A2 License Loophole - Enduro/Dirtbikes

[AlexRider]

So being on an A2 license you are severely restricted to what bikes you can legally ride; even more so when the category of those bikes are enduros/off road. I know because I currently have this license and have been doing some number crunching; I thought I'd share my findings. :)

The rules for the A2 license, taken directly from the UK Gov website are as follows:

https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-moped/bike-categories-ages-and-licence-requirements

A2 Standard Motorcycle Requirements


Maximum power output of up to 35 kW (46.9bhp)
A power-to-weight ratio not more than 0.2 kW per kg
A restricted bike mustn’t be derived from vehicle more than twice its power (E.G a 35KW/46.9BHP bike can't have an original power output of more than 70KW/93.8BHP. This makes most sports bikes unavailable)



2009 KTM 530 EXC Example
The reason for not being able to ride the better spec enduro/offroad bikes is due to the weight restriction. Take for example, a 2009 KTM 530 EXC; here are the basic specs of it:

Weight: 113KG without fuel
Power: Aprox 50BHP/High 40's when stock, slightly higher with more mods


Now, assuming that the bike is right on the limit (47bhp = 35KW), due to the weight restriction of 0.2kw/kg(1kw/5kg), the bike would have to weigh at least 175KG(1kw/5kg - 5kg*35KW = 175kg) IF you are using the full power output that this license allows.

HOWEVER, it doesn't say anything on the website about not being able to restrict the bike further down.

Do you see where I'm going with this? No? Keep following.



Does it meet the Power/Weight/Restriction Requirements?
In order for this bike to meet the power/weight restriction, we take the bikes original weight figure (113KG) and multiply it by 0.2KW, which gives us a figure of 22.6KW (30.3 BHP). Providing that the bike doesn't produce more than 22.6KW/30.3BHP, then it meets the weight requirement.

So we can check a few things off of our list:


Is the bike restricted to 35KW/47BHP or less? Yes(22.6KW/30.3BHP) ☑
Is the original power output less than double the restricted power? Yes - Original Power (35kw/47bhp), restricted power (22.6kw/30.3bhp) ☑
Does the bike meet the 0.2kw/kg weight restriction? Yes, providing that the bike is restricted to 22.6KW/30.3BHP and assuming it has a weight of 113KG or heavier ☑


FINALLY - the only thing I could find about the minimum required power output for the A2 motorcycle was in the test section of the website. It states that on the TEST, the bike must have a power output of between 20KW-35KW. This only applies to the test and not for road use; there is nothing else on the website that shows a limitation of how low you can restrict a bike, as long as it meets the power/weight requirements. https://www.gov.uk/motorcycle-practical-test/rules-for-mopeds-and-motorcycles-used-in-the-practical-riding-test

I just want to mention, that restricting this bike to that level of power will make it run like a turd on wheels and is probably not worth it. Not to mention that you'd have to figure out how to restrict it that low (washers in the carb, throttle stop, ecu map on some bikes etc.). But just thought I'd point out that it is possible to ride one, or any other light weight off road/enduro vehicle on the A2 license


Anybody agree/disagree with this? Let me know:smt016

[DarrenSV650S]

What are you gaining? You say you can't get most sport bikes, so you want to get something with less bhp?

[AlexRider]

What are you gaining? You say you can't get most sport bikes, so you want to get something with less bhp?

Basically, they enforce these weight restrictions to rule out all of these very light bikes; because although an off road bike might make 50bhp, the power delivery can be overwhelming due to the weight; especially to a new rider.

My point is, most people say you can't have these bikes on this license due to the weight. My post is just pointing out the fact that you can, providing it's restricted enough to allow for the power/weight ratio; and there's nothing to say that it can't be restricted down to a certain amount providing you follow the requirements already listed.

Perhaps somebody can confirm these working outs/findings, or provide an argument as to why my theory might not work?

[DarrenSV650S]

I don't think that's a loophole then. If you restrict it to 30bhp you are doing what they want.

Oh and 30bhp in that lightweight ktm will be more than adequate. My SV was restricted to 33bhp and was pretty decent

[AlexRider]

I don't think that's a loophole then. If you restrict it to 30bhp you are doing what they want.

