Insurance companies... Renewal time...

[otaylor38]

Hi everyone. Just abit of a moan really.

Im with MCE for the VFR at the moment, but its renewal time soon so i get a quote off go compare. £220 with MCE, again.

I get a renewal letter through with no price on, just a number to ring. So i do.

I spend 18 minutes on the phone going through everything with the lady on the other end, usual questions, usual scenario. Same cover as from go compare £301.

So i explain to her shes £80 more expensive than herself.

Sorry we cant beat or match that, youll have to buy it online.

Wtf. 18 minutes. For that. What is the point? Just a complete waste of time!

Sorry. Rant over (:

[Bibio]

0845 number?

[otaylor38]

0845 number?

Nearly.

I used that 'saynoto0845' website thing n got a number which is inclusive in my free phone calls :).

[Littlepeahead]

I rang my existing insurer last week, said the bikes are a year older, worth less and I've made no claims so why have you put it up £10 on last year? I can fart about comparing or you could knock £35 of that sum and I'll pay now. (The cheapest quote I had by comparing was £30 cheaper, I had checked). Yeah, OK, we can do it for that says the guy on the phone. I'd just got back from Thailand, I think he sensed I was in the mood to haggle or walk away like a Thai street market.

[DJ123]

Hi everyone. Just abit of a moan really.

Im with MCE for the VFR at the moment, but its renewal time soon so i get a quote off go compare. £220 with MCE, again.

I get a renewal letter through with no price on, just a number to ring. So i do.

I spend 18 minutes on the phone going through everything with the lady on the other end, usual questions, usual scenario. Same cover as from go compare £301.

So i explain to her shes £80 more expensive than herself.

Sorry we cant beat or match that, youll have to buy it online.

Wtf. 18 minutes. For that. What is the point? Just a complete waste of time!

Sorry. Rant over (:



Compare sites have rules the companies abide by. One of them is to make sure they don't quote lower than the quote on the site, otherwise people will all start going direct & they'll be obsolete.

[otaylor38]

Compare sites have rules the companies abide by. One of them is to make sure they don't quote lower than the quote on the site, otherwise people will all start going direct & they'll be obsolete.

Didnt know that, but makes sense.. And even so...

A few quid i would of paid just to get it done there n then, but she kept me for 18 minutes for an £81 difference haha.

She might aswel answer the phone "if youve been on a comparison site, i cant match it, so crack on online" haha (:

[Kenzie]

I had my insurance company send me their "best" renewal for about £120. Phoned up to add extra miles, and the guy said let me see what I can do. Got it with the same underwriter for £76.

[otaylor38]

I had my insurance company send me their "best" renewal for about £120. Phoned up to add extra miles, and the guy said let me see what I can do. Got it with the same underwriter for £76.

Well done!

So there are some that dont rip off their phone customers haha

[L3nny]

Just had the same with MCE, they called me tho, went through the quote, £420

Me "I'll get some more quotes and get back to you"
MCE "Well we do have some wiggle room with that"
Me "I tell you what? why don't you just give me the best price now"
MCE "Okay it's £380"

The Bikeinsurer..................MCE's online only quote £276!!

The did offer "Free Trackday Insurance" though...........With an excess of 50% of the bike's value. So worthless then!
Luckily this time MCE isn't the cheapest this time so I can go with a company that's slightly less dodgy.

[otaylor38]

Just had the same with MCE, they called me tho, went through the quote, £420

Me "I'll get some more quotes and get back to you"
MCE "Well we do have some wiggle room with that"
Me "I tell you what? why don't you just give me the best price now"
MCE "Okay it's £380"

The Bikeinsurer..................MCE's online only quote £276!!

The did offer "Free Trackday Insurance" though...........With an excess of 50% of the bike's value. So worthless then!
Luckily this time MCE isn't the cheapest this time so I can go with a company that's slightly less dodgy.

Exactly!

"Its all broker fee's" she says.

I'll be brutally honest. Im not that bothered what the fee's are, the fact is, theyre charging me more on the phone than they are online, for the same cover, with the same company.

They go all quiet when you ask them though.

Just makes it feel like theyre tryna rip you off.

[DJ123]

Exactly!

"Its all broker fee's" she says.

I'll be brutally honest. Im not that bothered what the fee's are, the fact is, theyre charging me more on the phone than they are online, for the same cover, with the same company.

They go all quiet when you ask them though.

Just makes it feel like theyre tryna rip you off.

What people forget though is that these companies are not charities, they are all around to make money! It is up to you to get a price and company you are happy with. Essentially the world is their oyster, by law you need insurance and they sell insurance. We need them more than they need us really . . .

