MotoGP - contains spoilers.

[Matt-EUC]

If you don't want spoilers, stop reading now.









So, the Rossi v Marquez incident. I've watched it 20 or 30 times in slow motion. It looks to me as though it was predominantly Marc's fault. He leant on Rossi and probably threw him off balance, hence the leg movement to regain stability.

Race direction have given him 3 points on his licence and put him to the back of the grid for the final race. If they haven't already, I think they should look into it more thoroughly and interview the riders.


What are your thoughts?

[Amadeus]

Seen it. Seemed malicious to me. Buckled under pressure. Think of leguna secs a couple of years ago, very competitive racing and all fair game. Marc has not changed, Rossi buckled. I think he got away very lightly indeed.

[Sir Trev]

Marc seemed to be goading him and Vale snapped. Not saying he handled it that well but Vale seemed to be deliberately pushing Marc towards the edge of the track. Did Marc deliberately make contact? Was Vale's leg movement involuntary as a consequence?? Has number 46 lost a few fans as a result???

Valencia will be interesting with Rossi at the back of the grid and it's a shame that less was made of Danni's excellent win.

[EssexDave]

You see people running others wide in racing all the time. It's more noticeable in bike racing, but look at some of the running wide incidents in F1 and other car racing.

That being said, Rossi was very blatantly doing it, and I don't actually have a problem with that as a racing manoeuvre to try and make an overtake stick. The frustrating thing for Rossi (& his fans), is that to me at least, it is clear that marquez accelerates and hits rossi, where his leg comes off.

Both riders in my opinion are to blame, maybe Rossi more so, but I think those penalty points are a little harsh. Given that the appeal has been rejected, that's that and so the championship will all depend on upon whether Rossi can finish within 6 points of Lorenzo. At Valencia, I'm not so sure.

[Red Herring]

I think it's just a case of two extremely talented riders putting it on the line to beat each other in a race, which is exactly what we want. They had both exchanged some pretty tough overtakes on each other and this was clearly frustrating Rossi as he could see his team mate getting away. He saw an opportunity to run Marquez wide, hopefully across the astra turf, which would have allowed him to make a break for it, so he went for it. Than in itself isn't very sporting, but it wasn't exactly dangerous. In the slow-mo you can see Rossi looking straight at Marquez and his forks moving as he moderates his throttle to stay alongside him. Marquez then deliberately turns into Rossi in an effort to force him up, they collide, and Marquez comes off. I've been on both sides of that move and I've never seen the rider on the outside win.... Marquez really should have known better.

My view is to tell them both to grow up, lets go racing in Spain, and lets put Rossi and Marquez next to each other on the grid, I don't particularly care at which end. It's going to be brilliant!

[MattCollins]

Rossi's actions weren't racing and regardless of what people think Marquez was or wasn't doing I have a hard time believing that anyone would try to make excuses for Rossi.

[Red Herring]

I'm not making excuses for Rossi, what he did wasn't very sporting but he didn't knock Marquez off.

[MattCollins]

I'm not making excuses for Rossi, what he did wasn't very sporting but he didn't knock Marquez off.

That comment was not directed at you, but at the gazillion comments across the web supporting and making excuses for Rossi.

It was that unsporting behaviour that directly resulted in a rider down. Racing doesn't need it... and that is what he was penalised for.

[Redmist]

My view point before Malaysia:

Rossi winning another championship before starting the final chapter of his racing career: Fantastic, all the best to you, hope you do it mate.

During the race I was loving every moment of the duel between Rossi and Marquez and it was clear that Marquez was riding at his usual level, eager to race and I was hoping for 20 more laps of the same!!

Rossi's actions were misguided as best, he has been building up frustrations within himself from Phillip island.
They finally got the better of him. For me he dropped the ball and a deserving champion would not be drawn into such games. He could've finished the race fourth and we'd have an amazing showdown in Valencia.
He only has himself to blame for where he is now NOT Marquez.

After Malaysia: Rossi gone way down in my estimation, the GOAT title hanging by a thread, if indeed he ever had it.

[Amadeus]

They must have slowed down to about 30mph - talk about letting anger take over!

