Shoulder checks and SV650s position

[Adam Ef]

All my riding so far since getting my SV650s has been out on wide sweeping country roads... until today, when I had to head in to the city. To cut a long story short I was amazed how difficult I'm finding it to do decent shoulder checks when leant forward with the riding position low down on the clip ons. I had one moment where I went round a sharpish lefthand corner in the left hand (Bus, taxi, motorbike) lane and found an HGV parked up immediately in front of me blocking the whole lane on parked double yellows. I luckily managed to slow and nearly pulled out into the right hand lane to go around the HGV and glad I didn't as a car came past that I'd missed seeing as he was past the view point of my mirrors and I thought my shoulder check had let me see all alongside me. So, obviously my shoulder checks are not allowing me to see all of the mirror blind spots, no matter how much I strain to look around.

Checking left is ok as I can let left hand off the bars and sit up slightly, but if I do that with the right I let go of the throttle and would stop.

Does anyone have any tips?

When I first got the bike I had intended to get the top yoke conversion done, but gave the clip ons a chance and actually like the position when I'm doing 50mph+ on open non-city roads. But I do need to be able to get about the city safely too sometimes and came home today not having enjoyed the ride at all as I was straining to look around me and constantly worried I'd missed something. Now thinking maybe I need to sacrifice the decent faster riding position for using the bike to get about in city traffic safely and maybe do need to get the conversion done.

[Dipper]

Stick with 'em, you'll get the hang of it.

[Bibio]

mirror-signal-life saver-manoeuvre.

your only doing the life saver to see if there is a vehicle in your blind spot not too see whats behind you, thats what mirrors are for. if your mirrors are positioned right your life saver should only be between your back wheel and behind your peripheral vision. or do what i do in heavy traffic and turn the mirrors out a little more so they are seeing more of the lane next to me. i also check my mirrors every 10 sec or so to keep an eye on what the traffic is doing behind me. its as much rear observation as front observation that keeps you safe.

[Red Herring]

As Bibio says you need to just keep a regular eye on the traffic behind you using your mirrors and then check your blind spot either when a particular manoeuvre requires it or you have "lost" a vehicle you saw in your mirrors moments earlier and you now need to know where it has gone. Shoulder checks tend to be more important on multi lane roads where a vehicle can lurk in your mirror blind spot for a while so just try and work on your awareness in those situations and keep feeding the need to know what's around you. Once your confidence builds you will find this considerably easier than at the moment when it just feels like everything is coming at you from all directions!

[Red ones]

Came from a moped recently?
I ask because a lot of moped riders turn their head excessively purely because the mirrors vibrate so badly they're useless. That doesn't happen even on an SV.

Use those mirrors to build a mental picture of what's going on behind you. Think "There's a white Hyundai, blue Astra, cyclist, f****ing big lorry, one of those glazing vans with the annoying bit that sticks out the side designed to remove biker ankles" etc. When you check 10 seconds later check that list - where's the blue Astra? How did the red Golf get there? The missing Astra is a problem-is it in the blind spot which is bl**dy massive.
It is very rare something just gets into your blind spot without first being somewhere else. If he came out of a side road then you passed him first.

[Adam Ef]

Thanks for input. In the main scenario yesterday I'd just come around a (fairly sharp) left hand bend so mirrors were not showing what was behind me as car that came alongside was still around corner at that point. Me suddenly slowing and concentrating on the parked HGV meant it came around corner and alongside very soon. I did see it luckily but not the first moment I checked and nearly moved out. Knowing that situations like that are possible took the enjoyment out of every bit of riding the rest of the day and will make it unlikely I'll try and use the SV in the city, but I do need to get about the city from time to time.

To clarify a bit, I know how to do shoulder checks / lifesavers... I was until recently using my upright 125 around town and had no problems. If anything on my training I was told that I shoulder check almost too much. The main issue I'm having now is that I just can't turn my head around enough in the lower riding position to see as much as I could on the more upright bike as my shoulder is in the way being lower down.

Wondering if I do just need to get more of an upright position and do the Top Yoke conversion.

Or does anyone have any secret tips for getting head angled around with shoulder in the way? I did read something that someone suggested looking under your arm instead of over shoulder, but it doesn't work for me.

