Leader debate

[Amadeus]

Referee is completely out of her depth!

[BernardBikerchick]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Amadeus]

It was... Alarmingly (to me) Farage came across as the best speaker, tho what he said was questionable.
Quite how Sturgeon thought she was helping democracy is beyond me. Nasty little person.

[Biker Biggles]

Definitely a mistake to have regional partys like SNP or PC in the debate.They just get a free dig at the main people and talk about local issues.Also a mistake to allow pressure groups like UKIP and Green on it.Id like to see just DC and EM slog it out.Even Clegg is a bit of a distraction from the main show IMO.

[Trev B]

Seeing as the 2 main parties have had the reigns for the last 100 years all parties deserve a say ,if you always do what you always did,you'll always get what you always got.Time for a change,,they,(the establishments) have bunkered themselves in for far too long and have dragged us to our current position in the word,no one else,bring it on but as i have seen over many elections nothing changes over night,its drip,drip,drip, soft water wears a hole through solid stone,and no one notices it until its too late!!!

[Bibio]

seeing as the 2 main parties have had the reigns for the last 100 years all parties deserve a say ,if you always do what you always did,you'll always get what you always got.time for a change,,they,(the establishments) have bunkered themselves in for far too long and have dragged us to our current position in the word,no one else,bring it on but as i have seen over many elections nothing changes over night,its drip,drip,drip, soft water wears a hole through solid stone,and no one notices it until its too late!!!

=D> =D> =D> =D> :smt045

i will vote UKIP as they dont have a clue so will concentrate on the basics of running a country rather than trying to look good on the world podium.

[ophic]

i will vote UKIP as they dont have a clue so will concentrate on the basics of running a country rather than trying to look good on the world podium.
Assuming they have enough of a clue to do that. Which I doubt.

[garynortheast]

Assuming they have enough of a clue to do that. Which I doubt.


That's ok, when it all goes wrong they will just blame "the foreigners". I seem to recall someone else doing that back in the 30s.......

[ClunkintheUK]

They are all a bunch of wasters. I am having real trouble trying to figure out which way to vote this time. I don't trust labour with the economy, I don't trust the tories with the NHS or education, specifically higher (without which the economy is stuffed, just on a longer time frame). I don't trust Lib Dem, fullstop, after the tuition fees thing. Its one thing to break a manifesto proposal, its another to sign a pledge stating you will not do something and then do it, as my local MP did on tuition fees in a university constituency.

There is however one thing I am sure of, I will be scarpering pretty quickly if UKIP end up on the other side of the aisle.

[Mrs DJ Fridge]

It has to be the hardest voting decision ever, only made more complex by the marginal parties laying out their demands.

[Bri w]

For the first time since becoming eligible to vote I may abstain. I don't trust any of them to deliver on their promises/manifesto.


Labour - higher taxation, leading to higher interest rates and more borrowing rapidly turning an economy on the up to one that will be heading in the direction of the likes of Greece, Spain & Portugal.


Conservatives - God help those in need, the Cons want to turn the country around by making businesses successful. Great if you've got a job, or at least fit enough to work. That sort of turn around takes too long to filter down to the needy.


Worryingly, both of the above will sell their soul to the little parties that will probably hold the balance of power.

[Trev B]

Well what ever your views on politics are,( mine are pretty low) you don't have to be a radicalist or anything else,but please vote,USE IT,If you always do what you always did,you will always get what you always got!!!!!!!!

[Heorot]

I've tried as best to ignore all the political drivel being spouted as I know who I will vote for.

Retired now and on a fixed income, but my memories of 9% pay rises and 22% inflation under Labour while supporting a wife and 2 toddlers are burnt in my mind forever. I grew up in a working class family without any spare cash but I never felt so poor as under that Labour government.

The only serious opposition to Labour are the Conservative, so they get my vote despite my contempt for that lightweight, Cameron.

[jambo]

Try something like this:

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

I think the best way of telling who best represents you is to take the man at the front out of it...

Jambo

[Heorot]

Jambo, for me it is a trust issue. I don't trust any of the parties but find the Tories more trustworthy than any of the other parties. If you are going to vote based on what the parties say they will do, then I despair of your sanity. Look at their track record in past administrations, particularly as regards their records on the economy. Hardly any of the most attractive polices put forward are ever implemented.

[ClunkintheUK]

Well what ever your views on politics are,( mine are pretty low) you don't have to be a radicalist or anything else,but please vote,USE IT,If you always do what you always did,you will always get what you always got!!!!!!!!

I agree Trev. If you always do what you have always done, you get what you have always gotten. The thing is, I have always voted, for the last 15 years. and for the last 15 years (well longer actually) I have been systematically screwed, along with many of my generation. I can enumerate if you want me to.

