Trouble removing the exhaust

[theenglishman]

Pointy one, if that makes a difference.

I need to get the exhaust off. The only way I can see to do it is to separate the front header from the main part. But it's stuck fast. Anyone any ideas?

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1485/26150807823_9143d23890_m.jpg

I've got plusgas on it overnight but I doubt that'll make any difference.

[DJ123]

You can pull the front section out when you have the header removed. Slowly/gently twist the header pipe side to side whilst pulling it towards the front of the bike. If you can, have some one with a plastic mallet/rag hammer hitting the joint to help release it.

[andrewsmith]

As DJ said.
It is possible to do it in one if you undo all the connections on the system and give it a welly with mallet.

Iirc knock the front at the second bend from the header it should come out

Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk

[DomP]

Heat the joint up with a blow torch helps too.

[theenglishman]

Right - Bacon and sausage sandwich with a mug of tea - Done! My loins are properly girded.

Wish me luck!

[theenglishman]

Ok - it's off. But the previous owner had bodged in a helicoiled stud with metal epoxy and it snapped off. Well, came off in my hands actually, like the suspicious hand tight bolt when I undid it.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8810/26166827093_439921d9d2_n.jpg

How big a job is it to take the front head off? I'm guessing front off, radiator off and then is the head easy to remove or is it an engine out job?

[DomP]

Oh that's irritating, are you going to put a new head on it then?

[theenglishman]

I don't know.

Taking the head off would be a really big job for me - totally out of my comfort zone.

A replacement could be £20 on e-bay and a gasket and some sundries. And a lot of my time. Most of which I'd not be comfortable with.

I *could* bodge it. It was bodged before....

I *could* take the head off, get it done properly and know the job's been done properly. I'd still be way out of my comfort zone re-assembling everything.

The bike's in for a service at the end of the month. If they're doing the valve shims they'll possibly have most of it in bits anyway, so part of the labour to get the head off *may* be included. Then the job would be done properly and re-assembled by people who know what they're doing. But megabucks.

Right now I'm having a cup of tea and a tea cake. And a think. And a peruse of the manual.

I'll call the garage tomorrow and after they've stopped sniggering and planning for a second summer holiday I'll get an estimate.


Am I allowed to say ********?

[theenglishman]

It seems I'm not allowed to say ********...

[DomP]

Could that piece be jb welded on? What's the worst that could happen.

[mikerj]

That could be fairly easily TIG welded in situ, and then drilled out and tapped.

[Fen Tiger]

What a *** ! I think you can say as many **********s as you like after something like that happens!

Just remember things can happen to the most experienced mechanics and it is recovery from these situations that adds to your knowledge.

I am thinking that if a repair is possible it would be much easier to achieve if the head was on the bench so I would approach an engineering workshop with the pic and see if they would take on the job. I would then take the head off and give it to them for a repair. Hope you get it sorted.

[ophic]

I am thinking that if a repair is possible it would be much easier to achieve if the head was on the bench so I would approach an engineering workshop with the pic and see if they would take on the job. I would then take the head off and give it to them for a repair. Hope you get it sorted.
If a replacement head is £20 this isn't really worthwhile, as all the work and expense is in taking it off and putting it back.

So the options are fix in situ or replace head.

I'd definitely try to fix in situ but on the other hand replacing it might be out of comfort zone, but you'll learn a lot :)

[theenglishman]

If a replacement head is £20 this isn't really worthwhile, as all the work and expense is in taking it off and putting it back.

So the options are fix in situ or replace head.

I'd definitely try to fix in situ but on the other hand replacing it might be out of comfort zone, but you'll learn a lot :)

A replacement head is around £100. And the usual way of learning is by rectifying your mistakes. Head off job has a large scope for mistake.

I'm not saying couldn't, shouldn't or wouldn't. I'm
Just laying it all out there.

[Adam Ef]

>>> Resurrecting a thread that is a couple of years old instead of starting a new one and cluttering the archives. Hope that's ok.

