Can you help me read my stator test? (w/pictures)

[OliviaSF]

Can you confirm if this means my stator is shot, or if i'm an idiot who can't do this properly ?
i included the service manual page so can see for yourself.

16040160421604316044

[OliviaSF]

I couldnt put all the pictures, but i tested the resistance between the 2 stator wires that are together, and between the 3 of them that are together (all combination and including a ground test through the frame of the bike which didn't show any current).
However number said .8 throughout the 3 wires combination tests, and that 193 number between the 2 wires.
seems like it should be max .55 for the 3 wires and online I foundout that testing for continuity between the 2 wires should probably give a umber close to zero. Is that right?

[glang]

yes youre right the readings should be a max of 0.55 ohmns but I would expect a failed stator to give unbalanced readings either really high or low not the same on all three phases. Normally only one of the three coils fails and goes open circuit or shorts out with, frequently in the latter case, a low resistance to the frame.
I recommend carrying on with the other tests....

[Geodude]

Give the guides in my sig a read through, they are very easy to follow and must be if an idiot like me can follow them ;) HTH

[Bibio]

i think your measuring the wrong connector. remove the 3 yellow wire plug that goes into the 3 white wires from the reg/rec and measure the ohm reading there.

[OliviaSF]

just to remove some confusion: these picture are for the stator test, not the regulator test. I actually have a weird reading with the regulator test too, but didn't want to confuse the issue of this stator test reading. (plus I couldnt put up any more pictures).

Glang I am going to do just that: waiting on my new battery to test the stator while going up to 5000 as the service manual says (if I manage to turn the bike on!).I did test the shorts with the frame and that was normal (not showing any thing)

For the regulator (another test not pictured here) what what weird in my testing is that i get numbers in the 530s something (yes on the diode test, the one with the arrow) but also consistent across all 3, and nothing the other way (when I switch red and black probes to do the test again that way).

I think maybe I shot both stator and regulator. the battery was fried and the headlight fried too when the bike stopped working.

[Bibio]

just to remove some confusion: these picture are for the stator test, not the regulator test. I actually have a weird reading with the regulator test too, but didn't want to confuse the issue of this stator test reading. (plus I couldnt put up any more pictures).

yup. but your reading the wrong connector. the 3 yellow wires that come out of the stator and go into the rec/reg are the ones you need to take a reading from before they go into the rec/reg. the ones you are taking a reading from at the moment are the DC side after the rec/reg.

look at the diagram it clearly states Y for ermm Yellow

[OliviaSF]

Give the guides in my sig a read through, they are very easy to follow and must be if an idiot like me can follow them ;) HTH

Hey Geodude,so I used the samevideo for the regulator test! (not the test pictured in this thread) and i have a question: My reading is around 530-540 on all 3 (and nothing with the reverse red and black probes), while in this video the guy gets a reading of .490 so what does it mean? why is mine in the 500s when his is a decimal point?
(yes I made sure to be on the diode, the arrow, just like the guy in the video)

[OliviaSF]

i think your measuring the wrong connector. remove the 3 yellow wire plug that goes into the 3 white wires from the reg/rec and measure the ohm reading there.
I did that (last picture and other pictures I couldnt post because it maxed out) and the reading came out at 0.8 on all 3 yellow wire combination. which is my question: does that mean it's shot?

[OliviaSF]

yup. but your reading the wrong connector. the 3 yellow wires that come out of the stator and go into the rec/reg are the ones you need to take a reading from before they go into the rec/reg. the ones you are taking a reading from at the moment are the DC side after the rec/reg.

look at the diagram it clearly states Y for ermm Yellow

the last picture is the correct reading (couldnt post all 3 pictures didnt have room). Those 3 yellow wires are the ones that feed alternating current created by the stator, to the regulator/rectifier which is why I tested them

[OliviaSF]

Give the guides in my sig a read through, they are very easy to follow and must be if an idiot like me can follow them ;) HTH

the electrical fault finding diagram in your signature seems cool but assumes I can start the bike. And right now i cant... :(

[Bibio]

you should see 0.8ohm or there abouts between each of the wires. since you are showing 0.8ohm then the stator is reading correct.

you then have to run the bike and do the same to get the AC reading which should be around 70vac at 5000 revs. if this all checks out you then move onto the rec/reg.

connect the wires back up then run the bike again. you should see around 14vdc at the battery terminals with the bike revving at 5000k with the lights on full beam. if you dont then the rec/reg is fubar.

you MUST have a healthy battery or you will get a false reading.

[OliviaSF]

you should see 0.8ohm or there abouts between each of the wires. since you are showing 0.8ohm then the stator is reading correct.

you then have to run the bike and do the same to get the AC reading which should be around 70vac at 5000 revs. if this all checks out you then move onto the rec/reg.

connect the wires back up then run the bike again. you should see around 14vdc at the battery terminals with the bike revving at 5000k with the lights on full beam. if you dont then the rec/reg is fubar.

you MUST have a healthy battery or you will get a false reading.

