View Full Version : GSXR front end finished
Well it was a weirdly long road to get here (mainly due to waiting on parts, brackets etc) but it's finally done. A few tweeks are needed here and there but I'll iron these out over time.
I'm really happy with the looks and the handling so far, I've not really pushed it due to wanting to make sure I don't send my pride and joy down the road, so baby steps!
Front end: Complete k3/k4 GSXR1000 (forks, triples)
Front wheel: SV1000
Discs: 298mm GSXR1000 (you'll find these on various 750's as well)
Top yoke: http://topyoke.uk (I'd only recommend this guy if you're VERY patient and can take his belligerent responses when you complain about a 48 hour turn around turning into 3 months)
Handlebars: Stock SV1000N at the moment. Intend to change these at some point
Calipers: R6 Monobloc (milled down 7mm to center the pads on the discs)
Master Cylinder: F4i (intend to get a Brembo unit from a Ducati 696 or maybe splash out on an RCS effort, but want to retain the coffin look)
Other than changing the bearings to tapered, this wasn't actually a difficult job at all. If I had ALL the bits I needed, I'd have had this completed in a few hours.
Pics before:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4078/35566310936_09ac82e086_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4264/35218787980_14a8bd9d11_b.jpg
Pics after:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4173/35566310986_6a53fcbe04_z.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4202/35218788070_34dddd585b_z.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4129/35566311056_cb524f5abb_z.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4126/35436919362_129f605784_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4205/35218788360_71a590f160_b.jpg
Things to fix:
Fork alignment, forgot to do this in the rush to get it all nipped up yesterday afternoon/evening
Clock: Brackets work well but there's a bit of flex so they bang off the light over bumps. Thinking either a simple bit of foam to take the impact or get a friend to machine a one off bracket to hold it firmly, removing the standard bracket the N clocks come with.
Master cylinder: Too wooden...Brembo from a Ducati Monster 696 is a possibility, needs to be 16mm to suit the R6 calipers.
Pads: Expensive race efforts...take too much heat to really bite, so will go with Yamaha OEM or maybe something else, will do my research.
If anyone likes, I can write up a details how-to guide. There seems to be a lot of guides about but not many which go into granular detail.
SheepShagger
26-06-17, 03:47 PM
Looks very nice, why did you go to all that aggro for a top yoke though, was none of the oem options any good? Also the discs seem small if going to all that trouble too. Not trying to detract, just curious.
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Wanted to keep the bar risers, not got any interest in clip ons and ZERO interest in drilling a standard GSXR top yoke, they're about 10mm thick at the only suitable place to drill. Plus it looks trick and was hardly a massive expense.
Discs...easiest option, I got the R6 calipers machined for a tenner. It'd cost me at least £35-£40 to buy proper spacers (I know I can buy generic ones but would rather do all this right)
I can always buy spacers for the calipers and bigger discs at a later date if I decide to track it, but right now it's fine - I'm no Rossi so I don't need hit-a-wall braking power while I'm pootling about in London.
However, I DEFINITELY want more feel so I'll get a better master cylinder if I can't do anything with the F4i one. The standard R6 discs are only 310mm anyway, so it's not like I'm losing out maaaaaaaaaassively.
But all very valid points :)
Matt would have made you an OEM frankenyoke if you had asked, this lets you use the naked clocks bracket and is the same style as the OEM yoke (with the V cut out).
brake pads, DP pads are superb, nice initial bite but loads of feel. i use DP pads with radial callipers and a bandit 1250 MC and it has loads of stopping power.
looking good :-)
DougieG
26-06-17, 07:20 PM
Looks very nice! I have some k9 750 forks ready to go in! Does the triple clamp just slit straight in? Cheers
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Looks very nice! I have some k9 750 forks ready to go in! Does the triple clamp just slit straight in? Cheers
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depends on what bottom yoke you have.
DougieG
26-06-17, 07:52 PM
depends on what bottom yoke you have.
I have the full front end off the gsxr to hopefully just slip in?
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yes but you will loose the steering lock with the K9 top yoke as its the opposite side to the SV.