[L3nny]

Just makes it feel like theyre tryna rip you off.

Maybe because that's what they are doing.

I feel sorry for the guys on the phone, they are obviously on commission and know they are selling a bad product at an inflated price, they sound so happy and optimistic and when you say you're going online they are so deflated.

[otaylor38]

What people forget though is that these companies are not charities, they are all around to make money! It is up to you to get a price and company you are happy with. Essentially the world is their oyster, by law you need insurance and they sell insurance. We need them more than they need us really . . .

But an equal price online and on the phone is just fairer IMO

[otaylor38]

Maybe because that's what they are doing.

I feel sorry for the guys on the phone, they are obviously on commission and know they are selling a bad product at an inflated price, they sound so happy and optimistic and when you say you're going online they are so deflated.

Try that.

As soon as i said about the online price, she went from being an optimistic, happy young sounding girl, to a deflated girl that couldnt wait to get off the phone. And i cant blame her, its not her fault.

How is she supposed to succeed and earn in a world thats so internet orientated, its not fair on her.

But on the other hand, am i going to pay £80 to give a girl a sale that I've never met and never will know in order to give her a sale. Nahh.

But it should be equal between internet and phone IMO.

Rather than praying on people like my gran that cant use the internet, and making a profit out of her. :/. Cos thats what it is really...

[chris8886]

Rather than praying on people like my gran that cant use the internet, and making a profit out of her. :/. Cos thats what it is really...



and those like me with medical conditions that mean I have to ring them up because I have to check absolutely that they will still cover me. tis a right pain!! I hate having to go through the process every year!

[otaylor38]

and those like me with medical conditions that mean I have to ring them up because I have to check absolutely that they will still cover me. tis a right pain!! I hate having to go through the process every year!

Feel for ya mate.

Its bad enough when its all simple.

She asked me if my 8 spoke rear wheel was performance enhancing yesterday. Yes love. It gives me 40bhp :s

[Amadeus]

One thing to beware of is having the conditions of your policy changing at renewal time. I've just had my renewal come through and it's gone up because of a no-fault claim on my car. I had had protection but at some point that had ben removed from the policy and I'd not noticed. Thanks CN (tho not absolving myself of blame - I guess I didn't read everything).

[EssexDave]

I just had a renewal through from Swinton. It had two prices on it.

1. The automatic renewal price: £1,000
2. The 'best quote' which I had to find to take £246

I was paying £175 last year.

Phoned them up to see what's what, best quote they could give me on the phone was £215 to begin with, then £180 after they applied every discount possible.

I'd had a quote online from a different broker, but the same underwriter - Equity RedStar. I'm quite happy with equity, I've had two claims through them and they've been very good, but what else do I get for me extra money paying the broker? Their answer seemed to be nothing.

Can't help but feel that these telesales agents are between a rock and a hard place.

[otaylor38]

Seems the best thing to do is forget about it n let the automatic renewal kick in. Only £800 extra. Bargain ;) haha.

I had a claim with equity red star too n they were very good with me tbh. Sorted everything out, courtesy bike n the lot.

Hmm its not easy for them. I can only assume they work on commission too? How are they supposed to sell in circumstances like this :/. I've no doubt some people dont shop about and just pay for it, but you seem to get penalised for being loyal these days n its been well known for a while now that you need to shop about

[ClunkintheUK]

The telesales things are a waste of time for most people out there. The agents on the other end of the phone just plug stuff into a computer, which runs a model and tells you your risk profile and how much you should pay.

I can think of no other industry, apart from mortgage lenders, which is so obstinately stuck in the dark ages. We know the details they want, most people can work a computer, or know someone who can. brokers are just an extra layer taking their cut, and obfuscating the whole process in the mean time.

Insurance companies also have an incredibly favourable operating model, they effectively have negative stock days. They receive payment (premiums) before they have to pay for the product (paying out). The only other industry who has this are the super markets, and there its only a matter of weeks, insurance industry is 6 months. This operating model is essentially what made Warren Buffet rich. And if I ever get the kind of capital needed to, I'll start an insurance company.

[Neeja]

The telesales things are a waste of time for most people out there. The agents on the other end of the phone just plug stuff into a computer, which runs a model and tells you your risk profile and how much you should pay.

I can think of no other industry, apart from mortgage lenders, which is so obstinately stuck in the dark ages. We know the details they want, most people can work a computer, or know someone who can. brokers are just an extra layer taking their cut, and obfuscating the whole process in the mean time.