Cool. Yeah I ordered a new battery because this last one is shot (under a year old!), hopefully I can start it with a new battery but I'm not sure I'll be able too because the bike was working when it failed and just died on me while riding. Jump starting it didnt start it (but the starter worked when the jump cables were pluggedin!), so I'm trying to see what electrical issue exists that killed the battery and prevented it from starting even with the jump start.... Any advice welcome. I'm going through service manual and waiting for new battery from revzilla to arrive.

I tested the regulator and I get readings around 530 but consistent accross all 3 (and nothing the reverse way). The book expects a reading between 1.5 and 0.4 so what does 530-ish mean? (or does my voltmeter just not show decimal point for this?)

[Bibio]

your getting a wrong reading as you need to do a diode test not a ohm test. a diode test indicates if the diodes in the rectifier section of the rec/reg are ok. its the diodes that covert the AC to DC and if they fail they can let AC through. look up 'bridge rectifier' on google for an understanding.

[OliviaSF]

your getting a wrong reading as you need to do a diode test not a ohm test. a diode test indicates if the diodes in the rectifier section of the rec/reg are ok. its the diodes that covert the AC to DC and if they fail they can let AC through. look up 'bridge rectifier' on google for an understanding.
I get that regulator reading with the diode test.
i know you test stator with Ohm and regulator with diode.
So what does it mean?

[OliviaSF]

this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dINJqxecb28
also gets a reading in the 500s.
why i'm confused is because the service manual tells me i should get anywhere from 0.4 to 1.5 and I get in the500s.

[Bibio]

looking at the pics it looks like you have the multimeter set to ohms.

[OliviaSF]

looking at the pics it looks like you have the multimeter set to ohms.
I didnt post any pituresof the regulator test.Those pictures are of the stator test

[glang]

Some instruments change scale at smaller readings so 500 could be in millivolts and is of course 0.5volts. However you should get a higher reverse reading - are you getting zero or out of range like when the leads are completely disconnected?

[Bibio]

so why are you probing the DC side connector?

you dont do a diode test on the stator as there are none.

[OliviaSF]

Some instruments change scale at smaller readings so 500 could be in millivolts and is of course 0.5volts. However you should get a higher reverse reading - are you getting zero or out of range like when the leads are completely disconnected?
thanks for answering!
I get out of range like when leads are disconnected. does that mean the regulator is working then?

[OliviaSF]

so why are you probing the DC side connector?

you dont do a diode test on the stator as there are none.
you do a diode test on the stator when you dont have a sound button on the multimeter and you want to check continuity. that's why I did it. and the numbers should be close to zero (to check continuity) so I posted the pictures to find out if someone knew why they were so high.

[glang]

Well it sounds like it cos although the reg/rec readings arent exactly what the manual says at least theyre balanced and as with the stator if theres a failure its normally causes imbalance. However theres still no explanation of whats happened......

[OliviaSF]

Sorry, i mean an ohm test you're confusing me. I didnt do diode test on the stator. just ohm. as you can see on the picture.

[OliviaSF]

Well it sounds like it cos although the reg/rec readings arent exactly what the manual says at least theyre balanced and as with the stator if theres a failure its normally causes imbalance. However theres still no explanation of whats happened......
yeah waiting for the battery to see if I can fire up the bike and test the stator in the 5000 rev like the book says.

online I found this video of an SV650 with the magnet surrounding the stator all broken, aparently it's rare but it happens. So i'm thinking my next step after I get the battery and if it doesnt start is to open it up and see what the stator and the magnets look like....

[Bibio]

but your not probing the stator in the first two pics. let me explain. the only thing you are concerned about when it comes to the stator is the three yellow wires. when you do an ohms test you are checking for continuity by measuring the ohms resistance between these yellow wires which are connected to the coils inside the stator. this is all you need to do as regards the stator until you can get the bike running.

the diode test is for the rec/reg to check that the diodes have not broken down on the reg/rec it has nothing to do with the stator. you must disconnect the rec/reg to test it.

[OliviaSF]

but your not probing the stator in the first two pics. let me explain. the only thing you are concerned about when it comes to the stator is the three yellow wires. when you do an ohms test you are checking for continuity by measuring the ohms resistance between these yellow wires which are connected to the coils inside the stator. this is all you need to do as regards the stator until you can get the bike running.

the diode test is for the rec/reg to check that the diodes have not broken down on the reg/rec it has nothing to do with the stator. you must disconnect the rec/reg to test it.
bibio I appreciate you're trying to help, thank you, but you continuously questioning my testing method (when others have confirmed I'm doing it properly) is not helpful.
i've said this a bunch of times but here it is again: these pictures are from a stator test, NOT a regulator test. I've tested the r/r and yes it wasn't on the bike. I use ohm for stator, and diode for regulator. Read all previous posts and pay attention you will understand.

[OliviaSF]

and the first 2 pictures are of the DC testing for continuity (trying to figure out why it read so high). I wanted to post all 3 readings of .8 (yellow wires) but the system wouldnt let me so there is only one up

[OliviaSF]

Glang: Just following on the regulator test on the diode setting. I'm glad you clarified that 500 is indeed .5 makes sense. So the other side should be a 1.5 and it's just at nothing (as you said, it reads as if the voltmeter wasnt connected), now I'm wondering does that mean regulator is shot?