DougieG
26-06-17, 08:04 PM
Good news and I was wondering what the other side top yoke would mean! Any top yokes I could swap for to keep the lock do you know?
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dont know what the fork centres are or the stem thread size is.
if you have the parts and a set of verniers then you can help fill in the missing information. i will guide you through it. even a measuring tape will do at a push.
DougieG
26-06-17, 08:22 PM
Legend! I will get it all fitted up and see if the lack of lock bothers me first! Need to find a garage that will do it first the local suzuki said no ha
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do it yourself, its easy.
DougieG
26-06-17, 08:28 PM
do it yourself, its easy.
No garage and dont know how I would get the front end kept off the ground
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put a rod through the hole in the front of the engine block then put on axle stands.
i dont have a garage and i done mine in my garden. if you have all the bits it should take you a day of easy work, if you go at it it will take 4hrs.
the secret is to make sure you have EVERYTHING you need first including the tools especially the stem locknut tool.
DougieG
26-06-17, 08:54 PM
Ah stem locknut tool good point I had to borrow one when i changed my stem nut so I could use a ram mount! Did you need anything else?
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its not a stem nut tool (thats just a big socket) you need the castellated socket tool to remove/install the actual locking nuts under the top yoke.
you also need a T40 security bit socket to get the ignition off/on.
tub of bearing grease. brake fluid.
i'll go check if the headstock bearings are the same. yes bearings are the same.
DougieG
26-06-17, 09:19 PM
Yeah big socket i can get, do you know where I can get the castlated one?
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ebay. think it might be best to start a new thread so not to clutter this one up.
DougieG
26-06-17, 09:21 PM
Yeah sorry guys
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Bikes looking good, much better with the gixxer front end :smt023
I've got the castle nut, you can borrow it DougleG.
This isn't exactly for the faint hearted. You need to do the following:
Buy new bearings (tapered seem most popular, I got mine from Ebay but they're all's balls) they come with new races (a metal cup that sits on the inside of the top/bottom of the headstock)
Tap out the exusting races - I would HIGHLY recommend you use proper punches for this, opposed to a screw driver
Remove the lower bearings from the GSXR triple (assuming the bearing's still on there)
Tap on the new bearings, they have to have a 'home' sound when tapping down, you'll know it when you hear it...it's like hitting a solid wall rather than a hollow one. Same with the races in the headstock
Torque wrench. People will tell you to go by feel...do you really want your top lock nut and steering stem lock nut potentially loose? They require 90Nm/80Nm respectively to torque correctly. The lower steering lock nut is approximately 40Nm
Looks like you have a 650, you'll need magnets and other bits and bobs to make sure the speedo works still.
As it's an S by the looks of it, you should be fine with the GSXR clip ons but if you want a bit of a rise (like the SV) then you'll want TL1000 clipons
You'll likely need the axle from the GSXR as I think the SV650 one is different. I stand to be corrected though.
But yeah, sod off and get your own thread, will ya :P
Matt would have made you an OEM frankenyoke if you had asked, this lets you use the naked clocks bracket and is the same style as the OEM yoke (with the V cut out).
brake pads, DP pads are superb, nice initial bite but loads of feel. i use DP pads with radial callipers and a bandit 1250 MC and it has loads of stopping power.
looking good :-)
Matt from Topyokes? Could have fooled me, I told him precisely what I was doing and he never mentioned that - he's got utterly no initiative or customer relation skills. I'd rather poke my eyes out than use him again. The turn around was a bloody joke.
What size is the Bandit MC? I know the standard Tokico's on the Gixxer's require a 14mm MC but the R6's require 16mm. I think going smaller requires longer lever travel for more braking force...if I remember rightly. I know going bigger isn't always the answer, kind of like jets for carbed bikes (been there with the VFR!)
Blapper
27-06-17, 10:11 AM
Matt from Topyokes? Could have fooled me, I told him precisely what I was doing and he never mentioned that - he's got utterly no initiative or customer relation skills. I'd rather poke my eyes out than use him again. The turn around was a bloody joke.
I know that feeling too, he is fubar for sure.
DougieG
27-06-17, 10:16 AM
I've got the castle nut, you can borrow it DougleG.
