View Full Version : Cleaning out the rear shock and linkages
theenglishman
15-02-15, 12:45 PM
A fair few of the second hand SV's I've looked at have had really solid rears. Is cleaning out the linkages/shock refurb/replace a big issue on the SV? Or a common problem? And is it a big job sorting this out?
The bikes I've looked at have all been 8+ years old, so I guess it's fairly common. Or have I been unlucky?
carelesschucca
15-02-15, 12:53 PM
It's just the age of the bikes but its a fairly simple job* if you can get the weight off the back of the bike, its then easy to strip them down and clean it all or replace parts.
*must be simple, I did it myself and I'm a chimp
prisspringle
15-02-15, 01:38 PM
whats the best way to take the weight off the back end of the bike? lift it from above or a jack under the engine?
theenglishman
15-02-15, 01:41 PM
I got a £40 engine lifter from Lidl's. It's not so much 'best', it's what have you got?
carelesschucca
15-02-15, 01:44 PM
Erm, I was a bad bad boy. I put the bike on paddock stands (front go's into the bottom of the yoke) I then used ratchet straps on the subframe to hold the bike steady and just dropped the back paddock stand out. Its probably not the safest way to do it but the bike stayed up and I worked away quite happily. TBH its probably madness but It worked for me. other way is get yourself an ABBA Stand or the like.
whats the best way to take the weight off the back end of the bike? lift it from above or a jack under the engine?
ABBA stand with the swingarm removal bobbins. yes they are expensive but they are the best paddock stand on the market by a loooong way. once you use one you will never ever go back to a normal wobbly stand.
ABBA also do a front lift attachment which is rather good.
£174.30 delivered for the entire ABBA stand system which includes swingarm removal and front lift attachment. dont bother with the standard fitting kit as the swingarm removal bobbins do the job. i leave these on permanently.
sounds a lot but its the kind of stand you will have for a lifetime and every time you do use it you will thank yourself for getting it.
oohh and if the rear linkage bearings are not working right its a sure bet that they are rusted solid which is an expensive job. most people dont even think about greasing the swingarm and linkage bearings when they get the bike so it never gets done and i would say 90+% of SV's out there have shot bearings.
TicklinJock
15-02-15, 03:20 PM
When I did mine, I lifted the rear with a paddock stand, flipped the rider footpegs up the other way and dropped onto axle stands. Put a bungee round the front brake lever.
I also put a ratchet strap to the roof trusses "justincase" but it wasn't really taking part.
ABBA stand with the swingarm removal bobbins. yes they are expensive but they are the best paddock stand on the market by a loooong way. once you use one you will never ever go back to a normal wobbly stand.
ABBA also do a front lift attachment which is rather good.
£174.30 delivered for the entire ABBA stand system which includes swingarm removal and front lift attachment. dont bother with the standard fitting kit as the swingarm removal bobbins do the job. i leave these on permanently.
sounds a lot but its the kind of stand you will have for a lifetime and every time you do use it you will thank yourself for getting it.
This^
Sir Trev
15-02-15, 05:05 PM
I managed it with four bolts in the garage rafters, using straps to the rear subframe taking the weight and (separately) to the handlebars to steady it all. Worked well enough but If I was doing it again I would defo go for an Abba. Stripped and greased my Curvy's linkages at about five years old and they were not too bad - pretty dry and getting crusty so I got to them in time. For an older bike you may need to use more force on I would not want to use the straps method as it's a bit wobbly.
theenglishman
15-02-15, 05:26 PM
Well that's what I'm seeing.
Expensive as in time-consuming? I guess it's just patiently drifting out the old ones. Does that require anything more than being careful and patiently tapping them out. Other than drifts it doesn't need any special tooling or clamps does it? I'm assuming you remove the whole linkage assemblies and work on them in a vice on a workbench.
[edit] looks straight forward enough - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxVVa69Rw78
Jayneflakes
16-02-15, 01:37 PM
It is a time consuming job if you work slowly like I do, but then I stripped the whole back end down. I supported the bike on a wooden block held between two axle stands and strapped the whole lot down solidly before starting any work.
There are four bearings in the rocker and they were ruined in my K3, so needed replacing. While I did this I also fitted a grease nipple to the rocker and can now fill with grease easily.
Don't forget that there are also a further two bearings in the swing arm where the dog bones mount. Again on my bike these were ruined and once again I fitted a grease nipple to make servicing even easier.
If you are going to strip down these bearings, it is well worth stripping out the swing arm, I found with mine I caught them just in time. There was the first signs of water penetration of the bearing and the grease had all but gone.
