was able to ride around for 6 months, pottering about quiet lanes, by myself, getting used to all the potential hazards and eejits in their cars. There is a bend on the way home from my work, that scared me on the 125, now I don't even bother with it and I'm doing twice the speed I was on the 125.
I have seen local lads go straight to 600 / 650 and even 1000's and to be honest a lot of them scare me. They have the speed to keep up with experienced riders but not the skills to deal with unforeseen hazards. Tightening bends, tractors and gravel, are the common ones I have seen catch them out.
I am getting hesitant to lead rides with newbies, as after a DAS, they think they are capable, but have no awareness of road positioning, a particular problem, that is not really covered enough in the DAS training or test.
If you do go direct, get on a bikesafe course and read the police roadcraft book.
Just my own opinion.
My motorbike training place teach the SAS in Hereford and we're very good on my cbt. Far better than the first CBT I did at a place that has since gone out of business. I like to think that at 35/36 and driving for a long time now I won't be too lairy when I pass.
It's not about being lairy, it's about building up. SV's might not be the quickest bikes, but will get into trouble pretty quick, if you are not careful.
My point is, not that the sv is too big, or your not man enough, it's just I think, it is a good learning curve.
I am glad I spent 9 months tootling about the countryside at a relatively sedate pace, but there were still a couple of occasions where I misread the road and ended up in the verge.
Whichever way you go, enjoy and hope you get as much pleasure as I do.
I agree with SIII. At age 62 I had over 40 years of driving cars from bangers up to my current car, an Impreza Turbo. I decided to start with a 125 and discovered that riding a bike is nothing like driving a car. At first was scared at speeds over 40. I commuted daily, even in winter before taking lessons on a 600 and going the DAS route. I would not have been safe going straight from a car to my SV.
I suppose everyone is different, can say I found a 125 scary though.
Corny Gizmo
12-02-15, 11:27 AM
I am part of the "get a 125cc first" camp, I did it and I believe that you can learn a lot more when you are not capable of stupid speeds.
I rode around for a year on a 125, on my first lesson for my big boy licence I was told to get my tests booked, 2 lessons and 2 tests and I was done, I doubt it would have been that easy if I went straight to a big bike.
I suppose everyone is different, can say I found a 125 scary though.
Why?
Motorbikes are scary, I remember how vulnerable I felt on my CBT, and the first time out on my VT125, I was sh*tting bricks. The guy from the shop just let me ride away, how mad was that !!!
Was meant to say Can't say I found a 125 scary.
Nutsinatin
12-02-15, 08:23 PM
I spent a year on a 125 first and I have to say, first ride on the CBT I was so high on adrenaline I couldn't stop smiling. Even the first couple of rides on my own 125 were the same, but once the initial euphoria wore off I was nervous for the first month until I built up my confidence (commuting daily), then I got too confident and crashed after three months (2 days before my MOD2), then built my confidence back up and was much more sensible for it.
After a year I moved up to my first SV, that was terrifying. The suspension was (comparatively) rock hard, the riding position was so far over the front wheel, it was loud and there was more power and braking than I knew what to do with, and it weighed a ton! I was slower on the SV for about two months as I pretty much had to learn to ride again. However without my previous experience I'm pretty sure it would have been even worse and I would have been down the road at least once.
So it's perfectly doable to jump straight on an SV, but 125's do provide valuable experience in riding fundamentals and are much cheaper to repair. I sold my 125 to my girlfriend and still take it for the occasional blast, other than the motorways it's still not that slow and it's quite a blast to try and carry the corner speed, although when I was on it all I wanted was a bigger faster bike. I didn't appreciate it until I went back down to it. I'm now on my second SV after it was written off by a car, but after 3 years and 50,000 miles I'm still learning. Not trying to put you off or anything, just telling you how I found it, not quite as glamorous as I like to tell all non bikers it is!
I'm feeling like I should get out and use my CBT after all the good comments on here. Have to admit my motorcycle training place did say in an ideal world all learners would ride about on a125 if only for a few months.
