What engine oil do forum members use and why?

[Blapper]

Hopefully this question doesn't cause a riot like it does on some forums...;)

So, what oils do you all use in your SV650's and why? Also, if it is different, what do you consider the BEST oil for the motor and why? I do have a reason for asking which I will share with you after y'all tell me what you use.

[Red ones]

Halfords motorcycle oil.
Changed every 4,500 miles with a new Hi Flo HF138 filter every third oil change.

[Blapper]

Which Halfords engine oil exactly?

[Biker Biggles]

There is a sticky at the top of the Tuning and Tweaking section about oil that sums it up well.

[tom_e]

Motul 7100, change the filter and run some Motul oil flush through it every 2nd change.

[Luckypants]

So, what oils do you all use in your SV650's and why? Also, if it is different, what do you consider the BEST oil for the motor and why? I do have a reason for asking which I will share with you after y'all tell me what you use.

There is a sticky at the top of the Tuning and Tweaking section about oil that sums it up well.

See this... http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=125457 :rolleyes:

[Red ones]

Which Halfords engine oil exactly?



10W/40 4stroke part synthetic

2300ml is going in at this very moment.

[Craig380]

Oil change - Castrol Edge semi-synth, because Halfords was doing it cheap. Still using the Suzi filter that the supplying dealer put on when they serviced it pre-sale.

In terms of what's the 'best' oil to use, here's an article from one of the USA's leading oil analysis companies, based on its findings from analysing tens of thousands of samples of oil from all sorts of cars and bikes: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsletters/Gas-Diesel/July-1-2014.php

The basic conclusion is: use whatever brand or type (mineral, semi-synth, synth) of oil you prefer. As long as there's enough of it in the engine (i.e. it's at the right level) and is changed within spitting distance of the manufacturer's recommendations, it will protect your engine as it should.

[Blapper]

Thanks guys. Either the search function of this forum sucks or I do at using search functions. I couldn't believe there wasn't an oil thread somewhere, thanks for pointing me to it.

I just read the thread you linked to Luckypants, but it doesn't have enough detail in it to answer the questions that are flying around in my head.

Cheers Craig380, that is interesting info.

[Blapper]

OK, my thoughts are that this subject should get more detailed attention than it perhaps does. The reason I started this thread is because I bought my bike recently after the previous owner had fully serviced it with no expense spared. I asked him what oil he had put in it and he told me Motul 300V 10W40 - certainly a very expensive motor oil - but during the 700 miles I have done on it since, I noticed that the clutch has a vagueness about it that is strange. The clutch starts to drag as I begin to let the lever out, but the final bite is then fairly sudden. If I pull it back in to the point where it had started to bite, it is dragging more than it did when the lever was on the way out. This made me think that the oil may be not be the best choice for my bike so I did some research.

The Suzuki manual clearly states the oil should be 10W40 API SF or SG. I phoned Motul after I could find not API rating on their site and the guy didn't go into great detail but just kept saying that their oil exceeds all current specifications which is not too helpful if the specifications aren't relevant to your era of engine.

Some of our SV's have catalytic converters, some don't. This is important because API SF and SG oils have a high zinc content which gives the best protection to motors which have very high pressure loads to cope with, but zinc damages cats so the oil companies had to cut back on using it. After API SH, the additive packages had a different agenda, they were formulated to for engines that had catalytic converters so had a lot less of that lovely zinc in their chemistry. I believe that we would get better protection for our motors if we use the correct technology oil rather than the latest technology oil. In short, Suzuki Performance 4, Valvoline 4 stroke motorcycle oil, or any oil which has API SF or SG rating, meets JASO MA2 and is preferably 10W40 or if not 20W50 viscosity. The JASO MA2 is what I am hoping will get my clutch back to a normal feel. Motul saying that 300V exceeds JASO MA2 makes me think that there is some 'marketing speak' going on because MA2 as I understand it is specially formulated to be better for wet clutches over MA1 and that is not something I can see having been 'exceeded' as my clutch feels weird.

What do you guys think?

[Bibio]

the SV oil service interval is 3500 miles. oil & filter = 2.7ltr, just oil = 2.3ltr

as long as the oil is motorcycle specific then it dont matter what you use. cheeper oils = more frequent changes so knock down to 3000 miles for halfords and other cheep brands. i used to use millers oils but changed to halfords and the halfords makes the bike feel a bit rougher to me so i think i'll be moving back to millers. i also use an engine flush every 3rd oil change to remove gumming/glazing. if your piston rings start sticking or get a build up of 'gum' it can cause rapid wear or the bores, this is very important with the newer sv engine such as the gladdy and the new sv as they have a coated bore, if the coating on these bores goes its new cylinder time as they cant be bored out.