[Adam Ef]

I also had no problems looking around on the Honda CBF600 bikes we used for training.

[Red Herring]

Sounds to me as if you're actually trying to look around to far. A shoulder check is just that, a look to your side to check the area forward of your mirror view and behind you straight ahead eye line. You use it when moving sideways as in a lane change, or when lanes are merging and traffic may be joining from the side. A life saver is a proper look behind and covers not only the shoulder check but also some of the rear view afforded by properly adjusted mirrors. You tend to use it either before pulling away from the kerb or when turning right off a main road. The real value of the lifesaver is it forces you to take the time to have a proper look behind but also sends a really visible message to anyone behind you as to where you might be going next.....

[Adam Ef]

Could be I'm trying to cover too much. Just the experience yesterday seemed to prove that my shoulder check wasn't adequate enougfh. It wasn't a full lifesaver as I wasn't stationary, just trying to glance at my blindspot after mirrors to check, but can't have checked properly until the second glance (which I'm glad I took), otherwise I'd have been out in front of a passing car. I was trying to suddenly slow but keep moving avoiding going in to the back of the HGV and dealing with a situation that unfolded quite quickly. The real problem was that the HGV was parked up on double yellows just round a blind corner on a fairly fast road, but wrong or right these situations will occur, so I want to be as best prepared and equiped as possible to deal with them.

Several times in the day I felt I wasn't getting a good enough look alongside with me with shoulderchecks though, with my shoulder stopping me turning my head sufficiently. Made me very wary riding and really didn't enjoy it.

Has anyone had the Top Yoke bar conversion done and found it helps with observations?

[Balky001]

As Red says, maybe you are looking too far. It really is a quick glance just in case you missed anything in your mirrors or some courier riding is trying to make up time! If you are using your mirrors frequently then it helps.

In town you are looking at 100 different dangers as opposed to lanes where you may be looking at half a dozen. Once you get your head round that, and the fact nobody uses their mirrors or indicators, then riding through towns and cities can be fun. I commuted on the SV650S and GSXR and never found the riding position to be awkward unless in very slow moving traffic where is was impossible to filter. The level of concentration needed can be a bit overwhelming at first.

[Swin]

I would recommend getting some mirror risers, they only stick the mirrors out by an extra inch or so, but the amount of extra rear vision is incredible

[maviczap]

I would recommend getting some mirror risers, they only stick the mirrors out by an extra inch or so, but the amount of extra rear vision is incredible

This, improves rear view greatly :thumleft:

[Adam Ef]

This, improves rear view greatly :thumleft:

Cheers.

Looks promising.. any idea where to get them? All links seem to be to USA eBay.

[maviczap]

Curvy - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mirror-Extenders-Spacers-Suzuki-1999-2002-SV650S-SV650-SV-650-650S-2000-2001-/252279458301?hash=item3abd0709fd:m:mPxyJh6XqjXgsH3 8gl-woMw

Pointy - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-Mirrors-Extender-Spacer-Adaptor-Fit-Suzuki-SV1000-S-03-09-04-05-06-07-/361347496947?hash=item5421fd3bf3:g:0OYAAOSwjVVVsOA r

[Adam Ef]

I would recommend getting some mirror risers, they only stick the mirrors out by an extra inch or so, but the amount of extra rear vision is incredible

Curvy - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mirror-Extenders-Spacers-Suzuki-1999-2002-SV650S-SV650-SV-650-650S-2000-2001-/252279458301?hash=item3abd0709fd:m:mPxyJh6XqjXgsH3 8gl-woMw

Pointy - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-Mirrors-Extender-Spacer-Adaptor-Fit-Suzuki-SV1000-S-03-09-04-05-06-07-/361347496947?hash=item5421fd3bf3:g:0OYAAOSwjVVVsOA r


Brilliant. Cheers. These are definitely on the list of bits needed.

[PyroUK]

100% recommend the risers for the mirrors, you should hopefully find that the extra visibility afforded by these will ease the nerves as your situational awareness will be greater.

I had them on the SV and now the Daytona, as a slightly larger lad all I could see in my mirrors previously were my own shoulders!