I'm really drawn to a yamaha yzf r125, and thoughts?
ChrisCurvyS
12-02-15, 10:14 PM
They look like a big bike which may help you get a little respect from other road users.
I can see this argument from both sides - when I had my125 I had lots of scares going into corners but that was more because I didn't understand how bikes corner and that wasn't explained in my DAS - I learned it afterwards.
You can get yourself into trouble on an SV but unlike my current bike (SV1000) in the dry at least you don't need to worry about spinning up the rear simply by too much throttle exiting a corner.
TheRamJam
13-02-15, 09:37 AM
I'm feeling like I should get out and use my CBT after all the good comments on here. Have to admit my motorcycle training place did say in an ideal world all learners would ride about on a125 if only for a few months.
I'm really drawn to a yamaha yzf r125, and thoughts?
Why spend 4k+ on a new YZF when you can buy a brand new SV for 4k.
I say go for the DAS course, you wont regret it. I did the DAS straight after my CBT. I went from a CG125 to a CB500. In my opinion the bigger bike was easier to ride and handled so much better. Also a bigger bike has more presence on the road. I tend to see a lot of cage drivers cutting people up on their little learner bike as they think they can just bully them out the way.
Save your money, do the DAS and buy a bigger bike. If your still nervous on the road then maybe enroll in your local bike safe scheme or some IAM training to improve your riding.
Corny Gizmo
13-02-15, 09:54 AM
yzf 125 is a waste of money mate, get yourself a ybr 125 instead, smooth, reliable and fun had one for a few months as a rental while my lexmoto was written off.
You dont wanna spend more than a grand if you are only keeping it for a few months, its just a stepping stone.
Oh I wouldn't be buying new. My idea is that I can get out now and really master junctions and observations and get them to become second nature along with other things without the weight and power to cause problems.
Biker Biggles
13-02-15, 11:32 AM
Why spend 4k+ on a new YZF when you can buy a brand new SV for 4k.
I say go for the DAS course, you wont regret it. I did the DAS straight after my CBT. I went from a CG125 to a CB500. In my opinion the bigger bike was easier to ride and handled so much better. Also a bigger bike has more presence on the road. I tend to see a lot of cage drivers cutting people up on their little learner bike as they think they can just bully them out the way.
Save your money, do the DAS and buy a bigger bike. If your still nervous on the road then maybe enroll in your local bike safe scheme or some IAM training to improve your riding.
Absolutely.Its a no brainer,get the test done first,then you have options.You are already experienced on the roads generally so what you need is bike specific training and DAS will put you on the way to that.Bikesafe and or further training can follow but you really need a "proper" bike to benefit from it.Also much cheaper in the long run to just buy the one bike and keep it.
There was me thinking I was doing the sensible thing by working my way up. It surely can be a bad idea though? The slow route for sure but I feel it would be safer
timwilky
13-02-15, 12:48 PM
Riding a 125 on L plates will only lead to you developing bad habits that need to be corrected before your test.
Test is the goal, only after passing do you learn to ride. So aim high. Do the DAS, and then buy a bike without any pressure whilst you wait to find the right one.
you have to remember riding schools are set up to take you from never having ridden to having a licence over a couple of days. Their courses are structured. riding on your own or with friends is only going to make their and your lives more difficult.
Oh I wouldn't be buying new. My idea is that I can get out now and really master junctions and observations and get them to become second nature along with other things without the weight and power to cause problems.
Sounds very sensible to me. There are two sides to this coin, and whichever you choose, take your time and enjoy it.
If you are feeling a bit hesitant and by asking this question, I think you are, maybe best to go 125 and make sure this is what you want to do.
Go with your heart and get a 125. Maybe after a few months on a cheap 125 you decide its not for you, you haven't got time, etc. You can sell the 125 and get most of your money back. No refunds from DAS training, which ain't cheap.
Or you love it and have a 125 to chop in for an SV650 once DAS is completed. I made money on my 125 !!! Bought cheap and traded in for a brand new SV.