[carelesschucca]

I had a look at the offical results sheets as I run a wee MotoGP dreamteam in work. Its shows riders average speeds through the race... Strangely enough Marc Marquez has almost got the lowest. Dunno if thats to do with the crash or down to the fact he was trying to screw someone over...

[STRAMASHER]

That press conference on Thursday and Rossi made a rod for his own back.

He lost the rag in the race and has paid the consequences for the next race.

Dissapointed TBH. He has enough savvy to nerf somebody without making it so bloody obvious! Basic stuff!

[Amadeus]

Dunno if thats to do with the crash or down to the fact he was trying to screw someone over...


Do you really think he was? And just that race or the previous one as well?

[carelesschucca]

I find it very strange that in the previous race he was sitting well behind Lorenzo and was dicing and tangling with Rossi until the very last moments when he did the fastest lap of the race and caught up remarkably quickly and passed Lorenzo. Just look at the gap he made up... I find it very strange.

[carelesschucca]

Before I get accused of being biased. I am a huge fan of Marc Marquez I think his talent on a bike is second to none. I'd also hope that my current feelings are wrong.

For me there's only one rider out of the top four that hasn't been tarnished by this in some way and thats Dani.

Dorna and the FIM have done brilliantly though. They could have taken the points off Rossi, finishing the title. Doing it this way they've set up the chance for an amazing finish. The viewing figures will be massive round the world.

[Amadeus]

It's gonna have to be quite some event for him to be able to win. I don't question Rossi's ability to get up to 4th which pretty much means Lorenzo has to win. Now Rossi has burned so many bridges, I doubt he'll be able to get psat 4th. Would be remarkable if he wins the championship now.

[NTECUK]

Go Rossi fingers crossed for him.


But yes he did spit the dummy.
But it's not without provercation

[Red Herring]

Work it out for yourselves.

Dani and Marquez get the drop at the start, followed by Rossi who paces them. Lorenzo recovers from his start, catches and passes Rossi who is still sitting behind Marquez.

Marquez then makes a "mistake" and Lorenzo passes easily. Rossi then has to work like mad to pass Marquez whilst watching Lorenzo and Dani, with whom he had been holding station until then, slowly pull away. Rossi eventually passes Marquez really cleanly and starts to pull in Lorenzo, Marquez suddenly finds some pace, keeps up with Rossi and then several laps of excitement begin as he mixes it with Rossi at every opportunity and the pair of them drop back from Lorenzo and Dani. Watch the race again and see just how often when Marquez was right in the middle of a fast bend Rossi would suddenly close with him and either have to roll off or change line. On a couple of the onboard clips it"s really obvious what was going on.

Then look at the last move Marquez pulled on Rossi, the one immediately before the final incident. He chopped his front wheel across a kerb at something like 130mph....
Rossi lost his rag and he shouldn't have been so obvious, but on the other hand Marquez jolly well deserved it!

[carelesschucca]

How big a cheer will there be if Lorenzo bins it first lap trying to get past on of the Ducati's, you can see CrazyJoe taking him out...

[Red Herring]

I hope Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Marquez qualify on the front row at Valencia so they can clear off together and have a huge dice in front of their home crowd. They'll all want the win so that bit should be good fun.

Meanwhile Rossi is going to do what he does best, spend the weekend setting up his bike for race pace and then working his way through the field until he's sitting in a nice comfortable 4th.

The icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned is if Marquez and Lorenzo take each other out fighting over second place, because i think the one Spanish gentleman in the paddock, Pedrosa, is going to show them the way!

[Matt-EUC]

the one Spanish gentleman in the paddock, Pedrosa, is going to show them the way!


Both Marquez and Lorenzo are also Spanish.

[rowdy]

That press conference on Thursday and Rossi made a rod for his own back.

He lost the rag in the race and has paid the consequences for the next race.

Dissapointed TBH. He has enough savvy to nerf somebody without making it so bloody obvious! Basic stuff!

That press conference on Thursday pretty much saved Rossi's bacon. It put the spotlight on Marquez. Race direction even agreed with Rossi that Marquez tried to screw him over, if Rossi hadn't pointed this out in the press conference he just might have got a harsher penalty.