[Luckypants]

I'd make sure that the clutch is correctly adjusted, worm gear correctly lubed and adjusted, cables are smooth and levers 100% before anything else. What model / year bike do you have?

[Blapper]

it's a 2001 SV650S with 9000 miles on it.

[Red ones]

15 year old bike with 9,000 on the clock???


If you follow the owners manual your changing the oil each 600 miles!!!!!

If your servicing costs per mile are more than you're petrol costs then there's a problem somewhere!!!!!

[Blapper]

Hah! Yes, biizarre isn't it. I've only had it two weeks and I've already put 600 miles on it. It was a rare find being in such good condition and so few miles on it.

[Craig380]

I got my K6 last year from a Suzi dealer, 9 years old with 7,500 miles on the clock. The one previous owner had added a genuine Suzuki hugger (colour matched), crash bungs etc ... and then hardly ever rode it.

The bike was dealer serviced every year at MOT time, even though some years it had only done 300 miles between MOT tests.

I mean, I am strictly a fair-weather rider only but I still managed to put 5,000 miles on the clock in 12 months ...

[garynortheast]

16 year old curvy bought 6 years ago with 19500 on the clock, now with 72000 miles. Oil and filter every 5000 miles. Been using Motul 5000 10/40 for the last half a dozen oil changes. Engine uses very little oil between changes, still runs quietly.

[embee]

As to your first question, Castrol Power1. In the SV I use 10W-40 (I have other bikes which use 10W-30).


Why? For the reasons discussed I choose to use a bike specific oil, with the zinc/phosphorus levels suitable for transmission use (typically double the phosphorus of a modern car oil), and it is JASO-MA2.


I have always found it gives good clutch freeing and it stays very clean in my bikes for my use. I've had no issues with any wear problems and negligible oil used.


Other oils are available...................

[Blapper]

Thanks @embee, I'll add that one to the list to check out.

[Bibio]

if the manufacturer recommends say 10w40 it also recommends other grades for ambient temperature of your locale so the grade is not a strict rule. the closer a grade is like say 10w20 it will stay in grade longer due to having less modifiers in it. 10w40 is 10w at low temperature for cold cranking protection and the 40w is high temperature protection.

[Blapper]

Sure Bibio, but for the UK, Suzuki recommends 10W40. As I see it, the often neglected but very important spec is API SF or SG and JASO-MA2.

[Bibio]

i'll expand on this a little with types.

synthetic oil is a misleading term, one would presume that its oil made by man in a lab when in fact most synthetic oils now produced are from vegetable oil base that has be homogenized to form a specific molecule size but beware you can also get synthetic dino oil that has been altered by a lab process which technically makes it a synthetic.

synthetic oil is technically a monograde oil that by nature acts like a multigrade so no or very little modifiers are needed to keep it in grade throughout its life which in turn makes it last longer. the molecule size is uniform like a bag of the same size ball bearings.

dino oil is made from crude oil and is part of the refinery by product along with such this as tar, petrol, diesel etc.etc this oil is then further refined to produce a base stock suitable for automotive use. dino oil by nature is also a monograde but it does not have a uniform molecule size and is like a bag of different size ball bearings unless it had been modified in a lab which can then be classed as synthetic. unlike synthetic oil dino oil has to have additives added to turn it into a multigrade oil. its these additives that get used up as the oil gets older so reducing the effectiveness of the oil and eventually the dino oil turns back into a monograde.

as you might have guessed semi-synthetic is a mix of both dino and synthetic.

no matter which oil is used they all have varying forms of additives added by the oil blender such as comma, esso, millers etc.etc. these additives are amongst other things friction reducers, detergents, clumping agents etc.etc. as oil gets used in your engine these additives get used up so the oil might be fine but its then useless without these additives and this is why you must change your oil more regular on a motorcycle than say a car as motorcycle oil has less additives due to having a wet clutch. motorcycles also share the oil with the gearbox which in turn destroys the oil and additives a lot quicker. your oil filter is there to catch the debris created by the clumping agents of such things as soot so when these agents are used up the filter then passes the harmful deposits into the engine.

[Craig380]

For what it's worth, I found this eBay shop which sells a range of brand-name oils pretty cheaply, free postage too.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151018175119?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

For example, Elf Moto 4 semi-synth, 10W40, API SH/SJ and JASO MA2, 3x 1 litre bottles for £18.99 delivered. They also do Castrol, Mobil and Shell bike oils quite cheap.