Matt-EUC
14-02-15, 12:06 AM
It sounds like you've made up your mind already. I learned an awful lot on my cbr125 and I really think it helped me.
It does feel bloody weird going from one to the other though!
I think I have matt, just feel like getting out and doing a bit of practicing what I learnt on my cbt before and during doing my das.
Cbr, yzf? Any other nice looking 125s I should consider?
Matt-EUC
14-02-15, 03:12 PM
Varadero if you're a bit taller maybe.
Matt-EUC
14-02-15, 03:27 PM
There's also the ktm duke, the aprilia and the Honda msx if you're 3' tall.
The varedaro and vt125 shadow are probably the best of the 125's.
They are full sized frames and the twin has a little more torque for hauling a full sized adult.
They're a bit dearer but you'll get back what you pay for it.
20 years away from biking. done the DAS had the SV delivered and never looked back. as i keep telling one of my mates 'its all to do with the control of the right hand'. you can get yourself into as much trouble on a 125 as you can on a thou, its up to YOU how you ride the bike.
why is the SV such a popular first big bike? coz its cheep, it bloody darn good and very forgiving of mistakes. its also narrow so feels small and nimble which it is.
go the 125 route if you like but all you are doing is wasting your time and money not to mention when you go to swap your insurance over after 6 months you will get shafted.
pay the money, do the course, pass your test... the world's your oyster.
He's already decided bibs. How waste of money, insurance is transferred to big bike, buy a good 125 and you'll get your money back. He's admitted he lacks confidence, so probably best to start small and no scare himself.
nowt stopping him/her buying a 125 after his/her test. just get the bloody test done. lets face it the CBT is a fekin joke, go round these cones then out on the road for an hour and we will let you out into the wide world alone. is that really going to build confidence....
at least with doing the DAS he/she is going to get some extra training and on a bigger bike to be able to pass his/her test which to me will give a lot more confidence than being chucked out on the open roads to fend for his/her self.
Matt-EUC
14-02-15, 05:24 PM
I'm torn between the two. I suggest you do both.
Take your DAS and buy a 125 to ride whilst you're training. If by the end, you feel you need more power, chop the 125 in for an SV.
Chances are though, you'll ride the 125 for a few months until the weather gets better and you get more confident.
TicklinJock
14-02-15, 06:12 PM
I had a 125 "superdream" back in the day - A very long absence - then bought an SV650. I did my CBT with a view to going straight to DAS. After the first few lessons on a CB500 I reckoned I needed to get a 125 to get more practice in. My trainer talked me out of it by telling me I would learn "bad habits" and it was much harder for him to get me to "un-learn" them. After several more lessons and I had become used to the cb500, and the 125 idea went away.
Biker Biggles
14-02-15, 08:18 PM
He's already decided bibs. How waste of money, insurance is transferred to big bike, buy a good 125 and you'll get your money back. He's admitted he lacks confidence, so probably best to start small and no scare himself.
Many insurance policies wont swop from a 125 to a 650 without you having to cancel the policy (and lose money on the "refund")and start a new one thereby failing to have the first one for a year and getting no NCB for it.Lose /lose and a well known money spinner in the insurance industry.You might get your money back on the 125 when selling it or you might not depending on how good a bike dealer you are.The confidence thing is a personal issue but the sv650 is a learner friendly bike which handles well enough and has a low revving torkey engine which is much more forgiving than a tiddler.As long as you have a bit of sense the bike is ideal.If you dont have that sense you will come a cropper whatever you are on.
Geodude
14-02-15, 08:28 PM
DAS, big bike never look back :thumleft: Up to you whatever you choose. Do what makes 'you' happy never mind anyone else.
xGx
So much sound advice, here's what I'm going to do. Get my theory test out of the way then book a lesson or two and see how it goes and make a decision from there. The insurance thing is something I had wondered about too. I can't get away from the fact and reason I'm asking questions on this forum - I like the look of sv650s and the v twin sound.