This isn't exactly for the faint hearted. You need to do the following:
Buy new bearings (tapered seem most popular, I got mine from Ebay but they're all's balls) they come with new races (a metal cup that sits on the inside of the top/bottom of the headstock)
Tap out the exusting races - I would HIGHLY recommend you use proper punches for this, opposed to a screw driver
Remove the lower bearings from the GSXR triple (assuming the bearing's still on there)
Tap on the new bearings, they have to have a 'home' sound when tapping down, you'll know it when you hear it...it's like hitting a solid wall rather than a hollow one. Same with the races in the headstock
Torque wrench. People will tell you to go by feel...do you really want your top lock nut and steering stem lock nut potentially loose? They require 90Nm/80Nm respectively to torque correctly. The lower steering lock nut is approximately 40Nm
Looks like you have a 650, you'll need magnets and other bits and bobs to make sure the speedo works still.
As it's an S by the looks of it, you should be fine with the GSXR clip ons but if you want a bit of a rise (like the SV) then you'll want TL1000 clipons
You'll likely need the axle from the GSXR as I think the SV650 one is different. I stand to be corrected though.
But yeah, sod off and get your own thread, will ya :P
I have an adjustable c spanner incoming so should be ok thanks. Also have some woodcraft riser clip ons coming in which i can swap between normal rise and an extra inch for a bit of longer ride stuff
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...thank you for posting this...
...imho, you made your tits too big, but I will not hold this against you...
...they should not be as big as your head...imho...
...I do very much like those frame slider thingies...they stick out a bit much too, but I can see the point of that...
...I want those frame sliders for my bike...
...you have answered many questions in this thread that I did not yet know to ask....
put a rod through the hole in the front of the engine block then put on axle stands.
i dont have a garage and i done mine in my garden. if you have all the bits it should take you a day of easy work, if you go at it it will take 4hrs.
the secret is to make sure you have EVERYTHING you need first including the tools especially the stem locknut tool.
...bingo...!!!...as they say in the states...if you are an old lady...
...imho, you made your tits too big, but I will not hold this against you...
...they should not be as big as your head...imho...
...probably...should...not...criticize... if you... write... every...thing like...this....................................... .................................................. .................................................. ....................... ...
I like your posts. But what is the obsession with ellipses? :confused:
no need to replace the bearings but tapered are nice.
torque settings are for fresh installed bearings, this is to make sure that the races are fully seated.
yes you will need a speedo drive fix on the 650. depending on the number of buttons on the front discs you can use magnets in them, this needs to be divisible by 4, depending on the year of SV you need either 4 or 8 evenly spaced magnets in the disc buttons. if you have an odd number of buttons on the discs then your out of luck and you will need something like my speedo drive kit.
DougieG
27-06-17, 12:53 PM
I'm changing the wheel too do I need to buy magnets or are they hidden in the wheel somewhere?
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no they are not hidden as there are none.
the SV has a speedo drive on the front wheel that is a magnetic. you need to mimic the pulses from the drive by other means.
this means you need to glue evenly spaced magnets in the middle of the front disc buttons and use a hall effect sensor to pick up the pulses. the hall effect sensor needs a bracket made up to attach to it to the fork lower positioned so the middle of the magnets is inline with the middle of the hall effect sensor at around 10mm gap between them.
as the wheel rotates the hall effect sensor picks up the pulses from the magnets and transfers this to the speedo.
you also need to splice the old speedo drive cable to the new hall effect sensor.
or just by one of my kits, no they aint cheep but they work.
DougieG
27-06-17, 01:19 PM
Have you got a website or deets on your kit?
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no website as i only sell my stuff on here.
the kit includes:
laser cut stainless steel disc with magnets that attaches to the rear sprocket bolts.
stainless steel swingarm marker plates with a drop bracket for the sensor.
custom sensor with full end to end cable (i had these specially made up) with OEM connector for the loom.
unlike traditional speedo drive installs that run off the front disc mines runs off the rear sprocket.