[Bibio]

Jambo, for me it is a trust issue. I don't trust any of the parties but find the Tories more trustworthy than any of the other parties. If you are going to vote based on what the parties say they will do, then I despair of your sanity. Look at their track record in past administrations, particularly as regards their records on the economy. Hardly any of the most attractive polices put forward are ever implemented.
and you trust the tories :confused:

the big parties have had the reign faaar to long and are getting complacent about the British purse strings. they have done what they want when they want and fek the public. the cost of living is beyond a joke and people are struggling so much that some are having to hold down two jobs just to eat and pay the bills. how does the Gov hide this well they give people working tax credits that cost the rest of the public a fekin fortune, its not the unemployed that are costing the public money its the working population with kids and the armed forces firing bullets in other country's in the name of peace and supposed terrorism. add to that the extortionate high earners tax, so not only are the bosses paying the workers to work they are also paying the Gov who pay the workers to work.

privatisation has ruined this country, not only are the public paying funny money for services the Gov are giving the new owners handouts left right and centre but the cost of these services keeps going up so whats the point in privatisation. the whole idea was to get better cheaper services, so where are they :confused:

time to give someone else a go... fek its only 4 years and if we dont like what they do then we can vote them out the next election. they cant do any worse that what we already have.

[Balky001]

Try something like this:

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

I think the best way of telling who best represents you is to take the man at the front out of it...

Jambo

I like that. Some of the policies scream what party they are from but if you approach it objectively it was good to read the statements and results were pretty surprising for me, individual as well as by my constituency (always been a Tory area but they come out 5th, Labour 1st) and nationally. Unlikely to change many people's vote though especially for those that don't trust politicians but helps understand what their policies are other than the headlines

[Trev B]

Clunkintheuk,no need to elaborate on anything mate.I have been a victim of both parties,especially the Tories,that wiped my industry of the face of the UK,I truly feel so sorry for those young ones that don't have a chance of a job,never mind one with a decent wage I don't know the answer,but voting for the 2 main parties shows that they both don't give a monkeys about joe public,maybe a complete change might send them a message.Im with Bibio!!!

[Heorot]

Well my career as a freelance IT contractor was brought to an abrupt halt by Labour. First they changed the tax rules that made it more expensive than permanent workers, and then changed the rules on foreign contractors coming into the country. Around an additional 20,000 foreign contractors, mostly Indian, were allowed to work here, and about the same number of UK contractors were forced out of the industry. I was one of the ones forced out.

[BanannaMan]

Try something like this:

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

I think the best way of telling who best represents you is to take the man at the front out of it...

Jambo







Excellent link!
This should be how elections are decided.

I tried it just for fun and was shocked at the results. :shock:

[jambo]

If you are going to vote based on what the parties say they will do, then I despair of your sanity.
I'm not so naive as to think the parties will stick to their policies, but this is their default position laid out in front of you. If you don't vote for a party that at least defaults to behaviour you agree with then they will let you down a lot more of the time.


privatisation has ruined this country, not only are the public paying funny money for services the Gov are giving the new owners handouts left right and centre but the cost of these services keeps going up so whats the point in privatisation. the whole idea was to get better cheaper services, so where are they :confused:

time to give someone else a go... fek its only 4 years and if we dont like what they do then we can vote them out the next election. they cant do any worse that what we already have.
Bibio,
From my understanding UKIP are about as pro-privatisation as you can get (including the NHS). By all means vote for them but please do so because you agree with their policies not because they represent a vote against the establishment. For me that's a bit like getting fed up with endless travlodge and holiday inn hotels so checking into the Bates Motel for a change of scene...

I like that. Some of the policies scream what party they are from but if you approach it objectively it was good to read the statements and results were pretty surprising for me, individual as well as by my constituency (always been a Tory area but they come out 5th, Labour 1st) and nationally. Unlikely to change many people's vote though especially for those that don't trust politicians but helps understand what their policies are other than the headlines

I doubt it'll change many minds but I think it can be very helpful to see what the policies are rather than just think "God I can't stand that bloke" because honestly I've no interest in socialising with any of them :)

Excellent link!
This should be how elections are decided.

I tried it just for fun and was shocked at the results. :shock:

A lot of people (myself included) are often surprised who they find themselves aligned with, but then when you do a bit more digging it can turn out that you have more in common with a different party than you thought.


From my point of view I always vote. I don't consistently vote for the same party as my circumstances and the party lines change, and honestly these are political leaders, not a football team that you have to follow for your whole life :)

Jambo

[Amadeus]

I was one of the ones forced out.


Out of interest, what industry?

[squirrel_hunter]

Well I've taken the test that Jambo linked. Quite interesting, I seam to be fairly evenly split across 4 parties. But more interestingly there was one party I had no affiliation with, this does not surprise me considering the party...

However what I did find was from the list of polices in their pledges there was often 1 thing that I didn't like even when all other polices sounded reasonable to me. I also noticed that a lot of the polices across the parties were basically the same. No surprise there!

So I am still at a loss on who to vote for.

[Biker Biggles]

Well I've taken the test that Jambo linked. Quite interesting, I seam to be fairly evenly split across 4 parties. But more interestingly there was one party I had no affiliation with, this does not surprise me considering the party...