[glang]

ok ok, while youre waiting for the battery can we just double check the r/r readings as this is, by a long way, where the biggest chance of failure is.
Using the diode setting on the multimeter can you fill out a chart exactly like the one in the manual with all the readings and then post it on here? You should have all the readings including the ones between each incoming AC wire and the outgoing DC ones....

[Bibio]

well then you have continuity.

yes i am trying to help. i think its you who is getting confused and i'm trying to clarify things.

you DONT need to probe the DC side unless its for testing the diodes of the rec/reg to which you need a diode tester and not a multimeter. or for running voltage to battery.

your stator reading looks fine if all three yellow wires are at around the 0.8ohm.

your probing the loom side of the DC when you dont need to you measure this at the rec/reg.

if you will let me i will try to let you understand what goes on with the charging system.

AC voltage (70vac) comes out of the stator via the three yellow wires and then goes into the Rectifier portion of the rec/reg which then gets converted into 70vdc via a bridge rectifier. this 70vdc then gets moved onto the Regulation portion of the rec/reg to bring it down to a more suitable level of 14vdc which then charges your battery.

but you can tell me to pizz off and carry on regardless.

[OliviaSF]

ok ok, while youre waiting for the battery can we just double check the r/r readings as this is, by a long way, where the biggest chance of failure is.
Using the diode setting on the multimeter can you fill out a chart exactly like the one in the manual with all the readings and then post it on here? You should have all the readings including the ones between each incoming AC wire and the outgoing DC ones....
just redid a reading: I took a picture 16045
the N corresponds to what you wree saying: it shows a 1 just like when the probes aren't touching anything
I didnt do the table yesterday and now that I look at it i think it's pretty much a shot regulator... what do you think?

[OliviaSF]

well then you have continuity.


your stator reading looks fine if all three yellow wires are at around the 0.8ohm.

your probing the loom side of the DC when you dont need to you measure this at the rec/reg.

if you will let me i will try to let you understand what goes on with the charging system.

AC voltage (70vac) comes out of the stator via the three yellow wires and then goes into the Rectifier portion of the rec/reg which then gets converted into 70vdc via a bridge rectifier. this 70vdc then gets moved onto the Regulation portion of the rec/reg to bring it down to a more suitable level of 14vdc which then charges your battery.

but you can tell me to pizz off and carry on regardless.

cool yeah, I think I need to move onto the stator test with bikeon.
I hear you regarding the DC,Ihsouldnt have posted it in the same post as it was confusing, but that reading seemed weird and I was just wondering if it meant something. if it doesnt it doesn't let move on.

no need to pizz off if you wanna help!:smt023 alright then, now i've posted a picture of the regulator results in previous reply, what do you think of those?

[OliviaSF]

1604616047 service manual page for reference

[glang]

I cant see anything wrong with those readings. Although they dont match the manual exactly theyre balanced and have the same pattern. I think the reason for the N readings is down to the instrument having a small range and the results being outside its limit.
Of course the r/r also regulates the DC output voltage but I dont know of any more tests you can do except putting on the new battery and trying it. When do you expect to get it?

[OliviaSF]

I cant see anything wrong with those readings. Although they dont match the manual exactly theyre balanced and have the same pattern. I think the reason for the N readings is down to the instrument having a small range and the results being outside its limit.
Of course the r/r also regulates the DC output voltage but I dont know of any more tests you can do except putting on the new battery and trying it. When do you expect to get it?

wow glad I asked because it's really confusing i would have thought it is dead like that! I just purchased this voltmeter, so weird that it wont read in that range. bummer for a beginner trying to figure it out.

ordered the battery on revzilla. com, yesterday I got the message it shipped out, so not sure but my friends tell me they're fast so any day.

any advice on other testing, or checking connections, before battery is here is welcome!

btw not sure if there is a link or is it is relevant but my headlight blew when the bike died (the bike died while i was riding, light flickered, then starter worked but didnt start bike and rapidly the bike's battery just died. couldnt charge the battery at home so brought it to an auto garage who tried to charge it but they said it was dead- which is why i ordered a new one)
I mention this because my dad seems to think when the light bulb and the battery fry it could be a regulator problem...

[Bibio]

if your multi meter dial is indeed at the 6'oclock position and your getting readings like that then your rec/reg is fubar as with those high readings from a diode would indicate open diodes which would let AC straight through.

thats the last i will say on the subject and let you get on with it.

[OliviaSF]

if your multi meter dial is indeed at the 6'oclock position and your getting readings like that then your rec/reg is fubar as with those high readings from a diode would indicate open diodes which would let AC straight through.

thats the last i will say on the subject and let you get on with it.
16048

16049
Here is my voltmeter with + on B/W and - on red (the highest reading in the table), and another picture of + on b/w and - on Y1

[glang]

My take on it is that if the N reading is the same as you get with the leads disconnected the diode your testing must be 'closed' ie high resistance so not allowing current through. Olivia what does your meter indicate when set to diode position and the leads connected together? I would expect a zero not the N you get with the leads apart. I certainly dont like the symptoms you experienced which really do sound like an r/r problem....