After a complete refresh and new bearings the back end she now feels beautifully smooth and with a new shock too, the bike is transformed. This is the part of my build thread (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=157076&page=17) where I go into the details of the rocker rebuild if you are interested.
theenglishman
16-02-15, 01:48 PM
Thanks for that - and yes, I'm a terribly slow worker.
And yes - If you've started getting the back end off you may as well go the whole hog and do as much as possible.
CodeJACK
16-02-15, 07:54 PM
It is a time consuming job if you work slowly like I do, but then I stripped the whole back end down. I supported the bike on a wooden block held between two axle stands and strapped the whole lot down solidly before starting any work.
There are four bearings in the rocker and they were ruined in my K3, so needed replacing. While I did this I also fitted a grease nipple to the rocker and can now fill with grease easily.
Don't forget that there are also a further two bearings in the swing arm where the dog bones mount. Again on my bike these were ruined and once again I fitted a grease nipple to make servicing even easier.
If you are going to strip down these bearings, it is well worth stripping out the swing arm, I found with mine I caught them just in time. There was the first signs of water penetration of the bearing and the grease had all but gone.
After a complete refresh and new bearings the back end she now feels beautifully smooth and with a new shock too, the bike is transformed. This is the part of my build thread (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=157076&page=17) where I go into the details of the rocker rebuild if you are interested.
Any links to the grease nips you used and the filler?
Would like to do the same.
theenglishman
16-02-15, 08:29 PM
Any links to the grease nips you used and the filler?
Would like to do the same.
Me too! It's in the build thread - 'Nipples'R'Us' or something like that
Sorry got diverted...
Page 19 has all there grey details here (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=157076&page=19)
The Nipple Shop (http://www.thenippleshop.co.uk) is the place to go. For real! :-)
muzikill
16-02-15, 08:43 PM
I was able to do almost all of it with the abba stand and the swingarm kit. Couldnt get the lower dogbone bolt off as it was solid. A job to be done with some who can loosen them with the right tools. But i got the other side loosened and was able clean out most of the light brown muck and regrease it. I was able to completely remove the shock and clean it down. No doubt a job not to be neglected now. And with the sv being a budget bike more hassle if you do.
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CodeJACK
16-02-15, 09:03 PM
Me too! It's in the build thread - 'Nipples'R'Us' or something like that
Sorry got diverted...
Page 19 has all there grey details here (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=157076&page=19)
The Nipple Shop (http://www.thenippleshop.co.uk) is the place to go. For real! :-)
Yeah, I saw that but there is no detail as to what fittings or how to fill them with grease.
no point in putting nipples on the linkage as its a piece of pizz to get off and service. its the main swingarm ones you need to keep well greased as they cost an arm and a leg. for the 2 bearings and the cups its around £180 also do the swingarm to linkage with nipples as well.
theenglishman
16-02-15, 09:28 PM
..its the main swingarm ones you need to keep well greased as they cost an arm and a leg. for the 2 bearings and the cups its around £180...
Ouch! Definitely a good bargaining point when looking at a second hand bike you like the look of with a solid rear!
yorkie_chris
17-02-15, 08:15 AM
and the grease had all but gone.
Like there was any in there to start with!
Spanner Man's saying... the big 4 budget for 1 tub of grease a year and they share it!
Jayneflakes
17-02-15, 08:36 AM
Any links to the grease nips you used and the filler?
Would like to do the same.
I used The Nipple Shop and fitting them was a doddle.
I seem to recall that they are an M5 thread and you drill a 4.5mm hole, tap it with the appropriate thread tap, add a dash of thread lock and fit the nipple.
This (http://www.thenippleshop.co.uk/acatalog/Steel_concave_straight.html) is the grease nipple I used and I combine it with a Pace Cycles Grease gun (http://pacecycles.easyspaceshops.com/epages/100056984.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/100056984/Products/GG2-501). I have had that grease gun for years and have not come across a better one.
My reason for not fitting a grease nipple to the swing arm was simply due to the room available. I was not convinced that I could get a grease gun into the space available. Also the bearings in the swing arm seemed better shielded than those that the dog bones run on. In total I fitted two grease nipples, one to each dog bone bearing. The actual bearings that the rocker runs on cannot have a nipple fitted because these are a single needle bearing and not fitted into a tube. These will still require stripping and greasing as part of your maintenance schedule.
The photos on my build thread are sadly out of sync because I linked to them from Facebook and they changed how they link to them. I tried to put them back in order, but could not remember which photos went where.
I hope that this helps. :D
CodeJACK
17-02-15, 09:46 AM
I used The Nipple Shop and fitting them was a doddle.