Consider this case closed until I've done the above
Hi Dom, I'm a bit late to the party here but I've just read through this thread.
Last year I decided I wanted to ride a motorbike but wasn't sure which way to go about it either.
I ended up doing the CBT and then deciding not to waste money on a 125 which I was convinced I would be bored of within a matter of months. I passed my theory and then booked my DAS.
From a safety point of view riding a big bike after a DAS course and passing your tests seemed much better than 1 days 'basic' training and then being let loose on the roads on a 125 (with only half an idea of what you are doing). I was definitely sold by the idea of having days of professional training before going out on my own.
I also really wanted an SV as my first bike and so the DAS seemed the logical option for me.
I did my CBT in April
Started DAS in September (Delay due to going away over the summer) and passed my mod 2 at the end of October.
Bought a 2009 SV650 from a dealer with 5k on the clock for just under £3000
with my first years insurance with Bennetts costing £500
Your situation sounds similar to mine so hopefully this can help you make a decision.
I've now covered 500 miles on the bike so far and every one of those miles have been incident free... I am of course constantly aware that the bike is still capable of far more than I am so I have to be gentle with the controls... I definitely feel like I am growing into it now though and am looking forward to the summer.
Here's my pride and joy after a cleaning session yesterday (Sorry for showing off)
http://i.imgur.com/4xed5ezl.jpg
Biker Biggles
09-03-15, 11:32 AM
Hi Dom, I'm a bit late to the party here but I've just read through this thread.
Last year I decided I wanted to ride a motorbike but wasn't sure which way to go about it either.
I ended up doing the CBT and then deciding not to waste money on a 125 which I was convinced I would be bored of within a matter of months. I passed my theory and then booked my DAS.
From a safety point of view riding a big bike after a DAS course and passing your tests seemed much better than 1 days 'basic' training and then being let loose on the roads on a 125 (with only half an idea of what you are doing). I was definitely sold by the idea of having days of professional training before going out on my own.
I also really wanted an SV as my first bike and so the DAS seemed the logical option for me.
I did my CBT in April
Started DAS in September (Delay due to going away over the summer) and passed my mod 2 at the end of October.
Bought a 2009 SV650 from a dealer with 5k on the clock for just under £3000
with my first years insurance with Bennetts costing £500
Your situation sounds similar to mine so hopefully this can help you make a decision.
I've now covered 500 miles on the bike so far and every one of those miles have been incident free... I am of course constantly aware that the bike is still capable of far more than I am so I have to be gentle with the controls... I definitely feel like I am growing into it now though and am looking forward to the summer.
Here's my pride and joy after a cleaning session yesterday (Sorry for showing off)
http://i.imgur.com/4xed5ezl.jpg
Nice.With a "proper" bike and a few miles experience I suggest you are at an ideal time to do a bikesafe day.:thumright:
It's funny you say that... I was looking into those the other week. Kent police don't seem to do them so I've got a choice between Sussex or South London.
I was also looking at the local IAM Group as well because I would definitely like to continue my training
Which would you recommend doing first?
Matt-EUC
09-03-15, 02:04 PM
It's entirely up to you, it makes no odds which you do first.
Biker Biggles
09-03-15, 02:35 PM
Bikesafe is just one day and worth doing first.Further training is more of a long term thing.
Too late folks I've just got a Yzf r125 2011 on 4983 miles in white/black. Full service history and in very tidy condition for £1900. Plan is to get out on it this summer and then start das later in the year when I've got a better grasp of basic bike riding.
Matt-EUC
10-03-15, 07:29 PM
Good for you.
I will say though, that you'll be wanting to do your das after about three months of riding.
That's not a suggestion, it's a prediction. You WILL get bored.
Corny Gizmo
11-03-15, 10:58 AM
If you dont get bored, you will grow an irrational hatred for L plates. Stock up on them mate
Matt-EUC
11-03-15, 10:59 AM
I managed to lose about 4!
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