[OliviaSF]

My take on it is that if the N reading is the same as you get with the leads disconnected the diode your testing must be 'closed' ie high resistance so not allowing current through. Olivia what does your meter indicate when set to diode position and the leads connected together? I would expect a zero not the N you get with the leads apart. I certainly dont like the symptoms you experienced which really do sound like an r/r problem....
You are right, it is 000 reading when I touch the 2 leads together, so not the same as when they don't touch anything.
my buddy thinks the reading between +R and -b/w is double what it should be (that really high number top right in my hand drawn table). do you concur?
Should I just go ahead and order a new r/r? or wait for the battery (but the r/r test should stay the same....)

[OliviaSF]

My take on it is that if the N reading is the same as you get with the leads disconnected the diode your testing must be 'closed' ie high resistance so not allowing current through. Olivia what does your meter indicate when set to diode position and the leads connected together? I would expect a zero not the N you get with the leads apart. I certainly dont like the symptoms you experienced which really do sound like an r/r problem....
I dont know whatit means if the current doesnt go through (the N reading) does that mean the r/r is dead? or is that good? (sorry for the stupid question)

[glang]

That reading of 1195 is only a bit more than double the other readings (similar to the possible difference shown in the manual) and is like that because your passing current through various diodes at the same time. Its possible that one of the diodes has failed and become high resistance but doesnt show up in the other readings because its outside the meter range and shows N.
I normally do this test using the resistance setting of my meter not diode - its doing the same thing but reads ohms rather than volts and your meter might have more range on this setting. Could you repeat it using resistance and note you might have to change the range selection on the meter a few times to get proper readings?

[OliviaSF]

That reading of 1195 is only a bit more than double the other readings (similar to the possible difference shown in the manual) and is like that because your passing current through various diodes at the same time. Its possible that one of the diodes has failed and become high resistance but doesnt show up in the other readings because its outside the meter range and shows N.
I normally do this test using the resistance setting of my meter not diode - its doing the same thing but reads ohms rather than volts and your meter might have more range on this setting. Could you repeat it using resistance and note you might have to change the range selection on the meter a few times to get proper readings?
Yes I will do that! I have several ohm modes (200, 2000, 200k, and 20M) Ill try all of them and report back ! thanks :)

[OliviaSF]

That reading of 1195 is only a bit more than double the other readings (similar to the possible difference shown in the manual) and is like that because your passing current through various diodes at the same time. Its possible that one of the diodes has failed and become high resistance but doesnt show up in the other readings because its outside the meter range and shows N.
I normally do this test using the resistance setting of my meter not diode - its doing the same thing but reads ohms rather than volts and your meter might have more range on this setting. Could you repeat it using resistance and note you might have to change the range selection on the meter a few times to get proper readings?
16050glang: here is the reading with voltmeter on 200k ohm

[glang]

The diodes are gates that stop current passing one way (high resistance reading) and let it through the other (low resistance reading). They can fail in two ways: always open or always closed both of which stop the correct supply of power but because of the way theyre connected you have to take all these readings to test theyre all ok.
Its a pain to do especially as in your case it sounds like the r/r must be bad but as theyre not that cheap great if you can definitely prove it before spending the money!

[glang]

Your readings are so consistent that if it has failed every diode appears to have failed the same way! Are you in a rush to get the bike on the road? If not I can take the same readings from mine tomorrow to compare otherwise I cant see any other option but to order a new r/r. As I said they also control the voltage which if it went excessively high could explain the problems you had but theres no testing it without getting to the electronics inside....

[OliviaSF]

Your readings are so consistent that if it has failed every diode appears to have failed the same way! Are you in a rush to get the bike on the road? If not I can take the same readings from mine tomorrow to compare otherwise I cant see any other option but to order a new r/r. As I said they also control the voltage which if it went excessively high could explain the problems you had but theres no testing it without getting to the electronics inside....

Out of curiosity i checked my old r/r (i replaced the stock one in november, so i tested the stock one. Fyi: i couldnt quite get the tests right then too and just decided to change the regulator. So if i compare: they are either both dead or both working.16052

I definitely can wait until you do reading on yours! that would be fantastic!

[OliviaSF]

Out of curiosity i checked my old r/r (i replaced the stock one in november, so i tested the stock one. Fyi: i couldnt quite get the tests right then too and just decided to change the regulator. So if i compare: they are either both dead or both working.16051

I definitely can wait until you do reading on yours! that would be fantastic!
Actually I'm an idiot, you can tell on the old one that the stock r/r must be dead since the right hand column on diode mode didnt show anything (while it shows numbers on the newer one), right?

UPDATE: ok I redid the test because of that right hand column and my numbers were wrong in that column. So sorry. here are the right numbers:16052
so back to thinking they are both dead or both good.

[glang]

So I take it that after you changed the original r/r the system worked fine again? The resistance readings look very similar to the ones youve just taken! I have had repeat failures of these units before (not SV) and then on the 2nd attempt the problem never returned but I suspect it was down to bump starting/jump starting the bike. Now I always avoid this, if possible, by recharging the battery and then starting cos I think the heavy current drawn to recharge a flat battery can fry the diodes.
I'll post my readings tomorrow.