Red herring has called it spot on IMO, and for that reason Marquez has spoilt this championship. If Lorenzo wins it will be seen as gifted through the help of Marquez (who I believe has done it for his own benefit so he can eventually win more championships than Rossi) and if Rossi wins people will say he shouldn't have because of this incident.

Marquez tipped into Rossi and nutted his knee with his lid. Both played dirty IMO.

[Red Herring]

Both Marquez and Lorenzo are also Spanish.

Yes Matt, they are.

[Matt-EUC]

Just pointing out what appeared to be a mistake. Unless of course you meant the one GENTLEMAN who is Spanish.

[Red Herring]

I knew you would get there in the end.... :)

[Redmist]

Marquez suddenly finds some pace, keeps up with Rossi and then several laps of excitement begin as he mixes it with Rossi at every opportunity and the pair of them drop back from Lorenzo and Dani. Watch the race again and see just how often when Marquez was right in the middle of a fast bend Rossi would suddenly close with him and either have to roll off or change line. On a couple of the onboard clips it"s really obvious what was going on.


I think the carrot dangling in front of Marquez was enlarged by being provoked himself on Thursday, nothing to help speed you up more than being called out!!

The yams have always carried more corner speed than Hondas for the past 3 years.


Then look at the last move Marquez pulled on Rossi, the one immediately before the final incident. He chopped his front wheel across a kerb at something like 130mph....
Rossi lost his rag and he shouldn't have been so obvious, but on the other hand Marquez jolly well deserved it!

No one that has raced at motogp level can claim innocence when it comes to harsh overtakes, Rossi has dished out plenty, even leading upto the final incident. It happens all the time its just this time Rossi let it get to him and put himself in a position to get penalised. Maybe Marquez deserved it I don't know but you can't go around saying "Poor old Rossi", "Marquez ruined everything" (Not that you did say that, but some are :) )

Rossi made his own mind up to take action on track to stop racing and "muck about" the consequences that have occurred may well be undeserved but he could've avoided it. simples.

[NTECUK]

No one that has raced at motogp level can claim innocence when it comes to harsh overtakes but you can't go around saying "Poor old Rossi", "Marquez ruined everything" (Not that you did say that, but some are :) )
s.
Yep poor Rossi. The Spanish film club are throwing pop corn in ya milk shake.
Go Rossi GOAT

[Viney]

Who cares who did what to Whom. Its gonna be one hell of a final race :)

[Matt-EUC]

Any thoughts on the overtake under a yellow flag? Not a single word was said about that despite it being quite obvious.

[NTECUK]

Your reference to this?
https://youtu.be/M-GCyvTJ0aI

[Matt-EUC]

Yes.

[Red Herring]

I thought that yellow flag went out for the slowing Ducati that was just behind them, so it wasn't out as they approached the corner.

[ZER0]

I do genuinely think Marc was out to harass Rossi.

As he was in the last race; it's just too much of a coincidence that Marc did the fastest lap of the race (not his personal fastest, the fastest of everyone in the whole race!) on the very last lap, and suddenly managed to leave Rossi behind, catch Lorenzo, overtake him and take the win.

I think Marc's running wide this week when Lorenzo passed was real, but he certainly didn't put up any fight or chase him down. But then spent ages fighting with Rossi. Marc was definitely slowing down, he admitted that himself, but he blames the feel from the tyres.

I am a huge Rossi fan and I'm all for a good battle, and don't think for a second that Rossi should be handed the title. But Marc could have started pulling away from Rossi, but instead slowed down, messing up his race deliberately and watching Lorenzo pull away.

Even Race Director Mike Webb agrees with all of that. In Race Controls official statement he said "...our opinion was that there was some fault on both sides, but as far as the rulebook goes Marquez did not make any contact, did not break any rules as such, but we feel that his behaviour was causing problems to Rossi who reacted. Unfortunately he reacted in a way that is against the rules.”

Yes, Rossi was in the wrong for running Marc wide, but he didn't make him crash. That was Marc leaning on Rossi. And there was no kick, as is clear from the helicopter footage.

