Pointy Not Firing

[Stuart42]

Hi all

I've had a search around but can't find anything to help.

Basically yesterday my fuel pump wasn't working, which I traced to the ecu.

The bike will now not fire on either spark plug.

Being a race bike I have removed the side stand switch and also the clutch switch.

The battery is fully charged and there is no fault code on the dash.

My concern is that the ecu blew and why it is now not firing, are they connected?

Thanks for your help

Cheers
Stuart

[DJ123]

Can you hear the pump whirring as you turn the ignition on?

[Stuart42]

Hi

Had to rewire missing out the ecu,so does work now.

Cheers Stuart

[DJ123]

What bike is it you have? which K

[Stuart42]

K6

Cheers Stuart

[LewSpeight]

I have an ECU for sale from an 06 if you're interested?

[Stuart42]

Hi

Update.

I've tried another CDI unit and still the same. No spark, fuel pump doesn't start and check shows on dash.

Also PC doesn't light up and cycle through its set up.

The starter will go when the kill switch is flicked so take it thats ok.

Any ideas please as racing starts soon?

Cheers
Stuart

[Corny Gizmo]

Have you checked the code?

[Stuart42]

Hi
There is no error code, just check on the dash.
Cheers Stuart

[Grant66]

PC? Power Commander? Have you tried removing it?

[Stuart42]

Yes sorry power commander.

Have removed it, but still nothing.

Cheers Stuart

[Grant66]

General advice for electrical system diagnosis is to determine where the fault appears.

You have no spark on either plug & no fuel pump. Its very unlikely you have faults on all of these without a common cause.

Only realistic common cause is the ECU.

You've ruled out the ECU itself (assuming it was a known good unit). So we're left with inputs to the ECU.

As we have no fault code it suggests that the ECU isn't capable of determining what the fault is, so that makes one of the sensors less likely.

I'd be checking that the ECU is getting power & that it is correctly earthed. I'm betting on an ignition switch issue.

Sorry that sounds a little patronising, wasn't meant to be. I was just going through logic behind "check its got power".

[Stuart42]

Thanks for that.

Not patronising at all, often helps starting from basics, as with this time, have tied myself in knots checking stuff, so very was to get lost.

Sound advice, will let you know how I get on.

Cheers Stuart

[Bibio]

fuel pump relay or fuse.

''check'' only comes up on the dash when the kill switch is flicked and or the side stand is down and the bike is in gear. when this happens it will kill all power to the fuel pump and starter.

another thing is the tip over sensor, if this is in the wrong orientation it will also kill power to the fuel pump.

pointys dont like the clutch switch being bridged and will run a weird map on the ecu.

you might be better asking in the racing and paddock chat section on the forum to see if they have a fix for your problem.

[Stuart42]

Thanks for that.

The starter turns fine when kill switch fixed, just the fuel or spark that is problem.

I've checked fuel pump and its just not getting power, as works fine when powered directly.

If its tip over switch does that not come up with error code?

Cheers
Stuart

[Bibio]

the only wire that connects the two items for spark and fuel is Orange/White. the O/W wire is connected to your kill switch, fuel pump relay, coils and CDI.

main 30A fuse supplies the power (Black/Red) to fuse3 which supplies the power to the fuel pump relay (Red/White) which in turn supplies the fuel pump (yellow/Red) which then goes on to supply the injectors.

since you have no spark and no fuel pump then it looks like the only given item that is at fault is the fuel pump relay not receiving power to the coil inside to be able to throw the switch and feed power.

[Stuart42]

Again, thanks for that.

My mate has just been over and we have found that we are getting power to the cdi as well as switchable power to the cdi.

We have found that the cdi is not switching to allow the fuel pump to work, and presumably the spark plugs?

The only interlock which we can't test is the tilt switch, is there a way of testing this? Or can we bypass it?

Also what is the relay type box next to the fuses?

Thanks again,

Stuart

[Bibio]

turn your attentions to something other than the CDI, its very very rare that they fail.

the box next to the fuse box is the indicator relay.

my advice would be to first put the safety switches back into the loom and see how it goes, if it fires up then you know its something in that circuit. if it makes no difference then check the wiring to and from the fuel pump relay. if you bridge R/W and Y/R you should get power to the fuel pump when the bike is turned on no matter if the ecu is dead. if you do get the whirring then it can only be the coil side of the relay not getting power or going completing the circuit via the ecu.

if you have had the ecu plug on and off a few times then double check that you have not bent any pins or pushed out any terminals on the connector.

[Stuart42]

Hi

Me again.

Have bridged the two wires and PC powers up fine, so guess the pump will as well.

I also have 12v at the coils, but still no spark.

I can't put the switches back in as never had them, checked continuity and that is fine though?

Many many thanks for your patience with me.

Cheers
Stuart

[Stuart42]

As you ccan probably guess I'm dashing between garage, and laptop.

I've just seen this written by daddyjob, regarding a similar problem

'i remember having problems with my bike after removing the alarm, cannot remember how i got it going int he end. However i do remember it was something to do with the 3 b + w wires the alarm was connected to in the loom'.

I have removed these three wires as well, could this be the problem?

If so where do they go to, seeing as they seemed to be 3 earth wires I didn't think it was an issue?

Cheers
Stuart

[Bibio]

so lets get this right, you have cut wires out a loom without knowing what they do?

[Stuart42]

Sounds stupid when you say it like that, but in my defence I've run the bike for a year and was tidying up the loom.

I've not used the connector and checked the wires were all earth wires so removed them. Lesson learnt.

Any idea where the connect back in the loom?

Cheers Stuart

[Grant66]

The B/W wires that connect the ecu to the battery -ve?

[Grant66]

And the fuel pump

[Stuart42]

They came out of splits in the loom, so stupidly, presumed the only thing that would've been earthed by them was whatever plugged into the connector which was unused, hence why I removed it.

[Bibio]

i take it your trying the spark by holding the spark plug against the engine casing?

[Bibio]

They came out of splits in the loom, so stupidly, presumed the only thing that would've been earthed by them was whatever plugged into the connector which was unused, hence why I removed it.

did you check under the 'splits' to see what wires they were connected to?

[Grant66]

This may help:

Pointy Circuit diagram (http://www.ocmoto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26668.0;attach=115 79;image)

[Stuart42]

Thanks for the diagram, only had a black and white one to work from.

Yes testing the plug against engine case.

They came from black and white wires from what I recall.

Guess I will be going back over it to check, unless anyone knows where they connect? 3 pin connector with black and white wires, something to do with the alarm?

Cheers Stuart

[Stuart42]

SORTED!!!!!

After your help last night I retraced where the 3 wires on the connector I cut out came from, joined the two wires that were connected via the connector and all works fine. PC, pump and spark. Happy days.

Many thanks to all of you that helped me with this, you're stars.

Cheers
Stuart