[OliviaSF]

So I take it that after you changed the original r/r the system worked fine again? The resistance readings look very similar to the ones youve just taken! I have had repeat failures of these units before (not SV) and then on the 2nd attempt the problem never returned but I suspect it was down to bump starting/jump starting the bike. Now I always avoid this, if possible, by recharging the battery and then starting cos I think the heavy current drawn to recharge a flat battery can fry the diodes.
I'll post my readings tomorrow.

I think your readings will be very helpful.

They are super similar indeed! weird right? either they both failed the same way (is it even possible?) - or they are both good and i never had a r/r problem to start with but another electrical problem that killed my first battery as well as this battery that I just installed in november...

[glang]

Heres the readings my manual shows which are different to your version and much closer to the values you measured

[OliviaSF]

Heres the readings my manual shows which are different to your version and much closer to the values you measured
Thank you so much for this Glang! this is so helpful! They both seem like good regulators with your numbers!!!:smt060

[glang]

And heres the diagram of the complete circuit. You can see 6 diodes which youve tested but the other components are 3 thyristors which are controlled by a voltage sensor and ensure you get the correct DC supply. It must be this part, which cant be tested, thats failed and allowed your voltage to go high and blow bulbs etc. I'll still check my readings but I reckon that youre going to need a new r/r. If you look on the site theres recommendations as to best units....

[OliviaSF]

And heres the diagram of the complete circuit. You can see 6 diodes which youve tested but the other components are 3 thyristors which are controlled by a voltage sensor and ensure you get the correct DC supply. It must be this part, which cant be tested, thats failed and allowed your voltage to go high and blow bulbs etc. I'll still check my readings but I reckon that youre going to need a new r/r. If you look on the site theres recommendations as to best units....

So you think both regulators have bad thyristors?
I'm enclined to think they are good and the problem lies elsewhere... but I really dont know. Here is a bit of background:
- i use the bike quasi-daily and i go on long rides almost every week end
- the first regulator did overcharge my battery (it went up to 18v on day 1 of the new battery in november 2015, so I changed the regulator and then bike worked);
- second time was last sunday when the bike would not start at a gas station while on a ride (had been riding for 2 hours, stopped 5 minutes), then it started with a portable jump start only to die 2 blocks later died while running. lights flickered a bit while it died. a car tried to jump start it and all the electrical seemed to work (started working) but the bike didnt start, the motor didnt start i mean, and then the battery died competely in a few minutes had to tow it home. battery is dead-dead.

[OliviaSF]

Heres the readings my manual shows which are different to your version and much closer to the values you measured

Dumb question: Glang do you have an sv650 year between 1999-2002?

[glang]

At what stage did the bulbs blow last Sunday? I just cant think of anything else that would give an over voltage like that as loose connections etc would produce the opposite and leave a flat battery. Saying that I know that these systems in general shouldnt be operated without the battery so a poor connection here wouldnt be good - I take it you didnt find anything like that?
Mines a 2006 but the r/r will be very similar....

[OliviaSF]

At what stage did the bulbs blow last Sunday? I just cant think of anything else that would give an over voltage like that as loose connections etc would produce the opposite and leave a flat battery. Saying that I know that these systems in general shouldnt be operated without the battery so a poor connection here wouldnt be good - I take it you didnt find anything like that?
Mines a 2006 but the r/r will be very similar....

unfortunately I dont know when the headlight bulb blew, I only noticed it when I changed it yesterday, my bright bulb was out from before. It might be a coincidence.

I'm trying to understand what you are saying: the system should not be operated without battery, so you mean when my battery died and we tried to jump start it it might have shot something in the system?

I'm inclined to believe the 2 regulators are probably good and something else is going on. Don't you think it would be weird that both would have that same specific problem and no other (measurable) failure? what made you think they are both dead?

[glang]

Its just that the battery helps stabilise the system voltage as it acts like a big reservoir. Without it the voltage control and thyristors struggle to control well as the voltage can fluctuate too rapidly. Its not guaranteed to do damage but can - plenty of stuff on line especially about cars. Yours didnt run for long so unlikely to have been damged but it also says that some just wont run without a decent battery.
Ive got no concrete reason for suspecting the r/r but just cant think of anything else. How about you try it with the new battery immediately measuring the voltage and then turn off if theres anything wrong before any damage is done?

[OliviaSF]

Its just that the battery helps stabilise the system voltage as it acts like a big reservoir. Without it the voltage control and thyristors struggle to control well as the voltage can fluctuate too rapidly. Its not guaranteed to do damage but can - plenty of stuff on line especially about cars. Yours didnt run for long so unlikely to have been damged but it also says that some just wont run without a decent battery.
Ive got no concrete reason for suspecting the r/r but just cant think of anything else. How about you try it with the new battery immediately measuring the voltage and then turn off if theres anything wrong before any damage is done?
yes i'm going to do that. :D

I'm also going to check the starter clutch (chapter 7 on electrical system says if the bike's starter worked but the bike didnt turn on it can be a faulty starter clutch)
I also might check the side stand ignition interlock system.
someone told me to check the fuel pump (even though i doubt it),
and just generally I'm going to go through the connections and check they're not corroded (i live by the ocean)...