I seem to recall that they are an M5 thread and you drill a 4.5mm hole, tap it with the appropriate thread tap, add a dash of thread lock and fit the nipple.
This (http://www.thenippleshop.co.uk/acatalog/Steel_concave_straight.html) is the grease nipple I used and I combine it with a Pace Cycles Grease gun (http://pacecycles.easyspaceshops.com/epages/100056984.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/100056984/Products/GG2-501). I have had that grease gun for years and have not come across a better one.
My reason for not fitting a grease nipple to the swing arm was simply due to the room available. I was not convinced that I could get a grease gun into the space available. Also the bearings in the swing arm seemed better shielded than those that the dog bones run on. In total I fitted two grease nipples, one to each dog bone bearing. The actual bearings that the rocker runs on cannot have a nipple fitted because these are a single needle bearing and not fitted into a tube. These will still require stripping and greasing as part of your maintenance schedule.
The photos on my build thread are sadly out of sync because I linked to them from Facebook and they changed how they link to them. I tried to put them back in order, but could not remember which photos went where.
I hope that this helps. :D
Awesome, thanks so much Jane. Not sure ill bother now with the nips but the grease gun is something I have been meaning to add to the tools.
Thanks again. Your silvie is looking great !
CodeJACK
17-02-15, 10:19 AM
An example of how not to maintain your linkage and the reason I need to do mine:
Edit: That picture post failed miserably. Its the first picture in the flickr link in my sig.
Need to learn how to use BBCode in these forums..
theenglishman
17-02-15, 10:34 AM
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8572/16558601065_a1c4e623ef_s.jpg
Can't get it bigger <snigger> - I'm not a flickr user though.
CodeJACK
17-02-15, 12:44 PM
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8572/16558601065_a1c4e623ef_s.jpg
Can't get it bigger <snigger> - I'm not a flickr user though.
Hey OP, sorry for hijacking your thread.
I just picked up the bearings from robinsons for a good price as the SV is BOM at the moment. I have a week booked in march to do this job so ill try get some pix as I go and post them here to help you also.
theenglishman
17-02-15, 02:54 PM
Hey OP, sorry for hijacking your thread.
I just picked up the bearings from robinsons for a good price as the SV is BOM at the moment. I have a week booked in march to do this job so ill try get some pix as I go and post them here to help you also.
No worries - If I can get a bike by March we could be comparing notes :cheers:
Hey OP, sorry for hijacking your thread.
I just picked up the bearings from robinsons for a good price as the SV is BOM at the moment. I have a week booked in march to do this job so ill try get some pix as I go and post them here to help you also.
ermm no its not but last months was the bandit which has the same swingarm bearings part number 09263-25059. i just got 4 of them.
remember that if the spacers are pitted then you need new ones or you will just knacker the bearings in no time.... the new spacers 61251-31E00 are £35.33 each, kerching......
at the moment with the bearings being on special a total of £100.46 and if you get from Robinsons you quote FRDL for free postage. the above price does not include the other linkage bearings, its just for the main swingarm and spacers.
for all the complete bearings and spacers to do the whole swingarm is £210.46 from Robinsons but this is only due to some of them being on bike of the month.
think thats scary? just imagine what your local Suzuki dealer will charge for replacing them all.
CodeJACK
17-02-15, 03:51 PM
ermm no its not but last months was the bandit which has the same swingarm bearings part number 09263-25059. i just got 4 of them.
remember that if the spacers are pitted then you need new ones or you will just knacker the bearings in no time.... the new spacers 61251-31E00 are £35.33 each, kerching......
at the moment with the bearings being on special a total of £100.46 and if you get from Robinsons you quote FRDL for free postage. the above price does not include the other linkage bearings, its just for the main swingarm and spacers.
for all the complete bearings and spacers to do the whole swingarm is £210.46 from Robinsons but this is only due to some of them being on bike of the month.
think thats scary? just imagine what your local Suzuki dealer will charge for replacing them all.
Yeah, I only got the main bearings as they cant be gotten elsewhere. Any others that need replacing, ill source localy in Ireland.
With regards the spacers, I dont think its worth me spending the cash on them. I see what they come out like. I hope to just polish them up but as you say, if too far gone, ill consider it as a direct impact on the new bearings.
Just looking on ebay at the knuckles themselves seem to be different on 09+ bikes. Is that right? The existing K3 model is a progressive linkage. Could I just but a 09 knuckle with better bearings than mine and with liniar linkage?