PM me if you want more details and prices.
no need to replace the bearings but tapered are nice.
torque settings are for fresh installed bearings, this is to make sure that the races are fully seated.
yes you will need a speedo drive fix on the 650. depending on the number of buttons on the front discs you can use magnets in them, this needs to be divisible by 4, depending on the year of SV you need either 4 or 8 evenly spaced magnets in the disc buttons. if you have an odd number of buttons on the discs then your out of luck and you will need something like my speedo drive kit.
What torque would you suggest for used bearings? I've scoured manuals and advice from all over the shop and I've never come across anything other than '90Nm for the top yoke nut, 80Nm for the top lock nut, 40Nm for the steering nut and then back it off quarter to half a turn'
You can't go by "feel" when it comes to making sure the front end is locked in place properly, surely.
I have an adjustable c spanner incoming so should be ok thanks. Also have some woodcraft riser clip ons coming in which i can swap between normal rise and an extra inch for a bit of longer ride stuff
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The C-spanner won't give you a torque reading, I'm just sayin'. The castle nut's there if you need it. Would rather know you're nipping everything up correctly than guess working it, the front end kind of matters!
DougieG
27-06-17, 04:43 PM
Excellent point! Where are you?
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Just outside Greenwich. About an hour from you if you pin the throttle. Or I can send it, all I'd ask is the £20 I paid for it is sent to my Paypal then I can give it back to you once I receive the castle nut back. Just in case you move to Australia/get imprisoned for beating up a bus driver and things like that. Not that I don't trust you :)
Bibio, are you still doing those shims for the rear swing arm?
yes but they dont fit the thou.
btw you can adjust headstock bearings by 'feel' and i have seen a few being notched due to people using a torque wrench. not so much with taper needle.
if the races have been seated prior then all you need to do is tighten the bottom locknut while turning the front end from side to side till you feel a resistance. this lets the grease get squeezed out so the balls and races are in contact with grease around them. you then back off 1/8-1/4 turn and tighten the next locknut taking care not to move the bottom lock nut, you then install the top yoke and tighten the top nut. with the pressure bearing down from the upper lock nut and top yoke nut it should give no play when giving the forks a good push pull at the bottom.
I know the lower one can be done by feel, but I noticed anything less than circa 40Nm just had the bars idly flopping side to side, so I dare say "feel" is probably going to end up having the nut around 40Nm whether people know it or not. Just my thoughts on it!
Out of interest, is the thousand swing arm susceptible to play like the 650?
never played with a thou but i do know the bearings are different sizes. they are the same type of setup though just bigger id/od so might have the slop. you have one so check :-)
Jayneflakes
28-06-17, 02:07 AM
no website as i only sell my stuff on here.
the kit includes:
laser cut stainless steel disc with magnets that attaches to the rear sprocket bolts.
stainless steel swingarm marker plates with a drop bracket for the sensor.
custom sensor with full end to end cable (i had these specially made up) with OEM connector for the loom.
unlike traditional speedo drive installs that run off the front disc mines runs off the rear sprocket.
PM me if you want more details and prices.
This kit is fabulous and beautifully made. It is super easy to fit and works perfectly. I have one fitted and it has never failed. :D
...probably...should...not...criticize... if you... write... every...thing like...this....................................... .................................................. .................................................. ....................... ...
I like your posts. But what is the obsession with ellipses? :confused:
...at least my tits are not too big... .!.:D.!.
...and another thing........:smt033...
...but please carry on...this entire thread has been an epiphany for me...:smt119
...my new desk top...
...I promised not to hold your boobs against you...your bike is my new inspiration...
...I would very much like to know more aboot those sliders, like where I can get some today...
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/chickenpot/SVthou/IMAG1459_zpsmtmcctld.jpg
Blapper
28-06-17, 04:02 PM
Funny thread!
650: SWEEEET bike!
Oh sorry, forgot to reply to that question. They're R&G and come with that bracket you see on the frame. I have to admit they're marginally annoying in that your shin hits them from time to time (if you've got long legs like me) which can be a bit painful! The bike's not been down (touch wood) but I assume they'd take the brunt, I'm thinking of getting carbon corner covers for the tank as I imagine that would get dented if the bike pivoted on the sliders.
Funny thread!
650: SWEEEET bike!
Thanks dude. Minor niggles to iron out this weekend then happy days!