Oh and 30bhp in that lightweight ktm will be more than adequate. My SV was restricted to 33bhp and was pretty decent

Mm perhaps not. I was always under the impression that enduro/off road bikes were out of the equation due to the restrictions on the A2 license; it's what seems to get passed around a lot. I guess I got a bit excited after doing some number crunching and realised that you can in fact ride them on the A2 license and thought I'd post, just in case anybody else was wondering :)

But you are correct, even 30bhp in a light frame would be plenty. I still can't see it running too good though. I had my SV restricted with an ECU unit to 33bhp; it ran okay but definitely felt like it was being choked :|

[AlexAdams]

To be honest as long as you're under 47bhp I don't think you're going to get checked on power to weight. I've heard of dyno's at the side of the road but not scales? Given that so many people ignore the bhp rule, I really wouldn't worry about getting caught out on power to weight. A bit of common sense should be applied and attracting attention with aggressive riding, lack of safety gear, loud exhausts and small number plates does not go well with breaking the power rules.

[ophic]

Is it not factory specs that count?

If you're allowed to change the bhp, why not just change the weight instead? Add a few bricks, off you go.

[Red Herring]

It's not the police you need to be worried about, it's your insurance company. Both the power and weight of the bike are readily available to them so they will know if you are eligible to ride them according to your declared licence. If you want to modify the bike so that it meets your licence requirements then you need to declare this, and if you subsequently change it back "because you can" then be aware of the implications should you be involved in any kind of incident. If the bike is found to weigh less or make more power than it should they will simply void the cover and leave you to pick up the pieces, which given it is only likely to happen in a relatively serious incident may not be particularly clever.....

This isn't a new debate, I went through it with my son over his DRZ400. When he was on his 33bhp two year period that had to be restricted to something like 26bhp so he could ride it and Suzuki produce a carb top to do it.

[AlexRider]

To be honest as long as you're under 47bhp I don't think you're going to get checked on power to weight. I've heard of dyno's at the side of the road but not scales? Given that so many people ignore the bhp rule, I really wouldn't worry about getting caught out on power to weight. A bit of common sense should be applied and attracting attention with aggressive riding, lack of safety gear, loud exhausts and small number plates does not go well with breaking the power rules.

I spoke to a friend of mine who is an ex copper and he reckons that most police, or at least the ones in my area; aren't clued up about all of these restrictions. Tbh, I haven't really seen a bike being dyno'd at the side of the road, but have heard they can take it in for a dyno test if they have reasonable grounds/suspicions to do so.

However, you're talking about if you were to unrestrict the bike; my post was to illustrate the fact that you can legally ride these bikes on the A2 license, as long as they're restricted enough to meet the power/weight ratio;)

Is it not factory specs that count?

If you're allowed to change the bhp, why not just change the weight instead? Add a few bricks, off you go.

The laws are too fluid and can easily be misinterpreted. The only thing mentioned about factory specs is the bikes original power can't be more than double the restricted power and can't exceed 70KW/94BHP. Doesn't mention anything about whether the power/weight ratio is calculated before or after the restriction. Which is why I thought this might be a little loophole/flaw in the laws?

It's not the police you need to be worried about, it's your insurance company. Both the power and weight of the bike are readily available to them so they will know if you are eligible to ride them according to your declared licence. If you want to modify the bike so that it meets your licence requirements then you need to declare this, and if you subsequently change it back "because you can" then be aware of the implications should you be involved in any kind of incident. If the bike is found to weigh less or make more power than it should they will simply void the cover and leave you to pick up the pieces, which given it is only likely to happen in a relatively serious incident may not be particularly clever.....

This isn't a new debate, I went through it with my son over his DRZ400. When he was on his 33bhp two year period that had to be restricted to something like 26bhp so he could ride it and Suzuki produce a carb top to do it.

Again, you're specifically talking about if you plan on unrestricting the bike; which in that case, you are totally correct about voiding the insurance etc. But my post was to elaborate on the fact that you can legally ride the bike if you reduce the power enough to meet the weight restrictions.