///


Doing the "quick" job of removing the exhaust on my K8 pointy so that I can drop the swingarm out and check bearings before replacing rear shock as suggested by several people on here.
I'm in the classic situation of having one bolt sheared off at the header.
I'm currently on day 2 of lying under the bike swearing on a cold garage floor with neck ache.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4903/45026257664_3c60f8c74f_z.jpg


I have the offer of welding a nut to it from my metal fabricator neighbors at my workshop. Only problem is the bike is at home (4 mile from workshop), with lots of parts removed, inc exhaust (nearly), rear wheel / brake etc, front sprocket (to remove chain and then wheel), clutch actuator (to remove front sprocket) and all bolts cracked loose on suspension etc in preparation for the "simple" job of removing the swingarm.


It's been suggested I try the welding nut on technique while there's still a small amount of thread to work with rather than going straight for drilling and bolt extractors etc that might fail and make a mess.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4859/45751285591_2cf690495d_z.jpg





If I can get the last parts free and then reassemble into a rideable state I might do that. Otherwise I have no way of moving it. My van is too small.


Couple of Qs. In the photos above I'm guessing the copper coloured ring is the gasket and it needs removing? It's not a small copper ring, but quite deep (about 4mm), more like the aluminium ones but is copper coloured. Slightly confusing. Either way, it is welded in there and not coming out. Just checking it is a gasket before I start chiseling away at it / dremeling it?


Also have one of the bolts holding the collector are of the exhaust that has started to come undone and is now suddenly spinning freely without undoing any more. I'm guessing it bolts in to a captive nut in the bracket that has come loose and is spinning no longer allowing the bolt to undo? See pic below. Any advice on this other than what I'm thinking ... I need to cut the bolt now? Bit worried this will leave a nut with part of bolt stuck inside the exhaust bracket next to the collector box, making impossible to reattach?


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1901/43933567750_f6aa55ab87_z.jpg

Lastly... the soft plastic / rubber section inside the exhaust pipe where the header downpipe slots in... is this a shim or just the shape left by some sealant? Should I be cutting it out and using new sealant? Or keep it to slide back into when reassembling? The end of it is deteriorating. See pic below.


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1947/45700865312_67c7245a98_z.jpg

[Bibio]

from what i remember the bolts are stainless steel so you would need to use TIG to weld a nut on. personally i would just bite the bullet and drill it out going up in stages till only a little meat if left then wind it out hopefully leaving the thread intact. dont use cheep bits buy proper SS bits and SS cutting paste or you will blunt the bits. there is a cheat... once you get a decent hole in the bolt thread you can whack a star bit into the hole and use a windy gun to do the rest.

as for the copper bit then yes it is a gasket which means the original ones have been replaced at some point as the original ones are aluminium sandwich.

if the bolt is just turning in the captive nut then just punch it out from the back instead of trying to cut it out.

the gasket in the mid pipes are collars and if damaged then need to be replaced.. kerching.....

[Adam Ef]

Cheers Bibio.
They can do MIG, TIG, brazing, work with Ti and all sorts so should be fine to get something fixed on... if I can get it there. If it fails I can still try drilling etc. They seem quite confident that they've done it a lot and offered to help. My decision is now is it more hassle to tray and reassemble to get it there or more hassle to try drilling it myself.



There's no access from the back on that bolt? It screws into a small box on the bracket that I assume the captive nut is held inside?


The collar pictured is all good apart from the degradation on that end couple of millimetres. Guessing its still ok to use? Do you use any sealant reassembling exhausts at the joins, or at the header or just allow the gasket to do it's job there?

[Adam Ef]

Regarding the broken stud: have you considered left hand drill bits? The act of drilling with such a bit will (sometimes) unscrew the stud.

Regarding the non captive collector nut: can't you jam a screwdriver in there to stop it rotating?


I have some bolt extractors that are left hand threading, but need pilots drilling first and even then they are notorious for breaking off themselves, leaving a very hard to drill out section stuck in the bolt, making the job harder.


I have some small metal plate offcuts I'm going to try and slip into the very small gap under the captive nut to jam it in place and try and undo the bolt.

[Bibio]

if there is no access then its a case of junior hacksaw/dremel time. i personally would use a junior. cut between the rubber and the exhaust bracket. it'll only take 5min. dont cut the head off the bolt as it will leave you with a long stud. or as seeker said jam a blade screwdriver in there.

with the gaskets collars being that old i would use a very light smear of assembly paste putting it back together.

as you have said.. dont use an easy out on the broken bolt. if you can get a nut welded on there then thats the best action to take. there are mobile companies that specialise in stud extraction but it costs a fair old whack but might be better than messing about.