Insurance companies also have an incredibly favourable operating model, they effectively have negative stock days. They receive payment (premiums) before they have to pay for the product (paying out). The only other industry who has this are the super markets, and there its only a matter of weeks, insurance industry is 6 months. This operating model is essentially what made Warren Buffet rich. And if I ever get the kind of capital needed to, I'll start an insurance company.

You're right with the dark-ages stuff in relation to a lot of aspects with insurance. The company that I work for still uses paper files for clients, and this is not uncommon.

However, brokers are not just an "extra layer" for anything other than simple products. Brokers are (generally) there for advice and to argue on your behalf. It's also handy to have someone else to blame if you get something wrong when applying for insurance - if you mess it up yourself, you're stuck, but if a broker has misadvised you then you've got an extra level of "safety" to fall back on.

Incidentally, the slice taken by brokers in a large number of cases is almost if not entirely invisible to the end-user as it comes from the insurer. Insurers give away a percentage of their earnings to a broker as commission in order to not have to handle the admin and client-facing side of issuing policies. Decent brokers also know how the policy you have operates (sometimes, sadly, better than the claims department at the insurer). Unfortunately, cheap products like motor insurance are generally handled by call-centre "brokers" who generally don't have much if any real insurance knowledge.

Your comments on the capital model are interesting. You are, in general, completely right. Warren Buffet has made a massive amount of money from leveraging below market-rate funding via insurance premiums. However, he started this process this by buying an under-valued insurance company. It's unlikely anyone will ever get the chance to repeat this as people are much more savvy about using insurance companies this way now.

However, one thing to understand about most insurance companies is that their underwriting arm runs at a slight loss. They lose money on the policies they sell, but make it back through investment incomes. This doesn't go so well when the markets crash.

Incidentally, my renewal this year with Carole Nash was an absolute nightmare, since they completely ignored a bunch of comments I made last year. Eventually sorted with a £25 good will discount (meaning my policy cost all of £89 this year). However, still much better service than MCE...

TL;DR summary: Use the internet where possible for simple products; use a decent broker for anything that'll cost more than a few hundred quid; insurers generally lose money on insurance but gain it back on investment returns.

[ClunkintheUK]

Neeja,
Yeah, I guess I was mostly referring to stuff like car insurance and most household insurance policies. I've seen the point re insurers having problems first hand. Our Financial Institutions team was run off their feet 2009-2012 lending to insurance companies. Warren Buffets other key ingredient was that he wasn't playing the markets, but longer term.

The telesales effect or general de-skilling is seen in loads of other professions now. It a major problem within a lot of financial markets, lots of junior traders reading number of spreadsheets they do not truly understand, and expensive senior traders sent out to pasture. The brown wet stuff hits the fan, and only a few people know what it all means.

The dark ages stuff is infuriating to me. Spent most of my career so far just dealing with crap filing and processes.

[TamSV]

Dark ages? How depressing.

I remember when call centres were the latest thing. :)

You used to have to trudge up and down the high street to shop around for insurance. Total waste of time for bikes, everyone gave you the same Norwich Union quote anyway.

I dunno. Young uns today with their internets and wiipods. Don't know they're born. ;)

[shiftin_gear98]

Mine was recently up too, I had however taken the alarm off mid term due to it blowing fuses.
Something I might not have let them know...
So as it was renewal time I thought I'd shop around (bike insurer) online giving the correct info about no alarm. My quotes were quite a bit higher, bugger.
I even went on my insurers own website and submitted a new enquiry. £60 more than my renewal letter. bugger.


So I thought what the hell, and rang them. "Oh ok, let me update the system" - cost £5.07 more.
Happy days.

[otaylor38]

Mine was recently up too, I had however taken the alarm off mid term due to it blowing fuses.
Something I might not have let them know...
So as it was renewal time I thought I'd shop around (bike insurer) online giving the correct info about no alarm. My quotes were quite a bit higher, bugger.
I even went on my insurers own website and submitted a new enquiry. £60 more than my renewal letter. bugger.


So I thought what the hell, and rang them. "Oh ok, let me update the system" - cost £5.07 more.
Happy days.

Hmm. Worth noting for me cheers.

I was thinking of taking off the Datatool System 3 thats on the bike at the moment. If i knew how to that is haha.

Bloody annoying alarms are arent they.

[shiftin_gear98]

That's the one.. sodding thing. TAKE IT OFF...
Gave me two very long walks.
I could do it, so could you. Quite easy really with hindsight.

[otaylor38]

That's the one.. sodding thing. TAKE IT OFF...
Gave me two very long walks.
I could do it, so could you. Quite easy really with hindsight.

I'll have a look into it (: cheers!

Its been since 2003 i think. So am i right in thinking im just waiting for it to fail now? Haha. Dont last forever do they :/