However what I did find was from the list of polices in their pledges there was often 1 thing that I didn't like even when all other polices sounded reasonable to me. I also noticed that a lot of the polices across the parties were basically the same. No surprise there!

So I am still at a loss on who to vote for.

Looking back at the Blair and Thatcher periods I think the best way to vote if otherwise undecided is against whoever is currently in power.The hubris and borderline insanity that develops after a few years as PM makes it reasonable to ensure there is a change at the top sooner rather than later.

[Amadeus]

It's interesting as well that thatcher seems to be considered a great politician now, regardless of whether one agrees with her policies. Will be interesting to see how Blair is seen in a few years but I can't imagine it will be the same. Was his reputation tarnished by his introduction of industrial spin, Campbell and Mandy (plus of course the regime change policy)? Certainly can't imagine Blair will get a funeral like Thatcher's for example.

[Biker Biggles]

History is written by the powerful and they rarely support anyone from the "left".So Winston was great while Attlee is mostly forgotten.And so it goes on.

[Trev B]

Amadeus..I think that those that liked Thatcher idolised her but then they would wouldn't they,But many many more hated the woman(rightly or wrongly),mainly the working(now not Working) class who saw the distraction of our manufacturing industries in a very short time,pick any thing up now and it says made in China or PRC,I for one detested the woman and her style of flag you jack I'm alright.Mr Blair was not much better in my opinion,he was the blurred line between Labour and the Tories,the only difference being that Labour had a small(very small) social conscience,my vote goes to ???????? UKIP!!

[Heorot]

Out of interest, what industry?

I was a freelance analyst/programmer with the emphasis on analysis. Mainly using the Cobol language. I worked mostly for major organisations (Banks, insurance and retail). After the introduction of IR35, it became very difficult to comply and still be better off than working in permanent roles and companies were reluctant to take on ex-contractors. I believe that it may be easier to contract these days. Khavalagi would know.

[ClunkintheUK]

I was a freelance analyst/programmer with the emphasis on analysis. Mainly using the Cobol language. I worked mostly for major organisations (Banks, insurance and retail). After the introduction of IR35, it became very difficult to comply and still be better off than working in permanent roles and companies were reluctant to take on ex-contractors. I believe that it may be easier to contract these days. Khavalagi would know.


Bu**er, thats exactly what I am trying to do at the moment, different languages, but otherwise word perfect.

[Luckypants]

I was a freelance analyst/programmer with the emphasis on analysis. Mainly using the Cobol language. I worked mostly for major organisations (Banks, insurance and retail). After the introduction of IR35, it became very difficult to comply and still be better off than working in permanent roles and companies were reluctant to take on ex-contractors. I believe that it may be easier to contract these days. Khavalagi would know.Totally second that.(I am in Systems Programming / Performance)

I'll also have to work until I'm 70 due largely to the tax on dividends paid to pension funds introduced by Gormless Brown.

[ClunkintheUK]

Sorry to derail, but on the dividends to pension funds, is there anything preventing your contractor limited company from investing directly in shares? I.e. you pay yourself your dividends for life in general, but then instead of paying dividends which you put into a pension fund, you use that money to buy shares, owned by the company?

[Luckypants]

Clunk, you misunderstood I think. I did not pay pensions contributions to my pension fund in the form of dividends from my contractor company. These would be (rightly) taxed. It is EARNED income that is free from income tax when paid as pension contributions, so my pension contributions were made as earnings. This is not what I'm talking about.

What Gormless did was to remove the income tax exemption on dividends paid on shares held by the pension providers as the investments underpinning everyone's pensions. This cut the income to those pension funds by 25% (then) at a stroke and effectively made a massive cut in the growth pension funds could achieve. Net result is there is now a massive pension provision shortfall (not all Gormless's fault, granted) and those of us with personal pension provision will have to work longer before we can afford to retire. Those in company schemes have seen their entitlements cut, final salary schemes close and contributions increase. Those with government backed pensions were not affected by this as these are paid from taxation and current members contributions AFAIK.

YMMV.

/derail

[ClunkintheUK]

Ahh, thanks. Yes, I misunderstood. I knew Gormless basically raided the pension funds (in 2003 I think) but didn't know exactly how, as it was a little before I was thinking of these things, and I've always seen the income tax on my pension. It's the main reason I am thinking on how to provide my own retirement income without a pension. Thanks for clarifying.

[embee]

History is written by the powerful and they rarely support anyone from the "left".So Winston was great while Attlee is mostly forgotten.And so it goes on.
As one Russian leader once said (paraphrased, I forget who it was), it's easy to predict the future with certainty, the past is a lot more difficult.

[Heorot]

I funded my pension when I operated through a limited company by having a private pension with the contributions paid out of company earnings before tax. When I was forced by IR35 to fold my company, I paid the contributions out of my permanent income. I used the company dividends to invest in shares via a self select share Isa, thus avoiding paying tax on profits. If you choose this route, most on-line brokers offer the chance of creating a test portfolio to practice with before taking the plunge. Be aware though, this is a fairly risky way of investing. I invest though The Share Centre.