[OliviaSF]

Its just that the battery helps stabilise the system voltage as it acts like a big reservoir. Without it the voltage control and thyristors struggle to control well as the voltage can fluctuate too rapidly. Its not guaranteed to do damage but can - plenty of stuff on line especially about cars. Yours didnt run for long so unlikely to have been damged but it also says that some just wont run without a decent battery.
Ive got no concrete reason for suspecting the r/r but just cant think of anything else. How about you try it with the new battery immediately measuring the voltage and then turn off if theres anything wrong before any damage is done?

Hi glang. Ijust received my battery, i filled it with electrolytes and it was only at 12,7v so i plugged itin my charger/maintainer for a bit (light went on red which means charging).
I retested the stator resistance today and I get 0,7 on all 3 readings.
i'm also wondeirng if i should be putting my old r/r back in (as opposed to the one I just took out) because the top right number seems more appropriate on that one's table from the tests yesterday.
When I put the battery back in I'm going to check current. Hopefully the bike starts and I can run through your flow chart.

do you by any chance have other types of flow chart? like a flow chart "if bike it not starting" lol
I'm asking because, the bike was plugged into a car on jump start and the electrical system was responsive (light on and starter working) BUT the bike wasn't starting.Which means I might have to diagnose something before I can turn the bike on. In the book it says (chapter 7) that IF the starter works and the bike doesnt turn on it could be a faut starter clutch (which I have now learnt you can check easily by taking starter motor out and turning the wheel with a finger. its a pain to change however you need to go on the other side, where the stator is take it all out). My issue is that those screws are so tight I need to find a guy to come help... no luck yet on that front.

wanted to thank you again for yesterday helping me with the r/r reading

I'm still wondering why the manual I found online (sv650 99-02) and your manual have different readings for the r/r. On that same page there is the stator test (they don't call it that, they call it generator coil test),what is the number indicated there on your book? onmine it says .55 (and I get .7)
if you get a minute to check i'd really appreciate that. :)

[daktulos]

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the reg/rec isn't needed for starting (or even running) the engine, so it can be disconnected without affecting anything, until the battery runs down.

I guess it's possible that a broken reg/rec could stop the engine from starting, but if it's turning over I'd guess that the problem is elsewhere. Wouldn't it be better to get the engine started before looking at whether the reg/rec is broken?

Apologies if I've missed something in the thread which explains this already!

[OliviaSF]

ok,new battery went in, the starter worked but the bike didn't start. as I suspected... :( ( :( :(

[glang]

Hi, my manual says .2 - .7 ohms for the generator coils. I wouldn't worry about the starter just yet as it would be very unusual to have a second fault like that at the same time...... Here's my r/r readings (diode only as strangely I couldn't get any on ohms) which don't look too different to yours:p

[OliviaSF]

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the reg/rec isn't needed for starting (or even running) the engine, so it can be disconnected without affecting anything, until the battery runs down.

I guess it's possible that a broken reg/rec could stop the engine from starting, but if it's turning over I'd guess that the problem is elsewhere. Wouldn't it be better to get the engine started before looking at whether the reg/rec is broken?

Apologies if I've missed something in the thread which explains this already!
I think we've kind of ruled out the r/r as being the problem. seemed like it's numbers were ok.
however, the bike won't turn on so I can't test charging system :(

[OliviaSF]

Hi, my manual says .2 - .7 ohms for the generator coils. I wouldn't worry about the starter just yet as it would be very unusual to have a second fault like that at the same time...... Here's my r/r readings (diode only as strangely I couldn't get any on ohms) which don't look too different to yours:p
hey thanks for that!
So the bike isn't even starting, so i can't use your beautiful charging system test diagram.:(
wish I could post a video but it's too big. It makes the starter sound but it doesnt start the motor. thats what happened on the jump start the other day! any ideas?

[glang]

First is the engine turning over ok?

[daktulos]

What's the history of this? When/how did it stop running?

[OliviaSF]

First is the engine turning over ok?
I dont know what turning over means. sorry i'm such a novice.
i hear the starter (same sound like when you start a scooter and there is no gas it just never starts just makes that sound when you press the button). (and yes I have gas!) I have a video, where could I post so you can see?? or let me see if I can post on youtube and link it. give me 5 min

[OliviaSF]

First is the engine turning over ok?
here: https://youtu.be/LuXZhFBSm_Y

[daktulos]

i hear the starter (same sound like when you start a scooter and there is no gas it just never starts just makes that sound when you press the button). (and yes I have gas!)

That's it turning over, if it wasn't, it'd just click or make a humming noise. Basically, the starter motor is turning the engine - it's good news because it means the engine hasn't seized.

You need to check that you're getting fuel and a spark.