[Adam Ef]

Bingo. My small metal plates were too big to fit in the box around the captive nut. There's a small loop of metal under it that stops you getting anything in there! Did just about manage to jam my smallest flat bladed electrical screwrider tip in there enough to jam it up and got the bolt out! Exhaust is now all off!


Going to do all the bits I set out to do (need to feel I'm making some progress with the actual job I set out to do!) and get it back together and deal with the sheared bolt last. Hopefully it'll be in a rideable state by then to ride it to the workshop to deal with that.


Looking at the other gasket collars they are similar. I didn't realise there is a mm or two gap at the end anyway on all of them, so the end isn't in as bad condition as I thought and the main section of it is very smooth inside. Will use some sort of assembly paste too. Any particular recommendations? Unless... I've got most of a tube of Loctite MR 5922 (https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/product/gasketing-sealants--flange-sealants/loctite_mr_5922.html) flange sealant left over from a previous job. It's good to +200ºc and drys flexible. Would that be suitable?

[Adam Ef]

Next puzzle... swing arm lock nut on the right and the regular nut on the left are off. Does the swingrm pivot need unscrewing out or just get pushed out? The right end seems to have space for a 20mm allen key? Do I need to get yet another tool or anyone got any tips of how to cheat and not buy a 20mm allen key?

[Adam Ef]

if you have a selection of bolts, find one with the correct size head, lock two nuts onto it and use that.


I'd seen people welding nuts onto bolts but locking two together is much simpler. Thanks for the tip.

[Adam Ef]

Cheers. I've just bought 3 other large sizes for my workshop for bicycle cassette jobs though, so trying to not spend more on tools at the moment. It's all adding up, with the castellated locknut tool, Abba swingarm removal adaptors, new socket for sprocket etc.
Doing the usual quick cheap easy job and it's getting complicated and expensive!


I've worked out that my spark plug socket reversed and used on an extension (with the rubber sleeve removed from the inside) has flats on the outside that fit perfectly. So, swingarm pivot is now out!

[andrewsmith]

Next puzzle... swing arm lock nut on the right and the regular nut on the left are off. Does the swingrm pivot need unscrewing out or just get pushed out? The right end seems to have space for a 20mm allen key? Do I need to get yet another tool or anyone got any tips of how to cheat and not buy a 20mm allen key?EBay and search swing are removal tool it's about 15 quid and easier than mucking on

Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Adam Ef]

EBay and search swing are removal tool it's about 15 quid and easier than mucking on

Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Tapatalk


Cheers. I already have that tool and the castellated nut was the first thing off a few days ago. I was referring something to unscrew the pivot (swingarm axle) with as Pointys seem to need a 20mm allen key to slot in and unscrew, whereas my Haynes manual was saying it's an external socket surface to turn against, but I'm guessing that is for Curvys.


All done now anyway. Cheers.

[Bibio]

if you think the tool is expensive wait to see if you need new bearings.... kerchingggggggg.

you will also need the allan socket to put it back together again.

[andrewsmith]

Cheers. I already have that tool and the castellated nut was the first thing off a few days ago. I was referring something to unscrew the pivot (swingarm axle) with as Pointys seem to need a 20mm allen key to slot in and unscrew, whereas my Haynes manual was saying it's an external socket surface to turn against, but I'm guessing that is for Curvys.


All done now anyway. Cheers.Sorry yes it's the Allen socket.
Tbh they're not too expensive even for brand itemsif you think the tool is expensive wait to see if you need new bearings.... kerchingggggggg.

you will also need the allan socket to put it back together again. Thankfully never had that displeasure on the white bike

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[Adam Ef]

if you think the tool is expensive wait to see if you need new bearings.... kerchingggggggg.

you will also need the allan socket to put it back together again.


Having worked as a bicycle mechanic for 10 years the price of tools and parts never really surprises me any more. I regularly fit bicycle headset cartridge bearings that cost £40 each, per cartridge! And they aren't the most expensive option. Using tools that cost £300+ for specific jobs that you need 3 variations of. Just last week had a customer opt for £90 bottom bracket cups instead of the £16 ones as he wanted shiny red to match his bike.

