Published photos?

[Sir Trev]

I've been contacted through Flikr by a chap asking for permission to use one of my photos from the tour of the St Pancras station hotel I had the other week in a book he's compiling. Do any of you have any experience of how this works? He's mentioned credit but is there anything else I need to ask?

[Littlepeahead]

Yes a fee. At least £100. And that's for the initial run only not reprinted or to promote the book and you retain the copyright.

If you give your pic away for free you are putting a pro photographer out of business.

The author wouldn't expect the printer to print it free, the shop to sell it without a cut etc so should not expect free pics and a credit don't pay the rent!

[Amadeus]

If you give your pic away for free you are putting a pro photographer out of business.

Not sure I agree with that sentiment, however true it may be. The world is changing. I was paid a lot more per hour back in the day, the world has changed, more people available to do what I can for cheaper. Supply and demand.
That said, I don't want anyone to lose their job. I imagine Sir Trev would think it's cool to have his photo in a book. Boost to the ego! :-)

Sorry for the derail.

[Littlepeahead]

And sadly a lot of publishers exploit people these days because they think if they go to an amateur (that isn't meant as an insult Sir Trev) then they can get what they want free by saying 'you'll get a credit' and the photographer will take flattery in lieu of payment.

If he's producing a book he should have budgeted for imagery - any budget he doesn't spend goes in his pocket - yet the photographer has bought the gear, the software etc and we know how much that costs so why should he make money out of you for nothing?

[ophic]

If he's producing a book he should have budgeted for imagery - any budget he doesn't spend goes in his pocket - yet the photographer has bought the gear, the software etc and we know how much that costs so why should he make money out of you for nothing?

Unless he's counting on getting images for free, in which case there is no budget, and he might just use a similar image from someone else, and they get the credit instead of Trev.

[Sir Trev]

Thanks for the comments all. And no offence taken Clare :cool:

I really wasn't sure if asking for a fee was the done thing or not so I'll go back to the chap and suggest we discus one. If he flat refuses then I won't lose any sleep if he does not use the image. Interestingly he asked if I had any other shots of the interior too.

Will report back on the outcome.

[Littlepeahead]

Unless he's counting on getting images for free, in which case there is no budget, and he might just use a similar image from someone else, and they get the credit instead of Trev.

True, sadly true. But say you are for instance a window cleaner and you've been cleaning windows and doing a good job, got the proper ladders, cloths and insurance and have built up a client base, advertised your services and built a reputation. One day you find out that another window cleaner, Fred, is now available in your area. You have competition. Well fair enough you think, I have to compete with him, I have to offer good but fair prices and provide an excellent service. That's the open market.

Then you find out the new window cleaner is actually a teacher/doctor/bus driver/insert profession of your choice. However he's decided to take up cleaning windows as a hobby, and clean windows just for fun, and he'll do it for FREE. In return people put a sticker on their windows saying 'Fred cleaned my windows, FREE! What a top bloke. Get him to clean yours free too!'

Now how can you compete with that - you wouldn't go and sit in his classroom teaching his kids/prescribe drugs for his patients/sit in the driver seat of his bus yet he is giving away the service you charge for. You may as well just give up.

And that's what it's about. The photographers don't mind the competition between professionals. They don't even mind an amateur taking a great photo that a publisher wishes to use for a fee. But what really really hacks them off is publishers offering a credit instead of a payment.

[ophic]

Markets change. People who get put out of work as a result, grumble, and I sympathise. But it'll change anyway and you can't stop it.

Send Fred round my house please!

[Amadeus]

Markets change. People who get put out of work as a result, grumble, and I sympathise. But it'll change anyway and you can't stop it.

Exactly my point.

[Littlepeahead]

Just out of interest, are either of you professional photographers?

[Amadeus]

No, but I don't think that matters; certainly I'm not putting a downer on Sir Trev's thread, his abilities and achievements or indeed yours.

[Littlepeahead]

What I meant was, pro or amateur, photographers should be paid if their photos are to be published in a commercial way, in this case a book that has a cover price. The author will expect to make money on sales.

I get calls all the time like this, can we use a photo of Lord's for this or that book, no we don't want to pay. Since they will be paying the editor, typesetter, PR company, and for the printing and distribution why should the photographer be the only one working for free?

So my point is, yes Sir Trev, allow them a one off licence to use your pic, but make them pay something for the privilege.

[Sir Trev]

Surprise surprise - he now has now sourced "other images" which will be sufficient for his book.

FWIW I completely agree with Clare on this. Banking on the lack of knowledge or, dare I say it, gullibility of the uninformed he was quite possibly hoping to save a few quid. There's a good chance he has done just that with images from someone else on the Open House tours that weekend and may even have searched Flikr using those very tags. I shan't lose too much sleep over it.

[mister c]

Some of my pictures from this year's Tandragee 100 races are going to be used in next year's programme. I didn't want any money for them as I feel quite privileged to be asked. It does mean that I'm going to have to go again next year to buy the programme though :)