[OliviaSF]

What's the history of this? When/how did it stop running?
I was on a long ride sunday, a guy needed gas so we stopped after riding for a couple hours. I just go inside to pee and come back out and the bike wouldnt start. not even a sound. we try to jump start with hand held device, it works, but 2 blocks later my bike litteraly dies while I'm riding (as I am slowing down approaching a stop sign)
we try the hand held jump cable and the starter works (like video now) but not bike,and battery just dies. we try to run down a hill in second gear: didnt start. We tried to jump start on a car, lights and whatnot worked, starter too, but bike didnt start.Towed it home. Tested battery and it is dead (battery frech from november,less than a year old). Just put in new battery now and as you see it's back to that no starting issue.
So I want to know why it doesnt start, and then once it starts I will test the charging system (bike needs to run for that). :confused:

[glang]

Sorry I meant are you confident that the pistons are going up and down as usual and its not just the starter motor spinning on its own. I think it's almost certainly working normally and should sound the same as always? I'm not sure on your model if the kill switch or anything else will stop the ignition but still allow the starter to work.....

[OliviaSF]

Sorry I meant are you confident that the pistons are going up and down as usual and its not just the starter motor spinning on its own. I think it's almost certainly working normally and should sound the same as always? I'm not sure on your model if the kill switch or anything else will stop the ignition but still allow the starter to work.....

i dont think pistons are moving. although I cannot be sure.Did you check this youtube video (not sure if you can listen to sound where you are)?

here it's me trying to start it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuXZhFBSm_Y&feature=youtu.be

no starter wont work with kill switch. I have that switch on, i hold the clutch, i'm in neutral, and that's the sound...

[daktulos]

i dont think pistons are moving. although I cannot be sure.

I'm certain they are.

I assume that you've checked all the fuses?

(Ooops, posted too soon).

[OliviaSF]

That's it turning over, if it wasn't, it'd just click or make a humming noise. Basically, the starter motor is turning the engine - it's good news because it means the engine hasn't seized.

You need to check that you're getting fuel and a spark.

How can i check fuel? I mean I know I have fuel,and it's weird that it would just stop giving out fuel in the middle of a ride... no? but willing to check anything!!!
testing the spark I think you mean testing the spark plugs?

[OliviaSF]

I'm certain they are.

I assume that you've checked all the fuses?

(Ooops, posted too soon).
yeah I checked the fuses.
You can tell the piston are moving just from listening to the video?

the manual says: "if starter motor works but motor won't start -> faulty starter clutch" - thoughts?

[daktulos]

If you pull the fuel line off the output of the fuel pump, it should squirt fuel at you when you turn the starter motor. After that, there may be carb problems, but my guess is it's an electrical problem.

You should check that the spark plugs are generating a spark - pull them out (reconnect them) and hold the thread against the engine block (any earth) but not too near the cylinder to avoid igniting anything! You should see a regular spark when the starter motor is turned.

Do you have a Haynes manual? It would help a lot. There are also PDFs of the Suzuki maintenance manuals online somewhere ...

Edit: http://worvin.com/doku.php?id=motorcycles:manuals:suzuki:sv

[OliviaSF]

If you pull the fuel line off the output of the fuel pump, it should squirt fuel at you when you turn the starter motor. After that, there may be carb problems, but my guess is it's an electrical problem.

You should check that the spark plugs are generating a spark - pull them out (reconnect them) and hold the thread against the engine block (any earth) but not too near the cylinder to avoid igniting anything! You should see a regular spark when the starter motor is turned.

Do you have a Haynes manual? It would help a lot. There are also PDFs of the Suzuki maintenance manuals online somewhere ...
Ok! fuel and spark plugs (was kind of hoping I wouldnt have to take them out they're so far in there!) this is super helpful will try those and report back :smt023
I don't have a haynes manual, I do have the service manual I got online. I use that, and I generally check youtube videos if I'm not sure (and/or ask nice people on forums:smt055)

[glang]

Good luck Olivia - I think you may find that some component has failed due to the high voltage the bike suffered but sounds like you're well on track to find it. Hope it's nothing too bad and at least you're learning loads:cheers:

[OliviaSF]

ok just checked the fuel pump and that worked, fuel spewed out..What a pain to put that air filter boz back on top of the carburator! jeesh!!!

going to try the spark plugs now hopefully they aren't as hard to put back in place ;)

[OliviaSF]

If you pull the fuel line off the output of the fuel pump, it should squirt fuel at you when you turn the starter motor. After that, there may be carb problems, but my guess is it's an electrical problem.

You should check that the spark plugs are generating a spark - pull them out (reconnect them) and hold the thread against the engine block (any earth) but not too near the cylinder to avoid igniting anything! You should see a regular spark when the starter motor is turned.

Do you have a Haynes manual? It would help a lot. There are also PDFs of the Suzuki maintenance manuals online somewhere ...

Edit: http://worvin.com/doku.php?id=motorcycles:manuals:suzuki:sv

I did the spark plug that's under the fuel tank: visually it looks fine and it tests at 3.70 on 20kohm setting. I put it in the cap and placedit against the frame and didnt get a spark. i located the coil and put my voltmeter on the 2 wires and got 4.7 on 200 ohm setting.

will look at second spark plug tomorrow. I'm not sure what to thing about my spark plug and coil result so far. :(

[daktulos]

Make sure the frame isn't painted as you need a good electrical connection, but it sounds like you've found your problem. If your meter has a frequency mode, you should be able to test the signal side of the coil packs while the starter is turning. One of these is also available at the back of the tachometer if this is easier to get to.

The electrical diagram has "ignition control unit" next upstream, and I don't actually know where this is.