[Craig380]

Been quiet at work this week, so I've been doing some digging around the specifications of various semi-synth oils to find out more about them, and show some of the differences.

First, Halfords' own brand bike oil is made by Comma: if you download the 'material safety' sheet from the Halfords website for the bike oils, it states the information is supplied by Comma, so that's a pretty big clue :)

Second, looking at viscosities, even though an oil may have the 10W40 viscosity rating, that rating covers a range of actual measured viscosities during testing. Generally speaking, the higher the viscosity of an oil, the stronger and thicker the oil film will be, but the oil will not flow quite as quickly.

At the high end of the viscosity rating (i.e. the '40' bit of 10W40), if the oil's measured viscosity is between 12.5 and 16.5 centiStokes, which is the unit for measuring viscosity, it counts as a 40-weight oil according to the SAE. Above that range, it's a 50-weight oil, and below it, it's a 30-weight. So one 10W40 oil could be quite a bit more viscous than another 10W40 oil.

So I looked at the manufacturer's own specs from their data sheets for different 10W40 semi-synthetic oils. This is what I found: the figures are the kinematic viscosity of the oil at 100 Celsius (i.e. close to the normal working oil temp when the engine is fully warmed up). Note that all the oils are rated as API SG/SH and some are SJ/SL. All comply with JASO MA or MA2 for wet clutches.

Shell Advance AX7: 15.8
Putoline Super DX4: 15.1
Elf Moto 4: 14.6
Silkolene Comp 4: 14.28
Halfords semi: 14.0
Castrol Power 1: 13.5

Now obviously, these figures only apply to new, fresh oil straight from the bottle. It does not indicate how the oil will perform after 2,000 miles of riding. But the Shell oil is around 15% more viscous at 100 Celsius than the Castrol. The Castrol spec is at the low end of "40 weight", and closer to a 10W30 spec. Whereas the Shell's spec is at the high end, and closer to a 10W50.

That means the Shell oil, when new, will create a bit more oil drag in the engine because of its viscosity; but it's also likely to have a longer-lasting oil film on components. Conversely, the Castrol will have a little less oil drag, and this may support Castrol's claim of 'better acceleration with Power-1".

Of course, there are all sorts of additives in the oil that also help prevent wear, oxidation and so on, and the impact of these can't be measured in terms of viscosity. But the point stands that some oil specifications are at the low end of 10W40 viscosity specifications, and others are at the high end.

Whether you'd be able to tell the difference in which oil you used in terms of engine wear, power output etc after 50,000 miles is, of course, impossible to know. But this may help to explain why some people report that their bike feels different when using a different oil.

[embee]

Good work Craig, I like that sort of stuff.

[Swin]

Silkolene Comp 4 for me :)

[Blapper]

FWIW Suzuki recommends an oil of API SF/SG JASO MA2 such as their Performance 4 for my 2001 SV650S so any oil I use will be SF/SG JASO MA2. That nice expensive Motul is destined for the recycling tank then maybe I'll have a normal feeling clutch. Hopefully.

[Bibio]

Blapper, it might not be the oil and instead the clutch mech needing a service/lube or even the clutch cable needing a lube or replaced.

[Luckypants]

I'd make sure that the clutch is correctly adjusted, worm gear correctly lubed and adjusted, cables are smooth and levers 100% before anything else.
That's what I said .. [emoji15]

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[AlexAdams]

Bike specific oil from Halfords of the right type, I bet there's not a single ounce of proof that any one has actually worn their engine out prematurely from using cheap oil. Change the oil and filter as per the manual and your engine will be fine.

If you want starship mileage from your engine then changing the oil and filter more regularly will increase the life of the engine.

[Fen Tiger]

Silkolene Comp 4, currently.
I think the zinc addictive issue has credence and like to use an SG rated bike oil. On big pushrod engines the SG or older rating is a must to prevent excess wear at the tappets. Not so relevant on the SV.

[Craig380]

Silkolene Comp 4, currently.
I think the zinc addictive issue has credence and like to use an SG rated bike oil.

How many bottles are you on per day? ;):D

[Fen Tiger]

Ha! Zapped by the auto correct uncorrection again!

[Blapper]

OK, well thanks for your input guys. After about 500 miles I replaced the Motul liquid gold with some Silkolene semi-synth that hit all of the right specs. My engine sounds quieter (I like that), and my clutch feel has changed for the better although I think it needs longer before it will have displaced all traces of the Motul oil from the clutch.

I found a great local guy on 'bay who sells it for £24/4 litres. That's about half the cost of the wrong stuff...