[Adam Ef]

Pleased to report that main swingarm bearings feel great. Even got some grease left in them. Lower bearings ok too. Shock linkage is a bit stiff but turning fine, so should be good with a clean out.


At this stage I have to decide if I want to get a relacement shock in there while it's all apart! Can no way afford it right now but seems crazy to put it all back together to be having the same wooden riding feeling. The reason I'm taking it all apart is to rule out the bearings being the problem in case they're stopping the swingarm moving, before sinking money into a shock. The bearings definitely aren't a problem. Giving it all a clean down and refresh while it's apart anyway.

[Craig380]

That's good news about the swingarm bearings. I'd be interested in whether you find the suspension linkage bearings still have any grease in them too.

[Adam Ef]

T...I'd be interested in whether you find the suspension linkage bearings still have any grease in them too.


They seem to have much less than the main swingarm bearings. What there is left is fairly dried out and sticky too. Causing it to be really stiff pivoting. From the difference between them I'd say that the suspension linkage needs servicing much more often than the swingarm. A much easier job to do thankfully too!



I'm managing to clean a lot of dried up grease residue off the linkage bolts and bushings and it's feeling much smoother already. I think I got to the bearings just before the grease stopped protecting them as they seem really good. With new grease packed in and eveything cleaned up I'm hoping things feel a bit smoother!


I'd definitely recommend servicing the linkage at regular intervals now I've seen it.



See below pic for sticky dried up grease bolt compared to cleaned one...


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1945/45720862922_967624433c_z.jpg

[Ruffy]

I'm feeling a little guilty because I think it was my post on your earlier thread that sent you down this route. I hadn't intended a full swingarm removal, just the linkage strip and clean that, as you have found, is not complicated on its own but is usually very necessary. Sorry for any extra aggro you may have suffered by removing the swingarm but you will now have some valuable peace of mind.

At this stage I have to decide if I want to get a relacement shock in there while it's all apart! Can no way afford it right now but seems crazy to put it all back together to be having the same wooden riding feeling.
I would put it all back together and ride it first to see if the problems are still as severe. It's not difficult to undo the linkages again to change a shock - no need to touch swingarm pivot for that. Since you've found some stiffness in the linkages, you may find the outcome is better than expected and the shock replacement can wait. Important if you genuinely can't afford it: Hobbies will always take at least as much money as you throw at them - beware!!!

They seem to have much less than the main swingarm bearings. What there is left is fairly dried out and sticky too. Causing it to be really stiff pivoting. From the difference between them I'd say that the suspension linkage needs servicing much more often than the swingarm. A much easier job to do thankfully too!

I'm managing to clean a lot of dried up grease residue off the linkage bolts and bushings and it's feeling much smoother already. I think I got to the bearings just before the grease stopped protecting them as they seem really good. With new grease packed in and eveything cleaned up I'm hoping things feel a bit smoother!

I'd definitely recommend servicing the linkage at regular intervals now I've seen it.

See below pic for sticky dried up grease bolt compared to cleaned one...


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1945/45720862922_967624433c_z.jpg
The outer surface of the metal bush you have laid out in the photo looks good - clean and no corrosion except at the edges where it's exposed. It's that bush outer that matters more than the bolts - it rides on the needle rollers that are inside the linkage. Clean all three bushes/bearings thoroughly and re-pack with fresh bearing grease and you should feel an improvement - smooth and without jerkiness.


Good work and top result by the way.:smt023

[Adam Ef]

I'm feeling a little guilty because I think it was my post on your earlier thread that sent you down this route. I hadn't intended a full swingarm removal, just the linkage strip and clean that..




Don't worry! I'm glad I've done it. If I'd left it another year (or more) it might have been a real pain of a job. At least in the current condition it's all coming apart nicely. I'd rather do preventative work on all the bearings and keep them in good condition than be trying to bash out bits of worn out bearings in a year or two. Learning a lot too.


It all needs a clean anyway, including the outside of the swingarm under the sprocket that has a few years of accumulated chain gunge growing on it.

[Craig380]

Thanks for the pic! They still look decent despite having knocked about under a bike for a decade :)