Oh sorry, forgot to reply to that question. They're R&G and come with that bracket you see on the frame. I have to admit they're marginally annoying in that your shin hits them from time to time (if you've got long legs like me) which can be a bit painful! The bike's not been down (touch wood) but I assume they'd take the brunt, I'm thinking of getting carbon corner covers for the tank as I imagine that would get dented if the bike pivoted on the sliders.
...fuk the bike...the sliders are to help keep the thing from grabbing you by the leg and tangling up with you when you lowside the bike in a crash...
...I ALWAYS wear moto cross knee guard under me pants when I ride, not to mention proper riding boots, so I don't mind banging me shins around a bit...
...I am assuming you do wear pants when you ride, of course...
Only on cold days mate, only on cold days
Photobucket went tits up so I've put the images on Flickr, for those interested.
Any requirement for a how-to guide for the front end conversion? I don't mind typing one up.
DougieG
29-06-17, 08:31 AM
Photobucket went tits up so I've put the images on Flickr, for those interested.
Any requirement for a how-to guide for the front end conversion? I don't mind typing one up.
Whats the link for the pics and a write up would be great
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Photobucket went tits up so I've put the images on Flickr, for those interested.
Any requirement for a how-to guide for the front end conversion? I don't mind typing one up.
...funny you should say that...(grin)
...I noticed that too...I don't even open that site anymore...
...as I am an avid reader, and ignorant of any mechanical knowledge, I too would greatly appreciate a write up...
...you seem especially coherent n ****...
Whats the link for the pics and a write up would be great
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Not done a write up yet matey, I'll knock it together tonight if I get time
DougieG
29-06-17, 11:00 AM
Not done a write up yet matey, I'll knock it together tonight if I get time
[emoji106]
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Yes a write up would be nice, I was tempted by a gixxer conversion but was worried about cost
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Yes a write up would be nice, I was tempted by a gixxer conversion but was worried about cost
Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
there are two reasons to fit a gsxr front end. 1, tart/posing purpose. 2, performance purpose. i cant understand why the OP swapped out a perfectly good cartridge internal front end for another cartridge internal front end but hey each to their own and all that.
if its not for aesthetics and you truly want better suspension/brakes than the SV650 has to offer then the most cost effective way of doing this is a RWU front end from the gsxr 600 K1-3 or the SV1000 front end due to everybody wanting USD conversions.
if you want 80-90% the performance of a cartridge internal front end but without the easy tweaking of the settings (clickers) then modifying the standard sv650 fork internals is more cost effective.
USD front end conversions are around £700 while RWU is £400 with the hardest part being getting a hold of a decent condition front wheel. you can make back some of the outlay by selling your old front end for £150-200. this puts a RWU conversion around the same price as a modified SV650 front end.
I paid £500 all in for my GSXR front end, sold the front wheel and discs for £240. Bearings and races...£15ish...headlight brackets...£25....top yoke...£140.
Really hasn't cost me much.
But yeah, looks first - just think the RWU forks let the thou down, a lot. Plus the brakes, not that there was anything wrong with my circa 8000 mile axials, but once I've got the correct master cylinder for this setup, it'll stop a LOT better.
The springs in the GSXR are 0.85....I'm 80kg in gear approx, so it works out perfect for me. Handles lovely, looks the nuts and will stop more sharply.
sv thou is a lot cheeper to do than the 650. all you need for the thou is forks, callipers, mudguard and yokes for usd as the wheel, discs, axle all fit the gsxr. plus thou has speedo driven off front sprocket so no need for speedo drive conversion.
the thou callipers is serviced properly will stop the 650 very sharpish due to the weight difference.
The 650 wheel fits as well, doesn't it? You just need the spindle. I believe all 01+ GSXR wheels will fit, with the axle's being different from 08 on.
Forgotten if I asked you by the way (and I appreciate piston size differences) what size is the MC on yours?
no 650 wheel doesn't fit, its only the 'diamond spoke' gsxr that fit which is same as sv thou.
i use bandit 1250s MC as its naked 'square' type, works just fine with radials. i had a gsxr radial MC on at one point and tbh there is not much difference. i like 'feel' to my brakes so the more i squeeze the more it brakes rather than all out 'bite'. i hate bikes that have brakes that feel like an on off switch, but on the other side i also hate bikes that have brakes that you end up screaming stooooooppppppp.
