Fear is slowing me down. Any help?

[ZER0]

Hello people.

I'm really struggling and could use some advise...

I did a lovely 365 mile trip to North Wales yesterday. Did the great Horse Shoe Pass and surrounding areas.

There were 8 of us on different bikes; my SV650S, an SV1000, a CBR600, a S1000RR, a Ninja 600, a 1000 Fireblade, a Sprint ST1050 and an Aprilia 1000 something. So mine was the baby of the group! It kept up no problem though, and I could have been much quicker.

Which is where my issue is. In the corners on the tight twisty roads, I just have no confidence.

Every single corner the gap between me and them just increased till I couldn't even see them. (That's not a problem, I told them to go on and knew they would be waiting for me.)

My issue is in the corners. I just feel the bike is going to low side, or go wide. And I'm stopping looking through the corner to look at the gravel in the road, which completely messes up my line. Even seeing the bike in front kick up dust freaked me out and I slowed up!

I had a crash years ago, broke my wrist really bad and had to get screwed back together. The front washed out coming to a roundabout in the wet, and I really think that is constantly in my mind. It's almost as if I'm expecting to come off at any minute.

I tried following their lines, brakes when they did etc, but it just felt like I was going in too hot and I hit the breaks.

Has anyone else had this, suffered from this fear or what seems like post traumatic stress? What can I do about it?

Obviously experience helps, and one of the riders that spent a bit of time behind me said I was taking the racing line and should turn in a bit later. But I'm still concentrating too much on what's on the road instead of through the corners.

Sorry for the long post.
Any help or advise is greatly appreciated

[Runako]

There are all sorts of things people will tell you in a minute, but there's a couple of things I wanted to say.

First: Most of us go through this sort of period at some point, maybe regardless of experience. It can happen as a new rider, coming back from a crash, an extremely close call or coming back from a long break of not riding. It is mostly psychological.

Secondly: Part of the psychology that works for me is being comfortable on your bike. That doesn't mean getting a gel seat for your backside. It means getting familiar with the feel of your beast. It is an absolute mistake to compare yourself to another (better) rider going along the same stretch of road. For the most part this is a distraction if its done consciously.

What to do? Get the feeling for your bike and what it can do. That means, know what it feels like to brake really hard, know what it feels like when its cranked right over, go as slowly as possible without putting your foot down, practice some figure of eights in a car park to get your vision and turning right, learn to use all the facets of the bike including the back brake.

Do all of the above and you will get a better feel for what needs improving. If you find the brakes are spongy or the front forks dive really badly, then consider changing or modifying them to get a better feel. If the clipons don't give you enough leverage because you're a more upright rider, get some adjustable ones or risers. It will make a world of difference to ease of handling. If your rearsets are too high/low to allow you to shift your weight in all directions while on the move or operate the back brake/gearchange lever without discomfort, consider getting more suitable ones.

I promise you that once you become more comfortable with the bike, you will start to find its true capability. Eventually, with more experience, you'll look for a better bike once you start to exceed the SV's capabiity. But you should be seeing scraped footpegs, bobbly rear tires, thin brake discs and several sets of knee sliders (if that's your thing) before you you do.

[nutzboutbikes]

Hello mate,


I think you have nailed it really, keep looking at where you want to go and the bike will follow.


The bike in 9 out of 10 situations will always lean further and corner faster than you think, getting the suspension set up for your weight and riding style will aid confidence.


Maybe you could try a novice track day and take some tuition, its one of the best and safest way to gain confidence in the corners.

[wideguy]

Wide lines into tight corners you can't see through are a good idea, gives you a chance to check for gravel etc. in the corner, but a quick look is all you should take, enough to see that it's clean or to pick a clean line, or to discover that it tightens up, then you need to look through the corner. Don't try to follow other people's lines or use their brake points, pick your own. If you follow close, look past the rider ahead, not at them. If you aren't confident that you can put your tires on a clean line in a dirty corner, slow down and tiptoe through. Practice picking lines through clean corners and familiar corners. When you can hit them consistently, you'll have confidence in hitting a clean line through a dirty corner.
Take an on track school oriented towards safe street riding if you can find one, if not, sign up for a track day anyway, it's the best and safest way to learn and build confidence.
Most of all, ride a pace that's comfortable for you. Charging up to a corner when your brain is telling you to slow down will almost never result in a well executed corner, almost always the opposite. Slow in, fast out is a safe street riding technique and will make it easier to keep up with more experienced riders. Overriding while trying to keep up will make you fall behind even faster. Opening the throttle wide between corners will slow you down on the street, try to establish a rhythm that's comfortable. Stay loose on the controls, don't gorilla grip the bars and try to force the bike to hold a line. Practice following your eyes with your head and your upper body. Letting your upper body follow your head into a turn will automatically get you a push on the inside bar. You don't need to move around on the bike unless you've seriously misjudged your corner entry speed or the corner tightens up, but if you lean your head and upper body into the turn enough to lift your outside cheek off the seat a bit, everything will feel very good.
Sorry for the long post.