K9 liniar linkage pic?
that link knuckle has nothing to do with an SV. i think the seller might have put the wrong picture in.
the linkage knuckle is the same K3> there is no difference.
the K3< (Curvy) are different
CodeJACK
17-02-15, 04:47 PM
that link knuckle has nothing to do with an SV. i think the seller might have put the wrong picture in.
the linkage knuckle is the same K3> there is no difference.
the K3< (Curvy) are different
Perfect, thanks for clearing that up. Twas mad expensive anyway:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/SUZUKI-SV-650-REAR-SUSPENSION-CUSHION-LINK-LINKAGE-09-/260584452141?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3cac0b302d
i suspect its been removed from a race bike as it looks like its been machined to give the rate a 1-1 instead of the rising rate of the OEM one.
theenglishman
17-02-15, 05:26 PM
Man alive. Am I glad I didn't get one the bikes with a solid back end!!
How are such bikes getting through MOT's? Or are owners realising this and hence many are on the market with '4 months MOT left - should fly through the next one'.
CodeJACK
17-02-15, 05:48 PM
i suspect its been removed from a race bike as it looks like its been machined to give the rate a 1-1 instead of the rising rate of the OEM one.
Just had another look and its actualy the linkage knuckle from the 06/07 zx10r. Have one in the attic I might try and fit for the craic
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gt900uk
19-02-15, 05:04 PM
Are these the main pivot bearings?
http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/suzuki/sv_650_sk6/06/picture/swinging_arm_pivot_bearing_kit/
yes but your better getting them from Robinsons at the moment as they are £14 each.
gt900uk
19-02-15, 05:54 PM
Cool cheers, got some time off so may have a blast at stripping the back end down and giving it a check. What grease for these bearings? I have some Castrol LM and Moly cutting about.
white LM is perfect.
its a bit of a mare job but once done...
top tip, dont bother loosening the rear exhaust studs, just undo the clamp. loosen the front clamp and loosen the front downpipe studs just enough to slide the pipework off.
get the proper tool for taking the castellated nut off (windygun time) and you will need a 24mm hex bit for the swingarm spindle.
i loosen everything before popping the bike on the ABBA stand. oohh and take the pipework off before putting on stand.. lol
you might want to get yourself some new clamps while your at it as guaranteed they are rusted solid.
have fun
CodeJACK
19-02-15, 10:12 PM
white LM is perfect.
its a bit of a mare job but once done...
top tip, dont bother loosening the rear exhaust studs, just undo the clamp. loosen the front clamp and loosen the front downpipe studs just enough to slide the pipework off.
get the proper tool for taking the castellated nut off (windygun time) and you will need a 24mm hex bit for the swingarm spindle.
i loosen everything before popping the bike on the ABBA stand. oohh and take the pipework off before putting on stand.. lol
you might want to get yourself some new clamps while your at it as guaranteed they are rusted solid.
have fun
You mean 19 for the spindle?
Any tips on how to get bearings out? Have always used threaded bar with socket to screw em out. Are there any in particular this wont work for?
ooopppsss yup 19mm
the swingarm has an alloy spacer bar inside so you cant whack it out, you need an expanding blind bearing puller. you can use a flat piece of steel or wood to drive the new ones back in as they sit flush (remember to put the spacer in after the first bearing).
the bearing also have seal on one end only.
i have just stripped down my spare swingarm to take some measurements and i think i have stumbled on a nice little cheep method of reducing the side to side play when installing new bearings. now i seem to remember Y_C talking about using o'rings a while back but vaguely stored it in my noggin for future use, well it has come of use.
the swingarm main tube for the bearings is 234mm long, the inner spacer is 161mm long which leaves 73mm now divide this by 2 for the 2 bearings leaves us 36.5mm either end. the recess inside the main tube for the bearings is +/-37mm the bearings are 35mm.
the bearing bush is 37mm long on the inside
i also know that there is 1-1.2mm play when the bearing bush are in the bearings which gives .5-.6mm either side.
ok geeky stuff over, whats the score. well if you recess the bearings by 1mm when installing them you can fit a 33x1.5mm Viton o'ring.
ok but what will that do for us.. well it will for 1.reduce dirt and water ingress. 2.take the .5mm play up while still allowing a little give. you could use 33x2mm o'rings for an even tighter seal at the expense of a little free movement but will gain less give side to side, which is even better.
i hear you say 'how do i get the 1mm recess Bibs' i'm still working on that but if there is a 33m or 32mm punch down the workshop then i can punch some shims out of .9mm stainless to use as a spacer when installing the bearings. if you dont have a bearing install tool i suppose if your careful you could use the bearing bush with a soft mallet to tap the spacer flush then remove the spacer.
yorkie_chris
22-02-15, 04:56 PM
My use of O rings was on bottom of shock to allow you to use a cheap commercial needle roller instead of suzuki special one.