Most forums/chats on this topic tend to make their calculations to the maximum BHP limit for restriction (47BHP) and regard enduro/off road bikes as not being able to meet the requirements. However, most people don't take into consideration that you could lower the power even further to meet the power/weight restriction. I think my post was to clarify that it is in fact possible to legally ride these lightweight enduro/offroad bikes on the A2 license with the correct calculations:)

[Red Herring]

The title of the thread doesn't tend to suggest that, it gives the impression this is a way around the regulations ("loophole"). Restricting a bike to meet regulations is nothing new as several have pointed out, including Endure/Dirtbikes as I explained with the DRZ.

[AlexRider]

The title of the thread doesn't tend to suggest that, it gives the impression this is a way around the regulations ("loophole"). Restricting a bike to meet regulations is nothing new as several have pointed out, including Endure/Dirtbikes as I explained with the DRZ.

Maybe loophole wasn't the correct word; although I do believe that the power/weight restriction was imposed to specifically prevent these types of bikes being ridden on this license; because let's face it, 47bhp in a 113kg bike is a handful. But as far as I'm aware, I can't change the title to better reflect the thread at this point?

No offence, but the DRZ is quite heavy and under powered in comparison (145kg wet + aprox 38bhp for the e model, which makes the most power from stock). On the current A2 laws, I don't think it would even need to be restricted to meet the power/weight restrictions if based on those figures. I wouldn't class it as a true off road/enduro bike like the KTM EXC series though; which are the bikes I'm specifically targeting.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass and I wasn't suggesting to unrestrict these bikes at all; I just thought I'd share my findings because I've found multiple sources that claim these bikes can't be ridden on the A2 license; and the places that do list bikes for the A2 license never have off-road/enduro bikes listed on them.

[Red Herring]

No offence, but the DRZ is quite heavy and under powered in comparison (145kg wet + aprox 38bhp for the e model, which makes the most power from stock). On the current A2 laws, I don't think it would even need to be restricted to meet the power/weight restrictions if based on those figures. I wouldn't class it as a true off road/enduro bike like the KTM EXC series though; which are the bikes I'm specifically targeting.

...........and the places that do list bikes for the A2 license never have off-road/enduro bikes listed on them.


Which is exactly why the DRZ is allowed under the rules and the EXC isn't, you either need less power or more weight....! If you really want to ride the EXC due to it's weight and chassis performance then as you pointed out you need to strangle the engine to such an extent that you effectively ruin the bike, you would be far better off spending half the money and buying a lower spec and less exotic enduro bike in the first place, which is why I suspect your last sentence is true.

By coincidence I spent Thursday playing on various off road bikes including the latest CRF250 full on Enduro bike (which was pretty amazing given the cc). I've got a reasonable amount of off road experience so got on OK with it but the other four people in my group were less experienced and found something like the CRF230 (old tech air cooled, rear drum brake) so much easier to ride, and in their hands faster than the 250. They may be more representative of those holding A2 licences.

My point being that unless you happen to be an expert Enduro rider who happens to want to ride their competition bike on the road you simply are not going to be doing what you suggest.

[AlexRider]

Which is exactly why the DRZ is allowed under the rules and the EXC isn't, you either need less power or more weight....! If you really want to ride the EXC due to it's weight and chassis performance then as you pointed out you need to strangle the engine to such an extent that you effectively ruin the bike, you would be far better off spending half the money and buying a lower spec and less exotic enduro bike in the first place, which is why I suspect your last sentence is true.

By coincidence I spent Thursday playing on various off road bikes including the latest CRF250 full on Enduro bike (which was pretty amazing given the cc). I've got a reasonable amount of off road experience so got on OK with it but the other four people in my group were less experienced and found something like the CRF230 (old tech air cooled, rear drum brake) so much easier to ride, and in their hands faster than the 250. They may be more representative of those holding A2 licences.

My point being that unless you happen to be an expert Enduro rider who happens to want to ride their competition bike on the road you simply are not going to be doing what you suggest.

I was about to write a massive paragraph in response, but I think you made me realise that it may not be the best idea lol. My initial post was simply to disprove that you can't legally ride these bikes on the A2 license; because I see many sources saying you can't.

I think in some circumstances it could be viable; but like you said, in most situations it wouldn't be. I was simply pointing out that it can be done legally :-)