I think Rossi should be penalised for his reaction, I'm not sure how though, but so should Marc for his behaviour. All I know is that making Rossi start from the back makes it almost impossible for him to win now. Which is such a shame as he came 2nd last year and has had a fantastic year. Leading the championship pretty much the whole year, and only being off the podium twice. That's pretty good going, especially for a 36 year old. (Not that that's old in real life terms of course, but for a racer going against people like Marc who's 22 it must be a factor.)

[Amadeus]

The topic of taking responsibility for your actions has been discussed many times before. It happens in all walks of life and this time it happened to Rossi.
No one has a right to say how others should run their race. For example, as Marquez knew his championship was over but he could learn by battling Rossi, is that not up to him? Similarly to the back markers who gather data and riders who have crashed continuing to circuit to get more data.

[Red Herring]

No one has a right to say how others should run their race. For example, as Marquez knew his championship was over but he could learn by battling Rossi, is that not up to him? Similarly to the back markers who gather data and riders who have crashed continuing to circuit to get more data.

I'm sure your right. Marquez had obviously decided he wanted to practice being overtaken because when was the last time you saw him being passed eight times in a couple of laps..... In fact, you'd be hard pressed to think of eight times he's been overtaken all season.....! It probably had nothing to do with screwing up Rossi's race.

[NTECUK]

:winner:Lol

[pookie]

while there is no precedent to racing like that in motogp ( http://www.motogp.com/en/MotoGP+Basics/Flags+Lights) most other sports have a unsportsmanlike conduct

See f1 black and white flag
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/flags_guide/default.stm

Shame because it means marquez can ride to ruin someone elses race.

[Biker Biggles]

Both playing silly buggas.Rossi had most to lose and has duly lost most.He should have kept his cool and his team should have protested MM to the stewards.
FWIW I thought MM let JL past and then deliberately baulked VR several times,possibly in a dangerous manner once or twice.The actual crash was caused by VR replying in kind by running wide and slow,but the slowmo footage actually shows MM accelerating just before they touched when he should have been slowing in order to undercut VR on the exit.MM thus crashed into VR and there was no kick.Lose lose all round and both should know better.

[carelesschucca]

I love the fact everyone is reacting like it hasn't happened before. Anyone remember Capirossi and Harada in 250's? Also the Italian mafia helping Capirex win his 125 championship.... He's now one of the safety advisors.

[BanannaMan]

Best free publicity MotoGP has had in a long time.
And calling it 'posioning the sport' is just more drama from the FIM. :rolleyes:
Despite their claims to the contrary, I think the FIM is playing this for all it's worth.

View from the helicopter shows no kick.
F3gVcdRe1RU

I don't see Rossi losing his cool in any video.
I see Marquez trying to take Rossi out and getting what he deserved.

[NTECUK]

Still looks like marc lent on the Dr......

[Matt-EUC]

That'll be because he did.

[NTECUK]

So why do we need to penalise No46 ???

[AJC]

Looks like Rossi is appealing the decision, good stuff!

[Red Herring]

From what I've heard most of the paddock (with a couple of notable exceptions) think it's a bit off how he's been treated. As Marquez, Lorenzo and Pedroza are pretty much going to occupy the front row it would be nice if the rest of the grid had a get together and all agreed to make a "slow" start and hold position to give Rossi a clear shot down the outside into turn one..... Given how fired up Rossi is going to be it would probably be safer for a few of them as well!

[JulesW]

This debate will rattle on and on, did Rossi kick, did Mark run way too close to Rossi, did Mark bin it on purpose....ad nauseum.

What sealed it for me was seeing Rossi intentionally run Marquez wide. In other words Rossi started the whole incident and Mark was having none of it.

Rossi has made a career out of goading people and getting in their heads. And his fans have loved it!

At Sepang Mark got right inside his head, Rossi's frustration boiled over and he lost the plot.

Bottom line is Rossi started the whole thing when he ran Mark wide....end of.