That's all dictated by the ratio of MC to caliper piston surface area. I think your piston sizes are 30/32 on the caliper, I'm guessing the master cylinder size is 16mm?
dont have the foggiest what size the MC or pistons are. all i know is i like the feel of the setup. might be a bit useless for racing but on the road its lovely.
a lot of people seem to think that race setup is best when nothing could be further from the truth for road use. race setups need a lot of heat to keep working at their best or they will glaze up and cause fade and turn the brakes wooden.
Did my research and it's 14mm, same as the standard GSXR MC
Bit of an update on this, I ended up buying the Bandit MC and it's done the trick. I know the calipers are still capable of more but I can't justify a brand new RCS19 right now.
Otherwise, I had some issues with low speed weave. After a lot of research, the consensus is that tapered bearings require zero preload, almost erring on the edge of loose rather than any form of tight. I've backed off the steering nut a lot and it's helped - just need to fine tune it.
I had a dent in one of the exhausts from a close call side swipe on a roundabout, I've swapped over the cans but didn't like the plain silver finish, so I've wrapped both in carbon effect vinyl (which is fine, the heat's not an issue) and put some cheeky Fiat Abarth scorpion stickers on there. I also removed the belly pan stickers as I ended up not liking the look.
Next up, the forks will go off to Maxton for a complete revalve and I'll buy a Maxton shock with matching spring rate etc. Beyond that, I think I'm content with it now. Although I might get an Mt03 headlight and a smaller gauge, but I'd like to retain the dealer error code function, so I might hire a regarded bike sparky to do the install and make it so I can switch back to the stock ones easily - won't cost much. Here's how she's standing
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4306/35383288474_975a88ccd8_o.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4305/36052024842_dc0eb9ffa1_o.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4295/36218046905_92328a2b64_o.jpg
Did you say you were going to write a fork swap guide?
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At some point, things have been a bit bonkers recently and I'd like to do it with a lot of photos etc. So I'll probably make a start on it at some point in August
...it's AUGUST, mutherfukah...!!!...\\:D/
haha! You're not wrong, this month is gonna be hectic but I'll see what I can do. In all honesty, it's just the following:
Remove existing front end
Tap out existing races
Tap in new races
Remove existing bearings (if there) from the GSXR stem
Tap down new bearings onto stem
Put stem into headstock
Put top bearing in place
Tighten steering nut to required torque (if tapered, zero preload - as in finger tight) if roller bearings - 40Nm then back off quarter to half a turn
Tighten steering stem lock nut (80Nm)
Put top yoke in place
Tighten top yoke lock but (90Nm)
Slide forks in, put wheel on. Etc
There's obviously a bit more to it - like adding handlebars etc, but as there's so many factors there (bar height, type, throttle and brake cable lengths etc) there's not much sense in me covering every possible scenario - a bit of logic from the user is required, and/or some direct questions on forums.
if the bearings are fine on the SV you dont need to put new bearings in. the pointy is a straight swap, the curvy needs a special top bearing.
regarding tightening the stem lock nuts, you only need to use the first specified torque setting if putting new bearings in, if using old bearings you tighten the lock nut down till you feel resistance then back off 1/4 turn (a bit like adjusting the clutch mech push rod). install washer then tighten the top lock nut to torque without moving the bottom one. you then check free movement/play and adjust as necessary.
if you dont have a torque wrench then just tighten the top lock nut but dont go mad. i would strongly recommend that you buy the proper lock nut socket.
I've got the castle nut :)
I definitely needed new bearings on mine. The SV races had pitting (as most will I guess - given the youngest of these bikes is, what...ten years old?) so on went some tapered bearings. Torquing and setting up as per the manual (for either the SV or the GSXR) revealed front end weave below 30mph. Backing it off completely until the stem started dropping, then holding in place by hand and tightening to finger tight got rid of that, while retaining the right feel with side to side movement of the bars.
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