[Bibio]

sounds like you are paranoid about gravel. unless its a huge massive patch covering a good 10-20ft then there is no need to worry as you will ride through it before the bike will slide out, you might get a little wiggle but thats about it. the secret is to keep a constant throttle, the last thing you want to do is shut the throttle or worse hit the brakes.

what your doing just now is called 'target fixation' and you are doing it because you are looking for hazards and when you spot one you concentrate too much on that rather than just riding through it.

stop looking for things that 'might' cause you problems and concentrate more on whats up ahead. you will see potential hazards sooner if you look further ahead so get your head up and eyes open and stop looking 10ft in front of you. if you spot a hazard sooner then you can correct your line to avoid it.

racing lines are fine on race tracks but dont belong on public roads, use the 'tracks' (the 2 lines that cars make) as these will mostly be clear of any hazards as cars have cleared the way. move to the left 'track' for a right hand bend and move to the right 'track' for a left hand bend and dont cut the corner but rather follow the 'track' all the way round. single track roads are a bit different and i would advise to mostly stay over to the left unless you can see the way ahead is clear then you can use all of the available width.

slow in, constant throttle then wind the power on out when you can see your exit, until you see your exit then keep a constant throttle on.

[SvNewbie]

I'm sure you've read most of what the guys have already told you before, and it's great advice, but surprisingly difficult to follow.

One thing which I found gave me a confidence boast was to go off-roading. I found the fact that the bike was constantly moving underneath you and learning that you could get it very out of shape without coming off really improved my confidence level when it comes to those tiny little movements a road bike makes as it finds its way down the road.

Unfortunately the weather has started turning a bit nicer now so you may not have the joy of constant slippery mud but it's great fun and definitely worth doing IMO.

[Corny Gizmo]

Twist of the wrist two. covers all these points and more. I found it really helped me, but as you say you need to build experience/confidence

[johnnyrod]

I can identify with your fears, and I would suggest you go on a bit of a training beano. There are two sets of skills, roads skills and track/going fast skills. The former is all about what's about to happen next, like how to see round a corner. The latter is all about machine control really, but if you feel like you know how it is going to respond to what you tell it, this adds a degree of confidence.

I had to go through a little of this with my father in law, even something as simple as learning what real throttle control means (control of front end grip) can give you a big step up.

[Ch00]

Faster is not always better!

Take your time, and with the better weather on the way the extra miles will get you use to the feel of the bike.

[jambo]

First up, the fact other people are faster than you is genuinely not a problem.

I spent years as the captain slow of my group of riders and to a reasonable extent still am. This is fine. If you would like to be more confident then some time on track and some riding with something like Bikesafe, ROSPA or IAM can help someone give you advice on how you ride, and what you could change.

Ultimately most of the times I've had a near miss was when I was trying to ride at a pace I wasn't comfortable at to keep up with a faster rider. I try not to do that any more and it seems to be saving me stress and money :)

If you want to be a better rider then you need to be confident in yourself and the bike. Having someone check over the bike who you trust can be helpful, working on your own riding is a great place to invest time and money as it automatically transfers if you change bikes :)

Jambo

[Steve_God]

Recommended already, but to hammer it home:
- IAM (or another advanced riding course)
- A track day

Track day purely for learning how the bike handles nearer the extremes, and understanding that the bike will allow you to tip in WAY further than you would ever be able to on the road.

Advanced riding for then using that knowledge of your bike, in a safe, yet progressive way.

[aesmith]

Have you got decent tyres, at the correct pressures? My SV feels much steadier on the Michelins.

[Balky001]

Nothing new here mate. Your concerns are overriding your faith/ability which is not a surprise given you crashed.

The more you start to feel what is going on, you will be more confident it will be less dramatic. Don't ignore the danger signs, look for gravel, but don't stare and talk yourself out of riding how you feel you should be. The first person who responded response succinctly put all the advice you really need.

If I was you (and I have been there twice!!) ride on your own, feel the bike (slow at first, build up over days/weeks/months, it is a skill for life), really try and feel what the bike is telling you rather than falling in to bad habits, rushing in, overriding the feedback with too much worry. Obviously it is a balance, if you think something doesn't feel right then back off, but make sure you understand why you did it. End of the day, nobody gives a monkeys how quick you are, who wants to ride with someone pushing their ability. Just try and enjoy it, which means learning to corner, thinking about entry, mid and exit speed and break it down.