I don't think I would use O rings on main swingarm, crap ingress is not too bad a problem with reasonable maintenance (once when you get the bike, then every 45k maybe). For taking up side to side play we already have solution with metal shims and I don't think the elastic nature of O rings would be ideal for the job. Better than a big gap granted though!
Problem I see though, the depth of bore for bearings... is this spot on .5 over depth? It's probably not tied up as in use it doesn't matter. If the O rings are exerting any axial force A it will probably destroy them and B it might just shove the bearings deeper into the tube.
CodeJACK
04-03-15, 01:13 PM
I knew it was going to be bad but this was worse than I expected. Anyone got a good linkage with bearings and sleeves going really cheap?
Link to pic:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zqmnf067lq6e8b0/2015-03-04%2012.57.56.jpg?dl=0
http://s6.postimg.org/55kj9aytt/2015_03_04_12_57_56.jpg
well thats the worst i have seen. your back end must have been rock solid.
let this be a warning to people.. a tub of grease only costs a fiver.. the job only takes an hour.. money saved £70+
CodeJACK
04-03-15, 03:51 PM
Thanks for rubbing it in bib lol.
I was amazed to see that the needles had been pounded into dust and left imprints on the bushes. Think you can see it in the pic.
Yeah. Rear end was rock hard. I thought it might have been the shock but its clearly not. Bike has been handling really bad for the last year and im sure its related to this.
Found a linkage on ebay that I think ill buy. The zx10 linkage is not too far off the sv but would need to be chopped to fit. Might try ask a local bike site here if one of the cnc guys would give it a blast
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punyXpress
04-03-15, 04:05 PM
Is there anything REALLY wrong with the alloy bit?
Know it looks grubby, but press the bearing outers off, give it a good clean, reassemble with LOTS of grease and jobs a good'un.
theenglishman
04-03-15, 05:42 PM
well thats the worst i have seen. your back end must have been rock solid.
I've seen half a dozen SV's and only one didn't have an absolutely solid rear - how do they get through the MOT?
if there is no play and the shock is not leaking then its a pass, thats if the MOT inspector even checks the linkages when he's doing the job.
CodeJACK
04-03-15, 06:46 PM
Is there anything REALLY wrong with the alloy bit?
Know it looks grubby, but press the bearing outers off, give it a good clean, reassemble with LOTS of grease and jobs a good'un.
Its about cost and time really. Buying the bearings would cost as much as a new second hand linkage with bearings already fitted. So its less hassle too.
theenglishman
04-03-15, 06:54 PM
Its about cost and time really. Buying the bearings would cost as much as a new second hand linkage with bearings already fitted. So its less hassle too.
Says the man bidding on a custom progressive linkage ;)
There's a youtube vid with the guy pressing out the old and fitting the new on under 30 mins - you've already got it all apart.
CodeJACK
04-03-15, 09:47 PM
Says the man bidding on a custom progressive linkage ;)
There's a youtube vid with the guy pressing out the old and fitting the new on under 30 mins - you've already got it all apart.
No harm in askin if its still available. I never made him an offer.
I pressed two of the bearings already but managed to score the inside of one surface. So again, at this point it makes better and cheaper sense to replace the lot and save myself the cost of new bushes also.
how do you mean 'scored the inside of one surface' if your on about the main ally casting then it dont matter. just get the old bearings out and press new ones in.. job done.
second hand one off ebay might be in a state as well. i was fortunate to get one in perfect nick along with a swingarm but the swingarm was scratched to buggery. got the mate to shot blast it and i'm considering having him powder coat it satin black or spraying OEM black once i have done my dirty dead with it. i'm installing a grease nipple at the main bearings (yes i'm going to fill the whole main bearing tube with grease so when i squirt more in it forces the old out) and the two lower ones so maintenance is a doodle in the future, i would rather spend £20 on nipples and grease now than spend hundreds again in the future.
CodeJACK
04-03-15, 11:37 PM
The thing I was using to press out went in at an angle scratched/scored the surface of the linkage.
Rather than buying all new bearings and bushings, ill go with a 30quid full linkage off ebay.
well that was a right mare. the smaller bearings for the linkage on the swingarm decided to smash into a thousand bits while pulling them out and i had to resort to cutting a slot in the shells with a dremel and rasp bit.
CodeJACK
19-03-15, 11:25 PM
well that was a right mare. the smaller bearings for the linkage on the swingarm decided to smash into a thousand bits while pulling them out and i had to resort to cutting a slot in the shells with a dremel and rasp bit.
Finally got mine out today also. Plenty of heat was the only thing that helped me.
Those smaller ones seem in good nick on mine so I decided to leave em be.
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