Edit: With the second spark plug, be careful of the radiator, it's REALLY easy to damage while removing the spark plug.

[OliviaSF]

I tested my fuses this morning and found this: (new thread) http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=3053843#post3053843
trying to figure out what that means....????

do I still need to test ignition? coils?

[daktulos]

How were you testing them? I'd normally just check for continuity with fuses.

[OliviaSF]

with the voltmeter on amps (its really low, but it should be zero if everything is grounded and i'm not loosing power is my understanding) the bike off

[nutzboutbikes]

Kill switch, Clutch switch or stand switch!?.

[OliviaSF]

Kill switch, Clutch switch or stand switch!?.
well the bike starts, it just doesnt spark. I think if it were those switches it wont start at all, right?
see video of the noise the bike makes when I try to start it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuXZhFBSm_Y&feature=youtu.be

[nutzboutbikes]

It turns over but it doesn't start!, They all kill the spark!

[OliviaSF]

It turns over but it doesn't start!, They all kill the spark!
really? my god I'm so ignorant. so if those have a problem it would still make starting noise?

Ok, I have to figure out how to test those then. have to figure out what part of the manual

[nutzboutbikes]

I have a track bike which I have bridged the switches on so I could remove them!, I think it works that way but someone may chime in and correct me, reading through the thread it was what came to mind!.

[OliviaSF]

i'm still confused by what you are saying because when everything was working, I could not start the bike (or hear any noise at all) if I didn't have clutch in, or if i wasn't in neutral and kick stand was up, or if the switch was on.
So you're saying they don't prevent it from turning on but they kill it?

[OliviaSF]

the bike doesnt stall, it just wont spark

[nutzboutbikes]

Stall? in the video it doesn't start it just spins over, that why I thought kill/clutch/stand switch as its not sparking!

[OliviaSF]

Stall? in the video it doesn't start it just spins over, that why I thought kill/clutch/stand switch as its not sparking!
yeah.
so what i'm trying to say is that in normal working condition, my bike will NOT turn over UNLESS the clutch is in, the switch is on, and the bike is in neutral on side kick down.
so i'm just guessing, if kill switch is not working it will be like an off kill switch (not turning over), or if the clutch switch is killed it will be like if I didnt pull the clutch (not turning over) or if the stand switch is killed it will be like stand up on a gear (not turning over). I might be doing wrong deduction, but intuitively, it seems that my bike would not turn over at all if those 3 items had failed. am i wrong?

[nutzboutbikes]

That sounds correct, like I say couldn't remember if it would still spin over if they were not working correctly! when it comes to electrics I am not the brightest spark lol.

[daktulos]

I might be doing wrong deduction, but intuitively, it seems that my bike would not turn over at all if those 3 items had failed. am i wrong?
The kill switch definitely stops the starter motor. I try to start the bike enough with it on to remember. The same goes for the clutch - the whole point of it is to prevent the starter motor from running inc case it's in gear. So, I doubt either of these are your problem.

The side-stand switch I'm less sure about - from memory you can start the bike in neutral with the side-stand down, but it cuts out of it's in gear. I think it would also kill the starter, so I'm not sure it's this either.

All from memory though, I'm afraid.

Did you see if you were getting a signal on input of the coil packs? My money is on those at the moment.

[OliviaSF]

The kill switch definitely stops the starter motor. I try to start the bike enough with it on to remember. The same goes for the clutch - the whole point of it is to prevent the starter motor from running inc case it's in gear. So, I doubt either of these are your problem.

The side-stand switch I'm less sure about - from memory you can start the bike in neutral with the side-stand down, but it cuts out of it's in gear. I think it would also kill the starter, so I'm not sure it's this either.

All from memory though, I'm afraid.

Did you see if you were getting a signal on input of the coil packs? My money is on those at the moment.

so, I just got done testing the ohms on the ignition coils and both are within specs.
waiting for my friend to get here to test while trying to turn the bike on, because I havent figured out how to cluth, press starter button and measure voltage going on :p
I dont think they look bad, and the ohm test is good. so I'm just guessing its not the coils.
what's the test after coils?

[daktulos]

Looking at the circuit diagram, the engine stop switch kills the +ve to the coil packs (would stop a running engine) and to the starter switch (would prevent the starter motor from running).

The starter switch is in series with the clutch switch, so they're effectively the same thing. Both need pushing to start the motor, neither are related to the coils.

The side stand switch and neutral indicator go through a relay which provides the +ve to the kill switch, but it also goes to the ignition control unit, which is a black box. My guess is that if either of these was faulty, the starter motor wouldn't turn either.

[daktulos]

I dont think they look bad, and the ohm test is good. so I'm just guessing its not the coils.
what's the test after coils?

If you're getting no signal to the coils it could be the ignition control unit or the crankshaft position sensor. Both of these sound expensive to me - in fact, for the ICU, the Haynes manual says "No details are available for checking the ICU on home workshop equipment. Take the machine to a Suzuki dealer for testing."

I'm afraid this is getting well beyond my experience now ... I can take a photo of the Haynes page for checking the position sensor, if that would help, though!

[daktulos]

Attached, good luck!