The guys I ride with are top riders, hardly ever use the brakes on the road except coming in to tight corners from fast straight, it is all about flow and feel. They spend half their life on track where heavy braking saves time but on the road, you can keep up with anything using proper throttle input, gears and positioning. If you are grabbing the brake, slow your entry speed, get good sight, smooth through, carry speed rather than brake/accelerate as going in to quick, unsettling the bike. If you are too slow in, you get on the gas and run wide. Entry speed is key.

The one thing that could tighten your cornering (apart from the obvious, positioning, lines, body position, lean angle) is making sure you are in the right gear and coming off the throttle helps pull it in to the corner without needing to brake. Means higher revs but it helps with running wide, but you need to practice, don't do it all in one go. And enjoy every corner!! And read Sport Riding Techniques http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sport-Riding-Techniques-Develop-Confidence/dp/1893618072

[ZER0]

Thanks guys, I knew I'd get some good points on here.

I do really try hard to look as far ahead as possible, which works great, but found that mid corner I focus on whats on the road right there.

There were a couple of little 'wiggles' from the back...it scared the life out of me! This is where a track day may be a good idea, learning that a bit of a wobble, or leaning over more, isn't going to send me flying. (It isn't right?)

I like the idea of practicing taking different lines on clean corners that I know. I don't have this issue on corners I regularly ride. It's more on ones I don't know.

It's not just an issue with gravel, it's if the corner looks dirty, gravely, wet etc. Even a bit of over flow water across the road from the lakes/rivers freak me out. Even if it's only half a meter wide.

I did look at the RideSafe website a few weeks ago too, so will look at doing one of those.

My tyres are Mitchelin Road Pilot 2. They were an mot advisory, but just that they were getting low and wouldn't last the year. I checked the pressure the night before the ride and they were 32 front and 35 back. I've got prices for upgrading to the 4s.

I've got no problem with being the slow one in the group, or making them wait at the end of a stretch, I'd rather get there a few minutes later than not at all. But I do want to feel more comfortable and confidant. Like I said in the OP, it's like I'm expecting to come off at any minute. Which sucks.

Thanks again for the responses, keep them coming if you think of anything else.

Thanks for the couple of suggestions on books too. I'll do some research on those.

[sputnik]

Can't add much to what everyone else has said because it is pretty much all good stuff. Ride your own ride and it is better to start off easy and build it up than going hell for leather and spooking yourself out. Lord knows, most of us have made the mistake of emulating what others do. I find one of the biggies is to make sure you make yourself relax. Buttocks need not be clenched. Hands and wrists should be resting on bars, not hard-gripping and pushing down. Shoulders should be dropped and your elbows should always be able to do the funky chicken! Tenseness can creep in unnoticed, and it generally results in a crappy, non-smooth, nerve racking ride. Oh, and have a pee before you set off - badly needing a **** makes for all the above tensions coming into play!:shaking:

[NTECUK]

This might help
http://www.think.norfolk.gov.uk/downloads.asp?i=156

[Bibio]

there is nothing to fear but the IDEA of fear.

[NTECUK]

there is nothing to fear but the IDEA of fear.
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


― Frank Herbert, Dune

[johnnyrod]

That and lions. Hungry ones, chasing you. With guns. Lots of guns.

[Red Herring]

Normally on threads like this my advice is as per 90% of what everybody else has said, fear tells you you're riding beyond your comfort zone/ability so don't ignore it, instead concentrate on identifying and understanding how you can improve your ability.......

However picking up on a comment you made above about your tyres being an "advisory" how exactly are they worn? Profile is usually far more important than tread depth and if you have a squared off rear tyre from to many motorway miles then this will make the bike very twitchy and nervous as you turn into bends. Likewise a front tyre that has badly worn shoulders will tend to track badly once into a bend giving a very vague feel to the front. As a general guide anything flat is bad, a nice round uniform profile is generally good.

[shiftin_gear98]

Regards the tyres, change them sharpish, you won't regret it.


My bike was recently serviced, I knew the tyres were getting low, but not worn out. The mechanic test rode it and advised I change the front tyre as it was affecting the handling. I hadn't really noticed the tyre was affecting the handling as I rode it everyday. Got the bike back and wow, I love new tyres.
Out of interest they were / are PR4's. Got the rear changed too as the 6000 mile BMW donut needed changing..

[ophic]

Regarding tyres, when I used to do a long motorway commute, I only ever really rode on motorways and roundabouts. Hence the front tyre only wore in the middle and on one side. I say the front because it was quite marked - presumeably the rear suffered just the same.

Made for interesting handling anyway - it needed steering input to stay in a straight line, a bit like a misaligned rear. It happens gradually so you barely notice until you go for a weekend blat.