Not that fond of Marquez and I'm a big Rossi fan, but this time he showed the world his bad side

[JulesW]

From what I've heard most of the paddock (with a couple of notable exceptions) think it's a bit off how he's been treated. As Marquez, Lorenzo and Pedroza are pretty much going to occupy the front row it would be nice if the rest of the grid had a get together and all agreed to make a "slow" start and hold position to give Rossi a clear shot down the outside into turn one..... Given how fired up Rossi is going to be it would probably be safer for a few of them as well!

That Sir would not be racing

[Red Herring]

That Sir would not be racing

No Sir, it would not. Neither though are the politics behind putting Rossi at the back of the grid. Rossi didn't start it when he ran Marquez wide, but he certainly finished it. It wasn't big, it wasn't clever, and it certainly shouldn't have been that obvious...... but the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

[Amadeus]

.

[JulesW]

No Sir, it would not. Neither though are the politics behind putting Rossi at the back of the grid. Rossi didn't start it when he ran Marquez wide, but he certainly finished it. It wasn't big, it wasn't clever, and it certainly shouldn't have been that obvious...... but the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

I respect your opinion Red and I'm a big fan of Rossi. I view his penalty for running MM wide as lenient. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

As a fan of the sport it's horrible to see the championship decided by race control compounded with interference from a rider who is not in the running (MM was f*cking with VR in the last 2 rounds and we all know why [Assen Argentina and recent VR comments]). We, the fans, have all been robbed of a championship that was fairly fought by all parties.

I really hope to see VR in the leading group by lap 4 or 5 without another rider giving any quarter, it's a huge obstacle though.

VR's 10th championship would be all the sweeter if he actually pulled it off

[Bluepete]

I think Rossi didn't behave like the multiple world champion he is.

It's clear that he ran Marquez wide, off the throttle. That's not racing, that's not cheating either, but it's not right.

It was clear on raceday, from the numerous replays that Rossi didn't kick Marquez.

Equally, Marquez didn't bin it on purpose. We've all marveled at his ability, but there are some laws of physics that can't be beat! He tried to turn before running out of track, banged into Rossi and lost it.

I don't know the rules of MOTOGP, so I can't say "The punishment is wrong" but I certainly don't think the grid should allow Rossi through. If the governing body of his sport has imposed that penalty, so be it. If his appeal is allowed, then it will be in line with the rules. Hindsight is always 20-20 after all.

Hopefully, the last race will be an epic David and Goliath battle. Rossi versus the grid.

I, for one, can't wait.

Pete ;)

[Red Herring]

The comment about the grid helping him out was a little tongue in cheek I confess. I guess it's the racer in me wanting to see other racers control their sport rather than a bunch of accountants and businessmen who just see profit margins....

All that aside as Jules and Pete say, I'm rather looking forward to next weekend......

[Ruffy]

... I certainly don't think the grid should allow Rossi through. If the governing body of his sport has imposed that penalty, so be it.
What;s interesting to me about this penalty is the anomaly that a faster rider who catches a slower rider he's about to lap is expected to be able to pass without trouble (blue flag enabled), but here the faster rider will be expected to fight for every inch. (I'm pretty confident that qualifying will show signifcant differences in lap time between Rossi and most of the grid in front of him and we all know that he has the skill to pass pretty much everyone on the grid as well.)

Is this a double standard on rider safety? Have the authorities put mid-grid riders at risk by placing such a faster rider behind them - it can't be easy riding with one eye over your shoulder checking for someone who may simply arrive out of the blue from further back due to much greater speed difference?

Whilst no racer would admit it openly, Rossi is going to come past most of them at some point and, if it were me on a non-factory bike, I think I'd want that to happen sooner rather than later so I could concentrate on my own race and not risk being the one that took him out by cutting him up because I didn't see him coming.

[Spank86]

Id let him past and try to tag along behind to see if I could jump some places. A drawn out battle with him would slow us both down.

[NTECUK]

Well looks like its getting hotter for the powers at be.
https://www.change.org/p/motogp-dorna-amp-fim-remove-the-penalty-from-valentino-rossi-and-bring-back-integrity-to-the-championship?recruiter=411417970&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_facebook_responsive&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-no_msg