This does not make for a relaxing ride, put the extenders on and it was like an epiphany.

Riding should never feel like a chore :)

[Trev B]

I got those extenders after I fitted the bars on mine and the bars give much more movement with the head,looking left and right vision was vastly improved,BUT to improve the mirrors even more I bought a pack of 4 of those round rubber door stops from the pound shop and 4 x75mm Allen studs and added these between the extenders and the mirrors,Total cost £2.90p.No more elbows and forearm !!!

[tom_e]

I've already got a set of extenders on mine, might pick up another set and some longer bolts and stack them as I still suffer from a decent view of my elbows/shoulders.

[Corny Gizmo]

The real problem was that the HGV was parked up on double yellows just round a blind corner on a fairly fast road, but wrong or right these situations will occur, so I want to be as best prepared and equiped as possible to deal with them.

Like the others have said, building a mental image is everything. In this situation with a mental image of traffic around you, you could be 80%-90% sure of what was in the right lane, use a quick glance to double check and move over. Without a built up mental image of the traffic around you, you have to do a full check and lifesaver etc before moving over.

Its a constantly evolving mental map and if done correctly... if you absolutley had to, you could change lanes without checking your blindspot, because you know what is there. (I would never do this purposefully but if someone stops suddenly etc you may have to.)

I guess what im trying to say is always have an escape plan.

[Corny Gizmo]

The real problem was that the HGV was parked up on double yellows just round a blind corner on a fairly fast road, but wrong or right these situations will occur, so I want to be as best prepared and equiped as possible to deal with them.

Like the others have said, building a mental image is everything. In this situation with a mental image of traffic around you, you could be 80%-90% sure of what was in the right lane, use a quick glance to double check and move over. Without a built up mental image of the traffic around you, you have to do a full check and lifesaver etc before moving over.

Its a constantly evolving mental map and if done correctly... if you absolutley had to, you could change lanes without checking your blindspot, because you know what is there. (I would never do this purposefully but if someone stops suddenly etc you may have to.)

I guess what im trying to say is always have an escape plan.

[atassiedevil]

If your helmet chin piece is low, it'll foul on your shoulder as well. Try tilting your head to the side slightly, as it might give you the extra degree or two of vision you need. As has been said before, you should already know whats around you and where it is. It's when one of those vehicles can no longer be seen that you know you've got to cover your blind spots.

[Jason H]

As a number of people have previously mentioned building that constant picture of what is around you is vital to maintaining proper spacial awareness. If you're checking your mirrors regularly enough then you ought not to have many surprises beyond the occasional other bike that has filtered up to say "hi".

Try tucking your elbow or dropping a shoulder slightly when checking your mirrors if they're getting in the way (first check you actually have your mirrors adjusted properly), and when doing a lifesaver try angling your head differently, up, down, tilted to the left, tilted to the right and remember you can look under your shoulder as well as over.

Sadly can't comment on the mirror risers as: 1. I have a naked and 2. I don't have any of those odd, shaky, vanity glass thingy m'bobs attached to my bars. :)

J

[Adam Ef]

If your helmet chin piece is low, it'll foul on your shoulder as well.

This is a big part of the problem.


Thanks for input everyone. Lots of good reminders here. I know about keeping aware and remembering what's around me, but knowing and keeping up good practice are two different things. I'm going to definitely be more concious of this next ride in and see if it helps.

Thanks again.

[Adam Ef]

Had a much better city ride today. Went in keeping all advice in my mind and managed to just ride really calmly not giving in to the bumper to bumper stress all around ( i kept a good gap in front to keep moving instead of riding stop start... drives me crazy that everyone in the city wants to be right up to your back wheel!). Made a concerted effort to keep a mental image going and it helped me feel much more confident.

Still need to get the mirror extensions to help things, but came back generally happier and even enjoyed the few moments when traffic managed to move faster than a snail's pace. : )

[Swin]

Nice one, glad to hear it!

The great thing about the mirror risers is that you can take them off the bike when you sell it and put them on the next one, so it's a 1 off purchase for all your biking needs :)

Should add, if you don't want to go the door stop economy route, it'll be about 30 quid for a pair of them, and the longer bolts you need, so you can pays yer money and makes yer choice :)